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The argument can be made that KG has a ring to Cwebs 0
that can be defended that if cwebb had kgs cast of pierce ray ect.. he too would of won it
and would of won it with his old cast if the refs didnt **** him
Kg or cwebb prime who do u take to start a team?
i love C-Webb but KG for me please
[QUOTE=west]i love C-Webb but KG for me please[/QUOTE]
same with me brother.
kg because of his defense
[QUOTE=jaydacris]kg because of his defense[/QUOTE]
Same here.
I think this is about even. If CW didn't go down in 2003, I honestly think he would have had a title. Think about it: the Blazers were in decline by that time. The Lakers were stopped by the Spurs, and after 2004 would break up. The Suns were emerging at that time, but I don't think they were better than the Kings. And we all saw what Dallas did in the weaker West in the next few years. The major powers were in decline, and the only teams at the top were the Spurs (legit), Suns (IMO not as good), and Dallas (who Sac owned up to that point). I honestly think if not for the injury to Webber (which prompted the breakup of the team with several trades), that the Kings would have had a title, and the ring discussion would be moot. But I can't rewrite history. All I know is at their respective peaks, they were the only PF's who could consistently be 20-25 PPG, 10+ rebounds, 5+ assists on any given night. CW, KG, and Timmy were the top forwards.
Also, I haven't seen a player take less credit for winning than Webber.
Definatly KG.
C-Webb.
He's a better player then KG.
tough call, kgs had a better career. but c weeb in his prime was right up there with kg and duncan.
i would prefer to have cwebb though, probs cos i hate kg
[QUOTE=plowking]C-Webb.
He's a better player then KG.[/QUOTE]
+1
um i made this thread b/c people said it would be better to compare cwebb to gasol...
KG
[QUOTE=Kobe=MVP07`]um i made this thread b/c people said it would be better to compare cwebb to gasol...[/QUOTE]
Here's the thing though, the fact that KG has a ring now kind of skews the results.
[QUOTE=plowking]C-Webb.
He's a better player then KG.[/QUOTE]
There was never any time after KG 2nd season in the league that C-webb was better then him. Period. Point blank. Never. He played with much better players in his prime. But he was never, I repeat never, ever better then Kevin Garnett. He probably may've been a more explosive scorer, and they were equals as passers. But rebounding, and defense>>>>>KG all the way. KG could switch out on pick and rolls and cover 1's,2's, and 3's. Sorry but C-webb couldn't guard 4's very well.
Case in point I remember early 00's Antoine lighting up C-webb on the reg, and struggling mightily against KG unless he was crazy hot from behind the arc.
KG-because he was always the better player
[QUOTE=Celts34]There was never any time after KG 2nd season in the league that C-webb was better then him. Period. Point blank. Never.[/quote]
99-03 they were pretty even, but Webber's teams weren't getting sent home after round 1.
[quote]He played with much better players in his prime. But he was never, I repeat never, ever better then Kevin Garnett.[/quote]
Webber turned a franchise around with a not-so-talented squad in 98. Sure, at their best, the kings were more talented, but Webber was still the best player, the franchise player, and despite a more talented cast, he was beasting as far as production. He made them what they were, because they weren't stacked when he arrived. Think about that.
[quote]He probably may've been a more explosive scorer, and they were equals as passers. But rebounding, and defense>>>>>KG all the way. KG could switch out on pick and rolls and cover 1's,2's, and 3's. Sorry but C-webb couldn't guard 4's very well.[/QUOTE]
KG is a better defender, no doubt. I just don't think the difference in KG's play and Webber's play so so great to say Webber was never as good or better.
[QUOTE=Celts34]There was never any time after KG 2nd season in the league that C-webb was better then him. Period. Point blank. Never. He played with much better players in his prime. But he was never, I repeat never, ever better then Kevin Garnett. He probably may've been a more explosive scorer, and they were equals as passers. But rebounding, and defense>>>>>KG all the way. KG could switch out on pick and rolls and cover 1's,2's, and 3's. Sorry but C-webb couldn't guard 4's very well.
Case in point I remember early 00's Antoine lighting up C-webb on the reg, and struggling mightily against KG unless he was crazy hot from behind the arc.[/QUOTE]
You are a Celts fan and probably very young. Webber was a very good player on both sides of the court. Very underrated defender. He was good both on offense and defense.
