The battle for rank #10 all time... Hakeem vs Kobe

It might be debatable who had better career... or is it? I have my opinion.... but... its your show! Lets try and thread the needle here...

Look at these accomplishments first..... and then lets discuss/debate who has the edge out of these 2 players and why....

WHO HAD A BETTER CAREER?

here are the accomplishments/achievements, feel free to add some facts which you think will work in a players favour...:

[CENTER][SIZE="5"][U][B][COLOR="Yellow"]HAKEEM[/COLOR] [COLOR="Red"]OLAJUWON[/COLOR][/B][/U][/SIZE]
[img]http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Hakeem-Olajuwon-Slam-Dunk-Wallpaper.jpg[/img][/CENTER]

1 x MVP
2 x Finals MVP
2 x THE MAN Champion
2 x Defensive Player of The Year
1 x Olympic Gold Medalist
12 x All-Star
6 x All-NBA team
9 x All-Defensive team
1st All-Rookie team
NBA's 50th Anniversary All-Time Team
Hall of Famer

[U]Notable highlight:[/U]
Is the first and only player in NBA history to win the MVP, FMVP, Championship and DPOY in one season....
Olajuwon ended his career in the top ten all-time in blocks, scoring, rebounding and steals
as he is the only player in NBA history to retire in the top ten for all four categories and is known as the best post player in NBA history.

[u]Rivals/Competition at his Position:[/u]
Shaquille Oneal
Patrick Ewing
Alonzo Mourning
David Robinson
Dikembe Mutombo

[u][B]PLAYOFFS STATS[/B]:[/u]
Points:..........25.9 @ 53% FG
Rebounds:.....11.2
Assists:...........3.2
Blocks:...........3.3
Steals:...........1.7
PER:.............25.7 (#5 all-time)

[U]Best Playoff run of at least 2 rounds, 1994-95[/U]:
33 ppg @ 53% FG
10 rpg
5 apg
4 bpg
2 spg

[u][B]SEASON STATS[/B]:[/u]
Points:...........21.8 @ 51% FG
Rebounds:......11.1
Assists:...........2.5
Blocks:...........3.1
Steals:............1.7
PER:..............23.6 (#16 all-time)

[U]Best season 1992-93[/U]:
26 ppg @ 53% FG
13 rpg
4 apg
4 bpg
2 spg
PER - 27.3

[CENTER][SIZE="5"][U][b][COLOR="DarkOrchid"]KOBE[/COLOR] [COLOR="Yellow"]BRYANT[/COLOR][/b][/U][/SIZE]
[img]http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Kobe-2011-Dunk-Widescreen-Wallpaper-BasketWallpapers_com-.jpg[/img][/CENTER]

1 x MVP
2 x Finals MVP
2 x THE MAN Champion + 3 x "Sidekick" Champion (not meaningless, but less value/context)
4 x All-Star MVP
1 x Olympic Gold Medalist
13 x All-Star
9 x All-NBA team
9 x All-Defensive team
2nd All-Rookie team

[U]Notable highlight:[/U]
Scored 81 points in a game which is the 2nd highest score in NBA history.

[u]Rivals/Competition at his Position:[/u]
Reggie Miller
Manu Ginobili
Dwyane Wade
Ray Allen
Monta Ellis

[u][B]PLAYOFFS STATS[/B]:[/u]
Points:.........25.4 @ 45% FG
Rebounds:......5.1
Assists:..........4.8
Blocks:...........0.7
Steals:...........1.7
PER:............22.3 (#20 all-time)

[U]Best Playoff run of at least 2 rounds, 2008-09[/U]:
30 ppg @ 46% FG
5 rpg
6 apg
1 bpg
2 spg

[u][B]SEASON STATS[/B]:[/u]
Points:.........25.3 @ 45% FG
Rebounds:......5.3
Assists:..........4.7
Blocks:...........0.5
Steals:...........1.5
PER:............23.5 (#17 all-time)

[U]Best season 2005-06[/U]:
35 ppg @ 45% FG
5 rpg
5 apg
0 bpg
1 spg
PER - 28.0

I would list both Hakeem and Kobe's rivals at their positions.

This battle shouldn't be about 10th all-time. Oscar Robertson is below them both, no doubt. And I wouldn't rank Duncan or Wilt ahead of Hakeem either.

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]I would list both Hakeem and Kobe's rivals at their positions.[/QUOTE]

good idea... gona work on that

Kobe is tied for #7 on my list. Just saying. Don't say "battle for #10" like he has no case for being any higher.

Oscar Robertson has no case over Kobe

Hakeem is clearly ranked in front of Robertson. It's Oscar versus Kobe for that #10 spot..

Oscar Robertson isn't one of top 10 ever. So Hakeem & Kobe, both can be ranked in top 10.

