Excellent article: Lebron James vs Magic Johnson comparison

[img]http://sports.cbsimg.net/images/nba/photogallery/jamesmagicfinal.jpg[/img]

[B][SIZE="4"]Legend vs. Star: Magic Johnson vs. LeBron James[/SIZE][/B]

[I]"Next up: Magic Johnson vs. LeBron James

Even though we've tried desperately to hammer this home throughout this series, this one, due its participants, requires an even stronger preface than previously stated. So please, for the love of Auerbach, read this and let it sink in.

This post is not a debate on who was better. It's to examine their games and careers and see where they are alike and where they are different. We're only now beginning to be able to put the 2011 NBA Finals into consideration for how it affects James' career, and while he's going to have a half-dozen more chances to rewrite the tale, the early returns are damaging.

And this is where it's important to bring up statistics. It's often said that most "statheads" or "geeks," "statnerds," "sabretricians," or whatever youw ant to call them preach an all-or-nothing approach. As in, if I believe that using points scored per possession is a wiser approach than points per game, or believing a better indicator of how much a guy rebounds is the percentage of available caroms he snags than rebounds per game that I automatically toss out all other indications. That somehow because I think PER is a good indicator of efficiency, not of value, but efficiency, that I'm somehow going to think that the players better than Kobe Bryant in PER are better than Kobe Bryant at basketball. It robs those of us who want to take all the evidence possible to concoct an opinion of the ability to toe the line. You're either with the numbers, or against. You either value big shots in big games for big wins, or silly numbers on a chart. And it works both ways, as too often numbers-heavy analysts will lose sight of the fact that sometimes a play does leave a team demoralized and they never recover. Happens in real life, happens on the floor. There's a middle ground.

That middle-ground is in beautiful stark relief when we consider James and Magic. Here's a nice start for you.

Through their first seven seasons, James has scored nearly 7,000 more points in a little over 4000 more minutes. Per 36 minutes, James has averaged 24.8 points per game, Magic 18.6. James averaged a line of 27.7-7.1-7.0-1.7-1.8 with 3.3 turnovers per game, Magic 18.6-7.3-10.6-2.1-.5 with 3.8 turnovers per game. James has a career PER Of 26.9, Johnson had one of 23.5 through seven seasons (Magic was one year older at that point). In short, James' overall production has been better up until this point. But to get there you have to consider the years where Magic was sharing the ball with Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, when he was finding his way, when he wasn't producing other-worldly numbers. James was the man from day one.

Instead, take a look at James' eighth season in the league versus' Johnson's. The gap closes considerably. James scored less than a point more per 36 minutes, less than a rebound more per 36 minutes, and Johnson's 12.1 assists to James 6.5 is stunning. The PER gap closes to 27.3 for James versus 27.0 for Magic. And Johnson had a 47.2 Assist percentage, meaning nearly half of all the Lakers' Showtime assists in 1986-1987 came from Magic. James' closest to that was a 41.8 percent mark in 2009-2010, his last with Cleveland.

But the difference that presents itself most clearly to me is connected to the metrics, but not self-evident. Magic Johnson's greatest gift was his ability to excel above and beyond what was necessary, specifically in the role his team required of him. Magic filled a need better than any player in NBA history. If it was rebounding, he'd crash the glass. If it was setting up teammates, he'd drop double-digit assists. And if called upon, he could score at will (Johnson is, across the board, a better shooter than James, though last season James was only 1.2 percentage points behind Johnson in his seventh season). The 1980 Finals' Game 6 where Magic Johnson started at center is the easiest reference point, but that overlooks a decade of play wherein Johnson played point forward better than anyone ever had or ever will, most likely. His versatility is his strength, and it is both a bond and fracture between he and James' game.

When James signed with the Heat along with Chris Bosh, immediately everyone started conceptualizing how this three-headed monster would work. Very early on, Erik Spoelstra confirmed that we would see both James and Wade run point. And throughout the season, James indeed plyayed as the primary ball-handler. His versatility is a huge strengthpoint, in that James is a gifted passer who can make impossible passes, has terrific vision, and can use his size and strentgh to overwhelm an opponent to the breaking point, just before dropping the ball off to a teammate for an easy score.

