You know LeBron James reminds me somewhat of KG

I have never denied LeBron James' consistency and his motor. It is always 100% similar to Kevin Garnett. I have always thought and I have always said that for the past few seasons that LeBron James is the most consistent player in the NBA.

I think LeBron like KG lacks this extra gear that many other all-time greats have like Dwyane Wade, Kobe Bryant, Michael Jordan, Isiah Thomas, etc.

Both of these guys get crap for being inconsistent post-season performers, yes?

LeBron definitely choked in the 2011 NBA finals but even before the 2011 NBA finals he has still gotten crap for being an inconsistent post-season performer. 2008 vs. Celtics, 2010 vs. Celtics, 2007 vs. the Spurs, and 2006 vs. the Pistons are just to name some.


Check this out.......people were talking about LeBron was playing god-like in the ECF but look at his stats in the ECF and then look at his stats from the regular season.


LeBron in the '10-'11 RS

27/8/7 with 51% shooting, 33% 3P shooting, 76% FT shooting

LeBron in the 2011 ECF

26/8/7 with 45% shooting, 39% 3P shooting, 86% FT shooting.


Just looking at those numbers did this guy do anything different from the regular season than he did against the Bulls in the ECF? The only thing I see is that he made more 3 pointers and FTs. He actually scored less ppg and he averaged the same amount of rpg and apg. His production was virtually the same, he was just more efficient in his shooting (3P and FT).

He doesn't have this extra gear, all LeBron was doing differently in that series opposed to the other 82 regular season games was making his 3s and FTs. But does it really matter since he actually averaged less ppg and shot a worse FG%? :confusedshrug:

I think because of this missing part in LeBron's game people start to interpret that he chokes frequently in the post-season. When the reality is that he nor KG don't have this extra gear that other all-time greats have.


This is not to explain his 2011 NBA finals performance because that was just clear sign of mental weakness.


This thread is basketball related......so for those of you people, specifically LeBron fans who think intangibles and mental aspect is some fairy cliche maybe you can come in and discuss this because this will be all basketball related and nothing more.

You really...really...REALLY like talking about Lebron James.

I never figured out how people who pretty much just talk about one subject keep themselves going.

I cant even talk about the people I like that much.

I think Lebron's inconsistency in the playoffs has more to do with lack of scoring skills. When his jumpshot disappears, he can't score against the best defenses in the league.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]You really...really...REALLY like talking about Lebron James.

I never figured out how people who pretty much just talk about one subject keep themselves going.

I cant even talk about the people I like that much.[/QUOTE]
If you want to know why I made this thread it is because someone brought up a great point about the differences between Wade and LeBron. I already explained LeBron in the first post how he always has a 100% motor and he doesn't have that extra gear so it appears that he is choking when he really isn't. Wade is pretty much the opposite of him. He doesn't have this 100% motor like LeBron does, Wade coasts a hell lot more than LeBron does, always has and he probably always will.

However, Wade does have this extra gear that LeBron does not have. Take the 2011 finals for example.

Wade looked like he could have destroyed that defense all series (he pretty much did) but does anyone here really think he could have done that all season to any team? Probably not and I have high doubts about that myself as a Wade fan.

Wade has this extra gear where he looks like nobody should even be on the court with him because he is on a flat out different level than everyone else, and yes that includes your boy LBJ.

You want me to summarize it? Okay...

Wade at his best is better than LeBron at his but LeBron plays closer to his best more frequently than Wade does.

I don't know about Wade having an extra gear. He averaged more ppg in the regular season then the post season. Honestly, I think I can only list something like 5 guys off the top of my head I watched live who consistently play better in the post season then the regular season. (Miller, Jordan, Hakeem ........ drawing a blank.....) and on top of that, I'd say that the majority of players end up playing worse in the post season because of the tougher competition.

when you average 27, 7 and 7 in the regular season like Lebron did it is damn hard to get much better than that unless you are MJ.

[QUOTE=magnax1]I don't know about Wade having an extra gear. He averaged more ppg in the regular season then the post season..[/QUOTE]
He also had 2 series where he scored over 26 ppg, his regular season scoring average. In the Celtics series he averaged 30 ppg and in the Finals he averaged 27 ppg and he shot 53% and 55% in those two series. So yeah I would say that is having an extra gear.

