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[quote]Ask most GMs, coaches, players or fans to name that single player throughout the course of NBA history that they would choose to take the last second shot in a playoff game, and the likely consensus would be Michael Jordan.
No single player has recorded more iconic moments.
so you are telling me, in all of Jordan's career. he has only take 16?
There is no way in God's earth those stats for Jordan are right.
Lebron already has 11 attempts and Kobe has 23.
There is no way possibly Jordan would only have 16 attempt through out his career in the last 24 seconds of a one possession game.
That statistics is wrong, period.
[QUOTE=Hulk Hogan]so you are telling me, in all of Jordan's career. he has only take 16?
GTFO! Lebron already has 11 attempts, kobe has 23.
Those stats are obviously wrong![/QUOTE]
man i was thinking the same damn thing. In Jordan's whole storied career he's only taken 16......that can't be right.....there has to be some missing.
[QUOTE=Christofire]man i was thinking the same damn thing. In Jordan whole storied career he's only taken 16......that can't be right.....i there has to be some missing.[/QUOTE]
Kobe's played in 208 playoff games, Jordan 179. That's part of it. Another reason is that Kobe will force up a game winning FGA no matter how bad it is - that Jordan pass to Kerr in game 6 of the '97 Finals would have been an awful forced 20 footer over a double team if it was Kobe.
[QUOTE=che guevara]Kobe's played in 208 playoff games, Jordan 179. That's part of it. Another reason is that Kobe will force up a game winning FGA no matter how bad it is - that Jordan pass to Kerr in game 6 of the '97 Finals would have been an awful forced 20 footer over a double team if it was Kobe.[/QUOTE]
There was also an article that has been famously passed around that claims Jordan has only attempted 50 game winners in his career and made 25 of them.
Do you also believe that? :lol
Lebron already has about 75 in 8 years.
Kobe about 118 in 14 years.
Jordan played how many years and had what? 50? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Don't let your love for mj cloud your judgment about what's true and what's straight up deception! :oldlol:
Surprisingly unbiased list....
Only "mistake" was that he counted 2 game winners in a SINGLE game, which is lame....you can't do that (bulls vs cavs game 5, 1989)
So taking that one out...Jordan is 50% in playoff game winners....BALLER!!!
[QUOTE=Hulk Hogan]There was also an article that has been famously passed around that claims Jordan has only attempted 50 game winners in his career and made 25 of them.
Do you also believe that? :lol
Lebron already has about 75 in 8 years.
Kobe about 118 in 14 years.
Jordan played how many years and had what? 50? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
Don't let your love for mj cloud your judgment about what's true and what's straight up deception! :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
this is fishy man......Jordan was a clutch God...we aint disputing that, but if you dont have the numbers just sya you dont have the numbers, dont just throw out the numbers you think you have. i find it hard to believe that Jordan only attempted 16 games winners in his illustrious career.
[QUOTE=nnn123]Surprisingly unbiased list....
Only "mistake" was that he counted 2 game winners in a SINGLE game, which is lame....you can't do that (bulls vs cavs game 5, 1989)
So taking that one out...Jordan is 50% in playoff game winners....BALLER!!![/QUOTE]
If you do that, you have to remove one of Kobe's and one of Lebron's, too.
[QUOTE=Christofire]this is fishy man......Jordan was a clutch God...we aint disputed that, but if you dont have the numbers just sya you dont have the numbers, dont just throw out the numbers you think you have. i find it hard to believe that Jordan only attempted 16 games winners in his illustrious career.[/QUOTE]
We're talking about playoff game winners man. 16 game winners in 179 total playoff games is a pretty good number. I can't think of any game winners that he's missing, and I know a lot about Jordan's career
I looked at this few months ago and that's what I had too for his playoff career (8/15, minus double counting "potential game winner" wtf), so the numbers are right here.
[QUOTE=Hulk Hogan]
[B]Lebron already has about 75 in 8 years.
Kobe about 118 in 14 years.
Jordan played how many years and had what? 50?[/B] :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
[/QUOTE]
that is odd
[QUOTE=Colby Brian]that is odd[/QUOTE]
There is nothing odd about Hulk Hogan having no critical thinking skills.
[QUOTE=BEAST Griffin]There is nothing odd about Hulk Hogan having no critical thinking skills.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Michael Jordan game winning shot attempts was 33 out of 58, which is a 56.9% shooting percentage, while Kobe has attempted more game winners, according to the facts[/QUOTE]
[url]http://hoopsapedia.webs.com/kobevsjordan.htm[/url]
By - bruceblitz or brucebi.tch
jordan has attempted 58 GW shots, kobe 118, wtf?
they have played the same amount of games almaost and kobes has 2X more, somethings weird about that
Damn Jordan killed Kobe in every stat haha, Jordan is a motha fukka
Tell em why you mad Kobe fans....
