1st and 10: How would Wilt do in today's NBA (Anyone catch this today?)

Anyone watch 1st and 10 on ESPN today? Well since it was the 47th anniversary of Wilt's 100 point game, Skip Bayless and the 2 Live Stews were arguing about how Wilt would do in today's NBA. I didn't really agree with either one of them, but I definitely leaned more towards Skip's argument. Skip said he'd average about 35ppg/15rpg, while the one of the Live Stews said he wouldn't do anything in this league and Shaq and Dwight would destroy him, while the other one said he'd be an above average Tyson Chandler. The most ridiculous statement was the first Stew said that Wilt dominated midgets and today's players are specimens compared to them, and Wilt WAS NOT a specimen. And when Skip started talking about his track and field numbers, they still didn't change their opinion. I do think today's players are specimens compared to most of the players from the 60s but DEFINITELY not compared to Wilt who would be a freak of an athlete even in today's game. Now I definitely don't think Wilt would average 35/15, but probably Shaq's prime numbers + more rebounds instead and one of the best players in the league if not the best. I think most players from back then probably wouldn't have the same success, but I think Wilt is one and maybe the only one who would still have relatively the same, as far as where his place in the league is but not the inflated numbers. Anyway, anyone see this and what was your reaction? And remember the context of the topic was if Wilt AS HE WAS, and not if he had the advanced workout and coaching techniques to follow, was in the NBA today.

He would get DOMINATED, straight up.

[QUOTE=OneMoreSucka]He would get DOMINATED, straight up.[/QUOTE]

With today's conditioning I doubt it.

He would be a defensive stalwart for sure.

But I doubt he was skilled enough offensively to outplay todays elite centers (edit: For clarification by elite I mean Duncan, Yao, and Dwight. I also believe Prime Shaq, Hakeem, and Robinson would have eaten his heart out).

He just didn't have to have a repertoire of moves to dominate the competition he played against.

[QUOTE=BlackManWitHops]^^nobody at that time had that either.

[B][B][U]some of u idiots dont seem to understand that he wouldve evolved with the time if he played today[/U][/B][/B](as in hed be even more of a freak of nature, more skillz thx to todays technology/trainning etc.). like u guys actually think that if kobe was born in the 50's, hed play exactly like hes playing in this. no, hed be playing with 50's style of playing except hed be better than the average of course, and thats what define the great ones.[/QUOTE]

How do you know that?

Wilt had a hook, and the hook shot has worked for 50 years. Combine that with his marvelous finger roll, foot work, and athletic ability and you have a player that could play in any era.

[QUOTE=guy]Anyone watch 1st and 10 on ESPN today? Well since it was the 47th anniversary of Wilt's 100 point game, Skip Bayless and the 2 Live Stews were arguing about how Wilt would do in today's NBA. I didn't really agree with either one of them, but I definitely leaned more towards Skip's argument. Skip said he'd average about 35ppg/15rpg, while the one of the Live Stews said he wouldn't do anything in this league and Shaq and Dwight would destroy him, while the other one said he'd be an above average Tyson Chandler. The most ridiculous statement was the first Stew said that Wilt dominated midgets and today's players are specimens compared to them, and Wilt WAS NOT a specimen. And when Skip started talking about his track and field numbers, they still didn't change their opinion. I do think today's players are specimens compared to most of the players from the 60s but DEFINITELY not compared to Wilt who would be a freak of an athlete even in today's game. Now I definitely don't think Wilt would average 35/15, but probably Shaq's prime numbers + more rebounds instead and one of the best players in the league if not the best. I think most players from back then probably wouldn't have the same success, but I think Wilt is one and maybe the only one who would still have relatively the same, as far as where his place in the league is but not the inflated numbers. Anyway, anyone see this and what was your reaction? And remember the context of the topic was if Wilt AS HE WAS, and not if he had the advanced workout and coaching techniques to follow, was in the NBA today.[/QUOTE]


thanks guy

An old Wilt held his own against Kareem Abdull Jabbar. It's pretty easy to assume that he would dominate against , perhaps, the weakest era of centers of the last 40 years

[QUOTE=lakers_forever]An old Wilt held his own against Kareem Abdull Jabbar. It's pretty easy to assume that he would dominate against , perhaps, the weakest era of centers of the last 40 years[/QUOTE]

Yea thats true. I think he'd easily be the best center in the league today. It would be different if he was in the 90s going up against Hakeem, Robinson, Shaq, Ewing, Mourning, etc. He'd still dominate just not as much as today.