Wade appears to have an extra gear cos he mopes around half assed half the time.

[QUOTE=G-train]Wade appears to have an extra gear cos he mopes around half assed all the time.[/QUOTE]
I already said that he doesn't have this 100% motor like LeBron does. It is beneficial and detrimental to have that.

I remember people were saying that Wade just coasted through the Bulls series so he could dominate in the Finals. Lets face it Wade made EVERY correct play down the stretch in the ECF. He was clutch as well and he was there when needed. It's not a bad theory at all, not sure if I agree with it though.

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]I already said that he doesn't have this 100% motor like LeBron does. It is beneficial and detrimental to have that.

I remember people were saying that Wade just coasted through the Bulls series so he could dominate in the Finals. Lets face it Wade made EVERY correct play down the stretch in the ECF. He was clutch as well and he was there when needed. It's not a bad theory at all, not sure if I agree with it though.[/QUOTE]

well......... if lebron didnt have that 100% motor.........

they would not been in the Finals..........

but i agree lebron needs to learn how to gear up and gear down that motor when needed and when not needed and so on.......... but because of wades motor... lebron had to give more....

he played like what 38-58 minutes a game or something entire season & playoffs and was healthy 24-7.... guarding 4-5 positions and playing 4-5 positions............. wade was just chillin when playing... much less minutes.... being injured and so on... he just saved everything he got... for the Finals....

maybe if he didnt... and mixed it up with lebron... then lebron wouldnt have been freakin exhausted by the time finals was up..... with the best team defense upon him.... and they could have won the championship....

and yet LeBron's absolute best post-season craps all over wade's.

so much for higher gear.

[QUOTE=Jacks3]and yet LeBron's absolute best post-season craps all over wade's.

so much for higher gear.[/QUOTE]

[SIZE="5"]wade might produce better than lebron in a game or even series........... he is way to damn good not TO play sometimes better.....

but for the entire season.....

and especially for the entire playoffs...........

we are talking about this guy =[/SIZE]

[img]http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/6467/careerplayoffper.jpg[/img]

and how about this (think he averaged like 35-8-9 that playoff run):

[img]http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/7193/perplayoffs.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE]but i agree lebron needs to learn how to gear up and gear down that motor when needed and when not needed and so on.......... but because of wades motor... lebron had to give more....[/QUOTE]
I don't think you really understand what I mean. LeBron already plays at the highest gear he can night in and night out....whether it is in the regular season or in the playoffs he is at the highest gear already. If he were to gear down and gear up you would see like Game 4 in the 2011 NBA finals and then you would see like Game 2 vs. the 76ers in the 2011 playoffs.

I don't think LeBron gets enough credit for doing that.....because that is tough to do.

Wade playing at his peak is better than LeBron at his but LeBron plays closer to his peak on a night to night basis than Wade does. This is pretty much why the majority of NBA fans would take LeBron over Wade in the regular season because of the body of work LeBron puts in on a night to night basis compared to Wade.

If you were to ask the majority of NBA fans who they would rather have in the playoffs and who they would rather have to win a playoff series or run with, I would assume the majority would roll with Wade instead of LeBron.

Since the peaks and valleys for Wade is as much of a product of effort than anything else, the guy with the higher peaks is more valuable for a game or a series.

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]I don't think you really understand what I mean. LeBron already plays at the highest gear he can night in and night out....whether it is in the regular season or in the playoffs he is at the highest gear already. If he were to gear down and gear up you would see like Game 4 in the 2011 NBA finals and then you would see like Game 2 vs. the 76ers in the 2011 playoffs.

I don't think LeBron gets enough credit for doing that.....because that is tough to do.

Wade playing at his peak is better than LeBron at his but LeBron plays closer to his peak on a night to night basis than Wade does. This is pretty much why the majority of NBA fans would take LeBron over Wade in the regular season because of the body of work LeBron puts in on a night to night basis compared to Wade.

If you were to ask the majority of NBA fans who they would rather have in the playoffs and who they would rather have to win a playoff series or run with, I would assume the majority would roll with Wade instead of LeBron.