[B][QUOTE]Bryant is 6/23 (26.1%). [/QUOTE][/B]
[url]http://chasing23.com/the-myth-of-playoff-kobe/[/url]
A guy in the comments is right. This whole "closer" etc. talk about Kobe in recent years just started because he has not been the best player in the game. The hype machine needed oil.
:oldlol:
[QUOTE=Colby Brian]jordan has attempted 58 GW shots, kobe 118, wtf?
they have played the same amount of games almaost and kobes has 2X more, somethings weird about that[/QUOTE]
Kobe is a ball hog in those situations, that's why. He'll chuck over two defenders rather than pass to an open teammate or make a smart play.
[QUOTE=Soothing Layup]Damn Jordan killed Kobe in every stat haha, Jordan is a motha fukka[/QUOTE]
yep he did
Are you people really this dense?
Its only in the playoffs. It makes perfect sense. Kobe only has attempted 7 more.
16 for Jordan's career in the playoffs makes perfect sense.
:confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=BEAST Griffin]Kobe is a ball hog in those situations, that's why. He'll chuck over two defenders rather than pass to an open teammate or make a smart play.[/QUOTE]
ok sure, but 2X more really, really?
[QUOTE=Colby Brian]ok sure, but 2X more really, really?[/QUOTE]
I don't think those are all confirmed as the total.
However, this just shows how reckless Kobe is late in games. Maybe this is why the Lakers offense goes from 1st overall to 12the overall in these situations.
But the playoffs are where it matters most of course.
And 6/23 vs 9/16 is not a good look for old Kobe.
This is only the playoffs game winners, so it makes sense.
And Jordan did pass in a few potential game winners. But what's up with having two game winners in the same game?
Neglecting the potential game winner (lol), he is 8/15 53%.
[QUOTE=Micku]This is only the playoffs game winners, so it makes sense.
And Jordan did pass in a few potential game winners. But what's up with having two game winners in the same game?
Neglecting the potential game winner (lol), he is 8/15 53%.[/QUOTE]
That is how the stats are done. If you removed shots that tied a game or didn't officially win the game, Kobe would only have 4 makes for his career in the playoffs.
Its just how the stats are done. Its any shot in the last possession to take the lead or tie a game. That way you get a larger and more accurate sample size.
I dont see much problem with 16 shots, because author used heavy filtering: only Playoffs, max 24 secs, no FTs. Also Bulls often blowout opponents, thus less chances for "hero mode".
who cares? lets talk about the conference finals. :facepalm
:lol
are we trying to convince kobe stans with factual stats that jordan beats kobe yet again? nice try but they're in denial with kobe's pen!s in their mouths
[QUOTE=Harison]I dont see much problem with 16 shots, because author used heavy filtering: only Playoffs, max 24 secs, no FTs. [B]Also Bulls often blowout opponents, thus less chances for "hero mode".[/B][/QUOTE]
exactly, i keep bringing this point up, it was either the 08/09 or 09/10 season where kobe hit game winners 4 or 5 games in a row (or close together) and fans were cheering about how awesome kobe was. except they completely disregarded the fact that he was hitting game winners against teams that should have been blown out. a game winner against the t-wolves shouldn't even occur and if it does it shouldn't be lauded.
i have 178 of his 179 playoffs games on DVD and those numbers are correct.
also, notice that MJ and the Bulls have won every series when they have got home court advantage.
Perhaps the championship Bulls didn't find themselves in many situations where Jordan needed to take a ton of gamewinners?? :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=Colby Brian]jordan has attempted 58 GW shots, kobe 118, wtf?
they have played the same amount of games almaost and kobes has 2X more, somethings weird about that[/QUOTE]
Nothing weird about that. Chicago obv didnt play as much close games as LAL did. Thats it.
[QUOTE=bingo123]Nothing weird about that. Chicago obv didnt play as much close games as LAL did. Thats it.[/QUOTE]
Precisely, as someone said earlier last year when Kobe went off on a gamewinner spree, while impressive, the question is why do the Lakers need a bailout shot against the Timberwolves or the Bucks?
Also, it's not just about game winners, that's just one part of being clutch, it's how he would just step it up in big games. Coincidentally, that also leads to less last shot opportunities. That's what really makes Jordan the clutches ever (along with Bird)
[QUOTE=jstern]Also, it's not just about game winners, that's just one part of being clutch, it's how he would just step it up in big games.