The problem is that James too often seems intent on fulfilling an agenda. When Johnson played, it was without purpose, flowing within the rhythm of the game. James instead is like an orchestra conductor who wants the entire symphony to stop on a dime and switch to whatever new piece of music he's selected. Teammates should get out of the way because he's coming through. Now they should cut to the basket because he's looking for the baseline cutter. Now they should work to spot up. Now they should try and free him off a pick and roll. If a point guard's responsibility is to not only manage the game, but to identify the opponent's weaknesses and attack them, no one has educated James to that point. It may be a matter of James always believing it is he who should dictate what the defense should do and not the other way around, but that kind of dogma is best fit when you have a system to rely on. Phil Jackson never changed his gameplan because the Triangle would take care of itself (and because he had Michael Jordan, Shaquille O'Neal, and Kobe Bryant to lean on, but let's not get into that). James has never operated in a rigorous discipline like that. He's always been granted decision-making power, the trust to deliver, as Magic often was. The problem is that Magic always knew how to identify where he needed to be, how he needed to play. James too often simply tries to slam the square peg into the round hole. The fact that he's as successful as he is wiht it is a testament to his ability.

In a way, you almost have to blame Jordan for part of the discrepancy. That's the man who James has always looked up, modeled himself after. And that's who we've expected him to be as a basketball society. The pull-up jumper, loop-de-loop layup, free-throw-line dunk contest winner, we want all of that, again. And James too often seems trapped in emulating it. He dabbles with the post, then feels like he's done enough time there and goes back to the crossover pull-up jumper. He never takes the time to recognize "Hey, Shawn Marion is 33 and DeShawn Stevenson is much smaller than me. If I post up, Chandler has to help and that probably means I'm going to the line 30 times." Some think that's because James is lazy. It's hard to see how an individual who is as good at basketball as James is, who is in the physical condition he's in could be lazy. Instead, it's an expectation Magic never had to face. Deferring to Kareem Abdul-Jabbar only made him more popular. Deferring to Dwyane Wade makes James weak. He's supposed to hit the mid-range jumper, the fadeaway. He's supposed to be Jordan. In reality, his career would benefit in no way more than trying to emulate Magic. On and off the court.

Johnson was a media darling. That smile permeates through the years. Magic partied through the years as athletes do, but managed to never allow his image to get out and be tarnished. Part of this was because the internet didn't exist. Part of this is because Johnson always had a firmer lock on his image, despite James being the one with the marekting company built around him. Johnson had an epic rivalry. James instead embraced two of his rivals in playing with them. Johnson always managed to find the perfect way to play in the clutch, whether it was scoring, passing, rebounding, or defense. James is seen as a quitter who fails in the clutch. Johnson retired with the same team that drafted him and has a statue outside the arena. James abandoned his home-state team and people burned his jerseys.

Of course lost in all this is that Johnson walked into one of the most successful franchises in NBA history, and was partnered with the player who would go on to become the all-time scoring leader in league history. James instead entered a perennial underdog and had such great talent come beside him as Wally Szczerbiak, Ben Wallace, and Mo Williams. It doesn't change or affect James' decisions or how he's percieved, nor should it. But these things should be mentioned in full disclosure.

[SIZE="4"]All this time, James has been trying to build himself around Jordan, or create his own iconic image. Maybe instead he should have focused on the leader of Showtime, the man whose talents most closely resemble his." [/SIZE]
[/I]

[url]http://www.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/22748484/31463256[/url]

i agree with everything.... especially the last phrase....

i honestly think Lebron is in a CONFLICT between two completely different sides.... and those sides are Magic Johnson & Michael Jordan.......

should i think pass first? (magic)
should i think score first? (jordan)
should i post up and score? (jordan)
should i post up and facilitate? (magic)
should i play point-guard? (magic)
should i be a perimeter pure scorer? (jordan)
should i control the game like magic?
should i control the game like jordan?
cant i mix all those things? why not?
when is the right time to do it like magic?
when is the right time to do it like jordan?
in the clutch.. should i think like magic or jordan?
:hammerhead:



for the most of his career... he has been mixing magic-jordan......... right now what this new team clearly requires him to do is CHOOSE ONE DESTINY..............

either STFU and become a Point-Guard and Facilitate.... (you have the team to do that right now)
or
either STFU and become a PURE SCORER and let Wade/somebody else facilitate.. (you can afford to average 0 APG right now)

Wade > LeBron

[QUOTE=Doctor Rivers]Wade > LeBron[/QUOTE]

Insightful. :banghead:

I enjoyed that article and I think a lot does stand true. Although what I will say is that I think everyone over analysis Lebron James because of who he is. Just comes with the territory

I full expect he'll find the right balance in the future and go on to win a few rings along the way and be remembered as one of the best players to play the game. Because he is already.

[QUOTE]The problem is that James too often seems intent on fulfilling an agenda. When Johnson played, it was without purpose, flowing within the rhythm of the game. James instead is like an orchestra conductor who wants the entire symphony to stop on a dime and switch to whatever new piece of music he's selected. Teammates should get out of the way because he's coming through. Now they should cut to the basket because he's looking for the baseline cutter. Now they should work to spot up. Now they should try and free him off a pick and roll. If a point guard's responsibility is to not only manage the game, but to identify the opponent's weaknesses and attack them, no one has educated James to that point.[/QUOTE]LeBron Ball :lol

Pauk, if you really read that article from start to finish and still agree with everything, then you may not be the biggest troll in the world. Maybe you are, just like Lebron, too intent on fulfilling an agenda that you don't always see the big picture.

Either way, thanks for posting the article. I DO agree with almost everything. Lebron is practically a hot mess.

He should try to be Magic While Wade can still score at a high level then when wade declines he can be the main scorer...because hes better at facilitating then wade at this point

When Magic was on the Lakers and got his team to the finals he lost it for his team.

He under performed. The town and fans turned on him even though he was one of the best players.

He came out the next year and and won the championship to win everyone back.

LeBron had a similar experience in Miami. Lead his team to the finals. The best player in the NBA under performed and the fans jumped on his back.

Now if he truly follows in Magics footsteps he will come back on fire and win multiple championships.

People forget that Magic was in the same situation as LeBron.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

you cant compare a ringless queen to a champion legend

[QUOTE=SunsCaptain]When Magic was on the Lakers and got his team to the finals he lost it for his team.

He under performed. The town and fans turned on him even though he was one of the best players.

He came out the next year and and won the championship to win everyone back.

LeBron had a similar experience in Miami. Lead his team to the finals. The best player in the NBA under performed and the fans jumped on his back.

Now if he truly follows in Magics footsteps he will come back on fire and win multiple championships.

People forget that Magic was in the same situation as LeBron.[/QUOTE]

Magic was already a 2 time Champion before that

[QUOTE=SunsCaptain]When Magic was on the Lakers and got his team to the finals he lost it for his team.

He under performed. The town and fans turned on him even though he was one of the best players.

He came out the next year and and won the championship to win everyone back.

LeBron had a similar experience in Miami. Lead his team to the finals. The best player in the NBA under performed and the fans jumped on his back.

Now if he truly follows in Magics footsteps he will come back on fire and win multiple championships.

People forget that Magic was in the same situation as LeBron.[/QUOTE]

WTF are you talking about???

Magic won in his first season. He was the first and only rookie to win the FMVP award. His stat sheet was 42 points, 15 rebounds, 7 assists, and 3 steals in the championship game when Jabbar was out with an ankle injury.

[IMG]http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff322/yinwest/Laugh.gif[/IMG]

Here you go silly heads.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ1bd2g3p1Y[/url]

Try doing your own research =)

[QUOTE=SunsCaptain]Here you go silly heads.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ1bd2g3p1Y[/url]

Try doing your own research =)[/QUOTE]

As many have already said before...MAGIC WON A CHAMPIONSHIP HIS ROOKIE YEAR

:facepalm

Doctor Rivers is quickly becoming one of the best posters in the NBA forum

[QUOTE=SunsCaptain]Here you go silly heads.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ1bd2g3p1Y[/url]

Try doing your own research =)[/QUOTE]

5

[QUOTE=pegasus]Pauk, if you really read that article from start to finish and still agree with everything, then you may not be the biggest troll in the world. Maybe you are, just like Lebron, too intent on fulfilling an agenda that you don't always see the big picture.

Either way, thanks for posting the article. I DO agree with almost everything. Lebron is practically a hot mess.[/QUOTE]

Im not really a troll.. i call myself tho... :lol i like to troll Kobetards (they have ridicilous statements), but i do it with facts, i retaliate and correct their crazy statements...

I like Lebron... i commend him when he deserves it and i will bash him when he deserves it....

i just want FACTS..... im FACTS biased.... if the truth is told... i have nothing against it.... a FACT is my "homerism" :cheers:

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow][IMG]http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff322/yinwest/Laugh.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Lebron & Magic :bowdown: most unique players ever

but i did laugh at the pic tho... lol

[QUOTE=pauk]Im not really a troll.. i call myself tho... :lol i like to troll Kobetards (they have ridicilous statements), but i do it with facts, i retaliate and correct their crazy statements...

I like Lebron... i commend him when he diserves it and i will bash him when he diserves it....

i just want FACTS..... im FACTS biased.... if the truth is told... i have nothing against it.... a FACT is my "homerism" :cheers:[/QUOTE]

Diserve? :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

And no, I've honestly never seen a good post from you on here. You're the biggest Lebron homer I've ever seen.

[QUOTE=Phong]LeBron Ball :lol[/QUOTE]

It was really needed for them to be that successful at that time.... he over-over-overachieved....

[QUOTE=pauk]It was really needed for them to be that successful at that time.... he over-over-overachieved....[/QUOTE]

he's the self-proclaimed "chosen one" without a championship. i'd say he's underachieved.

[QUOTE=Heavincent]Diserve? :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

And no, I've honestly never seen a good post from you on here. You're the biggest Lebron homer I've ever seen.[/QUOTE]

oh sorry damn... deserve.. typo :D

dont worry i would not be happy if you found one of my posts "good".... considering you are the biggest kobetard ive ever seen.... with no sense of humility, logic, facts or context in your posts...

as far as Lebron goes... i would have not talked about him so much if YOU wouldnt..... notice that most of my Lebron posts have been RETALIATIONS..... only responses to your ridicilous statements i was trying to correct..

[QUOTE=Doctor Rivers]he's the self-proclaimed "chosen one" without a championship. i'd say he's underachieved.[/QUOTE]

He is 26.... i think the chosen one will be able to spam a couple of rings these upcoming seasons....

[QUOTE=pauk]
dont worry i would not be happy if you found one of my posts "good".... considering you are the biggest kobetard ive ever seen.... with no sense of humility, logic, facts or context in your posts...[/QUOTE]

You saying this = :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I don't even talk about Kobe very much. I don't have some weird obsession with him like you do with Lebron.

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[IMG]http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff322/yinwest/Laugh.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff322/yinwest/Laugh.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff322/yinwest/Laugh.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff322/yinwest/Laugh.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff322/yinwest/Laugh.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff322/yinwest/Laugh.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff322/yinwest/Laugh.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff322/yinwest/Laugh.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i536.photobucket.com/albums/ff322/yinwest/Laugh.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=pauk]He is 26.... i think the chosen one will be able to spam a couple of rings these upcoming seasons....[/QUOTE]

yeah he'll win the upcoming asterisk championship and that's it :roll:

[QUOTE=Doctor Rivers]yeah he'll win the upcoming asterisk championship and that's it :roll:[/QUOTE]

No he won't.

The Heat are overrated.

[QUOTE=Heavincent]You saying this = :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I don't even talk about Kobe very much. I don't have some weird obsession with him like you do with Lebron.[/QUOTE]

you dont talk about him much... you aint as active as me around here i guess...

but when you OPEN YOUR MOUTH.... its mostly garbage man.... sorry...

all your posts have been nothing but jokes, insults towards me/lebron fans or ofcourse lebron... think about that one...

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]5

[QUOTE=pauk]you dont talk about him much... you aint as active as me around here i guess...

but when you OPEN YOUR MOUTH.... its mostly garbage man.... sorry...

all your posts have been nothing but jokes, insults towards me/lebron fans or ofcourse lebron... think about that one...[/QUOTE]

Unlike you, I actually talk about a variety of players. I probably spend more time in the football forum anyway. With you it's just "Lebron this, Kobe that :blah :blah :blah".

Now why don't you go jerk it with your fellow Lebron groupies instead of annoying us intelligent folks.

I'm way too smart to be talking to somebody as stupid as you.

[QUOTE=SunsCaptain]lol what did this post have to do with anything?

:facepalm

We are talking about the similarity between the collapse of Magic in the 84' finals and the collapse of leBron in the 2011 finals.

I hate idiots.

lol starts listing a bunch of accolades...what a moron. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]


yea i remember reading about that....

they called Magic "TRAGIC JOHNSON".... :oldlol:

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YQ1bd2g3p1Y[/url]

Like Master.. Like Pupile eh? But just like the Master... the Pupile will also prevail later with a vengeance (inb4 heaveninacnascntnent spell checks me).....

[QUOTE=SunsCaptain]lol what did this post have to do with anything?

:facepalm

We are talking about the similarity between the collapse of Magic in the 84' finals and the collapse of leBron in the 2011 finals.

I hate idiots.

lol starts listing a bunch of accolades...what a moron. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

Lebron and Magic were not the same in 1984

Magic already won 2 Championships, you moron

[QUOTE=pauk]yea i remember reading about....

they called Magic "TRAGIC JOHNSON".... :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

:facepalm

"tragic magic"

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]:facepalm

"tragic magic"[/QUOTE]

nope.. without the magic.... just "Tragic Johnson"....

[I]"Johnson was called "Tragic Johnson" by Celtics fans due to...."[/I]

[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1984_NBA_Finals[/url]

[I]"In the 1984 Finals, Magic was renamed as Tragic Johnson after the Lakers' surprising loss[/I]"

[url]http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/ian_thomsen/06/19/countdown/index.html#ixzz1ahIjck7B[/url]

facepalm.. yep.. this time smack yourself :lol

[img]http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2011/10/13/111013111428974196.gif[/img]

[QUOTE=Phong][img]http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2011/10/13/111013111428974196.gif[/img][/QUOTE]

:roll:

[QUOTE=Phong][img]http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2011/10/13/111013111428974196.gif[/img][/QUOTE]

did you create that to? :applause: :facepalm funny but.. no life

[QUOTE=pauk]Im not really a troll.. i call myself tho... :lol i like to troll Kobetards (they have ridicilous statements), but i do it with facts, i retaliate and correct their crazy statements...

I like Lebron... i commend him when he deserves it and i will bash him when he deserves it....

i just want FACTS..... im FACTS biased.... if the truth is told... i have nothing against it.... a FACT is my "homerism" :cheers:[/QUOTE]

Here's the biggest problem I have with Lebron. I'll get to the Kobetards in a minute....

The guy made a spectacle of himself during the "decision", then once he got to Miami he told everyone that they were going to win it all and sure enough, he didn't.

That is the definition of fail plain and simple. Cleveland rubbed the failure right in his face, and it was so sweet. All the guy had to do was one of two things:

-demonstrate some class and leave on a good note
-at least win if your going to behave like an idiot on your way out

An amazing talent on the court that gave Cleveland everything he had for 6 out of 7 years, but poor execution as far as his behavior when it was all said and done. It's no surprise that only a minority of NBA fans respect him after all of this.

As for Kobe, sorry kids but the dude is old.....so be optimistic. Let's be thankful for what he's accomplished and all the great moments. Yes he has 5 rings. Yes LeBron has 0. Stop worrying about whether or not Kobe will get 6 rings. 6 rings won't make him better than Jordan, and the lack of 6 rings won't make him any less respected than Jordan. He's a different player that played in a different era.

Whether or not LeBron will continue to fail with the 1st/2nd best player by his side is what I'm interested in. All this convoluted propaganda and player comparisons only serve to muddy the waters. The only thing a majority of people care about is whether or not he's going to fail again.

What I'm also concerned about is how the LeBron homers will prepare for his possible failure.

[QUOTE=Phong][img]http://nsa21.casimages.com/img/2011/10/13/111013111428974196.gif[/img][/QUOTE]

:roll:

[QUOTE=pauk]did you create that to? :applause: :facepalm funny but.. no life[/QUOTE]
you're telling somebody they have no life, when all you do is talk about lebron, and gargle on his nuts. :oldlol: :facepalm MASSIVE FAIL.