Since the peaks and valleys for Wade is as much of a product of effort than anything else, the guy with the higher peaks is more valuable for a game or a series.[/QUOTE]

Is your way of giving Lebron credit for something?

I must of missed the part where KG failed to prove people that he didn't have that extra "gear" when he relocated to Boston. If memory serves me right he won a DPOY and made Boston to be the best defensive team over his reign. That and the fact he made it to the finals twice winning a championship and losing one in 7 games in which nobody questioned his heart and effort. Do not ever say KG does not have what it takes to be an all time great. He proved he can be on a good team in the post season.

you're right. lebron and kg are both tall, black and play basketball.

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]I don't think you really understand what I mean. LeBron already plays at the highest gear he can night in and night out....whether it is in the regular season or in the playoffs he is at the highest gear already. If he were to gear down and gear up you would see like Game 4 in the 2011 NBA finals and then you would see like Game 2 vs. the 76ers in the 2011 playoffs.

I don't think LeBron gets enough credit for doing that.....because that is tough to do.

Wade playing at his peak is better than LeBron at his but LeBron plays closer to his peak on a night to night basis than Wade does. This is pretty much why the majority of NBA fans would take LeBron over Wade in the regular season because of the body of work LeBron puts in on a night to night basis compared to Wade.

If you were to ask the majority of NBA fans who they would rather have in the playoffs and who they would rather have to win a playoff series or run with, I would assume the majority would roll with Wade instead of LeBron.

Since the peaks and valleys for Wade is as much of a product of effort than anything else, the guy with the higher peaks is more valuable for a game or a series.[/QUOTE]

wtf are u talking about? its ESPECIALLY in the playoffs where Lebron is the best........ and one of the best EVER... his productions in the playoffs are of the charts... as u can see above...

i love wade.... but if it wasnt for that stacked shaq team he had 1 year... he would be remembered as even worse than T-Mac in the playoffs.... considering every other year he didnt made his scrub team anywhere close to as good as lebron made his scrub team in the season or in playoffs..... lebron went to finals with his 2nd most producting supportive player being Daniel Gibson..... and went deep to the finals all the time after that.... while wade was struggling at the 8th seed and so on barelly being in playoffs and getting always eliminated in the 1st round..........

Wades comment after the Bulls series aimed towards Lebron in the post game press conference: "THANK YOU LEBRON... THANK YOU".... wasnt that sarcastic afterall......... he had not been there ever again after 2006 and had not surpassed even 1st round...

that MAJORITY that would take wade over lebron.... in anything about basketball.... those are biased wade fans... or kobe fans who would rather give credit to anybody else than lebron (like you)....

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]You really...really...REALLY like talking about Lebron James.

I never figured out how people who pretty much just talk about one subject keep themselves going.

I cant even talk about the people I like that much.[/QUOTE]
This. LOL

KG constantly put up better numbers in the post season.

[QUOTE]its ESPECIALLY in the playoffs where Lebron is the best........ and one of the best EVER... his productions in the playoffs are of the charts... as u can see above...[/QUOTE]
#cantdecidebetweeneyerollorlolsmiley[QUOTE=ballerz]KG constantly put up better numbers in the post season.[/QUOTE]
He does not elevate his RS performance in the post-season but he does somewhat maintain it.

RS career:

20/11/4 - 50% shooting

PS career:

20/11/4 - 47% shooting.

I already have a few series in my mind where he played below his average in the playoffs compared to the regular season. 2010 vs. Magic, 2000 vs. Portland, 2008 vs. Lakers, and I am sure there are much more but those are just the few I know in the back of my head as far as decline goes.

He also got brutally outplayed by Dirk in the 2002 playoffs but even though his production rose, his shooting efficiency went down a lot.

[QUOTE=ballerz]KG constantly put up better numbers in the post season.[/QUOTE]

Not really, lebron has always played very well in the playoffs. The finals is where he has struggled.

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]He does not elevate his RS performance in the post-season but he does somewhat maintain it.

RS career:

20/11/4 - 50% shooting

PS career:

20/11/4 - 47% shooting.

I already have a few series in my mind where he played below his average in the playoffs compared to the regular season. 2010 vs. Magic, 2000 vs. Portland, 2008 vs. Lakers, and I am sure there are much more but those are just the few I know in the back of my head as far as decline goes.