[QUOTE=creepingdeath]Hakeem is clearly ranked in front of Robertson. It's Oscar versus Kobe for that #10 spot..[/QUOTE]

Kobe is better than both IMO.

Hakeem is one of my favorite players of all time though.

Kobe is 7-9 alltime
Hakeem is 10th

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]I would list both Hakeem and Kobe's rivals at their positions.[/QUOTE]

Added 5....

Im not sure about the Kobe rivals at his position.... except for Dwyane Wade...

Its obvious Hakeem Olajuwon had MUCH tougher competition at his Position...

I don't really think Kobe has a case over Hakeem. Hakeem's peak (93-95) was GOAT level. I don't think you can say the same thing for Kobe, though he did have a incredible peak (06-08) himself. Just not quite on the same level.

Changed the Topic and text a little...

because i dont want this to be a Top 10 debate.... my bad tho..

its about who had a better career between HAKEEM and KOBE

:cheers:

Debate for 10th is between Kobe and Wilt.

[QUOTE=Fatal9]Debate for 10th is between Kobe and Wilt.[/QUOTE]

THIS.:cheers:

[SIZE="4"][B]THE RIVALS AT HAKEEMS POSITION[/B][/SIZE]

For the [B]All-Star spot and 1st All-NBA team spot[/B] Hakeem had to beat out these players at his position:

Shaquille Oneal
David Robinson
Patrick Ewing
Dikembe Mutombo
Alonzo Mourning

Some of the best big men of all time!

For the [B]1st All-Defensive spot[/b] Hakeem had to beat out these players at his position:

Dikembe Mutombo
Mark Eaton
David Robinson
Alonzo Mourning

Some of the best defenders of all time!

For his [b]Defensive Player of the Year trophies[/b] Hakeem had to beat out these players:

Dennis Rodman
Dikembe Mutombo

Probably the best defenders of all time!

He had to fight of also David Robinson, Michael Jordan, Mark Eaton, Alonzo Mourning, Gary Payton..... those are also some of the best defenders of all time...

[SIZE="4"][b]THE RIVALS AT KOBES POSITION[/b][/SIZE]

For the [B]All-Star spot and 1st All-NBA team spot[/B] Kobe had to beat out these players at his position most of the time:

Dwyane Wade
Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Monta Ellis

Wade was the only competition really...

For the [B]1st All-Defensive spot[/b] Kobe had to beat out these players at his position:

Dwyane Wade
Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Monta Ellis
Tony Allen?
have no idea...... i know one thing... they sure were not even close to being great defenders any of them... Wade right now is not that super bad defender tho...

[quote=pauk][SIZE=4][B]THE RIVALS AT HAKEEMS POSITION[/B][/SIZE]

For the [B]All-Star spot and 1st All-NBA team spot[/B] Hakeem had to beat out these players at his position:

Shaquille Oneal
David Robinson
Patrick Ewing
Dikembe Mutombo
Alonzo Mourning

Some of the best big men of all time!

For the [B]1st All-Defensive spot[/B] Hakeem had to beat out these players at his position:

Dikembe Mutombo
Mark Eaton
David Robinson
Alonzo Mourning

Some of the best defenders of all time!

For the [B]Defensive Player of the Year[/B] Hakeem had to beat out these players:

Dennis Rodman
Dikembe Mutombo

Probably the best defenders of all time!

He had to fight of also David Robinson, Michael Jordan, Mark Eaton, Alonzo Mourning, Gary Payton..... those are also some of the best defenders of all time...

[SIZE=4][B]THE RIVALS AT KOBES POSITION[/B][/SIZE]

For the [B]All-Star spot and 1st All-NBA team spot[/B] Kobe had to beat out these players at his position most of the time:

[B]Dwyane Wade
Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Monta Ellis[/B]

Wade was the only competition really...

For the [B]1st All-Defensive spot[/B] Kobe had to beat out these players at his position:
Dwyane Wade
Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Monta Ellis
Tony Allen?
have no idea...... i know one thing... they sure were not even close to being great defenders any of them... Wade right now is not that super bad defender tho...[/quote] Did Iverson and McGrady suddenly disappear from the history books?

[QUOTE=sagr32]Did Iverson and McGrady suddenly disappear from the history books?[/QUOTE]

Iverson was a PG... he started of PG... then moved to SG... then PG.. then SG... then officially SG... Iverson was a PG/SG... not like 60/40 or 70/30... it was 50/50 for him...

McGrady started most of his career as a SF....

