kobe>bird

5 rings>4 rings nuff said

[QUOTE=Nick Young]5 rings>4 rings nuff said[/QUOTE]


Pippen > Kobe

Nuff said

3 MVP's > 1 MVP

nuff said.

Bird has 3 rings...

No robert horry reference yet?

There was a multiple page thread on this not too long ago and we basically agreed that we disagree and moved on i think.
Let the hilarity ensue.

Larry Bird has better stats,more MVPs,tied as FMVPs.2 more rings as sidekick can't beat that career.

[QUOTE=Papaya Petee]3 MVP's > 1 MVP

nuff said.[/QUOTE]
LOL

Paul Pierce, Chauncey Billups, and Tony Parker have finals MVP's. They are worthless and mean jack-and-shit.

[QUOTE=Droid101]LOL

Paul Pierce, Chauncey Billups, and Tony Parker have finals MVP's. They are worthless and mean jack-and-shit.[/QUOTE]

k. they dont have regular season MVPs though genius, which is what he was referring to

I agree with the OP. :applause:

In a 1 on 1 game I would say Kobe would mop the floor with Bird.

However basketball is a 5 on 5 game and Bird played 5 on 5 basketball better than almost all but around 4-5 players to ever play the game.

Give Bird 4 random players to work with and then give Kobe 4 random players to work with. I could almost guarantee you that Bird's team would win the majority of the time.

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]In a 1 on 1 game I would say Kobe would mop the floor with Bird.

However basketball is a 5 on 5 game and Bird played 5 on 5 basketball better than almost all but around 4-5 players to ever play the game.

Give Bird 4 random players to work with and then give Kobe 4 random players to work with. I could almost guarantee you that Bird's team would win the majority of the time.[/QUOTE]

failure.

If Kobe can't mop the floor with Bird, like you said, and you give them random teammates....I don't see how Bird would still win.

Scrubs and random teammates would both cancel each other out...Kobe will mop the floor with Bird.

[QUOTE=TheLogo]failure.

If Kobe can't mop the floor with Bird, like you said, and you give them random teammates....I don't see how Bird would still win.

Scrubs and random teammates would both cancel each other out...Kobe will mop the floor with Bird.[/QUOTE]
Because Bird would make his scrubs and random teammates better because that was how he played. Kobe also had the capability of making teammates better but certainly not as much and not as well as Bird did.

Bird could impact the game in more ways than Kobe could.

25.3ppg, 5.3rpg, 4.7apg on 45%
24.3ppg, 10rpg, 6.3apg on 50%

Give me the guy with less bds, less assts, and worse shooting everytime. I mean how often do you find a guy with 25-5-5...its pretty darn rare in this league.

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]Because Bird would make his scrubs and random teammates better because that was how he played. Kobe also had the capability of making teammates better but certainly not as much and not as well as Bird did.

Bird could impact the game in more ways than Kobe could.[/QUOTE]

Bird would probably play dirty and start diving on people's ankles and knees.

[QUOTE=Joey Zaza]25.3ppg, 5.3rpg, 4.7apg on 45%
24.3ppg, 10rpg, 6.3apg on 50%

Give me the guy with less bds, less assts, and worse shooting everytime. I mean how often do you find a guy with 25-5-5...its pretty darn rare in this league.[/QUOTE]
I like how facetious you are.

[QUOTE=Joey Zaza]25.3ppg, 5.3rpg, 4.7apg on 45%
24.3ppg, 10rpg, 6.3apg on 50%

Give me the guy with less bds, less assts, and worse shooting everytime. I mean how often do you find a guy with 25-5-5...its pretty darn rare in this league.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://data.whicdn.com/images/10847836/see-what-you-did-there-13_large.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Joey Zaza]25.3ppg, 5.3rpg, 4.7apg on 45%
24.3ppg, 10rpg, 6.3apg on 50%

Give me the guy with less bds, less assts, and worse shooting everytime. I mean how often do you find a guy with 25-5-5...its pretty darn rare in this league.[/QUOTE]

I agree.

I would still take Kobe because he has the intangibles.

He has hit more game winners and played more shutdown defense than Bird.

