How is Allen Iverson More Selfish Than Kobe?

Every mention of Iverson is that he needs a team with players who don't have score first mentalities but instead are role players

But for Kobe there's no certain teammates he needs and he can succeed with score 1st players like Pau & Bynum.

Maybe I don't focus enough on Kobe as many of the Laker goofs do but Kobe plays more selfishly than Allen Iverson when it comes to forcing shots and taking contested shots.

People think that because Iverson went to the Finals with a bunch of role players then it means that Iverson can't win without role players and I don't believe that.

Then when LeBron is mentioned its said he needs another scorer yet he went to the NBA Finals with a cast of role players.:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[quote]Kobe plays more selfishly than Allen Iverson when it comes to forcing shots and taking contested shots.[/quote]

I'd argue that unlike AI, Kobe has a better chance of making those shots. How many 3's does AI throw up even though he's not very effective out there? He throws up a lot more prayers than Kobe.

Iverson dominates the ball a lot more than Kobe. Also, AI doesnt trust his teammates thats why he keeps jacking up shots. Unlike Kobe. And Kobe's a much better shooter.

Wouldn't say Kobe trusts his teammates that much.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]Wouldn't say Kobe trusts his teammates that much.[/QUOTE]

AI doesnt make his teammates better compared to Kobe.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]Wouldn't say Kobe trusts his teammates that much.[/QUOTE]
If you think Kobe doesn't trust his teammates that much, you clearly didn't watch the Lakers play last season...probably basing your statement on what you hear from others.

he doesn't like sharing his skittles

Kobe Bryant barely took as many shots in the first quater of many games this season to get his teammates involved early, and if that's not unselfish I don't know what is.

What did Iverson do to help his teammates this season? take Carmelo out to a club and let his girl lap dance all over Melo?

[QUOTE]
Maybe I don't focus enough on Kobe as many of the Laker goofs do but Kobe plays more selfishly than Allen Iverson when it comes to forcing shots and taking contested shots.[/QUOTE]


Right and how many shots did Iverson take in the First round of 2008 playoffs?

[QUOTE=Interminator]Every mention of Iverson is that he needs a team with players who don't have score first mentalities but instead are role players

But for Kobe there's no certain teammates he needs and he can succeed with score 1st players like Pau & Bynum.

Maybe I don't focus enough on Kobe as many of the Laker goofs do but Kobe plays more selfishly than Allen Iverson when it comes to forcing shots and taking contested shots.

People think that because Iverson went to the Finals with a bunch of role players then it means that Iverson can't win without role players and I don't believe that.

Then when LeBron is mentioned its said he needs another scorer yet he went to the NBA Finals with a cast of role players.:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]


I dont think most of us on ISH believes Iverson to be selfish.

Well, generally, most undersized shoot-first, ball dominating guards are bad news for team success because that's not a good formula for winning basketball. But Iverson's heart, determination and will somehow allows him to break the mold... to a certain extent. He's more valuable than a Arenas or a Marbury because of that.

But the fact sitll remains his game is nearly impossible to build around.

Kobe is definitely more "selfish" than Iverson. But Kobe's game doesn't require him to dominate the ball as much. Kobe has a post game--which can result in doubles and him kicking it out to open shooter. Because of Kobe's superior physical gifts (mainly height), he is allowed to be a more efficient player and do things Iverson can never do. That's just fact. It's unfair, because if Iverson was taller, then perhaps he too, can change his game to be more efficient. But he's not taller he will never develope the efficiency that taller wing players--if playing the game wisely--can develop in their games.

[QUOTE=EricForman]I dont think most of us on ISH believes Iverson to be selfish.

Well, generally, most undersized shoot-first, ball dominating guards are bad news for team success because that's not a good formula for winning basketball. But Iverson's heart, determination and will somehow allows him to break the mold... to a certain extent. He's more valuable than a Arenas or a Marbury because of that.

But the fact sitll remains his game is nearly impossible to build around.

Kobe is definitely more "selfish" than Iverson. But Kobe's game doesn't require him to dominant the ball as much. Kobe has a post game--which can result in doubles and him kicking it out to open shooter. Because of Kobe's superior skills and height, it allows him to be a more efficient player and do things Iverson can never do. That's just fact. It's unfair, because if Iverson was taller, then perhaps he too, can change his game to be more efficient. But he's not taller he will never develope the efficiency that taller wing players--if playing the game wisely--can develop in their games.[/QUOTE]

AI is my favorite player ever and I completely agree with this post.

well kobe has times has the tendensy to be too unselfish and causing his team to trail.

[quote]AI doesnt make his teammates better compared to Kobe.[/quote]

Not a Kobe strong suit either.

[quote]If you think Kobe doesn't trust his teammates that much, you clearly didn't watch the Lakers play last season[/quote]

I lived in China. He was probably on more than Yao and Yi. He was better last year but I'd hardly call him a team player. Be interesting to see him try that game on in Europe that's for sure.

[quote]He's more valuable than a Arenas or a Marbury because of that.[/quote]

Think Arenas could be a lot more valuable for the Wizards if he gets healthy again. They were one shot from beating the Cavs in the playoffs three years ago and were having an even better year two years ago before he and Caron went down. Their offense and the other ball handlers around him fits his game too.

[quote]kobe has times has the tendensy to be too unselfish [/quote]

When pre-season? Lakers would have won at least 4 straight titles if not for his selfish play.

[QUOTE]When pre-season? Lakers would have won at least 4 straight titles if not for his selfish play.[/QUOTE]

I disagree with this part. Lakers lost to the better team in 03...which was defintely the spurs. Can't just blame Kobe for that series.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]When pre-season? Lakers would have won at least 4 straight titles if not for his selfish play.[/QUOTE]
Its better to not say anything if you don't know what you're talking about :D You're one of those posters, probably watched Kobe in the finals this year and made up your mind about how selfish he was all season :oldlol:

[quote]I disagree with this part. Lakers lost to the better team in 03...which was defintely the spurs. Can't just blame Kobe for that series.[/quote]

I'm talking against the Pistons who weren't the better team. Instead of getting the ball to Shaq and winning like they should have he gunned. As if that wasn't enough he demanded they get rid of Shaq so they could go to the lottery and first round playoff losses so he could get scoring records.

[quote]You're one of those posters, probably watched Kobe in the finals this year and made up your mind about how selfish he was all season [/quote]

I made up my mind against the Pistons and everything he has done since.

[QUOTE] if that wasn't enough he demanded they get rid of Shaq so they could go to the[B] lottery and first round playoff losses so he could get scoring records[/B].[/QUOTE]

Really? Because I thought it was Shaq that demanded a trade from the Lakers...I am not going to entertain this little fiasco.

Its pretty obvious where the agenda is.

Kobe demanded that Shaq go from what I know. Where's the agenda? That Kobe doesn't live up to the hype?

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]Kobe demanded that Shaq go from what I know. Where's the agenda? That Kobe doesn't live up to the hype?[/QUOTE]

well that is what everyone assumes, and it definitely has some basis. but when the laker insider said the same thing, kobe sorta quite pretty upset last year.

Upset like when they didn't trade Bynum for Kidd or Jermaine O'Neal. LMAO!

Iverson is not more selfish than kobe... it just appears that way because he has not learned that dribbling is not a stat.

i don't consider either of them selfish, they both can and do take over games but that's what they are paid for, they are elite level players who are better than most the players on the court on any given night, they should be taking those shots they should be dictating the game... it keeps the defenses honest, it keeps them afraid... if kobe or AI only took shots when they were wide open then they'd be real easy to contain, it's because they take difficult shots and make them when others pass up those types of shots that makes them elite, it makes them dangerous...
as tex winter said when asked about kobe's shot selection (i'll paraphrase) his shot selection is fine because he makes those shots, what is a bad shot for most players is an OK shot for kobe.

last year kobe only shot no quite 1 times more per game but AI had 2 more assists per game, so that tells us he's just touching the ball more... he does spend more time dribbling around then kobe, but that's his style, poke and attack..kobe is more of an off the ball get into position to attack then get the ball and strike, alot of that is because the triangle is a passing system, you can move the ball aroud faster by passing

otherwise they are fairly close in ther numbers, kobe's better in some areas, iverson is better in others...

two different games by two very different players in very different systems with similar outcomes...

[quote]i don't consider either of them selfish, they both can and do take over games but that's what they are paid for, they are elite level players who are better than most the players on the court on any given night, they should be taking those shots they should be dictating the game... it keeps the defenses honest, it keeps them afraid... if kobe or AI only took shots when they were wide open then they'd be real easy to contain, it's because they take difficult shots and make them when others pass up those types of shots that makes them elite, it makes them dangerous...
as tex winter said when asked about kobe's shot selection (i'll paraphrase) his shot selection is fine because he makes those shots, what is a bad shot for most players is an OK shot for kobe.[/quote]

Take a look at AI's shooting %'s especially from 2 and 3 and tell me he should he should be throwing up prayers. Lebron led the league in scoring last year but unlike Kobe and AI he's as unselfish as they come.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]Take a look at AI's shooting %'s especially from 2 and 3 and tell me he should he should be throwing up prayers. Lebron led the league in scoring last year but unlike Kobe and AI he's as unselfish as they come.[/QUOTE]lebron shoots more than kobe and AI.. and he's worse from behind the arc

besides the thread is kobe and ai not kobe, lebron and ai

[QUOTE=gts]lebron shoots more than kobe and AI.. and he's worse from behind the arc

besides the thread is kobe and ai not kobe, lebron and ai[/QUOTE]

the amount of shots taken does not determine how selfish one is.

[quote]lebron shoots more than kobe and AI.. and he's worse from behind the arc
[/quote]

Only shot shot under 30% once as a rookie. Kobe and AI both have on more than one occasion. When you shoot 47 to 48% and can get to the hole at will you should be shooting.

[QUOTE=EricForman]the amount of shots taken does not determine how selfish one is.[/QUOTE]i never said it did, if you go back and read my post you'll notice that i said neither one of them is selfish, that they should be shooting the ball because that's what they get paid for, that's what is expected of them from the coaching staff

[QUOTE=EricForman]I dont think most of us on ISH believes Iverson to be selfish.

Well, generally, most undersized shoot-first, ball dominating guards are bad news for team success because that's not a good formula for winning basketball. But Iverson's heart, determination and will somehow allows him to break the mold... to a certain extent. He's more valuable than a Arenas or a Marbury because of that.

But the fact sitll remains his game is nearly impossible to build around.

Kobe is definitely more "selfish" than Iverson. But Kobe's game doesn't require him to dominate the ball as much. Kobe has a post game--which can result in doubles and him kicking it out to open shooter. Because of Kobe's superior physical gifts (mainly height), he is allowed to be a more efficient player and do things Iverson can never do. That's just fact. It's unfair, because if Iverson was taller, then perhaps he too, can change his game to be more efficient. But he's not taller he will never develope the efficiency that taller wing players--if playing the game wisely--can develop in their games.[/QUOTE]

This.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]Take a look at AI's shooting %'s especially from 2 and 3 and tell me he should he should be throwing up prayers. Lebron led the league in scoring last year but unlike Kobe and AI he's as unselfish as they come.[/QUOTE]

Whats your point?
AI would have led the league in scoring this year if he didnt have Melo on his team.
Last year
AI's 3point%>LeBron's 3 point%
LeBron's 2point %>AI's 2 point%

i disagree. I think both of them are equally selfish :rockon:

Honestly I think they are equally selfish, but that Allen Iverson comes off worse because he has a tendency to over-dribble the ball. Also, Kobe Bryant has shown he can play unselfishly when needed (LA's 3-peat, last year), while Allen Iverson has shown stretches but has not done it consistently.

AI just looks more selfish bec he brings the ball a lot in denver and all of his shots come from dribble penetration and looks for his shot by himself while kobe usually gets the ball already in scoring position and closer to the basket

AI is a Selfish SOB. he has carmelo anthony the best young scorer in the league and still plays like a selfish SOB.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]Kobe demanded that Shaq go from what I know. Where's the agenda? That Kobe doesn't live up to the hype?[/QUOTE]

Kobe doesn't live up to the Hype, he just got an MVP award what more do you want? A championship? Stay tuned.

I think Allen Iverson is just used to [B]HAVING[/B] to be the ONLY offensive force on a team, and having the ball run through him, as oppose to having a few options, like 'Melo, dishing down low to K-mart, or j.r. smith...

Kobe just likes to score I think...why in the hell else would he put up 81 points in one game? instead of like trying for 25 assists or something lol

[QUOTE=ronnymac]AI is a Selfish SOB. he has carmelo anthony the best young scorer in the league and still plays like a selfish SOB.[/QUOTE]

Funny how Melo still averages the same number of points as AI

Really the only difference is that Kobe Bryant has proven he can be the number 1 or 2 scoring threat on a team and have that team still be very successful (LA 3-peat, last year). Allen Iverson has proven he can put up a lot of points but he really hasn't won much other than the year he took Philly to the Finals.

After Kobe scored 81,

AI said "I'm going for 100"

:violin:

I look at the results at the end of the day....Kobe is way better then AI....
The guy who made this thread needs to watch more kobe games before making this thread...he says he hasnt watched kobe a lot..how the hell he can make the comparisons then?

[quote]he just got an MVP award[/quote]

Because of the hype. He didn't deserve it. Had the best talent and coach in the league around him.

[quote] what more do you want? A championship?[/quote]

That would be a start if you're going to keep calling him hands down the best player on the planet(LMAO!) or comparing him with MJ.

[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]Because of the hype. He didn't deserve it. Had the best talent and coach in the league around him.[/QUOTE]

AI had Carmelo, Camby and still couldnt get out of 1st round....what are u talking about


[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You]That would be a start if you're going to keep calling him hands down the best player on the planet(LMAO!) or comparing him with MJ.[/QUOTE]

Dont argue for the sake of arguing....