If you want to count in McGrady as a SG then you might aswell count in Lebron as a SG... drafted PG/SG... started SG/PG and some SF his first years then moved on to PG/SF.... then moved to SF/PF/PG... then moved on to SF mostly or whatever.... most of his career.... he is a SF tho... i think... lol

take a look at this from 2005 [url]http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/8838445[/url]

[QUOTE=pauk][SIZE="4"][B]THE RIVALS AT HAKEEMS POSITION[/B][/SIZE]

For the [B]All-Star spot and 1st All-NBA team spot[/B] Hakeem had to beat out these players at his position:

Shaquille Oneal
David Robinson
Patrick Ewing
Dikembe Mutombo
Alonzo Mourning

Some of the best big men of all time!

For the [B]1st All-Defensive spot[/b] Hakeem had to beat out these players at his position:

Dikembe Mutombo
Mark Eaton
David Robinson
Alonzo Mourning

Some of the best defenders of all time!

For the [b]Defensive Player of the Year[/b] Hakeem had to beat out these players:

Dennis Rodman
Dikembe Mutombo

Probably the best defenders of all time!

He had to fight of also David Robinson, Michael Jordan, Mark Eaton, Alonzo Mourning, Gary Payton..... those are also some of the best defenders of all time...[/QUOTE]

You forgot Moses Malone who put up 5 seasons of 20-10 play AFTER Hakeem joined the league and he was also voted an all-star 5 times after Hakeem joined the league. He also made 2 All-NBA teams during that period.

You also forgot Robert Parish who made 5 all-star teams after Hakeem joined the league and had plenty of 15-10 seasons after that period. He also made 1 ALL-NBA team.

You also forgot Kareem who made the All-star team 5 times after Hakeem joined the league and he also made 2 All-NBA teams during that period.

[QUOTE=pauk][SIZE="4"][B]THE RIVALS AT HAKEEMS POSITION[/B][/SIZE]

For the [B]All-Star spot and 1st All-NBA team spot[/B] Hakeem had to beat out these players at his position:

Shaquille Oneal
David Robinson
Patrick Ewing
Dikembe Mutombo
Alonzo Mourning

Some of the best big men of all time!

For the [B]1st All-Defensive spot[/b] Hakeem had to beat out these players at his position:

Dikembe Mutombo
Mark Eaton
David Robinson
Alonzo Mourning

Some of the best defenders of all time!

For his [b]Defensive Player of the Year trophies[/b] Hakeem had to beat out these players:

Dennis Rodman
Dikembe Mutombo

Probably the best defenders of all time!

He had to fight of also David Robinson, Michael Jordan, Mark Eaton, Alonzo Mourning, Gary Payton..... those are also some of the best defenders of all time...

[SIZE="4"][b]THE RIVALS AT KOBES POSITION[/b][/SIZE]

For the [B]All-Star spot and 1st All-NBA team spot[/B] Kobe had to beat out these players at his position most of the time:

Dwyane Wade
Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Monta Ellis

Wade was the only competition really...

For the [B]1st All-Defensive spot[/b] Kobe had to beat out these players at his position:

Dwyane Wade
Reggie Miller
Ray Allen
Monta Ellis
Tony Allen?
have no idea...... i know one thing... they sure were not even close to being great defenders any of them... Wade right now is not that super bad defender tho...[/QUOTE]

You r missing Roy, Arenas, Iverson, Tmac, Carter, Jordan and Manu from the All NBA competition

you rmissing Jones, Jordan, Sefolosa,and Battier from the defender list

Hakeem no doubt. Did you see how weak his cast was when he won the title? Plus all time leader in blocks, dominant, excellent defender etc...

KAJ
MJ
TIM
Shaq
BIRD
Hakeem
Magic
Kobe
9th and 10th are hard.

As if YOU saying its the battle for #10 all time somehow makes it definitive that either of them have to be in the 10 spot:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=EnoughSaid]Hakeem no doubt. Did you see how weak his cast was when he won the title? Plus all time leader in blocks, dominant, excellent defender etc...[/QUOTE]

'nuff said

[QUOTE=millwad]You forgot Moses Malone who put up 5 seasons of 20-10 play AFTER Hakeem joined the league and he was also voted an all-star 5 times after Hakeem joined the league. He also made 2 All-NBA teams during that period.

You also forgot Robert Parish who made 5 all-star teams after Hakeem joined the league and had plenty of 15-10 seasons after that period. He also made 1 ALL-NBA team.

You also forgot Kareem who made the All-star team 5 times after Hakeem joined the league and he also made 2 All-NBA teams during that period.[/QUOTE]

I was going to tell Pauk to add the same 3.

I would also add Brad Daugherty, before his back gave out, was a 20/10 player.

I think we are going to need a federal mediator on this one.
Also Kobe and Lebron are rivals there is a rap song about it.:roll: :roll: :roll:
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYkscumrBcc&feature=related[/url]

[B]Hakeem was a Better Player than Kobe

In his prime its not even debatable[/B]

Kobe>>Barkley

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]Hakeem was a Better Player than Kobe

In his prime its not even debatable[/B][/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://shechive.files.wordpress.com/2010/05/1272348532_original-lol.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Heavincent]Kobe is tied for #7 on my list. Just saying. Don't say "battle for #10" like he has no case for being any higher.[/QUOTE]
Agreed, this is merely an attempt to troll, albeit in a sneaky way.

