Defensive Player of The Year 1955-1982

[b]1982[/B]
[B]Candidates:[/B] Bobby Jones, Caldwell Jones, Dennis Johnson, Michael Cooper
[B]Winner:[/b] Michael Cooper
[B]Explanation:[/B] He was the key defensive player on the leagues best team. He guarded Bird and Erving, the best players on his team’s two greatest rivals. He finished higher in the MVP voting than any other candidate on this list and had the worst stats of anyone.

[B]1981[/B]
Candidates: Dennis Johnson, Bobby Jones, Michael Ray Richardson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
[B]Winner:[/B] Dennis Johnson
[B]Explanation:[/B] In his first season in Phoenix, the Suns already good defensive became the leagues best while finishing with the best record in the west. Johnson was selected to the All-NBA 1st Team and made his third straight all-defensive first team.

[IMG]http://www.nba.com/suns/images/allcentury/JohnsonD.jpg[/IMG]

[B]1980[/B]
[B]Candidates:[/B] Dennis Johnson, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bobby Jones, Dan Roundfield
[B]Winner:[/B] Bobby Jones
[B]Explanation:[/B] A real toss up between Kareem, Jones and Johnson; each the best at their respective position. The fact that Kareem just got it the year prior and that he had slipped noticeably defensively (though still very good) hurts him. Dennis Johnson is still very young and even coming off the NBA title, I still think this one is more likely to go to Bobby Jones, so I pick him.

[B]1979[/B]
[B]Candidates:[/B] Bobby Jones, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Dennis Johnson, Moses Malone
[B]Winner: [/B]Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
[B]Explanation: [/B]Kareem was still rebounding at a high level (12.8/gm) in 1979 and he led the league four blocks per game. The Lakers played without a true power forward and were still among the top half defensively. Count Moses out because Houston sucked defensively despite his 17+ rpg. Dennis Johnson was just getting established following the 1978 Finals. Bobby Jones is close, making an impact in his first season in Philadelphia, but I’m going with Kareem here.

[CENTER][IMG]http://i.cdn.turner.com/sivault/multimedia/photo_gallery/0806/nba.all.time.playoff.defenders/images/bobby-jones.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

[B]1978[/B]
[B]Candidates:[/B] Bobby Jones, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Dennis Johnson, Moses Malone
[B]Winner: [/B]Bobby Jones
[B]Explanation:[/B] Jones averages 2 blocks and 2 steals per game playing an NBA career high 33 minutes per game, averages a career best 9 rebounds per game and leads the league in FG% to boot. He could have got it the year before, but Walton’s double up was too significant. His consistency wins out over Walton who would break down late in his MVP season. (Note: the more I look at this year the more I want co-DMVPS, Walton was so good)

[B]1977[/B]
[B]Candidates:[/B] Bobby Jones, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, Bill Walton, Don Buse
[B]Winner:[/B] Bill Walton
[B]Explanation:[/B] They gave Kareem the MVP which almost certainly means Walton gets the defensive player of the year. Walton leads the league in rebounding and blocked shots and Portland eventually wins the NBA title. Bobby Jones averages over 2 blocks and 2 steals per game and somehow probably finishes third this season in the voting.
[CENTER]
[IMG]http://cache2.asset-cache.net/xc/81801604.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548A43A160D3A1B7F50DB420DDC0B0BEB293FDE7D7939209071[/IMG][/CENTER]

[B]1976
[B]Candidates:[/B][/B] Dave Cowens, John Havlicek, Norm Van Lier, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
[B]Winner:[/b] Dave Cowens
[B]Explanation:[/B]Had originally gone with Kareem here because of the shot blocking prowess and the fact that he hadn't yet developed his slacker reputation in transition. However now I'm going with Cowens. Cowens was not a great on ball defender, but his team defense was way ahead of the times. His rotations are fantastic and he is the ultimate give up the body superstar. The Celtics won with defense and balanced scoring and Cowens was the anchor on both ends.

[B]1975[/B]
[B]Candidates:[/B] Walt Frazier, Jerry Sloan, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, John Havlicek
[B]Winner:[/B] Jerry Sloan
[B]Explanation:[/B] The Bulls were at the peak and end of their run and Sloan was the foremost defensive star on a great defensive team. He was second on the team averaging seven rebounds per game as a guard and averaged 2.2 steals. Jabbar and Frazier’s teams were not at the same level and their impact was not significantly greater, if greater at all.