I forgot to add that although Skip said Wilt would have the stats and still the domination, he also said Wilt would not have any titles cause of his personality that just wasn't aggressive enough and didn't seem to care enough. I think thats a fair assessment because that was his biggest criticism. He also said Dwight Howard seems to have that same problem.

Skip said he'd average 35/15 though? I don't think anyone has done that since Kareem. Maybe Moses came close to it. But all things being equal I don't think he quite gets to that clip.

One thing I wonder about this situaiton. Put in in reverse. Put Dwight Howard in 1960. Know what would happen?

Insane numbers resulting in people today saying he couldnt dominate the modern league because all he did was dunk and get rebounds over skinny white centers. All we would see of him is layups and dunks(no impressive lobs...they didnt throw them back then) and blocks that didnt count.

And the same people saying Wilt would get owned today would be saying it about Howard. If they dont care Wilt was a near olympic level high jumper and long jumped 21 feet at his size they wouldnt care that Dwight could say...dunk on a 12 foot rim(As wilt did in an experimental thing in Kansas in the 50s).

Nobody back then could really show their full athletic potential because for one....little was recorded...and two...you didnt have people trying to do it. Wilt is a 7'1'' or 2 high jump champ who could hold a basketball with 2 fingers. Think he couldint windmill? He long jumped 21 feet. Think he couldnt take off from the FT line and dunk when he had a 9'6'' standing reach? Nobody threw him lobs to go get. He never had to jump much to dunk.

Whats the motivation to make crazy plays? If hes not blocking a shot he has little reason to go high. And even then its rare.

Dwight Howard, or Amare, or most any athletic bigman these days playing back then puts up numbers and has people making dumb claims about them likely being garbage today.

And something else...if nobody would throw him a lob and he couldnt do something fancy on the break without being benched for showing off...how would you know say...Iguodala was a great athlete? Driving by guys quickly and laying it up? Cant even really bang on people too much. Was considered disrespect.

How would you know exactly?

How would you know Jrich was athletic without the dunk contest, lobs, showing off on the break, and dunking on people(last one he rarely does).

How would you go about looking athletic in a 60s situation?

Prime Wilt would be around 30/14/4/3 on 60% from the field today.

Wilt played against a very large number of great and dominant centers in his 14 year career, here is the list:

* Bill Russel
* Kareem Abdul Jabbar
* Willis Reed
* Wes Unseld
* Elvin Hayes
* Dolph Schayes
* Nate Thurmond
* Bob Lanier

Any one of the above centers in their prime would at WORST be the second best center in today's NBA. All of them except Bob Lanier (20ppg, 9rpg career) appeared on the 50 greatest players list put out by the NBA in 1996.Wilt dominated them all but he wouldn't be abl to do so today? It is interesting to note that except for Russel & Schayes all of the above players were young or in their prime during the 1971-72 season when Wilt's Lakers won 33 consecutive games, went 69-13 & won the NBA Championship.

Pre-zone (say, if he played from 1993-2004), he'd put up 31-34 pts/15-16 reb/5 ast/3.5-4.5 blk/54-56% FG imo.

Post-zone, he'd average 27-30 pts/15-16 reb/5 ast/4+ blk/54-55% FG imo.

[QUOTE=Jacks3]Wilt played against a very large number of great and dominant centers in his 14 year career, here is the list:

* Bill Russel
* Kareem Abdul Jabbar
* Willis Reed
* Wes Unseld
* Elvin Hayes
* Dolph Schayes
* Nate Thurmond
* Bob Lanier

Any one of the above centers in their prime would at WORST be the second best center in today's NBA. All of them except Bob Lanier (20ppg, 9rpg career) appeared on the 50 greatest players list put out by the NBA in 1996.Wilt dominated them all but he wouldn't be abl to do so today? It is interesting to note that except for Russel & Schayes all of the above players were young or in their prime during the 1971-72 season when Wilt's Lakers won 33 consecutive games, went 69-13 & won the NBA Championship.[/QUOTE]


:applause:

I give him career averages of about 21 ppg 10 rpg 3 bpg on 55% FG

Prime about 24 12 and 4 on 58%

35 and 15 is silly, I dont think any big man can do that today, especially with the zone. But, I could see Wilt averaging a solid 25, 13 and 3, he was skilled offensively, some of the things he did on offense wouldnt work out as well today, but he wouldnt turn into Diekembe Mutumbo either.

He would be an elite center, I dont think he'd be better than the 99-03 Shaq though.

There is no way Dwight would be better than Wilt. No way in hell.

Wilt's passing ability must be also thrown into the equation. His all-around game was special. Outside of Shaq and maybe Yao there is not really anyone in the Association that would be able to work him in the post.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]One thing I wonder about this situaiton. Put in in reverse. Put Dwight Howard in 1960. Know what would happen?

Insane numbers resulting in people today saying he couldnt dominate the modern league because all he did was dunk and get rebounds over skinny white centers. All we would see of him is layups and dunks(no impressive lobs...they didnt throw them back then) and blocks that didnt count.

And the same people saying Wilt would get owned today would be saying it about Howard. If they dont care Wilt was a near olympic level high jumper and long jumped 21 feet at his size they wouldnt care that Dwight could say...dunk on a 12 foot rim(As wilt did in an experimental thing in Kansas in the 50s).

Nobody back then could really show their full athletic potential because for one....little was recorded...and two...you didnt have people trying to do it. Wilt is a 7'1'' or 2 high jump champ who could hold a basketball with 2 fingers. Think he couldint windmill? He long jumped 21 feet. Think he couldnt take off from the FT line and dunk when he had a 9'6'' standing reach? Nobody threw him lobs to go get. He never had to jump much to dunk.

Whats the motivation to make crazy plays? If hes not blocking a shot he has little reason to go high. And even then its rare.

Dwight Howard, or Amare, or most any athletic bigman these days playing back then puts up numbers and has people making dumb claims about them likely being garbage today.

And something else...if nobody would throw him a lob and he couldnt do something fancy on the break without being benched for showing off...how would you know say...Iguodala was a great athlete? Driving by guys quickly and laying it up? Cant even really bang on people too much. Was considered disrespect.

How would you know exactly?

How would you know Jrich was athletic without the dunk contest, lobs, showing off on the break, and dunking on people(last one he rarely does).

How would you go about looking athletic in a 60s situation?[/QUOTE]
:bowdown: :cheers:

I googled "2 Live Stews", since I have no idea who the hell they are and I found out that, fortunately, they are former NFL players. When you think that the 60's and 70's centers were "midgets" and that Wilt wasn't a physical specimen, you shouldn't be qualified to talk about basketball.

I'm not going to elaborate, kblaze already did a good job. I'll just have one more laughter at the idea of Dwight "destroying" Wilt, the very same Dwight who can't even destroy an above average center, like Gasol and the same Dwight who, at this very moment, is being outplayed by 37 year-old Shaq.

Btw, after the 0:50 mark of the following video, there's some new footage from college Wilt. Dwight would only wish he could make shots like Wilt's last one:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUdDoxjmZdQ[/url]

LOL @ the thought of Wilt ****ing Chamberlain going up against:

Rasho
Biedrins
Bosh/Bargz
Gasol
Lee

Or half the "C's" in the league who are actually PFs playing out of position. I mean really now. 35/10 or something might not be too far off the mark for right now. Zone? Whatever. Old Shaq doesn't care, he's just old so he can't go all out, plus he's lost his touch around the basket a little and his moves are slower than they used to be. Wilt had more range and was quicker. He would badly embarrass current big men. Look at his arms. Look at film. Dude just runs to the paint, lob him the ball, he jumps up and grabs it, and then flicks it home. Easy. Plus he runs the floor like a gazelle.

Wilt would continue to dominate in this era playing in his prime, as others said, he was a freak of nature. With today's technology, it wouldnt be far off to say he may have been even more athletic then he was already.

He will get man handled by both Shaq and Duncan.

Kblaze8855 excellent post. i'll add wilt was an accomplised volleyball player and would often play volleyball during the day and play a laker game at night and after retiring from the lakers was on a pro volleyball team

this is also from his wiki page
[QUOTE]Even far beyond his playing days, Chamberlain was a very fit person. In his mid-forties, he was able to humble a young Los Angeles Lakers rookie called Magic Johnson in practice,[95] and even in the 1980s, he flirted with making a comeback in the NBA. In the 1980-81 NBA season, coach Larry Brown recalled that the 45-year old Chamberlain had received an offer by the Cleveland Cavaliers. When Chamberlain was 50, the New Jersey Nets had the same idea, and Chamberlain declined again.[95] Chamberlain however participated in several marathons instead.[4] He would stay an epitome of physical fitness for years to come, until his health rapidly worsened in 1999.[32][/QUOTE]

[QUOTE]Of all his memories of Wilt Chamberlain, the one that stood out for Larry Brown happened long after Chamberlain's professional career was over.


On a summer day in the early 1980s at the Men's Gym on the UCLA campus, Chamberlain showed up to take part in one of the high-octane pickup games that the arena constantly attracted. Brown was the coach of the Bruins back then, and Chamberlain often drove to UCLA from his home in Bel Air, Calif.


"Magic Johnson used to run the games," Brown recalled Tuesday after hearing that Chamberlain, his friend, had died at the age of 63, "and he called a couple of chintzy fouls and a goaltending on Wilt.


"So Wilt said: 'There will be no more layups in this gym,' and he blocked every shot after that. That's the truth, I saw it. He didn't let one (of Johnson's) shots get to the rim."


Chamberlain would have been in his mid-40s at the time, a decade removed from one of the greatest careers any basketball player ever produced. But the advancing years meant little to Chamberlain in terms of physical conditioning.


Into his 50s and his 60s, Chamberlain remained an incredible specimen -- a mountain of a man who was as coordinated and talented athletically as he was imposing physically.


The Cleveland Cavaliers called him in the early '80s and asked him if he'd still be interested in playing. Five or six years later, when Chamberlain was 50, the New Jersey Nets had the same idea.


Neither of those potential comebacks ever came to pass, but the very idea of signing a player so old shows just how well Chamberlain kept himself in shape -- and how shocked people were when they heard he had died.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://static.espn.go.com/nba/news/1999/1012/110842.html[/url]

Everyone keeps saying that he get dominated because everyone today is bigger etc. hint: it because they are modern day professionals that put 24/7 into there body and sport. Imagine if Wilt had the same **** available to him, he would be bigger and stronger and be able to bump bodies with big guys like dwight and dominate him.

Holy cow, I just watched kblaze's video in the OP, and take a look at Wilt's speed from 51-53 seconds. Dude just put on the jets and covers huge distance incredibly quickly at 7'1"+. Amazing speed for anyone, much less a big guy like him. Check it out.

[QUOTE=Godfather]How do you know that?[/QUOTE]
Ummm if Wilt played in Today's he'd be as conditioned as well as Today's NBA players, correct?

1st and 10/cold pizza are the worsto... anything with Skip Bayless is suspect right out the box.

Wilt might have actually wound up with a better legacy in a way if he played today IMHO. He would not have his 100 point game but he also would not have so many sports writers assuming he posted #'s [B]JUST[/B] due to being a giant. To my eye he has everything needed and then some to dominate today.

He scored 100 points on a stiff team and ball hogging/being fed the ball for the record, come the playoffs he averaged 22ppg and only won 2 chips, 1 of them as nowhere near the best player on his team.Much like Kobe could do it against the stiffs but cracked up when it really mattered.End of the day regular season is a warmup, playoffs are where it matters.James white can jump longer than anyone ive seen yet he sucks in the nba.

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Holy cow, I just watched kblaze's video in the OP, and take a look at Wilt's speed from 51-53 seconds. Dude just put on the jets and covers huge distance incredibly quickly at 7'1"+. Amazing speed for anyone, much less a big guy like him. Check it out.[/QUOTE]welcome to the the real world...lol

[B]You people are insane...Wilt would dominate in today`s game with ease. His arm strength was like Karl Malone but just add to that to a man that was around 7`2 and add a little more. He would probably weight around 320-330 lbs with todays vitamins and his natural shoulder/arm strength would inrease more likes of Malone do to that fact. His stamina we don`t have to talk about :confusedshrug: He would lead the league in Blocks, Rebounds, Scoring over the years and would be second to Shaq in FG% efficiency inside over the years. His numbers would look like this: [COLOR="Red"]25-36 PPG (50-57% FG), 12-20 RPG (no way any one today can out rebound Wilt!), 3-6 AGP, 2-4 BPG...over the years[/COLOR]. He would be the most fouled player like a larger version of Karl Malone I say again. His fadeaway would be perfected and [I][U]he would be able to knock and drunk as hard as he could which he wasn`t allowed before do to pitty and rules[/U][/I].

Look Wilt outrebounded Kareem by miles, shot at a higher FG% and held his own from 1969-1972 and this is what Kareem achieved vs Hakeem in their 29 meetings from 1984-85 to 1989-90:

Remember this...

[COLOR="Blue"]Kareem: 37-41 Years Old (atleast [U]4-5 years passed his prime [/U]and Yes![I] [U]no where near his physical prime[/U][/I])[/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Hakeem: 22-27 (total physical prime and practically prime)[/COLOR] [/B]

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/fc/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=abdulka01&p2=olajuha01[/url]

[COLOR="Blue"][B]Kareem: 15.2 PPG on [SIZE="4"]56.7% FG Shooting (Far from Stoping Him!:rolleyes: :confusedshrug: )[/SIZE], 5.8 RPG, 1.4 BPG, 1.4 APG and 0.5 SPG but in [I][U][SIZE="4"]ONLY 28.4 MPG[/SIZE][/U][/I][/COLOR]

[COLOR="DarkRed"]Hakeem: 21.8 PPG on 47.5% FG Shooting (Kareem lowered his FG!:confusedshrug: ), 11.9 RPG, 3.0 APG, 2.5 SPG and 2.6 BPG but [U][I]IN 37.8 MPG[/I][/U][/COLOR]

Kareem held his own agains the Dream while playing lesser minutes, making more FGs, Taking Less FGAs PG , Shooting 9% FG Superior to Hakeem and playing 9.4 MPG Lesser (a quarter pretty much)[/B]:rolleyes: :banghead:

[QUOTE=gts]welcome to the the real world...lol[/QUOTE]

Huh? I don't get it. You see many 7'1"+ guys in the league accelerate that fast in a burst like that?

He could be a 26/12 big man.

Remember, the rules are different now.

[QUOTE=OldSchoolBBall]Huh? I don't get it. You see many 7'1"+ guys in the league accelerate that fast in a burst like that?[/QUOTE]
yeah wilt!
for someone that follows the game like you do i'm just surprised you realized it now...lol

i'm at the office tonight and my computer is doing double duty so i can't really search... but on youtube there was at one time a great call by chick hearn where wilt blocks a shot, controls the block makes an outlet pass, runs the fast break and scores off a baylor assist... one of the best calls by chick hearn ever and a great play by wilt and elgin... hearn must have said the name "wilt" 8 times in the call lol

[QUOTE=bdreason]He could be a 26/12 big man.

Remember, the rules are different now.[/QUOTE]

He's a better scorer than Yao and a better rebounder than Dwight. I'd say 27/14+ at the minimum. Especially the rebounds.

[QUOTE=gts]yeah wilt!
for someone that follows the game like you do i'm just surprised you realized it now...lol[/quote]

No, I knew he was a freak and a track athlete, that was just a very stark video example of his speed. Given the scarcity of Wilt footage, it's not often you see such a clear example of his acceleration.

I think David Robinson's game resemble's Wilts the most. Strength, speed and great all round game. Thus I don't really think he'd do any better then Robinson in todays league.

Maybe 27 and 12 as his max.

Prime Wilt was a beast during his time, but he's no better than Prime Shaq and Hakeem Olajuwon.

Slower Pace Era = Less Points, and Less Rebounds.

Teams in the 1960's averaged more than 110 ppg.

If you compare his 1961-1962 season to Shaq's 1999-2000 season using league averages and give him 40 mpg.

33.0 ppg, 14.7 rpg, 1.8 apg, 53.3 FG%, 61.3 FT%, 24.8 FGA

Yes I did factor in the team rebounds stat when adjusting that. Now that is simply by adjusting pace and minutes, so it's highly doubtful that he gets 2 more ppg against today's slightly bigger, more athletic players.

I gave him less minutes because there's no way in hell he'd play near 48.5 in today's league. Team's value stars too much and nobody has come close. I gave him 40 because that's what Shaq played in 2000 and Jordan's career high in mpg was 40.4 so that's fair.

I also highly doubt any big man could get 24.8 FGA in the modern era, if you give him the 21.1 FGA Shaq averaged in 2000 then Wilt's adjusted ppg becomes 28.1 ppg. That seems a bit low, but more realistic than 35.

In reality I think Wilt's best scoring seasons would have been in the 29-30 ppg range. Shaq did that 3-4 times and David Robinson did that once so I could imagine Wilt doing that a few times as well.

For rebounds I'd say he'd drop from closer to 15(adjusted) down to about 14.

If you want me to give an estimate for early to mid 60's Wilt I'll say 29.5 ppg, 14 rpg, 3 apg, 3 bpg, 56 FG%. So pretty much prime Shaq type numbers.

If you mean Wilt in the late 60's when he was focusing more on team basketball, defense and rebounding then I'll say more like 18 ppg, 15.5 rpg, 5 apg, 4 bpg.

His skills are well documented on film. At 7'1", the only player at that height that rivaled Wilt's athleticism in NBA history is Shaq. Aside from Shaq I can't think of a stronger player either. He was an elite passer and IMO talking about Wilt's later career the only big men in NBA history who compare as passers are Walton, Kareem, Webber, Sabonis and maybe guys like KG, Daugherty and Divac.

He had an assortment of moves that would still be effective today such as that finger roll, hook shot fadeaway, turnaround, bank shot ect.

[QUOTE=guy]Anyone watch 1st and 10 on ESPN today? Well since it was the 47th anniversary of Wilt's 100 point game, Skip Bayless and the 2 Live Stews were arguing about how Wilt would do in today's NBA. I didn't really agree with either one of them, but I definitely leaned more towards Skip's argument. Skip said he'd average about 35ppg/15rpg, while the one of the Live Stews said he wouldn't do anything in this league and Shaq and Dwight would destroy him, while the other one said he'd be an above average Tyson Chandler. The most ridiculous statement was the first Stew said that Wilt dominated midgets and today's players are specimens compared to them, and Wilt WAS NOT a specimen. And when Skip started talking about his track and field numbers, they still didn't change their opinion. I do think today's players are specimens compared to most of the players from the 60s but DEFINITELY not compared to Wilt who would be a freak of an athlete even in today's game. Now I definitely don't think Wilt would average 35/15, but probably Shaq's prime numbers + more rebounds instead and one of the best players in the league if not the best. I think most players from back then probably wouldn't have the same success, but I think Wilt is one and maybe the only one who would still have relatively the same, as far as where his place in the league is but not the inflated numbers. Anyway, anyone see this and what was your reaction? And remember the context of the topic was if Wilt AS HE WAS, and not if he had the advanced workout and coaching techniques to follow, was in the NBA today.[/QUOTE]

Skip Bayless analyzed in a weak era.