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Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
at 7'3 and 290 pounds he was leader of the Amazing USSR squad of the 1980's, this force came to prominence when he led the USSR to a world championship win in 1982, then he absolutely DOMINATED David Robinson in both the 1986 World Championships and in the 1988 Olympics, leading the Soviets to Gold medals in the Olympic Games. He was considered the best Big Man in the world in the 80's..including players in the NBA
Here is a video of Sabonis treating Robinson and the US team like plebians in the World Championship in 1986..
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ[/url]
That 1988 USA Olympics team featured a 23 year old David Robinson (Sabonis was 24), Danny Manning, Dan Majerle, and Mitch Richmond amongst others. There loss prompted the USA to go with the dream team in 92..and by then the Soviets had dissolved and Arvydas joined Lithuania.
Unfortunately injury would always plague Arvydas who already ruptured two achilles tendons by the mid 80's. Including a devastating one in 1985, and he was never the same, not even during his torching of Robinson and USA in 86...
He is considered the greatest passing center of all time. Even Bill Walton says this. He was also a better three point shooter than Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan and Allen Iverson. When he came into the NBA he shot 37% from behind the arc his first two seasons...while taking over 250 3 pointers. Jordan is a career 32% 3pt shooter, Kobe 33% and AI 31%.
Vid of him shooting threes ..unreal..
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fdlB8tX75Mc[/url]
Let's just dwell on that for a sec...7'3"..290 pounds.. better three point shooter than Jordan and Kobe...WOW... ..but he wasn't a EURO softy big man like Dirk..Arvydas in his younger days was a monster..with a couple of KO's during fights..and he took it to the rim with FORCE.
Here is a video of Sabonis Smashing the backboard with a ONE HAND dunk..Has that ever been done by anyone else?
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9AJ-Yclo4I[/url]
Because he lived under communist rule..Arvydas would not be allowed to enter the NBA during his prime. It wasn't a matter of not wanting to..he was even drafted by Portland in 1986...the Soviets wouldn't let him. He finally made his way over to the NBA at the age of 31, plagued with injuries and just a shell of his former self..yet he still put up AWESOME NUMBERS.
From the ages of 31-35 he had an average PER of 21.5. To put that in perspective lets compare that with the other NBA all time great centers and their PER's from ages 31-35. His NBA stats are on Par with the legends of the sport.
1. DRobinson 26.2
2. Kareem 24.6
3. Dream 24.0
4. Wilt 22.0
5.Ewing 22.0
[B]6. Sabonis[/B] 21.5
7.Moses Malone 20.9
8.B.Russell 17.0
Arvydas didn't slow down after that either...at the age of 38 ..he still put up 14pts and 10rbs per game. The next year at 39 he went back to Europe and was the euroleague player of the year!!
...............
Now listen, I'm not going to say Arvydas Sabonis would have or was the greatest center of all time. How great was he in the 80's all I can say is what I've heard from other people. I've only seen a game or two of his from this era. Definitly not enough evidence available for me to make a decision. But I think he has to be in the discussion.
What a shame we rarely got to see him at his best.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=big baller]:roll::roll::roll::roll::roll::roll:[/QUOTE]
what is so funny?
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
If Sabonis had been a couple years younger when he was with the 99-00 Blazers, he probably would have stopped Shaq from getting his first ring.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
I don't know about GOAT. but he [B][I]could[/I][/B] of been a top 10 center of all time.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
No matter how good he was no way he was at the peak of his powers EVER better than prime Shaq no one ever was and no one ever will be
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
sabonis was great while he did play in the NBA. shame we couldnt see him during his younger days.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=Jinxed]
Here is a video of Sabonis Smashing the backboard with a ONE HAND dunk..Has that ever been done by anyone else?
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a9AJ-Yclo4I[/url]
[/QUOTE]
Ummm... yes. In one of the most famous B-ball clips of all time.
Send it IN Jerome!
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhgQlaAUMo8[/url]
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
No, he wouldn't be the GOAT center or, even if he was in the mix, most people wouldn't pick him. Why?
1) He was a good, but not overpowering, Shaq-like scorer. Much like a guy like Bill Walton, he cared more about a good pass or a good screen than scoring 30 ppg. These non-PG players usually get wins, but don’t dominate in a way definite enough to get them to the GOAT discussions.
2) Even if he cared about scoring, I don't think he'd be successful for long, because that would require more energy from his part, increasing the risk of an injury. Sabonis might be a natural wonder from the waist on, but his feet were pretty Waltonian/Zidrunian.
3) Among all the greatest centers, Sabonis was, maybe tied with Moses Malone, the worst defender, and defense for his position is more important than in any other.
BTW, Jinxed, you’ve calculated PER wrong in some cases (you added them all and devided with the number of seasons). PER is a “per minute”, not a “per season” metric.
Also, you can't use PER to compare a 25-30 mpg player to players who averaged 38-40 (or even more) minutes
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
he certainly should be in the conversation. Its too bad that the US exposure was limited to smoking D Rob and his twilight after serious injury. Still one of my favorite players on the best incarnation of portland, the original jailblazers (pre miles, etc). that whole team went 10 deep and was insane. too bad, a better coach could have taken them all the way.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
Not a chance. Couldn't do anything going to his left.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
he was a formidable player and would have been up there in the top 5 ever... GOAT? probably not, but close to it. it is a shame he did not play in the NBA during his prime. Dude could pass like no other center!
:pimp:
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=Psileas]No, he wouldn't be the GOAT center or, even if he was in the mix, most people wouldn't pick him. Why?
1) He was a good, but not overpowering, Shaq-like scorer. Much like a guy like Bill Walton, he cared more about a good pass or a good screen than scoring 30 ppg. These non-PG players usually get wins, but don
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=Da KO King]Not a chance. Couldn't do anything going to his left.[/QUOTE]
Who do you consider the GOAT center?
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
Euroleague Final 1986
Sabonis Vs. Drazen ****ing awesome
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vUNlU7zFZ5Q[/url]
Tell me Sabonis isn't a dominate scorer after watching that..dudes slamming on people, hitting threes, fade away jump shots, blocking shots, getting steals and throwing no look passes..and that's jst the first 9 minutes.. Unbelievable.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE]No he wasn't a dominate score in his 30's, way past his prime with shot knees and achilles, but neither was Wilt nor is Shaq now.
The question is, when he was young and healthy was he a dominate scorer in the Soviet League? I can't find his stats anywhere, but he did lead his team to three straight title, so I imagine he was pretty good.
Even in the 1992 Olympics when he played for Lithuania Sabas avg 24 pts and 13 Rbs per game. That's in 40 minute games. That's unbelievable.
In 1994-1995 while on Real Madrid Sabas averaged 22 pts and 13 rbs. Once again under Euro rules thats very impressive.[/QUOTE]
Sabonis was never a big-time scorer, even in his prime. Here are his stats:
[url]http://www.basketpedya.com/Acc002InfJug.php?idjug=1754&idioma=1[/url]
As you see, he averaged 20/11 in 1995 for Real, not 22/13. Actually, he only once got to 20+ ppg after 1990 and, mind you, this is still early/mid 90's European basketball, when it was possible for high scorers to average 30+ ppg, even at its strongest leagues. Getting 18-22 ppg for a good team was nice, but not something really rare and spectacular, as it would be today.
[QUOTE]How do you know how good a defender Sabonis was in 1984? When he was still young and agile...hell Arvydas led the Euroleague in blocks at age 39!![/QUOTE]
I've watched Sabonis a lot of times before coming to the NBA, since I'm European myself and from the games I saw, the kind of defense he played consisted mainly of just using his huge frame to cover space inside. At times he succeeded (depending on the competition), but he wasn't the intimidating defender that no-one would dare shoot over. Such a guy was Vrankovic or even Tkatchenko. Sabonis always seemed to care less about defense then them.
Leading the Euroleague in shot blocking is a nice little stat, but after the mid-90's, shot blocking numbers became so poor that they lost their meaning. It really isn't that important, because in Europe in the last decade there's much more to defense than blocked shots.
[QUOTE]Yes you can. That's the point of PER..that its per minute efficiency. That's one of the reasons Hollinger designed it.[/QUOTE]
For the exact fact that it's a per-minute stat comparing players with not comparable minutes of play you [B]can't [/B]do this, since it's unfair to compare the efficiency of a 40 mpg superstar to that of a 25 mpg past-prime player. No-one in their right mind will tell you that a player averaging 5 assists in 20 mpg is equal to a player averaging 10 assists in 40 mpg, although PER will tell you he is.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[B]An Early to Mid 80s Sabonis before his injuries was definetly a 5th Greatest Center of All Time. More than one person has claimed this and this happens to be people whom saw him in the 80s (even an Afro American friend of mine said he was better than Jabbar in the early 80s).
Wilt, Jabbar, Shaq, Hakeem and Sabonis are the Best Centers Ever.
At 6 Id put Robinson. [/B]
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
^^As much as you hate it (and I know you hate it), a list without Russell is incomplete. I'm pretty sure your Afro American friend will agree with this, as well.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
The most versatile offensively, but not the greatest. His shortcomings on D hold him back.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=Sir Charles][B]An Early to Mid 80s Sabonis before his injuries was definetly a 5th Greatest Center of All Time. More than one person has claimed this and this happens to be people whom saw him in the 80s (even an Afro American friend of mine said he was better than Jabbar in the early 80s).
Wilt, Jabbar, Shaq, Hakeem and Sabonis are the Best Centers Ever.
At 6 Id put Robinson. [/B][/QUOTE]
David Robinson is the most underrated Center in this message board. The Admiral was a former NBA Defensive Player of the Year, Regular Season MVP, NBA Scoring Champion, One of only 4 players in NBA history to accumulate a Quadruple Double Performance, and During his prime he also scored 71 points againts the Los Angeles Clippers.
By the way a 36 yrs.old Bob Mcadoo dominated the Euroleague in 1987, and he also had a better stats than Aryvdas Sabonis.
[B]Bob Mcadoo Career and Stats in the Euroleague [/B]
[quote]In his first year he led Milan to the Italian and European Championship (two times) both, with an average of 26.1 points and 10.2 rebounds. Later he played for Filanto Forl
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=Lebron23]David Robinson is the most underrated Center in this message board. The Admiral was a former NBA Defensive Player of the Year, Regular Season MVP, NBA Scoring Champion, One of only 4 players in NBA history to accumulate a Quadruple Double Performance, and During his prime he also scored 71 points againts the Los Angeles Clippers.
By the way a 36 yrs.old Bob Mcadoo dominated the Euroleague in 1987, and he also had a better stats than Aryvdas Sabonis.
[B]Bob Mcadoo Career and Stats in the Euroleague [/B]
And most people here will agree that David Robinson had a better career than Bob Mcadoo, who was snubbed in the Top 50 Greatest Player of all time.
Can you Imagine a Prime David Robinson and Mcadoo playing in the Euroleague?
By the way if a young Sabonis play in the NBA i can see him averaging 20 ppg, and 12 rpg, and he will never averaged 30/15 in the NBA because he was never a dominant scorer when he played in the Euroleague.[/QUOTE]
To be nitpicky, you haven't listed Mcadoo's Euroleague stats, other than what he did in the final four. You listed his stats in the Italian league, a different and subpar league to the soviet league that Sabonis played in. I can't find Sabonis's euroleague stats anywhere, nor can I find McaDoo's. I won't doubt that Bob Mcadoo's stats were better in the euroleague..I just can't find the stats. Maybe you can...
As for David Robinson, as I mentioned a young Arvydas Sabonis played against Robinson in the 1986 world championships...and this is what happened.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ[/url]
Sabonis made Robinson his beeatch...the admiral is number 11..and watch Sabas dunk on him multiple times and swat his shots away like he's playing with his sister.
As for how much Sabas would score in his prime in the NBA...Let's keep in mind that when he first came to the NBA in his 30's..with two shot knees, two ruptured achilles tendons..overweight...that he averaged 15 pts and 8 rbs...in 23 minutes!!!! The reason that he played so little was because they were terrified that his legs wouldn't hold up to the long haul, not because he didn't deserve more playing time.Now imagine he was able to play a full 36 minutes like most stars...he would have averaged
22 pts and 12 Rbs...and that's a decade past his prime with shot legs!! And in fact when Sabonis did get the minutes those were about what his stats were.
So to say say that 1985 Sabonis only scores 20 and 12 ...there's no way!! Hell he avg 17/9 per 36 min at the age of 36.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=Psileas]Sabonis was never a big-time scorer, even in his prime. Here are his stats:
[url]http://www.basketpedya.com/Acc002InfJug.php?idjug=1754&idioma=1[/url]
As you see, he averaged 20/11 in 1995 for Real, not 22/13. Actually, he only once got to 20+ ppg after 1990 and, mind you, this is still early/mid 90's European basketball, when it was possible for high scorers to average 30+ ppg, even at its strongest leagues. Getting 18-22 ppg for a good team was nice, but not something really rare and spectacular, as it would be today.
[/QUOTE]
He avg 20/11 for Real Madrid in the ACB league..I believe he averaged 22/13 in the euroleague...
You seem to know what you are talking about psileas though, you def have more knowledge about old european basketball than I do. thanks for sharing.
You said you watched Sabonis in the european league..but did you ever watch him in the early to mid 80's or are you talking strictly about when you saw him in the 90's..post knee and achilles injuries?
I doubt you got Soviet communist era league games on television..so your knowledge of Sabas defense would have to have been in the 1986 european championship..of which i posted a link to the televised game and hes a force in the middle. Other than that, (while i hope you did) i doubt you ever saw Sabas much of Sabas pre injuries play defense.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
The only thing prime Shaq has over Sabonis is his ability to commit offensive fouls without being called.
Prime Sabonis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every NBA center in history.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
Prime sabonis> robinson, ewing, brad daugharty and anyother great centers of that era. the only superior centers were shaq because he was more dominante. as was olajuwon.other then that, noone came close. overrall probaly olajuwon, shaq, abdul jabbar, wilt could out do him.
A prime sabonis would tear the current crop of centers into shreds. yao, dwight and co cant even carry sabonis's jockstrap. 7'4 monster who could shoot and pass like a guard whilst having an amazing low post game. not to mention how agile he was in his prime.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
In 92, Sabonis was 28 and averaged 24 ppg in the Olympics?
What about Oscar Schmidt from Brazil? He was 34 in 92 and had 24.7 ppg.
In Atlanta 96 , at age 38, he had 27.3 ppg.
At his prime , in Seul 88, he had 42.3 ppg :eek:
All time Olympic scorer with 28.8 ppg.
He led Brazil to a 1987 Pan American Games upset over the U.S with 46 points.
The american team had David Robinson, Danny Manning, Rex Chapman and other future NBA players.
He was a 6'8 SG. Could have been a great , great scorer in the NBA.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=lakers_forever]In 92, Sabonis was 28 and averaged 24 ppg in the Olympics?
What about Oscar Schmidt from Brazil? He was 34 in 92 and had 24.7 ppg.
In Atlanta 96 , at age 38, he had 27.3 ppg.
At his prime , in Seul 88, he had 42.3 ppg :eek:
All time Olympic scorer with 28.8 ppg.
He led Brazil to a 1987 Pan American Games upset over the U.S with 46 points.
The american team had David Robinson, Danny Manning, Rex Chapman and other future NBA players.
He was a 6'8 SG. Could have been a great , great scorer in the NBA.[/QUOTE]
There's no way Sabonis would be better than Wilt, Shaq, Russell , Hakeem or Kareem. No way.
I have a hard time believing he would be any better than guys like Moses , DRob and Ewing. Actually I think he would be close , but not on the level of those guys, specially in their primes.
Moses was the best player in the world for 3 years. Robinson and Ewing were crazy good in their primes.
Sabonis would be a little better than Yao.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=lakers_forever]There's no way Sabonis would be better than Wilt, Shaq, Russell , Hakeem or Kareem. No way.
I have a hard time believing he would be any better than guys like Moses , DRob and Ewing. Actually I think he would be close , but not on the level of those guys, specially in their primes.
Moses was the best player in the world for 3 years. Robinson and Ewing were crazy good in their primes.
Sabonis would be a little better than Yao.[/QUOTE]
Prime sabonis was alot better then yao.he was alot and i mean alot better passer, had much better handles. had alot more range on his shot. just as skilled scorer in the block.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE]He avg 20/11 for Real Madrid in the ACB league..I believe he averaged 22/13 in the euroleague...
You seem to know what you are talking about psileas though, you def have more knowledge about old european basketball than I do. thanks for sharing.
You said you watched Sabonis in the european league..but did you ever watch him in the early to mid 80's or are you talking strictly about when you saw him in the 90's..post knee and achilles injuries?
I doubt you got Soviet communist era league games on television..so your knowledge of Sabas defense would have to have been in the 1986 european championship..of which i posted a link to the televised game and hes a force in the middle. Other than that, (while i hope you did) i doubt you ever saw Sabas much of Sabas pre injuries play defense.[/QUOTE]
I didn't watch much of Sabonis from his very young days. But I've read opinions from journalists who did and most of them talked about the things you mentioned in the OP: His ability to run the floor, shoot from any range, his high basketball IQ. But I can't recall claims about his defense.
While we know how much Soviets and Americans "liked" each other, I do recall the mention of a game of the USSR N.T against the Virginia University in late '82. Virginia won and Sampson was credited with 13 points, 25 rebounds and 9 blocks. Sabonis had 21 pts, but there was no mention of his other stats.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
If his injuries never happened, Sabonis could have been in the conversation in his prime, but that player never existed because when he had the experience his legs were long gone.
That said, I don't see him becoming THAT great as he lacked the right work ethic to do so.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=godofgods]The only thing prime Shaq has over Sabonis is his ability to commit offensive fouls without being called.
Prime Sabonis >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> every NBA center in history.[/QUOTE]
Ok Shaq owned Sabonis, even though Sabonis got help from Detlef Schremf and Rasheed Wallace everytime Shaq touched the ball. Sabonis could shoot yeh, but do you remember a man named Rik Smits he could shoot too just as well as Sabonis so what, Shaq owned both lol.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
One of the most underrated centers ever. Its a shame we couldnt see him in his prime. And he still played very well after his prime in the NBA. One of the best passers of his era. It was always a joy watching him play the game so smart even if it was against the Lakers. Had he played his entire career in the NBA, I think he would be in the discussions of the level of Patrick Ewing. But GOAT?? Not a chance
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=Korki Buchek]Ah, the weekly Sabonis "would've" thread on ISH.
Have you joined this forum yesterday? And even if you did, what makes you think that he's underrated after you've already seen this ridiculously overrating thread?
[/QUOTE]
Im saying overall he is underrated. Not on Ish bc I could care less what you or others here think. He just never gets talked about ever in media, and he honestly had a bigger impact on the game than he gets credit for. You hear about Vlade Divac but you rarely hear about Sabonis
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=Korki Buchek]Ah, the weekly Sabonis "would've" thread on ISH.
Have you joined this forum yesterday? And even if you did, what makes you think that he's underrated after you've already seen this ridiculously overrating thread?
Oh, okay. If it was just "Prime Sabonis > every NBA center in history.", I would have the confidence to argue with you.. But all those ">>>>"s have me scared, so I better back off. If it's that many ">>>>"s, then it MUST be true.[/QUOTE]
Prime Shaq would have destroyed prime Sabonis, rookie Shaq would have destroyed prime Sabonis and old Shaq would have as well. People always give Sabonis credit for being the only player who could slow down prime Shaq but the fact is everytime shaq got the ball Sabonis was helped by Rasheed Wallace and either Pippen or Shremf everytime Shaq got the ball, so yeh Sabonis plus 2 incredible defenders slowed down Shaq, it wasn't Sabonis doing at all goddamn sons like I said just cuz Sabonis could shoot threes and was so tall you think he's best well look at this foos theres this idiot named Rik Smits who was taller than Sabonis and could shoot better omg prime Shaq dismantled him too. Sabonis yes is probably the best passing center ever, about 3 times passer of Shaq and Shaq is prolly the best passing bigman in the league today, but jusst because he can pass and shoot doesnt make him best center, Shaq is head and shoulders above Sabonis. Heck you all say 39 year old Sabonis dominated euroleague um look at it like this, Shaq goes to euroleague now he would instantly become its best player x2, for one way more contact is allowed there and Shaq would destroy like a nuclear bomb. Marc Gasol was MVP of Spain and do you honestly think Shaq now isn't better than Marc Gasol well I got news for you he is.
There's a fatter, less athletic way shorter 6'9" version of Shaq in greek league who only can last like 7 minutes and he was one of the top european players at one point in his life, seriously even old Shaq would go there and dominate so saying Sabonis did it doesnt mean anything
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
I've seen him play in a few hardwood classic games he difinetly has more skill than Shaq could ever dream of (shooting passing court awarness) but ppl are so acustomed to believe what they're told everday and that's Shaq bla bla bla are the best and nobody else is close. who knows what could've happened if he came in the NBA in his prime
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=SHEED_ gangsta]I've seen him play in a few hardwood classic games he difinetly has more skill than Shaq could ever dream of (shooting passing court awarness) but ppl are so acustomed to believe what they're told everday and that's Shaq bla bla bla are the best and nobody else is close. who knows what could've happened if he came in the NBA in his prime[/QUOTE]
omg goddamn canadian foos don't know anything about basketball why is there a myth Shaq has no skill, honestly even today in his old age he is the most skilled center in the league behind Tim Duncan but is a much much better passer than Tim is so perhaps it evens out, Shaq has great fundamentals and footwork always has, honestly i dont understand why canadians try to talk about basketball when they usually embarrass themselves everytime they try
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=lilmarcgasol]omg goddamn canadian foos don't know anything about basketball why is there a myth Shaq has no skill, honestly even today in his old age he is the most skilled center in the league behind Tim Duncan but is a much much better passer than Tim is so perhaps it evens out, Shaq has great fundamentals and footwork always has, honestly i dont understand why canadians try to talk about basketball when they usually embarrass themselves everytime they try[/QUOTE]
HAHA like some Americans don't embarrass himself (you) everytime you type a word that is supposed to be fools, but you try and gangster it up and leave out the L. You may be the smartest person in the world, but as soon as I see on a consistant basis a person making spelling mistakes I only read the first couple of words and the last couple to try and get an idea of what you are saying.
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=Mdog1]HAHA like some Americans don't embarrass himself (you) everytime you type a word that is supposed to be fools, but you try and gangster it up and leave out the L. You may be the smartest person in the world, but as soon as I see on a consistant basis a person making spelling mistakes I only read the first couple of words and the last couple to try and get an idea of what you are saying.[/QUOTE]
um was clubber lang a gangster no:hammerhead: stop thinking foos is gangster
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=SHEED_ gangsta]I've seen him play in a few hardwood classic games he difinetly has more skill than Shaq could ever dream of (shooting passing court awarness) but ppl are so acustomed to believe what they're told everday and that's Shaq bla bla bla are the best and nobody else is close. who knows what could've happened if he came in the NBA in his prime[/QUOTE]
I think Sabonis had more fundamental skills than Shaq and better court awareness, but lets not underrate Shaq's skills. Aside from his freak of nature size and athleticism inhis prime, he was/is one of the most sound big men in the league. His passing and footwork are top notch for a big man. Shaq pure size and strength along with his skill makes him the superior player to Sabonis. Even if Sabonis possessed more skill in other aspects of the game
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Re: Possible that a Young, Healthy Arvydas Sabonis the GOAT center?
[QUOTE=lilmarcgasol]um was clubber lang a gangster no:hammerhead: stop thinking foos is gangster[/QUOTE]
Oh sorry, but you do realize that [B]C[/B]lubber [B]L[/B]ang is not a real person right? I mean he was a character in a movie.