[CENTER][IMG]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Lew%20Alcindor/jabbarbucks.jpg[/IMG][/CENTER]

[B]1974
Candidates:[/B] Dave DeBusschere, Norm Van Lier, Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, John Havlicek
[B]Winner: [/B]Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
[B]Explanation: [/B]The centerpiece to one of the leagues best defensive teams, Kareem averaged 3.5 blocks and the Bucks advanced to the NBA Finals. The other players on the list had a lot of help with great defensive players around them, Jabbar was the clear leader with a young Dandridge offering some support and an aging Oscar relying on guile.

[B]1973[/B]
[B]Candidates: [/B]Wilt Chamberlain, Nate Thurmond, Walt Frazier, Dave DeBusschere, John Havlicek
[B]Winner:[/B] Nate Thurmond
[B]Explanation:[/B] As great as Wilt was defensively, even in his final year, Thurmond was a monster and what he did in the playoffs solidifies this as one of his finest seasons.

[B]1972
Candidates: [/B]Wilt Chamberlain, Dave DeBusschere, John Havlicek, Nate Thurmond
[B]Winner:[/B] Wilt Chamberlain
[B]Explanation: [/B]Wilt plays like Russell for a full season the Lakers break numerous records on their way to the title. And this is when he’s past his prime. A truly great performance from Wilt that season.

[RIGHT][IMG]http://sportsmed.starwave.com/i/magazine/new/dave_debusschere_a.jpg[/IMG][/RIGHT]

[B]1971
Candidates: [/B]Walt Frazier, Dave DeBusschere, Jerry West, Nate Thurmond, Wilt Chamberlain
[B]Winner: [/B]Dave DeBusschere
[B]Explanation:[/B] He and Frazier are interchangeable in these two seasons. They were the top one-two punch in the league on the top defensive team once again.

[CENTER][IMG]http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/81345788.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA548182B72BE48BAA0FEA2EB1B50AF5CAE78AFA2E0B667182AC5[/IMG][/CENTER]

[B]1970
Candidates:[/B] Walt Frazier, Willis Reed, Dave DeBusschere, Jerry West, Nate Thurmond
[B]Winner:[/B] Walt Frazier
[B]Explanation:[/B] Had to be a Knick, they were clearly the best defensive team post Boston and they had a great defensive line-up. DeBusschere and Frazier were the stars covering the opponents best forward and guard respectively. Frazier, the more established player probably gets the nod over New York newcomer DeBusschere.

[B]1969
Candidates:[/B] Bill Russell, Walt Frazier, Nate Thurmond
[B]Winner:[/B] Bill Russell
[B]Explanation:[/B] Russell actually elevated his defensive play in 1969 from the previous season, focusing more energy on that than he had in a number of years. Boston repeats as Champion as Russell raises his rebound average and overcomes Willis Reed and Wilt en route to the title. Thurmond is a close second and probably wins it if the Warriors are a little better.

[B]1968
Candidates:[/B] Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Jerry West
[B]Winner:[/B] Wilt Chamberlain
[B]Explanation:[/B] Russell’s worst season and one of Wilt’s finest until game five of the Eastern Finals. Still this is Wilt’s award again as he just played at the highest level of anyone in the league on both ends.

[IMG]http://www.nba.com/media/encyclopedia/chamberlain67_350.jpg[/IMG]

[B]1967
Candidates:[/B] Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Nate Thurmond
[B]Winner:[/B] Wilt Chamberlain
[B]Explanation:[/B] Wilt finally wins the award during the Sixers dream season. Wilt posted 24 rebounds per game and a career low for field goal attempts expending more energy than ever on the defensive end.

[B]1966
Candidates:[/B] Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell
[B]Winner:[/B] Bill Russell
[B]Explanation:[/B] Russell hangs on here over Wilt who is still not quite getting the defensive credit he deserves. Russell’s Celtics are again the leagues top defensive team and the World Champions.

[B]1965
Candidates:[/B] Bill Russell, KC Jones, Tom Sanders
[B]Winner:[/B] Bill Russell
[B]Explanation:[/B] Really the only candidate is Russell as the Celtics were the leagues premier defensive team. Wilt was traded midseason and the Warriors bombed. The Hawks had a strong defensive frontline with Pettit, Zelmo Beaty and Bill Bridges all averaging double figure rebounds but no stand out. Jerry West, along with KC Jones were the premier defensive guards.

