Goat debate

It's not funny anymore. I try to debate who is goat but I get LeBron over Jordan cause stats. But I bring up harden and westbrook and somehow stats don't count. All fans need to get their sheet strait. It is silly.

Because you need a combo of stats/winning/individual accolades to be in the GOAT debate

Harden and Westbrook have 0 rings and only 1 MVP each so not close to being GOAT worthy

[QUOTE=Manny98]Because you need a combo of stats/[B]winning[/B]/individual accolades to be in the GOAT debate

Harden and Westbrook have 0 rings and only 1 MVP each so not close to being GOAT worthy[/QUOTE]

What if you need two superstar collusions AND two miracle shots AND a crucial suspension to win 3 rings in the weak east and miss the POs as soon as you head west?

Does this automatically dismiss you from any GOAT debate?

i dont think statistically they are top 25 in the playoffs?

or what point were you making, OP?

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]i dont think statistically they are top 25 in the playoffs?

or what point were you making, OP?[/QUOTE]

You feed into the same thing. No point but it's annoying.

[QUOTE=Manny98]Because you need a combo of stats/winning/individual accolades to be in the GOAT debate

Harden and Westbrook have 0 rings and only 1 MVP each so not close to being GOAT worthy[/QUOTE]

Fair enough but how do weigh those measurements

[QUOTE=nayte]It's not funny anymore. I try to debate who is goat but I get LeBron over Jordan cause stats. But I bring up harden and westbrook and somehow stats don't count. All fans need to get their sheet strait. It is silly.[/QUOTE]
It's really hard to have honest debates on goat, too many different criteria sets. And within that too many people unwilling to hold consistent criteria to their list. ie:

stats count when you compare Mj to Kareem/Russell, but not when comapring Lebron to Mj/Kobe etc.

Rings not counting for Russell vs. Mj but counting for Mj vs everyone else

Having Shaq be held against Kobe, but have Kareem as goat and Magic in the top 5.

Count dominance yet disrespect a guy like Wilt.

I could go on and on. If you have a goat list all the logic should work for every slot

[QUOTE=Manny98]Because you need a combo of stats/winning/individual accolades to be in the GOAT debate [/QUOTE]

Lebron has none of those.

[QUOTE=bullettooth]Lebron has none of those.[/QUOTE]
3 rings ,3 FMVPs, 4 MVPs ,most NBA 1st teams,GOAT stats in regular season and postseason, KYS

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]It's really hard to have honest debates on goat, too many different criteria sets. And within that too many people unwilling to hold consistent criteria to their list. ie:

stats count when you compare Mj to Kareem/Russell, but not when comapring Lebron to Mj/Kobe etc.

Rings not counting for Russell vs. Mj but counting for Mj vs everyone else

Having Shaq be held against Kobe, but have Kareem as goat and Magic in the top 5.

Count dominance yet disrespect a guy like Wilt.

I could go on and on. If you have a goat list all the logic should work for every slot[/QUOTE]

I think you have a point, that mostly people are almost randomly ranking guys they've heard should be at the top and have no real standards.

But I think you are also a little confused about the arguments, especially regarding Jordan and also the post peak Kareem vs peak Shaq analogy.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]It's really hard to have honest debates on goat, too many different criteria sets. And within that too many people unwilling to hold consistent criteria to their list. ie:

stats count when you compare Mj to Kareem/Russell, but not when comapring Lebron to Mj/Kobe etc.

Rings not counting for Russell vs. Mj but counting for Mj vs everyone else

Having Shaq be held against Kobe, but have Kareem as goat and Magic in the top 5.

Count dominance yet disrespect a guy like Wilt.

I could go on and on. If you have a goat list all the logic should work for every slot[/QUOTE]

The GOAT argument will never been without agendas or personal preferences. I don't have a GOAT, I tend to go by tiers.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]It's really hard to have honest debates on goat, too many different criteria sets. And within that too many people unwilling to hold consistent criteria to their list. ie:

stats count when you compare Mj to Kareem/Russell, but not when comapring Lebron to Mj/Kobe etc.

Rings not counting for Russell vs. Mj but counting for Mj vs everyone else

Having Shaq be held against Kobe, but have Kareem as goat and Magic in the top 5.

Count dominance yet disrespect a guy like Wilt.

I could go on and on. If you have a goat list all the logic should work for every slot[/QUOTE]


If we were all to be totally objective, we'd put the legitimate GOAT candidates on tier 1 and then give our individual reasons why one of them should be called GOAT.


Russell
Wilt
Lebron
Jordan
Kareem
Magic

I say Jordan because I think he had to best combination of winning, stats and accolades taking into account teammates and era. But that's my opinion. You can make a case for all six of those guys.

[QUOTE=Phoenix]The GOAT argument will never been without agendas or personal preferences. I don't have a GOAT, I tend to go by tiers.[/QUOTE]

It is definitely going to come down to personal preference, but most people are agenda free. I think the biggest issue with current rankings is that some people are just too focused on recent years and tend to vastly overrate the current best players.

[QUOTE=Marchesk]If we were all to be totally objective, we'd put the legitimate GOAT candidates on tier 1 and then give our individual reasons why one of them should be called GOAT.


Russell
Wilt
Lebron
Jordan
Kareem
Magic

I say Jordan because I think he had to best combination of winning, stats and accolades taking into account teammates and era. But that's my opinion. You can make a case for all six of those guys.[/QUOTE]

You can't make a case for all these guys as the GOAT. And leaving Bird out of this tier is beyond ignorant.

[QUOTE='Toine=MVP]You can't make a case for all these guys as the GOAT. And leaving Bird out of this tier is beyond ignorant.[/QUOTE]

Yes you can. But if you want to say Bird is on the same level as Magic, then fine. But if you bring Bird in, then you also have Duncan, Shaq and Kobe.

So okay, drop Magic from the list.

Bill Russell = most winning
Wilt = best stats, most dominant
Kareem = best longevity, 6 MVPs
Jordan = best scoring, never lost a finals
Lebron = best carrying a team

All of those guys have multiple titles, rings, MVPs, dominating stats (Russell would be rebounding and shot blocking if it was tracked), and have been called the GOAT by plenty of people throughout time.

Magic and Bird were hurt by having their careers shortened.