He also got brutally outplayed by Dirk in the 2002 playoffs but even though his production rose, his shooting efficiency went down a lot.[/QUOTE]
You have to take into account that garnett injured his knee and after that has been the same player and has been on the decline. I also think the reason his FG% goes down is that he was carry the wolves for so long and in his post season runs he was taking more attempts due to lack of a reliable second option

[QUOTE=knightfall88]I must of missed the part where KG failed to prove people that he didn't have that extra "gear" when he relocated to Boston. If memory serves me right he won a DPOY and made Boston to be the best defensive team over his reign. That and the fact he made it to the finals twice winning a championship and losing one in 7 games in which nobody questioned his heart and effort. Do not ever say KG does not have what it takes to be an all time great. He proved he can be on a good team in the post season.[/QUOTE]

Thank you. Everytime somebody mentions KG, you got my attention. Great points about how KG having that extra gear, by getting the DPOY and by raising Boston's level of defense. Also, someone mentioned the 2002 Dallas/Minnesota playoffs. As a KG superfan...KG did get out played in that series(2002) against the Mavs. It was tough but it happens.

[QUOTE=Teanett]you're right. lebron and kg are both tall, black and play basketball.[/QUOTE]

This

KG would never play in a way where his effort is questioned the way Lebron did against the Celtics in 2010 and the Mavs in 2011. He might not always be able to step his game up, but you can never question his effort.

Lebron is such an enigma in that he completely choked worse then arguably anyone we've seen mainly because his effort looked horrible, but at the same time he's also been very clutch at times. His performance in 07 vs. the Pistons, 09 vs. the Magic, and this year vs. the Celtics and Bulls were like the exact opposites of what he was against the Celtics in 2010 and Mavs this year.

LeBron might not have a "5th gear", but it doesn't matter, because his 4th gear is probably just as good as everyone else's 5th gear, or even better. He just needs to get over his fear in the Finals, even if you are struggling, be more aggressive. LeBron doesn't allow himself to struggle, and when no one else is making shots, he really needs to step up. Once he gets over that, he would be an All-Time Great.

Why would you compare LeBron to KG? KG got shopped after he was out of his prime, LeBron left in his prime via FA. There's a difference there.

And KG always gave it 100%, as for LeBron, we can't say the same.

Uh, tell the Pistons that LeBron doesn't have that extra gear.

Tell the Magic he doesn't have that extra gear.

There are more than enough situations where he has shown the ability to take over and dominate the game with his scoring and passing ability.

It's kind of dumb to say all of a sudden he doesn't have that extra gear because of one bad finals. That series obviously hurts his image and reputation, but to question his actual ability to take it up a notch, is dumb.

His bad play had more to do with his brain/mindset than his ability.

[QUOTE=ballerz]You have to take into account that garnett injured his knee and after that has been the same player and has been on the decline. I also think the reason his FG% goes down is that he was carry the wolves for so long and in his post season runs he was taking more attempts due to lack of a reliable second option[/QUOTE]
When did he injure his knee? In '09 right? I am pretty sure I only brought up one playoff series that was post knee injury.

[QUOTE=guy]KG would never play in a way where his effort is questioned the way Lebron did against the Celtics in 2010 and the Mavs in 2011. He might not always be able to step his game up, but you can never question his effort.
[/QUOTE]
That wasn't why LeBron reminded me of KG......and there is a reason why I said "somewhat" and not exactly.

Another reason why LeBron reminded me somewhat of KG is how neither were given crap for their failures in their first teams. They both honestly did deserve some flack during that time period, not a whole lot, but some.

Madonna is such a horrible person that I regret spanking it to her during her "Like a Virgin" phase.

With all due respect to Lebron, this is an insult to KG. Yeah he had a few seasons paired with Casell & Sprewell, but come on now, he hardly a stacked team that was predicted to win it all during exhibition. I can almost guarantee that. Same can't be said for Lebron.

KG, especially in Minnesota was a bad, bad man. Straight ferocious and easily the most ntimidating skinny guy EVER in the NBA.

Oh yeah, and remember Lebron dancing on the sidelines, in pink, totally disrespecting his competition and the league itself? Well that right alone should've prevented you from making this thread.

KG is always intense as hell. He plays like the opposition stole his dog and walks it across the street of his house every day.

Bron always looks like he is having a gay 'ole time. Always laughing and talking.

But Lebron took his team to the finals with freakin Drew Gooden and Boobie Gibson playing major minutes (albeit in a weak EC)

KG couldn't get his team out of the first round until Cassell brought some moxy to the team. (albeit in a stacked WC)

[QUOTE=All Net]when you average 27, 7 and 7 in the regular season like Lebron did it is damn hard to get much better than that unless you are MJ.[/QUOTE]
This, he sets the standard for himself and he sets it too high. if kobe had 18/7/7 in the finals nobody would say anything
Edit: they would because he only puts up high scoring games

Except LeBron managed to get his crappy team to the finals in 2007. Then again, KG played in a much harder western conference.

[QUOTE=MeLO MvP 15]Except LeBron managed to get his crappy team to the finals in 2007. Then again, KG played in a much harder western conference.[/QUOTE]


KG is not taking Cleveland level supporting cast the past 2 years to 60+ wins including 66 and 1 shy of the Boston Celtics home record (could have tied had LeBron actually played the last game).

[QUOTE=Simple Jack]KG is not taking Cleveland level supporting cast the past 2 years to 60+ wins including 66 and 1 shy of the Boston Celtics home record (could have tied had LeBron actually played the last game).[/QUOTE]
Lebron's 60+ wins support cast was better than KG had in Wolves, and yet KG got them to 58 wins and WCF (more valuable achievement in harder conference). You were saying?

[QUOTE=Harison]Lebron's 60+ wins support cast was better than KG had in Wolves, and yet KG got them to 58 wins and WCF (more valuable achievement in harder conference). You were saying?[/QUOTE]
Not a chance in hell that cavs team had a better supporting cast than that wolves team.

[QUOTE=All Net]Not a chance in hell that cavs team had a better supporting cast than that wolves team.[/QUOTE]
Lets see:

[B]Shaq[/B], even old he was still better than any center KG had in Wolves.

[B]Jamison[/B], 20/10 big man, although underutilized in Cavs (16/8), was again better than any big man KG had in Wolves.

[B]Mo[/B], All-star (undeserving but still) solid player, in the line of older Sprewell and Cassell.

[B]Varejao[/B], scrappy defender, a decent big man, again better than any big KG had in Minny.

[B]Delonte[/B], as crazy as he is, he is solid player from the bench, and better defender than anyone in Minny not named Garnett.
[B]
Mike Brown[/B], as much as we like to make fun of him, was a decent coach, and simply great defensively, much better than Saunders was for... anything.

[B]Overall, Cavs were solid team[/B] (not fantastic, but much better than some fans give them credit), build around Lebron's strengths, it had depth too. Obviously better than any team KG had in Wolves.

[QUOTE=Harison]Lebron's 60+ wins support cast was better than KG had in Wolves, and yet KG got them to 58 wins and WCF (more valuable achievement in harder conference). You were saying?[/QUOTE]

Spreewell AND Cassell that year were better than anyone the Cavaliers had.

How many games did Cassell take over down the stretch that year? His injury was a huge part of why they lost as well in the playoffs iirc.

Jamison and Shaq weren't on the 66 win team...

LeBron's next leading scorer on the Cavaliers in the playoffs was Mo at 16ppg on 40.8% FG (Think Orlando Series). Spreewell was dropping 20 on higher efficiency, and Cassell 17 at 46.5%. KG actually had two guys that, without him, were still good players. It's not as if they were irrelevant and became relevant by playing with KG and on the Wolves. Mo Williams went from obscurity and being a 2nd/3rd option on a team that was failing to make the playoffs in the East, to winning 66 games alongside LeBron, back to being a nobody after he left...

You were saying?

[QUOTE=MeLO MvP 15]Except LeBron managed to get his crappy team to the finals in 2007. Then again, KG played in a much harder western conference.[/QUOTE]
His 07 team wasn't crappy and the teams he played to get to the finals were horrible

[QUOTE=Ikill]His 07 team wasn't crappy and the teams he played to get to the finals were horrible[/QUOTE]
Pistons.