After KG's second season? KG only became the better player after the 02-03 season in my opinion.
Webber in his prime was a beast but the guy choked a lot. Bibby seemed more valuable in the clutch than Webber. KG wasn't exactly clutch, but his affect on the game was bigger because of his defense.
KG over Webber.
[QUOTE=RoseCity07][B]Webber in his prime was a beast but the guy choked a lot. Bibby seemed more valuable in the clutch than Webber.[/B] KG wasn't exactly clutch, but his affect on the game was bigger because of his defense.
KG over Webber.[/QUOTE]
Yea, people have seem to forgotten how many times Webber choked during his career. I remember when that Game 7 of the 2002 WCF went to OT...Webber couldn't hit a single shot. If my memory serves me correctly, Bibby scored all of the Sacramento points during that overtime.
[QUOTE=plowking]You are a Celts fan and probably very young. Webber was a very good player on both sides of the court. Very underrated defender. He was good both on offense and defense.
After KG's second season? KG only became the better player after the 02-03 season in my opinion.[/QUOTE]
First off I'm 28. Now thats not ancient, but I'm not like most of the teeny-boppers banging this place out. 2nd off I followed C-webb whole career from Ann Arbor, to GS, to the Bullets, to the Kings, and we'll just leave his scrub years with the Sixers and Pistons out the discussion.
C-Webb was a good, not great rebounder. When he had good knees, he was an explosive scorer, who was a bear for other PF's to guard because of his ball-handling, quickness, and althleticism. He basically did everything really well, he had range out to 18-20 ft, (occasionally a 3 pter), he ran the floor well, and was a great passer out the double team. However he was really about 6-9(and struggled mightily guarding the other big time forwards in the early 00's Sheed, TD, and KG) didn't have much of a post game outside of a little baby hook, and once said knees left him never really ventured into the paint anymore. His "defense" even in his prime years was never the strong point of his game, and even if we want to call it good. KG has always been a game-changer on defense.
I'm not knocking C-webb, he was one of my favorite players in HS back in the mid-late 90's. But IMO you can't say he was a better player than KG in his prime. If you stack their games up side by side in totality. I just don't see it. You could go the whole consecutive 1st round playoff exit rout, if you want. But if you really look at each one of those exits how many times was KG's team better than the one his lost too? People act like he was consistently losing to lower seeds or something? I seem to remember alot 4/5 matchups.
[QUOTE=bokes15]Here's the thing though, the fact that KG has a ring now kind of skews the results.[/QUOTE]how does it skew the results... what does a ring have to do with who can play basketball better...
so tired of the "he's got a ring" argument.. this isn't a who has played for better teams thread nor is it a who makes those around them better thread it's a who is the better ball player thread...
people need to stop clouding the water with arguments based on the other 14 players on the guys team contributions
as for who's better i'll give the nod to webber, garnett is a better defender, but webbers all around game was more polished
[QUOTE=gencbiba]^^ He's right. As far as a better basketball player, it goes to Webber.
When we have questions about who was the better winner, then maybe, but Webber was never surrounded by 2 other previous superstars. And Ray Allen and Paul Pierce WERE superstars in their own respective teams.[/QUOTE]
How do you figure that??? When C-webb had at one time. A prime Bibby who made AS teams. Peja who people during this time(here I might add) was trumpeted as a top 10, and even by some a top 5 player. Divac who was the best passing Center in the game. B-Jax was a perennial 6th man candidate. Not to mention they also had young guys like Turkoglu and Wallace coming in off the bench.
And most importantly lets not forget that C-Webb' playoff history is rife with hideous choke jobs in big games, lets slow down with the better winner stuff Its really not warranted. Sheed' blazers and his Pistons were perennial 50+, and ventured on quite a few playoff runs, so he's a better winner then either of them??
[QUOTE=Celts34]How do you figure that??? When C-webb had at one time.[B] A prime Bibby who made AS teams. [/B]Peja who people during this time(here I might add) was trumpeted as a top 10, and even by some a top 5 player. Divac who was the best passing Center in the game. B-Jax was a perennial 6th man candidate. Not to mention they also had young guys like Turkoglu and Wallace coming in off the bench.
And most importantly lets not forget that C-Webb' playoff history is rife with hideous choke jobs in big games, lets slow down with the better winner stuff Its really not warranted. Sheed' blazers and his Pistons were perennial 50+, and ventured on quite a few playoff runs, so he's a better winner then either of them??[/QUOTE]
Bibby never made an all-star team. And his best statistical years (04-05 and 05-06), Webber was injured, on the decline, and ultimately traded.
Garnett
KG is a top 25 player of all-time, anything less is ridiculous.
Webber doesn`t make the top 50, imo.
[QUOTE=Stacey King]Bibby never made an all-star team. And his best statistical years (04-05 and 05-06), Webber was injured, on the decline, and ultimately traded.[/QUOTE]
I could've swore he made one.
chris webber, jalen rose, juwan howard, jimmy king, and ray jackson (the Fab 5!) were my favorite college squad ever. after that, webber landed with golden state, where tim hardaway was already my favorite NBA player. then, when portland fired geoff petrie and rick adelman, and those two landed in sacramento, the kings were kind of my "other team".
it would be very hard to find a bigger fan of chris webber than i am.
and i'd still take KG.
[QUOTE=gencbiba]Bibby was only in his third and fourth seasons when they made those successful runs. He was never on the AS team, but he did deserve to be on there at least once in his career. B-Jax was a good sixth man, yeah. Peja was never considered top 10 or top 5. Just a one-dimensional SF. He did average 25 ppg once, but that was when Webber wasn't around, and they didn't do anything anyway. Divac was already on his last set of knees.
Turkoglu was too young and inexperienced. Wallace barely got 10 min off the bench.[/QUOTE]
Peja was most definetly argued as being top 10 in 01-02, and 02-03. There were people who argued he was a better player then Dirk. People at one time were comparing Peja to larry Bird. Don't you remember that special that with Melo, Bron, Magic, and Bird. The one that got Bird in all that trouble when he said the NBA was hurting because there were no white stars. It was because Bron or melo(I forget who)asked magic what he thought about people saying Peja was better than Larry Bird. And Magic laughed, then got all serious said hell no(basically), and that there would never be another Larry bird. Which is what got the Legend started on his no stars speech.
And Turkoglu got regular pt off the bench, now he wasn't nearly as good as he is now. But he wasn't Lawrence Funderburke either.
[QUOTE=dhenk]Garnett
[B]KG is a top 25 player of all-time, anything less is ridiculous.[/B]
Webber doesn`t make the top 50, imo.[/QUOTE]
Haha.
Webber only doesn't make the top 50 due to rings. Greatness is different to who the better ball player is.
Webber was/is the better player, though KG is simply rated higher due to longevity and his ring. Webber was the better player in terms of basketball.
[QUOTE=Celts34]How do you figure that??? When C-webb had at one time. A prime Bibby who made AS teams. Peja who people during this time(here I might add) was trumpeted as a top 10, and even by some a top 5 player. Divac who was the best passing Center in the game. B-Jax was a perennial 6th man candidate. Not to mention they also had young guys like Turkoglu and Wallace coming in off the bench.
And most importantly lets not forget that C-Webb' playoff history is rife with hideous choke jobs in big games, lets slow down with the better winner stuff Its really not warranted. Sheed' blazers and his Pistons were perennial 50+, and ventured on quite a few playoff runs, so he's a better winner then either of them??[/QUOTE]
When was C-Webb ever on a team as good as last years Celtics?
[QUOTE=gts]how does it skew the results... what does a ring have to do with who can play basketball better...
so tired of the "he's got a ring" argument.. this isn't a who has played for better teams thread nor is it a who makes those around them better thread it's a who is the better ball player thread...
people need to stop clouding the water with arguments based on the other 14 players on the guys team contributions
as for who's better i'll give the nod to webber, garnett is a better defender, but webbers all around game was more polished[/QUOTE]
Have you ever taken a statistics course? To "skew" the results means that an outside variable affects the desired outcome from the question propsed. In laymans terms for those who aren't so bright, people probably won't give C-Webb a fair player vs. player comparison given the fact that KG now has a ring. :hammerhead:
[QUOTE=Celts34]Peja was most definetly argued as being top 10 in 01-02, and 02-03. There were people who argued he was a better player then Dirk. [/quote]
By who? As a shooter? Definitely. Not as a top player. He was a MVP candidate during Webber's injury in 2004, when he was battling for the scoring championship, but that was it.
[quote]People at one time were comparing Peja to larry Bird. Don't you remember that special that with Melo, Bron, Magic, and Bird. The one that got Bird in all that trouble when he said the NBA was hurting because there were no white stars. It was because Bron or melo(I forget who)asked magic what he thought about people saying Peja was better than Larry Bird. And Magic laughed, then got all serious said hell no(basically), and that there would never be another Larry bird. Which is what got the Legend started on his no stars speech. [/quote]
I don't know what world you lived in where Peja was a top 5 all around player and was compared to Bird.
[QUOTE=plowking]When was C-Webb ever on a team as good as last years Celtics?[/QUOTE]
I would argue the 00-01, and 01-02 Kings were probably very close.
[QUOTE=Celts34]I would argue the 00-01, and 01-02 Kings were probably very close.[/QUOTE]
Very good teams, but they don't compare to last years Celtics. Not even close. A team that topped out at 61 wins and never made the championship doesn't compare to a team with three stars winning 66 games and the championship
kg
[QUOTE=Showtime]By who? As a shooter? Definitely. Not as a top player. He was a MVP candidate during Webber's injury in 2004, when he was battling for the scoring championship, but that was it.
I don't know what world you lived in where Peja was a top 5 all around player and was compared to Bird.[/QUOTE]
[URL="http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jan/11/sports/sp-dogsackings11"]http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jan/11/sports/sp-dogsackings11[/URL]
Yea cuz I jus make this stuff up.
[URL="http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1031108/index.htm"]http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1031108/index.htm[/URL]
Yea Peja being compared to Bird never happened though right.
[URL="http://fantasybbcoach.blogspot.com/2006/01/pacers-must-adjust-with-peja.html"]http://fantasybbcoach.blogspot.com/2006/01/pacers-must-adjust-with-peja.html[/URL]
Yea this was a comparison noone ever tried to make stick
[QUOTE=Celts34][URL="http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jan/11/sports/sp-dogsackings11"]http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jan/11/sports/sp-dogsackings11[/URL]
Yea cuz I jus make this stuff up.
[URL="http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1031108/index.htm"]http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1031108/index.htm[/URL]
Yea Peja being compared to Bird never happened though right.[/QUOTE]
Adam Morrison was compared to Bird as well.
Wait, so was every tall white guy who could shoot...
[QUOTE=Celts34][URL="http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jan/11/sports/sp-dogsackings11"]http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jan/11/sports/sp-dogsackings11[/URL]
Yea cuz I jus make this stuff up.
[URL="http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1031108/index.htm"]http://vault.sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1031108/index.htm[/URL]
Yea Peja being compared to Bird never happened though right.
[URL="http://fantasybbcoach.blogspot.com/2006/01/pacers-must-adjust-with-peja.html"]http://fantasybbcoach.blogspot.com/2006/01/pacers-must-adjust-with-peja.html[/URL]
Yea this was a comparison noone ever tried to make stick[/QUOTE]
LOL. Doug Christie comparing him to Bird and that is what you call "he was being compared to Bird".
I guess you can say that Marion and Wade = Pippen and Jordan due to I believe Riley saying so.
I'll take KG without thinking twice.
[QUOTE=plowking]Adam Morrison was compared to Bird as well.
Wait, so was every tall white guy who could shoot...[/QUOTE]
Whether or not it has proved to be accurate is irrelevant. A few people have tried to make it sound like I'm rewriting history here. People used to speak highly of Peja, and his perceived rank by some was an upper echelon player. thats the only point I'm trying to make.
[QUOTE=plowking]LOL. Doug Christie comparing him to Bird and that is what you call "he was being compared to Bird".
I guess you can say that Marion and Wade = Pippen and Jordan due to I believe Riley saying so.[/QUOTE]
I don't feel like scouring the internet for stuff from 5 years ago, I'm just saying it was a debate people frequently brought up. After Peja' drop into specialist territory, Dirk was given that mantle. But whatever I know I'm not making this up.