[/QUOTE]
Bingo. Like this:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YWsgkauZb-U[/url]
THAT's clutch.
[QUOTE=nnn123]Surprisingly unbiased list....
[B]Only "mistake" was that he counted 2 game winners in a SINGLE game[/B], which is lame....you can't do that (bulls vs cavs game 5, 1989)
So taking that one out...Jordan is 50% in playoff game winners....BALLER!!![/QUOTE]
Its not a mistake, game winners are shots made within last 24 seconds, that's his criteria.....Jordan put the bulls ahead with I believe 6 seconds left, Ehlo then gets a quick easy layup to put Cavs ahead...Jordan then hits the game winner
[QUOTE=Colby Brian]jordan has attempted 58 GW shots, kobe 118, wtf?
they have played the same amount of games almaost and kobes has 2X more, somethings weird about that[/QUOTE]
its not weird, the opportunity didn't present itself as often as it has with Kobe, and after seeing the shit Kobe throws up instead of passing, may have something to do with it as well
[IMG]http://www.shakadula.com/doamhf/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Kobe-sweep-300x217.jpg[/IMG]
The problem with Jordan's "33/58" figure is that
a) Jordan hasn't hit 33 game-winning shots (I mean real game-winners, not OT baskets or "potential" game winners). The only site that has him at 33 has included some shots twice.
b) This number includes playoffs, so, if Jordan has taken 15 GW's there, this should mean that he has only tried 43 game-winners in the regular season.
c) There still hasn't surfaced any link that offers a detailed list of Jordan's GW attempts, therefore the whole "58" number is really becoming more of an urban legend than the product of some research.
d) In case people forgot, Jordan's Bulls had lots of close games in the 80's, not to mention the Wizards. Also, Kobe was hardly taking a lot of game winners back in '97 or '98 (yes, there's the whole Utah thing, but apart from that?) and the Lakers did have their own dominant periods as well. This makes the whole 115 vs 58 thing suspect.
In few words, I think Kobe's 36/115 and Jordan's 33/58 figures were taken by quoting different sources and by considering different criteria. I don't doubt Jordan has converted a better percentage of game winners, by, as far as I can tell, there hasn't been any page that justifies all these numbers combined. Oh, and Kobe hasn't hit 36 real game winners, either. It's more like 29 or 30.
[QUOTE=Psileas]The problem with Jordan's "33/58" figure is that
a) Jordan hasn't hit 33 game-winning shots (I mean real game-winners, not OT baskets or "potential" game winners). The only site that has him at 33 has included some shots twice.
b) This number includes playoffs, so, if Jordan has taken 15 GW's there, this should mean that he has only tried 43 game-winners in the regular season.
c) There still hasn't surfaced any link that offers a detailed list of Jordan's GW attempts, therefore the whole "58" number is really becoming more of an urban legend than the product of some research.
d) In case people forgot, Jordan's Bulls had lots of close games in the 80's, not to mention the Wizards. Also, Kobe was hardly taking a lot of game winners back in '97 or '98 (yes, there's the whole Utah thing, but apart from that?) and the Lakers did have their own dominant periods as well. This makes the whole 115 vs 58 thing suspect.
In few words, I think Kobe's 36/115 and Jordan's 33/58 figures were taken by quoting different sources and by considering different criteria. I don't doubt Jordan has converted a better percentage of game winners, by, as far as I can tell, there hasn't been any page that justifies all these numbers combined. Oh, and Kobe hasn't hit 36 real game winners, either. It's more like 29 or 30.[/QUOTE]
1. The stat is meant to count some things twice in the same game. For the last time:
The stat is about making a shot to win or tie a game in the last possession. Thats all. A lot of Kobe's and other players shots did not technically win the game. Kobe would have only 4 true game winners for his entire career in the playoffs.
2. The only documented things we know:
Kobe is 6/23 in the playoffs on game winners. Jordan is 9/16.
According to ESPN, Kobe makes around 33% of his game winners overall and has around 38 makes now.
We don't know about Jordan's regular season numbers. Nobody has verified the total in that one article to be correct. We do know that jordan is 9/16 in the playoffs. thats all though.
My best guess would be that Jordan has taken around 75 or so of these shots in his career, but until we have the data, its simply a guess.
Its great to finally see the playoff data though.
[QUOTE=Calabis]its not weird, the opportunity didn't present itself as often as it has with Kobe, and after seeing the shit Kobe throws up instead of passing, may have something to do with it as well[/QUOTE]
Exactly. Seen it a lot that Kobe goes into brick mode late in a game and keeps the game close and then hits a game winner, but more often than not bricks it.
But when he hits it the stans go like :bowdown: