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And keep in mind that the great Scottie Pippen averaged 20 points all throughout the 90s.
That means that, according to Jordan's main rival at the shooting guard position in the 90s, Pippen was dominant, and then dominant 3 more times [U]on top[/U] of that dominance on an average night. :eek: :applause:
[video=youtube_share;3yif1LTsPms]https://youtu.be/3yif1LTsPms[/video]
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Stans should really stop using players and coaches quotes for your agendas.
Makes you guys look like imbeciles.
So MJ is supposed to win without a 2nd scoring option?
I could understand if Pippen was 5th option and defensive specialist, but he's supposed to be 2nd option.
So his scoring and efficiency levels were often UNACCEPTABLE, which is why MJ needed goat production rate to win (ppg, PER, BPM and WS/48)
Michael Cooper
Tree Rollins
[QUOTE=3ba11;14487195]So MJ is supposed to win without a 2nd scoring option?
I could understand if Pippen was 5th option and defensive specialist, but he's supposed to be 2nd option.
So his scoring and efficiency levels were often UNACCEPTABLE, which is why MJ needed goat production rate to win (ppg, PER, BPM and WS/48)[/QUOTE]
He had Orlando Woolridge in 1985, Gervin and Woolridge in 1986 and Charles Oakley 1987. He also had, by 3ball's own admission, the Goat Larry Hughes in 2003 and 2004.
I'd add FMVP vote snatcher Dennis Rodman
[QUOTE=Reggie43;14487137][video=youtube_share;3yif1LTsPms]https://youtu.be/3yif1LTsPms[/video]
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This!
[QUOTE=TheCorporation;14487612]He had Orlando Woolridge in 1985, Gervin and Woolridge in 1986 and Charles Oakley 1987. He also had, by 3ball's own admission, the Goat Larry Hughes in 2003 and 2004.[/QUOTE]
Lebron had Carlos Boozer, Big Z, Tim Duncan, Allen Iverson, Shaq, Ben Wallace and still got bronze medal and never got to the finals.
[QUOTE=Reggie43;14487137][video=youtube_share;3yif1LTsPms]https://youtu.be/3yif1LTsPms[/video]
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/thread
[QUOTE=kawhileonard2;14487617]Lebron had Carlos Boozer, Big Z, Tim Duncan, Allen Iverson, Shaq, Ben Wallace and still got bronze medal and never got to the finals.[/QUOTE]
:lebroncry::lebroncry::lebroncry:
[QUOTE=Reggie43;14487137][video=youtube_share;3yif1LTsPms]https://youtu.be/3yif1LTsPms[/video]
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At some point in everyone's career, they had equal-scoring teammates to attract equal defensive attention for various playoff runs, and therefore weren't facing maximum defensive attention - any period without max defensive attention are inflated stats compared to Jordan, who faced max defensive attention for his entire career by carrying the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run..
So Jordan's stats are the baseline to which everyone is compared because his stats are the only stats that reflect max defensive attention for an entire career, aka no periods without facing max defensive attention (no inflation).
[QUOTE=3ba11;14487195]So MJ is supposed to win without a 2nd scoring option?
I could understand if Pippen was 5th option and defensive specialist, but he's supposed to be 2nd option.
So his scoring and efficiency levels were often UNACCEPTABLE, which is why MJ needed goat production rate to win (ppg, PER, BPM and WS/48)[/QUOTE]
I wonder when you'll realize that advocating for MJ having a better 2nd scoring option('more help') would have reduced his own production and made his path to winning titles easier. That's literally the antithesis of the arguing points you make every day for why you consider MJ the GOAT.
[QUOTE=Phoenix;14487730]I wonder when you'll realize that advocating for MJ having a better 2nd scoring option('more help') would have reduced his own production and made his path to winning titles easier. That's literally the antithesis of the arguing points you make every day for why you consider MJ the GOAT.[/QUOTE]
At some point in everyone's career, they had equal-scoring teammates to attract equal defensive attention for various playoff runs, and therefore weren't facing maximum defensive attention - any period without max defensive attention are inflated stats compared to Jordan, who faced max defensive attention for his entire career by carrying the scoring load in every SERIES, let alone playoff run..
So Jordan's stats are the baseline to which everyone is compared because his stats are the only stats that reflect max defensive attention for an entire career, aka no periods without facing max defensive attention (no inflation).
[QUOTE=Phoenix;14487730]I wonder when you'll realize that advocating for MJ having a better 2nd scoring option('more help') would have reduced his own production and made his path to winning titles easier. That's literally the antithesis of the arguing points you make every day for why you consider MJ the GOAT.[/QUOTE]
If MJ had more help (the kind of help that everyone else gets, aka sidekicks capable of being equal-scoring partners for various playoff runs, aka elite-producing sidekicks, not draymond-type at sidekick), then he would've won titles from 85-99', aside from a couple breaks in between because we know MJ gets bored of dominating.. He needs action (a chance he will lose)
Furthermore, everyone says that Lebron had bad stats in the 07' Finals because he had no help and the opponents' defense was focused solely on him - well Jordan faced that for an entire career - aka max defensive attention because he lacked an equal-scoring partner to attract equal defensive attention like everyone else in history had... Only Jordan faced max defensive attention for his entire career, which DEFLATES his stats compared to everyone else.
[QUOTE=3ba11;14487731]If MJ had more help (the kind of help that everyone else gets, aka sidekicks capable of being equal-scoring partners for various playoff runs, aka elite-producing sidekicks, not draymond-type at sidekick), then [B]he would've won titles from 85-99[/B]', aside from a couple breaks in between because we know MJ gets bored of dominating.. He needs action (a chance he will lose)[/QUOTE]
No he wouldn't have. Because you speak of the 2 star format( which was a byproduct of expansion). If you gave MJ a better 2nd scorer in the 80s he's still likely coming up short, because all the championship teams were stacked with multiple hall of famers and scorers. In order for MJ to start winning a title from 85( as a rookie), he would have had to also pair with other hall of fame level talent to beat the Lakers and Celtics. If that happens, that means his own statistical output is reduced. Does that help or hinder his GOAT case?
He won 6 titles between 91-98, in every full season he played. But advocating for him to having better scoring help, you're saying the path for him winning titles would have been easier. Does that help or hinder his GOAT case?