[QUOTE=Fatal9]Debate for 10th is between Kobe and Wilt.[/QUOTE]

In which case...players like Kareem, Bird, and Hakeem would be on the outside of the Top-10, and looking in.
:facepalm

Hakeem has NO case over Wilt...and in fact, he was a BORDERLINE Top-10 player. Hell, the man was seldom regarded as even a Top-4 player in HIS era.

ONE MVP, and that came in a season in which the REAL best player took the year off. One other SECOND place finish. And only TWO more FOURTH place finishes...in EIGHTEEN seasons. The man was not even considered a Top-TEN player, in his OWN era, in HALF of those EIGHTEEN seasons.

The more I study Hakeem's career, the WORSE it gets. The only "great" to "lead" his teams to EIGHT FIRST ROUND EXITS (and in 15 post-seasons...or over HALF the time.)

Moses was more dominant at his peak, and had a 3-1 edge in MVPs. His best seasons were FAR stronger than Hakeem's best. And he outplayed a considerably younger Kareem, in a more dominant fashion, too. And he never allowed Kareem to average 33 ppg and on a mind-boggling .634 shooting, covering FIVE H2H games, either (and Kareem was 38 at the time!)

Hell, an OLD Wilt reduced a PRIME Kareem to a .464 shooter in their 28 H2H games (and fortunately for Kareem, he NEVER faced a PRIME Wilt), while an OLD Kareem shot .599 against Hakeem in their 22 H2H encounters...and at ages 38 thru 41.

Im not a big fan of these types of debates..but i will go as far as...I would draft Hakeem before Bryant..if they were both in the same draft class....hmm like someone else hakeem got drafted over..ha

[QUOTE=jlauber]



The more I study Hakeem's career, the WORSE it gets. The only "great" to "lead" his teams to EIGHT FIRST ROUND EXITS (and in 15 post-seasons...or over HALF the time.)


[/QUOTE]

The only time you've "seen" Hakeem play is on basketball-reference, you old fart. Your comments regarding his games and some of his match-ups may be the most retarded ever, you live in your little bubble where Wilt is the greatest at everything with your pathetic "MY GOD"-bs while your analyzing skills regarding Hakeem is worse than a kid's. You even wrote that there's not much difference between rookie and 2nd year pro Olajuwon compared to his prime.. :facepalm

Go watch the games, you only bring up stats but you have not even once break down any of the games you've commented...:facepalm

"Research"..:facepalm

[QUOTE=Heavincent]Kobe is better than both IMO.

Hakeem is one of my favorite players of all time though.[/QUOTE]
I'll give you Oscar, but I disagree with Hakeem. Anyhow, I think the top 8 (Jordan, Russel, KAJ, Bird, Magic, Shaq, Wilt, Duncan) is kind of set in stone, and neither of those guys should be in there, at least if we'd assume that Kobe's career would end right at this moment.

Goddamit, I'm beginning to see why jlauber rants so much. The Wilt hate on this board is insane! Shit, there is no way Kobe is anywhere remotely close to Wilt ****ING Chamberlain. Period. And LOL @ that one guy leaving Wilt off his list completely. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[QUOTE=RRR3]Goddamit, I'm beginning to see why jlauber rants so much. The Wilt hate on this board is insane! Shit, there is no way Kobe is anywhere remotely close to Wilt ****ING Chamberlain. Period. And LOL @ that one guy leaving Wilt off his list completely. :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITxDdnzpnU8[/url]

[QUOTE=millwad][url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITxDdnzpnU8[/url][/QUOTE]
:violin: :sleeping

Ha ..agendas , agendas and god damned agendas...

I agree pauk, they are close, but ultimately there is a clear edge for kobe:

9. West
[B]10. Bryant
11. Olajuwon[/B]
12. Robertson

Hakeem has become a little overrated in the last few years. People forget that there were legitimate concerns about hakeems leadership and ability to raise his teammates level of play (i admit, he had some pretty mediocre teammates) in the late 80s/early 90s. That's what happens when you get knocked out of the first round 4 years in a row.

I also can't shake the fact that he won his 2 rings with the goat out of the league. How many rings would barkley/malone/drexler have if jordan took his 2 years off a couple years earlier or later?

[QUOTE=oolalaa]
I also can't shake the fact that he won his 2 rings with the goat out of the league. How many rings would barkley/malone/drexler have if jordan took his 2 years off a couple years earlier or later?[/QUOTE]
Yet you'll be fine with LeBron winning 'em if they come alongside Wade and Bosh... right?