[QUOTE=Joey Zaza]25.3ppg, 5.3rpg, 4.7apg on 45%
24.3ppg, 10rpg, 6.3apg on 50%

Give me the guy with less bds, less assts, and worse shooting everytime. I mean how often do you find a guy with 25-5-5...its pretty darn rare in this league.[/QUOTE]

This.

Bird will butt rape the Rapist easily

I mean come on

3 back-2-back-2-back MVPs over Top 5 GOAT MAGIC

vs

1 consolidation MVP in 15 seasons.

3 rings as "Da Man" in Stacked Golden NBA Era of '80s

vs

2 rings.

Bird Top 5 GOAT & best SF Evvaaa easily.

"overrated" Kobe aint fit enough to lick Larry Legend's sneakers.

[IMG]http://troll.me/images/ronald-mcdonald-call/hello-*******-police-who-the-fck-keeps-releasing-the-op.jpg[/IMG]

If Larry bird had prime shaq for 8 years he'd win no less than 6 rings.

Shaq is basically a bigger more devastating versiOn of Kevin mchale. Larry never envied his team mates and would never sabotage an NBA finals to get someone traded. Ballhogging on 38% shooting Against the 04 pistons would never happen.

There are only 3 players in history I'd choose over bird, mr 38% is not one of them.

For me the top 4 perimeter players of all time are MJ, Kobe, Magic, and Bird. MJ and Kobe have the great D and athletic ability that seperates them from Magic and Bird. But Magic is a better rebounder, passer, and can play 4-5 positions. Bird is a better shooter, rebounder, and many feel a better passer. So as a player and career resume, I'm taking Kobe over Bird at this point. But if one were to say Bird, I wouldn't argue too hard.

[QUOTE=bizil]For me the top 4 perimeter players of all time are MJ, Kobe, Magic, and Bird. MJ and Kobe have the great D and athletic ability that seperates them from Magic and Bird. But Magic is a better rebounder, passer, and can play 4-5 positions. Bird is a better shooter, rebounder, and many feel a better passer. So as a player and career resume, I'm taking Kobe over Bird at this point. But if one were to say Bird, I wouldn't argue too hard.[/QUOTE]

its just so easy to gobb on Kobe knob, isn't it. Well, Kobe's a great perimeter player like Bird. But he D's it better so Kobe

He did nothing as well as Bird did it. 0. Took a ton more shots to score 1 more ppg, he didn't pass like Bird, he couldn't shoot like Bird, he couldn't board like Bird. But somehoe, he did it great like Bird.

...and this Kobe D dream that everyone has. This BS when he wants to he shuts down the other team's best player. He doesn't, he didn't, he hasn't. Its a dream - based on every now and then Kobe meeting a guy at half-court and fouling him while trying to look tough. He's not that player...and he never took a turn on Nash, Duncan, Kidd, KG, Shaq, Dirk, Amare, Melo, Deron, CP3, AI or really any of the best players of Kobe's generation.

His 1.5 spg tell the exact story of kobe's d. Its pretty average.

[QUOTE=Joey Zaza]His 1.5 spg tell the exact story of kobe's d. Its pretty average.[/QUOTE]
I guess Allen Iverson is the best defender in history then.
:facepalm

This ****ing clown. How is he not banned?

[QUOTE=Droid101]I guess Allen Iverson is the best defender in history then.
[/QUOTE]

Defensive stats do not tell the story of defense -- but in Kobe's case, 1.5 spg represents his level of defense. He is good. He can make a play, but he's not a beast or a demon. He's not Tony Allen or Bruce Bowen. For an offensive player, he's good.

[QUOTE=Droid101]This ****ing clown. How is he not banned?[/QUOTE]

Rule No.1 of Kobe fan-dom any dissent as to Kobe's greatness is met with personal insults.

[QUOTE=Joey Zaza]Defensive stats do not tell the story of defense -- but in Kobe's case, 1.5 spg represents his level of defense. He is good. He can make a play, but he's not a beast or a demon. [B][U] He's not Tony Allen or Bruce Bowen. For an offensive player, he's good.[/U][/B]
[/QUOTE]
He was back when he was Frobe in the early 2000s. Kobe still played great defense from 06-09. The 2009-2010 season was when Kobe officially stopped playing defense and when he couldn't play defense anymore.

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]He was back when he was Frobe in the early 2000s. Kobe still played great defense from 06-09. The 2009-2010 season was when Kobe officially stopped playing defense and when he couldn't play defense anymore.[/QUOTE]

If you say so - I never saw "great" defense. Offensive players seldom play "great" defense except when they are iso'd against and the world is watching them. The away from the ball, ball denial, battling for position--is not really an offensive player focus...then again fans doon't watch that either, so maybe Kobe did that great. Maybe Bird did that great too.

:facepalm [B]Bird was so much better than Bryant its not even funny

End this thread[/B]

[QUOTE=Joey Zaza]its just so easy to gobb on Kobe knob, isn't it. Well, Kobe's a great perimeter player like Bird. But he D's it better so Kobe

He did nothing as well as Bird did it. 0. Took a ton more shots to score 1 more ppg, he didn't pass like Bird, he couldn't shoot like Bird, he couldn't board like Bird. But somehoe, he did it great like Bird.

...and this Kobe D dream that everyone has. This BS when he wants to he shuts down the other team's best player. He doesn't, he didn't, he hasn't. Its a dream - based on every now and then Kobe meeting a guy at half-court and fouling him while trying to look tough. He's not that player...and he never took a turn on Nash, Duncan, Kidd, KG, Shaq, Dirk, Amare, Melo, Deron, CP3, AI or really any of the best players of Kobe's generation.

His 1.5 spg tell the exact story of kobe's d. Its pretty average.[/QUOTE]

U r insane! It's a FACT that Kobe was an elite perimeter defender. He SMOKES Bird as a one on one defender. Kobe had lockdown ability when it came to defense. I'm not saying he's better than MJ, Cooper, Bowen, Moncrief, or guys like that. But I feel Kobe was still an elite, All League defender who could defend three positons.

As far as rebounding, Bird was an SF at 6'9 230 pounds who played a lot of PF. So that's to be expected. Passing u can say Bird. But Kobe is a guy who has the vision and handles to be a great passer. Kobe can set his guys up better than Bird can off the dribble. Kobe is more than capable of playing PG. Even though Bird has point forward skills, I wouldn't play Bird at point.

As far as shooting, Bird has more range on his shot. But he's NOT a better midrange shooter than Kobe or MJ. If you are talking pure midrange shooting, Kobe, MJ, and the Iceman are guys who take a backseat to NOBODY! Bird belongs in that group has an all time great midrange shooter too. Hell Bird could be the best shooter of all time. But Bird IS NOT a better midrange shooter than Kobe. If anything you slob on Bird's knob! I'm just keeping it real and Kobe is the closest thing to MJ. MJ is better than Bird. And Kobe is close enough to MJ. So Kobe is better than Bird too. But Bird isn't far off in my book either. But MJ and Kobe can do ANYTHING Bird can do pound for pound except prolific three point shooting. And when they get hot, they can kill u from three point range.

Bird can't touch Kobe's defensive capabilities or athletic ability. Kobe's mix of skills and athletic ability enable him to do shit Bird could only dream of. Most guys with those set of skills DIDN'T have that kind of freak athletic ability. MJ was the guy to combine the two and guys like Kobe, Wade, and T Mac followed suit.

Afro Kobe's one on one defense was good.But nothing special to make a case for him over Bird.

[QUOTE=Joey Zaza]Defensive stats do not tell the story of defense -- but in Kobe's case, 1.5 spg represents his level of defense. He is good. He can make a play, but he's not a beast or a demon. He's not Tony Allen or Bruce Bowen. For an offensive player, he's good.
[/QUOTE]

Why are referencing spg when mentioning Bowen? He didn't get tons of steals or blocks but was a prolific defender. Monta Ellis gets lots of steals but mostly because he is out of position. More times than not he gets burned on D.

I see some posters on here are dissing Kobe's defense. I'm not saying he's Pip, MJ, Moncrief, Bowen, or Cooper. But Kobe was CLEARLY one of the elite perimeter defenders in the NBA. Bird was a great help defender and even made some All D teams. But he's not on Kobe's level in terms of defense. And YES it's enough to give him the edge on Bird. If a player has the ability to get 35 a night on you AND shut you down or make u work harder for offense then of course it makes a difference. It's one of the key factors that gave MJ the edge over Magic and Bird back in the day.

[QUOTE=bizil]If anything you slob on Bird's knob! I'm just keeping it real and Kobe is the closest thing to MJ. MJ is better than Bird. And Kobe is close enough to MJ. So Kobe is better than Bird too. But Bird isn't far off in my book either. But MJ and Kobe can do ANYTHING Bird can do pound for pound except prolific three point shooting. And when they get hot, they can kill u from three point range. [/QUOTE]

Bizil's whole post summed up here. Follow MJ > Bird. Kobe is close to MJ (except for being worse than him in every conceivable facet of the game) so therefore, even though their prodcution and every objective measure tells a different story, Kobe > Bird.

That, right there, is the source of all Kobe logic. Kobe is like MJ, MJ is great so Kobe is great. What's lost in translation is that while Kobe does so much like MJ, he does nothing NOTHING as well as MJ. Not even close. He's a poor fascimilie.

Kobe:
25.3 5.3 4.7 .450 w/ 1.5 spg

MJ
30.1 6.2 5.3 .497 w/ 2.3spg

Kobe had 3 great scoring seasons - MJ's AVERAGE is equal to one of them. MJ had 12 seasons scoring better than Kobe's average...and we haven't even had his decline, yet.

Bird was a weak man-to-man defender. Stop acting like he was legendary on D or some shit.

His passing,rebounding ability and tough leadership is what made him special.

[QUOTE=Nick Young]5 rings>4 rings nuff said[/QUOTE]
:lol :lol :lol

[QUOTE=Mr. I'm So Rad]Why are referencing spg when mentioning Bowen? He didn't get tons of steals or blocks but was a prolific defender. Monta Ellis gets lots of steals but mostly because he is out of position. More times than not he gets burned on D.[/QUOTE]

Well, Kobe > Bird based on defense, I am giving examples of perimeter guys whose defense made a difference and by comparison, Kobe's didn't.

Statistically, Monta is alot like Kobe w/ more stls. Thank you for the comparison

[QUOTE=Mr. I'm So Rad]Why are referencing spg when mentioning Bowen? He didn't get tons of steals or blocks but was a prolific defender. Monta Ellis gets lots of steals but mostly because he is out of position. More times than not he gets burned on D.[/QUOTE]

Great point! Steals can be misleading. A guy like Bowen plays EPIC position D. Steals involve gambling and many great steals guys were ALSO great defenders. Like MJ and Alvin Robertson. Or even Hakeem for big guys. But u have many great defenders who are known for keeping their man in front of them. And taking away certain go to moves. That is more valuable than a guy who JUST simply gambles for steals.

[QUOTE=bizil]And YES it's enough to give him the edge on Bird. If a player has the ability to get 35 a night on you AND shut you down or make u work harder for offense then of course it makes a difference.[/QUOTE]

Kobe avged 35 a night ONCE in his career. He averaged over 30 a grand total of 3 times.

..and who did he ever shut down. I've never seen a guy get shut down by Kobe. didn't "shut down" rip or AI, never shut down Nash, Francis ran wild all over him for a series.

who did this shut down happen to?

[QUOTE=Joey Zaza]Kobe avged 35 a night ONCE in his career. He averaged over 30 a grand total of 3 times.

..and who did he ever shut down. I've never seen a guy get shut down by Kobe. didn't "shut down" rip or AI, never shut down Nash, Francis ran wild all over him for a series.

who did this shut down happen to?[/QUOTE]

Just because you haven't seen it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZyLg15UIRLY"]Kobe shuts down Iverson[/URL]

Educate yourself.

[QUOTE=Joey Zaza]Kobe avged 35 a night ONCE in his career. He averaged over 30 a grand total of 3 times.

..and who did he ever shut down. I've never seen a guy get shut down by Kobe. didn't "shut down" rip or AI, never shut down Nash, Francis ran wild all over him for a series.

who did this shut down happen to?[/QUOTE]

The term "shutdown" refers to a stretch of the game or perhaps near the end of a game when a player needs to be stopped.

In today's league no one player can shutdown the other. Impossible considering how good these guys are and the intricate zone schemes.