International teams play a better brand of basketball than USA

If the Americans didn't have an athletic advantage over these squads, they'd be getting blown out of the building.

The game against Lithuania sparked these thoughts in me, but make no mistake about it.. I've felt this way for a while. I should also mention that I'm a Yank myself (born and raised in upstate New York). It's been over the course of several international competitions that I've come to this conclusion (which isn't hard to see)..

While the USA players are better individually (and they are), they seem to be entirely lacking in the fundamental concept of moving the ball. Of finding the open man.

Other countries are constantly looking to pass. The ball finds its way to cutters and open shooters. In contrast, the Americans over dribble for one-on-one moves that lead to contested jumpers.

I found myself rooting for Lithuania because the Americans are maddening to watch. To see the Lithuanian's make brilliant, crisp passes and smart decisions with the ball, immediately followed by a Gay/Durant/Rose/etc taking 10 dribbles then pulling up for 3... I mean, rooting for the other side was something I couldn't help but do.

Anyone else feeling the same?

I feel the same way too. Although I seen on some occasion the Lithuanian tries too hard to force a pass and lead to a turnover.

Anyway, the NBA has evolved into a league which puts more emphasis and spotlight on individual capabilities and performance. That's why our players aren't trained or rather, can't be trained to play like other international teams.

Team > Player

I have been saying this for years and if it wasn't for the Americans athleticisim and talent they get beat everytime. Fundamentals and passing the ball doens't exist with USA basketball, not since '92 and in Beijing.

I blame Kobe Bryant for not being on the team. If he and Kidd was on the team we would sing a different tune. Kobe is the last of a dying breed, who played in the 90's, who also possess man fundamental skills.

This USA team is young and if Kobe was on the team, we wouldn't be having this discussion. He is the only player that can adjust his game to international play. 4th quarter of the gold medal game comes to mind.

Hopefully, Kobe will be on the team, if not, just his presence there would do wonders for this young team.

No I do not.

I'm sick of all this USA bashing.

The US won the game and all everyone can do is point to the US's faults....what about Lithuania's faults? Why haven't they been mentioned?

The only players on Team USA with extensive FIBA experience are who? Billups and Odom?

The rest of the players are adjusting to a new form of ball after being told to do things a certain way for their short careers....it takes some adjusting to.

Americans have skills, we know how to pass and set screens and move without the ball, and we are the best basketball nation in the world.

The thing is in my mind is that some people don't like watching young, talented, and brazen young black men play ball.

Cool.

But don't act like team USA is more athletic because of natural ability and we have no skill.

Other teams would be more athletic if they spent more time in the weight room....some of these guys are dedicated and hard working...they weren't born ripped.

We run and play good defense so we don't have to implement as much offense because we probably have to worst cohesiveness in the tournament....again, not the player's fault.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]No I do not.

I'm sick of all this USA bashing.

The US won the game and all everyone can do is point to the US's faults....what about Lithuania's faults? Why haven't they been mentioned?

The only players on Team USA with extensive FIBA experience are who? Billups and Odom?

The rest of the players are adjusting to a new form of ball after being told to do things a certain way for their short careers....it takes some adjusting to.

Americans have skills, we know how to pass and set screens and move without the ball, and we are the best basketball nation in the world.

The thing is in my mind is that some people don't like watching young, talented, and brazen young black men play ball.

Cool.

[B]But don't act like team USA is more athletic because of natural ability and we have no skill.

Other teams would be more athletic if they spent more time in the weight room....some of these guys are dedicated and hard working...they weren't born ripped.[/B]

We run and play good defense so we don't have to implement as much offense because we probably have to worst cohesiveness in the tournament....again, not the player's fault.[/QUOTE]

No, other teams would be just as athletic if they had as many athletic black players.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster]No, other teams would be just as athletic if they had as many athletic black players.[/QUOTE]

trolling as usual.

:facepalm

[QUOTE=TheLogo]I have been saying this for years and if it wasn't for the Americans athleticisim and talent they get beat everytime. Fundamentals and passing the ball doens't exist with USA basketball, not since '92 and in Beijing.

I blame Kobe Bryant for not being on the team. If he and Kidd was on the team we would sing a different tune. [B]Kobe is the last of a dying breed, who played in the 90's[/B], who also possess man fundamental skills.

This USA team is young and if Kobe was on the team, we wouldn't be having this discussion. He is the only player that can adjust his game to international play. 4th quarter of the gold medal game comes to mind.

Hopefully, Kobe will be on the team, if not, just his presence there would do wonders for this young team.[/QUOTE]

That's funny, yesterday you mentioned several times that you thought the '90's was one of the weakest eras.

Back on topic, a team of champions is never as good as a champion team.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster]No, other teams would be just as athletic if they had as many athletic black players.[/QUOTE]


If you look at a lot of international players it doesn't look as if they put much work in their physiques. Even when they get to the league they aren't as strong as they need to be.

My point was that all of it [physicality] isn't due to your race/color it's due to hard work.

My belief is that more foreigners would be able to play "NBA brand ball" if they hit the weights more.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]If you look at a lot of international players it doesn't look as if they put much work in their physiques. Even when they get to the league they aren't as strong as they need to be.

My point was that all of it [physicality] isn't due to your race/color it's due to hard work.

My belief is that more foreigners would be able to play "NBA brand ball" if they hit the weights more.[/QUOTE]

USA = lifting weights

International = working on their game

USA may not play together like a complete team like some FIBA contenders like Spain or Argentina but they are for sure contenders. USA doesnt have team chemistry like those teams but they will make up for it by effort, speed and defense.

USA has been a completely different brand of basketball for several years now apart from the contenders of FIBA/Olympic tournaments. And a new team for USA is just not going to magically form into a FIBA team after a month of playing together. Why do we still criticize them using this old ass 4-5 year old logic? i do not know. It may be an inferior 'brand' but its still an effective 'brand'. Who cares how good a team looks by crisp passing and chemistry, if you can get fcuking shit done. Outside of 04 and 06 when they didnt get gold and got bronze instead, USA has been successful everytime in FIBA play. USA is just going to try to win everytime playing their style. its the only style they know how to play.

[QUOTE=TheLogo]USA = lifting weights

International = working on their game[/QUOTE]


Wait, so that means American ball players don't work on their game as well?

Lifting weights IS working on your game sir, when you lift weights and train your first step, lift, ability to post/set screens/ hold position, etc all get better.

[QUOTE=DuMa]
USA has been a completely different brand of basketball for several years now apart from the contenders of FIBA/Olympic tournaments. And a new team for USA is just not going to magically form into a FIBA team after a month of playing together. Why do we still criticize them using this old ass 4-5 year old logic? i do not know. It may be an inferior 'brand' but its still an effective 'brand'. Who cares how good a team looks by crisp passing and chemistry, if you can get fcuking shit done. Outside of 04 and 06 when they didnt get gold and got bronze instead, USA has been successful everytime in FIBA play. USA is just going to try to win everytime playing their style.[/QUOTE]


Exactly.

People underestimate the difficulty of adjusting to FIBA and a new group of teammates.

Notice how the Liths crisp passing and cutting got them beat by a team that is not near our best.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]Wait, so that means American ball players don't work on their game as well?

Lifting weights IS working on your game sir, when you lift weights and train your first step, lift, ability to post/set screens/ hold position, etc all get better.[/QUOTE]

All that is fine and dandy but basketball is a game of improvise, I would rather have a player that lifts and work on his game.

If I had to choose one, I rather a plaeyr work on his skills. It will help with his creativity.

Let me give you an example, so you can relate to what I am saying.....

Kareem....very skillful and creative....you can count on him to score and improvise.

Dwight Howard....power lifter, benches like a mad man, squats like Superman and jumps out of the gym...no natural basketball ability.

Heck, I am more natural to the game of basketball than he is...at least I have a "go-to" move.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]If you look at a lot of international players it doesn't look as if they put much work in their physiques. Even when they get to the league they aren't as strong as they need to be.

My point was that all of it [physicality] isn't due to your race/color it's due to hard work.

My belief is that more foreigners would be able to play "NBA brand ball" if they hit the weights more.[/QUOTE]

It's ignorant not to believe it has a great deal to do with body genetics. There's plenty of weightlifting done on European basketball teams.

What about all the great white players from the US, where are they?
Doesn't white Americans lift weights as much as the black ones? Don't they put as much overall work in as the black guys?
Are the white players in the US not as good as the black ones? Why is that?
Is it because of the great inner city basketball programs that the US consists mostly of black players?
Why are the best white players in the NBA from Europe?
Where are your white American 7-footers who's got skill like Nowitzki and Pau? Surely there must be some big white players who have talent and have the time to hit the weight rooms as much as the black American players? Or doesn't the American youth development system work for white players? If so, why not?

[QUOTE=ZenMaster]It's ignorant not to believe it has a great deal to do with body genetics. There's plenty of weightlifting done on European basketball teams.

What about all the great white players from the US, where are they?
Doesn't white Americans lift weights as much as the black ones? Don't they put as much overall work in as the black guys?
Are the white players in the US not as good as the black ones? Why is that?
Is it because of the great inner city basketball programs that the US consists mostly of black players?
Why are the best white players in the NBA from Europe?
Where are your white American 7-footers who's got skill like Nowitzki and Pau? Surely there must be some big white players who have talent and have the time to hit the weight rooms as much as the black American players? Or doesn't the American youth development system work for white players? If so, why not?[/QUOTE]

it never seems to surprise me that this troll keeps bringing up race.

:facepalm

negged for racism.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster]It's ignorant not to believe it has a great deal to do with body genetics. There's plenty of weightlifting done on European basketball teams.

What about all the great white players from the US, where are they?
Doesn't white Americans lift weights as much as the black ones? Don't they put as much overall work in as the black guys?
Are the white players in the US not as good as the black ones? Why is that?
Is it because of the great inner city basketball programs that the US consists mostly of black players?
Why are the best white players in the NBA from Europe?
Where are your white American 7-footers who's got skill like Nowitzki and Pau? Surely there must be some big white players who have talent and have the time to hit the weight rooms as much as the black American players? Or doesn't the American youth development system work for white players? If so, why not?[/QUOTE]


I'm not here to argue the topic you seem to want to discuss.

My point is that Euro players don't lift as much as American ones....if they do I don't see the results on the court.

[QUOTE=TheLogo]All that is fine and dandy but basketball is a game of improvise, I would rather have a player that lifts and work on his game.

If I had to choose one, I rather a plaeyr work on his skills. It will help with his creativity.

Let me give you an example, so you can relate to what I am saying.....

Kareem....very skillful and creative....you can count on him to score and improvise.

Dwight Howard....power lifter, benches like a mad man, squats like Superman and jumps out of the gym...no natural basketball ability.

Heck, I am more natural to the game of basketball than he is...at least I have a "go-to" move.[/QUOTE]


Your opinion is your right sir.

But you are taking things too radically.

You can do both.

My point is that Euro players look like they neglect the weight room too much.




*Note, your go to move is trash by NBA standards and if you were 6'10" you would probably be a no coordination-having stiff.

Physicality only gets you so far.

So if the international teams play a better brand of ball, they are more skilled, they KNOW FIBA rules better, and have more cohesiveness as a team then why does USA win with their 'inferior brand of ball?'

Oh yeah, natural ability [only]....:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Go Getter]I'm not here to argue the topic you seem to want to discuss.

My point is that Euro players don't lift as much as American ones....if they do I don't see the results on the court.[/QUOTE]

That's because most of them are white, not because they European.
I don't see white Team USA players who are just as strong and athletic as the black Team USA players, so my question to you is, don't the white US players lift as much as black US players?

[QUOTE=TheLogo]it never seems to surprise me that this troll keeps bringing up race.

:facepalm

negged for racism.[/QUOTE]

Racism against who? White Europeans?

[QUOTE=ZenMaster]That's because most of them are white, not because they European.
I don't see white Team USA players who are just as strong and athletic as the black Team USA players, so my question to you is, don't the white US players lift as much as black US players?[/QUOTE]


They do [from my knowledge].

Athleticism is more than just running and jumping though.

Most euro players that come over here are weak by NBA standards and that can be simply solved with a good weight training program.

I'm not saying the players in question will run like Wall and jump like prime VC but the gap in athleticism would shrink.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster]Racism against who? White Europeans?[/QUOTE]

racism is racism.

stop justifying for your selective racism.

:facepalm

[QUOTE=Go Getter]They do [from my knowledge].

Athleticism is more than just running and jumping though.

Most euro players that come over here are weak by NBA standards and that can be simply solved with a good weight training program.

I'm not saying the players in question will run like Wall and jump like prime VC but the gap in athleticism would shrink.[/QUOTE]

If they do, where are all the great white US players? In the US they're going through the same training as black US players, so why are the best players in the US black? Why is there a gap in the overall athleticism between white and black US players when they are in the same system with the same training and en equal opportunity to lift weights?

This thread reminds me of the last scene in Hoosiers.

All year the boys ran that picket fence play that worked to perfection [among others].

So they finally make it to the state title game, down one, and the coach calls up the good ole play for the boys to run and every one of them kinda rolls their eyes and/or sighs as if to say, "look coach, give it to the man and we'll get out his way so we can win this thing."

There is a certain beauty and style that comes with great team effort but Team USA doesn't have the time to cultivate it.

So we do what we can, which is ride our superior individual talent.

Teams like the Lakers, Suns, and Celtics have some of the same qualities as Lithuania showed today.

The Kings, Jazz, Bulls, Pistons, etc of old had great passing and teamwork....saying that Americans don't have the skill or temperament to play team ball is absolutely false.

[QUOTE=TheLogo]racism is racism.

stop justifying for your selective racism.

:facepalm[/QUOTE]

But where have I been racists? And who have I been racist towards?

Just because you see the words black and white you play this BS card because you can't argue for a good answer to my questions.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster]If they do, where are all the great white US players? In the US they're going through the same training as black US players, so why are the best players in the US black? Why is there a gap in the overall athleticism between white and black US players when they are in the same system with the same training and en equal opportunity to lift weights?[/QUOTE]


Again, not going there with you.

I said my bit. Euro players can become more athletic if they hit the weights more.

Not trying to be mean or anything, just not in the mood for this topic.

Thank Stern and the rule changes for all of this. If they allowed the physical defense that you see in FIBA play to be introduced back into the NBA, than you'd see players forced into developing more traditional games rather than the drive/throw up shot/look for foul game that you see today.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]Again, not going there with you.

I said my bit. Euro players can become more athletic if they hit the weights more.

Not trying to be mean or anything, just not in the mood for this topic.[/QUOTE]

But this topic is the reason for Euro players not being more athletic. Not that they're European and don't work out a lot.

Being Australian we play with the Fiba rules over here and I can tell you that the game is much more interesting to watch than the NBA. Don't get me wrong the NBA is a superior competition and the international players don't have the athleticism or skill level that the Americans possess but they play as a team which is very good to watch. The Fiba game is also much more physical and their are no superstar calls, it is unheard of for a player to get more than 6-8ft's a game. Also their are so many timeouts in the NBA it just drags the game out.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]I'm not here to argue the topic you seem to want to discuss.

My point is that Euro players don't lift as much as American ones....if they do I don't see the results on the court.[/QUOTE]

But how about the European players who come to the NBA? Granted there's Manu who surprises everybody with a jam now and then, but then guys like Nowitzki, Nash (if he can be counted), Scola, Peja. I have never noticed those guys developing athletically.

The new rules were the worst thing to happen to the Nba

[QUOTE=brantonli]But how about the European players who come to the NBA? Granted there's Manu who surprises everybody with a jam now and then, but then guys like Nowitzki, Nash (if he can be counted), Scola, Peja. I have never noticed those guys developing athletically.[/QUOTE]

Dirk has developed quite a bit as an athlete since coming to the NBA.

Maybe I didn't word it correctly but idk.

Not saying that they would be as or more athletic I said it would help and that players like AI, D. Rose, and RW put in hours in the weight room which is a big part of their athleticism, it isn't all gifted.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]

The thing is in my mind is that some people don't like watching young, talented, and brazen young black men play ball.

[/QUOTE]

Do you seriously make everything a black and white thing?

[QUOTE=brantonli]But how about the European players who come to the NBA? Granted there's Manu who surprises everybody with a jam now and then, but then guys like Nowitzki, Nash (if he can be counted), Scola, Peja. I have never noticed those guys developing athletically.[/QUOTE]
Because they never really tried to. Look at a guy like Robertas Javtokas, who obviously does work on his size and athleticism. Anybody can get more athletic and change their physique if they put the work in. People act like black people come out the womb with 40 inch verticals or something.
[img]http://www.eurocupbasketball.com/rs/22317/7dd1e5a9-6d1e-44ba-805c-0858188b732f/d0a/filename/robertas-javtokas-bc-khimki.jpg[/img]

Or look at what Skita did to his body in one offseason, 215 to 240
[img]http://www.nba.com/media/nuggets/tskitishvili_254_021027.jpg[/img]

[img]http://content.draftexpress.com/gallery/General/1181884921.jpg[/img]

Even this kat, at 52, did it (P90X)
[img]http://www.accelerate-weight-loss.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/before-afterMay2010.png[/img]

[QUOTE=plowking]Do you seriously make everything a black and white thing?[/QUOTE]
No, I'm just stating a point....you're making it that way.

If you haven't noticed I have been trying not to join a racial debate.

Some of my HS pals would rather watch an IN HS basketball game (over an NBA one) featuring four passes before a shot, no frills, no dunks, and if there are any brothers on the court they don't look or act like a young AI if you know what I mean.

That's not racist and I don't believe people that find a team full spoiled, brazen, gifted Negros less appealing than a fundamentally sound, bland, and heady Euros are racist either.

You made it a race issue.

I said "some people might not like."

"It" could be for a myriad of reasons, race is not the first thing that came to mind actually.

Who on the current team "looks or acts like a young AI?" :oldlol:

The difference between us and the other teams in the tournament is two
1) The international game is different, and emphasizes shooting and spreading the floor. It's been a long time since american basketball emphasized shooting. That hurts. We don't play that style. If we were having an NBA rules tournament we'd cruise.
2) We throw together our team on a whim. These European teams have guys who have come up playing together on national teams for years upon years. if you don't think that's a big deal you clearly never played any ball that was even remotely semi-competitive.

That's all.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]No, I'm just stating a point....you're making it that way.

If you haven't noticed I have been trying not to join a racial debate.

Some of my HS pals would rather watch an IN HS basketball game featuring four passes before a shot, no frills, no dunks, and if there are any brothers on the court they don't look or act like a young AI if you know what I mean.

That's not racist and I don't believe people that find a team full spoiled, brazen, gifted Negros less appealing than a fundamentally sound, bland, and heady Euros are racist either.

You made it a race issue.

I said "some people might not like."

"It" could be for a myriad of reasons, race is not the first thing that came to mind actually.[/QUOTE]

Whatever man.

It's exactly people like you that keep these racial boundaries going far into the future by spreading such talk to younger generations.

If it's not a race issue, don't mention race. You were the first to do so, and you constantly do this in damn near every thread. "It's not racist, but it's a fact" bullshit that you pull is tired and played out. Get the notion out of your head.
Some people honestly couldn't give a rats ass about a persons color where as you seem to always find reason to investigate.

[QUOTE=50inchvertical]Who on the current team "looks or acts like a young AI?" :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Where did you get that from?

You missed my point--it was about perception.

[QUOTE=plowking]Whatever man.

It's exactly people like you that keep these racial boundaries going far into the future by spreading such talk to younger generations.

If it's not a race issue, don't mention race. You were the first to do so, and you constantly do this in damn near every thread. "It's not racist, but it's a fact" bullshit that you pull is tired and played out. Get the notion out of your head.
Some people honestly couldn't give a rats ass about a persons color where as you seem to always find reason to investigate.[/QUOTE]

He's Al Sharpton version2.