[IMG]http://www.blackpast.org/files/blackpast_images/Bill_Russell__From_ESPN_Website_.jpg[/IMG]

[B]1964
Candidates:[/B] Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, KC Jones, Tom Sanders
[B]Winner:[/B] Bill Russell
[B]Explanation:[/B] The Celtics continue their monopoly of the leagues best defensive players and continue to have the leagues top rated defense. The Warriors played slow down ball, mimicking the Celtics but without quite as much success. Wilt’s finest defensive season to date, but not enough to unseat Russell.

[B]1963
Candidates:[/B] Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, KC Jones
[B]Winner: [/B]Bill Russell
[B]Explanation:[/B] KC Jones and Tom Sanders develop their reputations as defensive game changers further, but Wilt and Russell are still way out ahead. Wilt’s team struggles and Russell easily takes another award.

[B]1962
Candidates:[/B] Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell
[B]Winner:[/B] Bill Russell
[B]Explanation:[/B] There are only two guys that are altering the game so greatly. Wilt and Russell and Russell is wholly focused on defense and winning.

[IMG]http://www.achievement.org/achievers/rus0/photos/rus0-012a.gif[/IMG]

[B]1961
Candidates:[/B] Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Bob Pettit
[B]Winner:[/B] Bill Russell
[B]Explanation:[/B] The anchors of the top three defenses in the game. Pettit isn’t blocking shots or rebounding like the other two so count him out. Russell takes it by a slightly larger margin than the year before.

[B]1960
Candidates:[/B] Wilt Chamberlain, Bill Russell, Bob Pettit
[B]Winner:[/B] Bill Russell
[B]Explanation:[/B] Rookie Wilt gets a number of votes as people want to see someone else win it and in the media they don’t hate Wilt yet. Russell wins it again though as the Celtics go back-to-back.

[B]1959
Candidates:[/B] Bill Russell, Bob Pettit, Tom Gola
[B]Winner:[/B] Bill Russell
[B]Explanation:[/B] Pettit’s peak as a defender begins and Tom Gola has his best season as a pro proving the one player capable of contending with Elgin Baylor from the corners. Still Russell is the dynamic force to be reckoned with and gets the third straight award.

[B]1958
Candidates:[/B] Bill Russell, Maurice Stokes, Slater Martin
[B]Winner: [/B]Bill Russell
[B]Explanation:[/B] By his second season the league had fully come to appreciate and/or fear what Russell brought to the table even if they didn’t understand it. Now teams were trying to figure out what to do next.

[B]1957
Candidates:[/B] Bill Russell, Maurice Stokes, Slater Martin
[B]Winner:[/B] Bill Russell
[B]Explanation:[/B] Russell enters the league and the game is changed for ever. Defensive reaches a whole new level with Russell blocking shots and starting fast breaks. Stokes and Hwaks guard Slater Martin, the only play who troubled Cousy according to many accounts are the best forward and guard defensively during this season.

[IMG]http://www.findagrave.com/photos250/photos/2006/95/7792486_114437126022.jpg[/IMG]

[B]1956
Candidates:[/B] Maurice Stokes, Dolph Schayes, Bob Pettit
[B]Winner:[/B] Maurice Stokes
[B]Explanation:[/B] The Royals were a bead team because they couldn’t shoot, but Stokes and player coach Bobby Wanzer formed a great defensive combo that made life tough on opponents. Stokes pure athleticism shocked the league, some estimate he averaged 5 blocks and 5 steals in his three seasons making athletic plays left and right that while common today, were unheard of then.

[B]1955[/B]
[B]Candidates:[/B] Earl Lloyd, Paul Seymour, Bob Pettit, Larry Foust, Red Rocha
[B]Winner: [/B]Earl Lloyd
[B]Explanation:[/B] I've changed this one from Dolph Schayes for two reasons, I read a book about the '55 Nationals and I got to see some game footage from the '55 Finals. (Also credit to Will C, for correctly calling this one out) My new choice is his Royals teammate Earl Lloyd who was charged with guarding George Yardley or Mel Hutchins (the Pistons best scores) and has a reputation as a defensive forward and enforcer. The Nationals 4-man front court rotation was, according to Red Kerr, built around he and Schayes on offense and Lloyd and Rocha on defense.

Again, great thread and it leads to the question; Do you think it is coincidence or conspriracy that the league started tallying blocks the exact season [I]after[/I] Chamberlain retired?

I've never thought it was a conspiracy. Are there those who do?

Great list G.O.A.T

The more I study Wilt's career, the more I am inclined to rank his '72 season among not just his best, but among the best ever. IMHO, he played like a more efficient and prime Russell. And he, like Russell was throughout his career, was exceptionally clutch in the post-season.

The rest of your list speaks for itself. The greatest defensive player ever...Russell. And as much as I hate to use this phrase...it does apply here..."and it isn't close."

[QUOTE=Manute for Ever!]Again, great thread and it leads to the question; Do you think it is coincidence or conspriracy that the league started tallying blocks the exact season [I]after[/I] Chamberlain retired?[/QUOTE]
They didn't wanna show Wilt's dominance?

Great thread! Awesome job. I may have to borrow this for another forum.

I would love to see a similar thread about the Finals MVP from '55-'68.

[QUOTE=jlip]Great thread! Awesome job. I may have to borrow this for another forum.

[B]I would love to see a similar thread about the Finals MVP from '55-'68[/B].[/QUOTE]

Schayes in '55, Arizin in '56, Pettit in '58, Wilt in '67, perhaps Havlicek in '69 (West won it), and probably Russell every other year.

[QUOTE=jlauber]Schayes in '55, Arizin in '56, Pettit in '58, Wilt in '67, perhaps Havlicek in '69 (West won it), and probably Russell every other year.[/QUOTE]

Do you think that it was a possibility of Hondo squeaking out the '68 Finals MVP also?

[QUOTE=jlip]Great thread! Awesome job. I may have to borrow this for another forum.
[B]
I would love to see a similar thread about the Finals MVP from '55-'68[/B].[/QUOTE]


Here's my analysis on this

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157369[/url]

Excellent thread G.O.A.T.
:applause:


I think you have done a great job. There might be a few years I disagree with, like Russell in 57, not because of his ability, but injuries, but overall it's a very strong and accurate representation of what would have happen in the NBA if the DPOY award existed. Really would change the perception of some players like Russell and Chamberlain as well on All-Time rankings when people actually realize how great their work has been in the NBA.


In summary, great analysis and accurate conclusions. I hope you will be putting this and your All-Defensive team analysis in your book as well.

[QUOTE=Gifted Mind]Here's my analysis on this

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=157369[/url][/QUOTE]

Just read it. Great work, man. I find it amazing how despite his alleged offensive limitations, when it mattered most, Russell would often come up with 20-30 point games often even leading his team in scoring.

[QUOTE=Gifted Mind]Excellent thread G.O.A.T.
:applause:


I think you have done a great job. There might be a few years I disagree with, like Russell in 57, not because of his ability, but injuries[/QUOTE]

Russell wasn't injured in '57. He was busy leading the U.S. Olympic men's basketball team to the gold medal by the largest margin of victory in Olympic history.

[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]Russell wasn't injured in '57. He was busy leading the U.S. Olympic men's basketball team to the gold medal by the largest margin of victory in Olympic history.[/QUOTE]

I'm sorry I said injured. But looking through all the DPOYs, the lowest games a player played while winning DPOY was 68. Bill Russell played just 48. While I agree he was the best defensive player that season, I don't agree that he would actually be voted the winner of the award due to the number of games he played.

[QUOTE=jlip]Just read it. Great work, man. I find it amazing how despite his alleged offensive limitations, when it mattered most, Russell would often come up with 20-30 point games often even leading his team in scoring.[/QUOTE]

He had 30-40 and 30-38 playoff games, as well. In fact, Regul8r posted a slew of his great playoff games. He also had a sensational 18 ppg, 29 rpg, .702 FG% (yes, .702) series in the '65 Finals. And in the '66 Finals, he LED Boston in scoring at 23.6 ppg.

Regul8r also posted several links which indicate that Russell's Celtics had multiple teams that were among the best ever in terms of defensive domination. I was very fascinated by one of those team's holding the Royals, who had had averaged 114 ppg, to 93 ppg in a playoff series. His data also indicated that those great Celtic teams were also among the greatest ever in points per 100 possessions.

As more-and-more of these defensive statistical analysis' are released perhaps the Jordan Generation will have a better appreciation of just how great Russell's impact was.

I never really knew whether Pettit was a good defender or not. I'd be interested in learning more about him, though I really don't think there is a way to.

[QUOTE=G.O.A.T]I've never thought it was a conspiracy. Are there those who do?[/QUOTE]

Yeah, there are. In this day and age there is no such thing as coincidence anymore, only conspiracy. Personally, I believe the recording of blocks was more of a Cause and Effect situation.

[QUOTE=jlauber]He had 30-40 and 30-38 playoff games, as well. In fact, Regul8r posted a slew of his great playoff games. He also had a sensational 18 ppg, 29 rpg, .702 FG% (yes, .702) series in the '65 Finals. And in the '66 Finals, he LED Boston in scoring at 23.6 ppg.

Regul8r also posted several links which indicate that Russell's Celtics had multiple teams that were among the best ever in terms of defensive domination. I was very fascinated by one of those team's holding the Royals, who had had averaged 114 ppg, to 93 ppg in a playoff series. His data also indicated that those great Celtic teams were also among the greatest ever in points per 100 possessions.

As more-and-more of these defensive statistical analysis' are released perhaps the Jordan Generation will have a better appreciation of just how great Russell's impact was.[/QUOTE]

Do you have a link to Regul8r's thread? I don't think that I have "thread searching" privileges yet because of my limited number of posts.

[QUOTE=jlip]Do you have a link to Regul8r's thread? I don't think that I have "thread searching" privileges yet because of my limited number of posts.[/QUOTE]

I wish I did. It was in a Russell-GOAT thread awhile back. Perhaps he will chime in again.

Thanks to everyone for their responses, I really like looking back at things like this that can help unify eras. A lot of fans, especially the younger or more casual have a natural perception that the modern era is supreme. And while it may be, it's no more significant in it's time than any that's come before it. The present will always be king within itself. The past is easy to overlook as it is unchanging and never revolutionary in retrospect. The future however is an unknown and because of this, the assumption of the here and now as the pinnacle is proven unfounded.

[QUOTE=Gifted Mind]Excellent thread G.O.A.T.
:applause:

I think you have done a great job. There might be a few years I disagree with, like Russell in 57, not because of his ability, but injuries, but overall it's a very strong and accurate representation of what would have happen in the NBA if the DPOY award existed. Really would change the perception of some players like Russell and Chamberlain as well on All-Time rankings when people actually realize how great their work has been in the NBA.

In summary, great analysis and accurate conclusions. I hope you will be putting this and your All-Defensive team analysis in your book as well.[/QUOTE]

As always I appreciate your input. You and GP_20 have the best threads of this type on the site, and like you this is the type of stuff I enjoy reading and talking about.

Be curious to hear which years you have a different opinion on, this is a work in progress to be sure. I feel really bad that I couldn't find a year to give Nate Thurmond, Hondo or West the award, but I just can't see it based on the team and individual stats available coupled with anything and everything I could find to read about the era.

great thread !! repped !!

[QUOTE=Manute for Ever!]Yeah, there are. In this day and age there is no such thing as coincidence anymore, only conspiracy. Personally, I believe the recording of blocks was more of a Cause and Effect situation.[/QUOTE]

Care to elaborate, you've piqued my interest

Great piece.

[QUOTE=magnax1]I never really knew whether Pettit was a good defender or not. I'd be interested in learning more about him, though I really don't think there is a way to.[/QUOTE]

Pettit was a good defender in terms of effort and controlling the defensive back board. I've never seen it written or said he was a shot blocker or a lock down guy, but team mates like Cliff Hagan and Slater Martin are quoted as saying Bob was big on working hard on defense and demanding that of his teammates.

Pettit's stroy is a very interesting one, I recommend you use the SI vault and google videos to look into if you're interested. Despite his career being 50+ years old, there is a lot out there.

Bumping an excellent thread.

:applause:

Your blatant homerism for the celtics is disguisting

other than that good list

I wanna read over and respond, but I have to immediately take issue with KAJ.


I obviously haven't seen the majority of the regular season games, but I've seen plenty of old games and Kareem is hardly a great defensive player, much less elite. Outside of Milwaukee. He was a lazy ass on defense and Chamberlain was right in saying it was difficult to win without a center who plays on both sides of the ball. Kareem did not do that.

Underrated thread.

I don't think there is anyway Kareem wins DPOY in 1976 & 1979. I would probably go with Cowens in '76 & DJ or Jones in '79. Lakers were average defensively those years.

Excellent article, but...

[QUOTE=G.O.A.T][B]1955[/B]
[B]Candidates:[/B] Dolph Schayes, Paul Seymour, Bob Pettit, Larry Foust
[B]Winner: [/B]Dolph Schayes
[B]Explanation:[/B] The Nationals won with defense and while any of the five players from this team I selected as all-defensive would be a worthy candidate, but it was Schayes who was most crucial. He provided a dynamic defender who could guard the 3,4 or 5 and allow the Nats to juggle their front line with Red Kerr and forwards Earl Lloyd and Red Rocha. Plus he corralled the rebounds on the missed shots the Nats forced. An offensive force on the leagues best defensive team, I’d give him the nod in ’55.[/QUOTE]

Dolph Schayes is a horrendous choice for 1955 Defensive Player of the Year.

In his own words:

"[B]I wasn't supposed to play defense.[/B] The teams back then were categorized in certain ways. There was a center, a passing guard, a shooting guard, a scoring forward, and a defensive forward. I happened to be the offensive forward, so I would always play against the defensive forward and he couldn't score. So I was able to kind of free-lance. I was very fortunate in that respect because it really helped my rebounding a great deal. [B]I never boxed out.[/B] I don't teach it now because I never did it. So I would play the defensive forward, he would never get the ball, always passing off to the offensive forward, who would do the scoring. So I was always able to leave him and help rebound."

And there's more:

"[B]In those rare instances where I had to play defense, I really didn't do a very good job.[/B] I'd hold my man to 30 points a game, which of course made [coach Al] Cervi very angry... [B]Cervi wanted me to play more defense.[/B]"

Good job GOAT, i just cant stop getting mindboggled about how many DPOYs/FMVPs Russell could had... may not be the most talented/skilled player ever but his accolades are hypothetically unmatched and will never be surpassed...

[QUOTE=pauk]Good job GOAT, i just cant stop getting mindboggled about how many DPOYs/FMVPs Russell could had... [B]may not be the most talented[/B]/skilled player ever but his accolades are hypothetically unmatched and will never be surpassed...[/QUOTE]

Huh?

[QUOTE=fpliii]Huh?[/QUOTE]

He was very talented... but the most talented?

No Sir sid moncrief in 1981 and 1982, Even as a candidate?

Ofcourse this thread gets no play but the thread about Kobe's tweet has 40 pages

Made a few changes and wanted to open this one back up for discussion...


[QUOTE=WillC]Excellent article, but...

Dolph Schayes is a horrendous choice for 1955 Defensive Player of the Year.

In his own words:

"[B]I wasn't supposed to play defense.[/B] The teams back then were categorized in certain ways. There was a center, a passing guard, a shooting guard, a scoring forward, and a defensive forward. I happened to be the offensive forward, so I would always play against the defensive forward and he couldn't score. So I was able to kind of free-lance. I was very fortunate in that respect because it really helped my rebounding a great deal. [B]I never boxed out.[/B] I don't teach it now because I never did it. So I would play the defensive forward, he would never get the ball, always passing off to the offensive forward, who would do the scoring. So I was always able to leave him and help rebound."

And there's more:

"[B]In those rare instances where I had to play defense, I really didn't do a very good job.[/B] I'd hold my man to 30 points a game, which of course made [coach Al] Cervi very angry... [B]Cervi wanted me to play more defense.[/B]"[/QUOTE]

While I think the quotes are largely Schayes being humble, as is his nature, I am going to agree that Schayes does not deserve the award in 1955. I went on here to make some changes and figured I owed you credit for catching this before I did.

[QUOTE=michaelray]No Sir sid moncrief in 1981 and 1982, Even as a candidate?[/QUOTE]

1982 he was the third best defensive guard at best behind Dj and Cooper.

Hang on OP. Let me get my dad. He might have interest in all this.

[QUOTE=LBJFTW]Hang on OP. Let me get my dad. He might have interest in all this.[/QUOTE]

Why does your generation embrace ignorance like it's a good trait?

Still waiting on Regul8r coming in here and linking that Russell thread :D

So Bill Russell would have had like 10 DPOY and 7 FMVPs, if they had been handed out back then. Might have helped his GOAT case.

[QUOTE=G.O.A.T]Why does your generation embrace ignorance like it's a good trait?[/QUOTE]
It's not just ignorance, it's also bitterness masquerading as ignorance.

Bitterness is envy that has forgotten itself. And this poster is one of the most bitter on the boards.

Btw, excellent thread. Great job in compiling the list. I think your posts, especially your best OPs, organized and cleaned up, would make a great book. :cheers: