Is James Worthy one of the most overrated players of all time?

Worthy is overrated. I have seen him pretty high up on some peoples SF lists. But the question is, how overrated?

He was a good/very good scorer, a fantastic athlete who was as devastating on the fast break as he was hitting mid range jumpers. But, he was an average defender, an average playmaker and an average rebounder.

Couldn't the Lakers have won 4 championships between 83' and 88' with Dominique instead of Worthy? or Alex English? Was he really better than Adrian Dantley? or Bernard King? or Kiki Vandeweghe? or even Mark Aguirre?

Worthy was a fantastic complimentary player, an unbelievable 3rd option to have and a good 2nd option. He was perfect for those mid 80s Laker teams and had some big playoff games.

But come on people. [B]WHAT IF THE SAN DIEGO CLIPPERS HAD DRAFTED HIM?![/B]


[U]Edit:[/U]

Some clarification:

[B]Most[/B] people consider Worthy to be 'greater' than (you know, higher on all time lists) other small forwards from that era such as nique, english, dantley, king etc.

Now i am asking, is that because he was the better player or because he was fortunate to land on the perfect team?

I try to judge players in a vacuum. I try to put their team accomplishments into perspective. It can be very hard sometimes :lol

He was a very good player but putting him into the all-time 50 greatest is indeed overrating him. He was not better than Dominique Wilkins, Bernard King, and others...

I don't see how someone would come to the conclusion that Kiki or Alex English were better than Worthy. Or Aguirre for that matter. Bernard King during his short prime? Yes. Haven't seen much of Dantley on the Jazz, but he wasn't as good as Worthy when he was a Piston, and he had a chance to win as a guy who wasn't the best player on a loaded team. Maybe they should've won in '88, but he wasn't as good in that role on a contender as Worthy, and Detroit got better after he left.

Worthy was a beast in transition, a reliable mid-range shooter, almost unstoppable in the post, a very good passer out of the post and he almost always raised his game in the playoffs.

There were series when you could argue he was the Lakers MVP. Take the '87 WCF for example when he averaged 30 and was their most consistent player in the series.

He was a better than average defensive player id so if only for his mobility at his size and the effort he would put in for the right matchups.

And I wouldnt call him overrated at all. Too many people are barely aware of his impact on those teams. He was the halfcourt down the stretch go to guy by the late 80s. He never had numbers and Magic personally gift wrapped him like 12 points a game but some credit must be given for his ability to run the floor and his hands and finishing ability.

He was as held back by the talent he played with as he was made to look good I believe. He only played like 1-2 healthy months as a franchise player.

But he showed me all I needed to see. Im not gonna call him overrated for buying into his team and playing a role to win. I dont buy for a second that if you put him on his spot and feed like like Nique, Dantley, and King types got that he wouldnt do numbers.

But it just wasnt gonna happen. And he was fine with it.

Who overrates James Worthy?

^^^^^^

That's a better question

Do ISH posters raise these kinds of mind numbing questions because they are trying to show how much they know about the league past/present?

How is Big Game James overrated in the first place?

Nobody calls him the GOAT forward. Nobody says he is better then such and such.

Really nobody says anything except he was a great player who won rings with Magic.

I see no reason for this thread.

I watched him play and I think he is overrated. I also think he may the only Top 50 GPOAT that wasn't a first ballot HOFer.

Worhty was an amazing talent that fit in perfectly with his team. If he would have been drafted elswhere he would have had more individual success but less team success. Look how few shots it took him to get his points. The dude had a bum knee otherwise he would have been able toplay longer a s well. Worthy isn't overrated in the least.

Dennis Rodman who is on of the all-time great defenders said that Worhty was the one play he couldn't guard. He said "I'd be trying to figure out if I should go over the screen or under the screen and boom, he'd be at the rim."

[QUOTE=DirtySanchez]How is Big Game James overrated in the first place?

Nobody calls him the GOAT forward. Nobody says he is better then such and such.

Really nobody says anything except he was a great player who won rings with Magic.

[B]I see no reason for this thread.[/B][/QUOTE]

Since when does a thread have to have a reason for it's existence? I simply wanted to start a small discussion on James Worthy. I'm not settled on what i think of him yet...

[QUOTE]I watched him play and I think he is overrated. I also think he may the only Top 50 GPOAT that wasn't a first ballot HOFer.[/QUOTE]

Nah he wasnt.

Not that it matters. The HOF voting is often a joke. Nique didnt get in on the first try. Bing, Monroe, Cowens, Gervin, Sam Jones, Nate thurmond, and others didnt make it first ballot. some of those guys I just mentioned took 10-15 years. Monroe got in in the 90s and he retired in the late 70s or maybe 1980 or 81 at the latest.

No, if anything he's one of the most underrated players OAT.

Since ISH loves games 7's and triple double's so much
36 points, 16 rebounds and 10 Assists - game 7, '88 finals against the Pistons :bowdown:

[QUOTE=TheBluest]Who overrates James Worthy?

^^^^^^

That's a better question

Do ISH poster raise these kinds of mind numbing questions because they are trying to show how much they know about the league past/present?[/QUOTE]

:cry:

I feel that there is more under-rating(hating)
than over-rating Worthy. He is right where he should be.
In the top 50 All Time, number retired by Lakers,
and in my top 5 favorite players all time.

Versions of this thread come out all the time..sleeping
Why the hate for Worthy? The guy was not a scrub.
Why you try to make him out to be a Luke Walton type?



Fact: Worthy >>> Pierce
Fact: haters gonna hate.

[QUOTE=Lakerlove420]I feel that there is more under-rating(hating)
than over-rating Worthy. He is right where he should be.
In the top 50 All Time, number retired by Lakers,
and in my top 5 favorite players all time.

Versions of this thread come out all the time..sleeping
Why the hate for Worthy? The guy was not a scrub.
Why you try to make him out to be a Luke Walton type?



[B]Fact: Worthy >>> Pierce[/B]
Fact: haters gonna hate.[/QUOTE]

Why/how is he better than pierce?

[QUOTE=Lakerlove420]I feel that there is more under-rating(hating)
than over-rating Worthy. He is right where he should be.
In the top 50 All Time, number retired by Lakers,
and in my top 5 favorite players all time.

Versions of this thread come out all the time..sleeping
Why the hate for Worthy? The guy was not a scrub.
Why you try to make him out to be a Luke Walton type?



Fact: Worthy >>> Pierce
Fact: haters gonna hate.[/QUOTE]


Not sure I'd go that far Pierce is legendary in his own right but I don't see how a fan of the game can pose such a question if they haven't formed an opinion of said player?

Just because he cracks top 50 All-Time doesn't mean he's overrated. I mean look at how many great players aren't on the list to this day...It's obvious the list needs to be redone....

such as adding

Payton/Miller/Rodman/Wilkins/Ray Allen/Webber/Dirk/Mourning/Garnett/Wade/Lebron/Tim Duncan/Durant/Pierce/Kobe etc etc. when the list was made he deserved to be considered and make the list

I would like posters who make these kinds of threads to first define what makes players overrated, otherwise threads like these makes no sense.

[QUOTE=Kblaze8855]Nah he wasnt.

Not that it matters. The HOF voting is often a joke. Nique didnt get in on the first try. Bing, Monroe, Cowens, Gervin, Sam Jones, Nate thurmond, and others didnt make it first ballot. some of those guys I just mentioned took 10-15 years. Monroe got in in the 90s and he retired in the late 70s or maybe 1980 or 81 at the latest.[/QUOTE]

Wow, did not know that.

- Is James Worthy one of the most overrated players?

- ask freshman Michael Jordan about his mentor and techer

[QUOTE=oolalaa]Worthy is overrated. I have seen him pretty high up on some peoples SF lists. But the question is, how overrated?

He was a good/very good scorer, a fantastic athlete who was as devastating on the fast break as he was hitting mid range jumpers. But, he was an average defender, an average playmaker and an average rebounder.

Couldn't the Lakers have won 4 championships between 83' and 88' with Dominique instead of Worthy? or Alex English? Was he really better than Adrian Dantley? or Bernard King? or Kiki Vandeweghe? or even Mark Aguirre?

Worthy was a fantastic complimentary player, an unbelievable 3rd option to have and a good 2nd option. He was perfect for those mid 80s Laker teams and had some big playoff games.

But come on people. [B]WHAT IF THE SAN DIEGO CLIPPERS HAD DRAFTED HIM?![/B][/QUOTE]

When you put up 36/16/10 in game 7 of the NBA Finals you sure as hell ain't overrated.

[QUOTE=TheBluest]Not sure I'd go that far Pierce is legendary in his own right but I don't see how a fan of the game can pose such a question if they haven't formed an opinion of said player?

Just because he cracks top 50 All-Time doesn't mean he's overrated. I mean look at how many great players aren't on the list to this day...It's obvious the list needs to be redone....

such as adding

Payton/Miller/Rodman/Wilkins/Ray Allen/Webber/Dirk/Mourning/Garnett/Wade/Lebron/Tim Duncan/Durant/Pierce etc etc. when the list was made he deserved to be considered and make the list

I would like posters who make these kinds of threads to first define what makes players overrated, otherwise threads like these makes no sense.[/QUOTE]

Okay then. Some clarification:

[B]Most[/B] people consider Worthy to be 'greater' than (you know, higher on all time lists) other small forwards from that era such as nique, king, dantley, king etc.

Now i am asking, is that because he was the better player player or because he was fortunate to land on the perfect team?

I try to judge players in a vacuum. I try to put their team accomplishments into perspective. It can be very hard sometimes :lol

[QUOTE=oolalaa]Okay then. Some clarification:

[B]Most[/B] people consider Worthy to be 'greater' than (you know, higher on all time lists) other small forwards from that era such as nique, king, dantley, king etc.

[B]Now i am asking, is that because he was the better player player or because he was fortunate to land on the perfect team[/B]?

I try to judge players in a vacuum. I try to put their team accomplishments into perspective. It can be very hard sometimes :lol[/QUOTE]


Is Lebron a greater player because he's playing with Wade and Bosh?

Is Garnett a greater player because he's playing with Peirce and Allen?

Was Nash a greater player when he played with Dirk and Finley?

Was Kobe a greater player next to Pau/Lamar/Artest?


Individually Worthy may not have been as great as those players you listed but this is a TEAM sport still and you can't take a player's impact on TEAM play away from their greatness. Is this not what makes Magic crack Top 5 on most list? It's because of what he was able to accomplish via TEAM play because his numbers in certain areas of the game don't blow you away.

Anybody have Worthy's numbers from 1986-1991 in the games Magic didn't play in?

He's not overrated. I have him at #11 on my top SF list.

Well I think Worthy could have been a scoring machine franchise player a hair below the level of Nique, King, English, and Dantley. Meaning putting up around 27 points a night peak value wise. The other four were getting 30 points a night at their best. But Worthy was a better defender than all four of them. He was also the biggest at 6'9 230 pounds. And he played lots of PF early in his career. James was a beast and in my book passes the eye test for an alpha dog caliber SF, even though he was the second or third option for some of those Laker teams.

In terms of GOAT u factor longevity being great,numbers, team accolades,and solo accolades. In this sense, I would rank these at the GOAT SF's:

Bird
Doc
Hondo
Baylor
Barry
Lebron
Pip
Nique
Billy C
Pierce

I think Worthy has a case to be in the top ten SF's ever considering all factors along with English, Dantley, King. But peak value wise I would say: (no order after the top 4)

Bird
Lebron
Doc
Baylor
Barry
Hondo
Nique
G Hill
King
Billy C.

So James in my book is probably rated just right. I feel Nique should have been on the 50 greatest and was better than Worthy. However I would leave James on and take off somebody else like Shaq, who had played only 5 years.

[B]He is Overrated and Underrated

He would have been a great 2nd option

The thing he had over Nique, King, Dantley and English was Defense and Versatility: He Was a Better Defender and Could Play and Guard SFs and PFs both. Thats what made him as good or Better than probablhy English. Not Dantley, Nique or King: I consider them Better.[/B]

it drives me crazy when mj gets credited for that unc championship even though james worthy was their best player

I've always thought Worthy was actually overlooked and underrated. Making the top 50 list doesn't mean anything.

I though Kobrick Cryant was :confusedshrug:

He was always overrated. Fortunate to have played where and when he did. I never thought he was a lot better than Scott but he got a lot more credit.

[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]He is Overrated and Underrated

He would have been a great 2nd option

The thing he had over Nique, King, Dantley and English was Defense and Versatility: He Was a Better Defender and Could Play and Guard SFs and PFs both. Thats what made him as good or Better than probablhy English. Not Dantley, Nique or King: I consider them Better.[/B][/QUOTE]

Exactly right! He is a player u could consider overrated and underrated. Versatility and D is what he had over those SF's u named. But after Dr. J slowed down, I always considered Bird, Nique, and King the top three SF's in the L. Bird the clear number one and a tossup between King and Nique for number two. Once King got that injury bug, it was Nique as the clear number two. Once Bird slowed, it was then Nique, Pip, and Mullin battling for SF supremacy. I happen to think Nique was the best during that time then Pip eventually eclipsed him.

top 5 most overrated

I would have to say yes.

I don't think he's overrated.

I just think other 1980s small forwards are underrated by comparison.

Ask a casual fan if they've heard of James Worthy and, chances are, the answer will be 'yes'.

Those same fans probably won't have heard of Alex English, Adrian Dantley or Bernard King (unless they grew up watching the Knicks).

More serious and older basketball fans will have a better perspective on things and realise that Worthy was a very talented player and deserving of his credit, but realise that he wasn't necessarily much better than an Alex English or a Dominique Wilkins.

Certainly, if Wilkins had been on the Lakers, he'd also have those championships and would surely be more highly regarded. Instead, he's remembered as a dunker who was somewhat selfish, which is perhaps unfair.

Overrated? Not sure where he is generally ranked, but yes, I would take him over Dantley, King, and Wilkins in terms of overall careers.

From '87 thru '90, Worthy was generally the second best player on the floor in all of his playoff games. And while Magic was more deserving in '88, Worthy did win a FMVP, which elevated his career over the above players for sure.

Having said that, IMHO, Dantley was truly one of the greatest offensive players of all-time. He was clearly the best scorer in the league from the early 80's until MJ came along later in the decade. And his ability to score 30+ ppg on 18-20 FGAs per game in a span of several seasons was just phenomenal. 30 ppg on .559 to .580 shooting...and all from a 6-5 210 POST player!

Let's just say if James Worthy had landed on the Clippers or say, a team like the Hawks, he would not have had the career that Nique had.

He wasn't a better player than Nique, but I'm not sure if Nique would have fit those Laker teams better. I guess it's a combination of Worthy being a great complimentary star and him being able to play with Magic.

I do think Nique + Magic would have been something special, the REAL lob city if you will.

Threads like this plss me off, and lol at the clowns who said they saw him play and think he is overrated.

Worthy was a Finals MVP
Worthy had the quickest first step in the league
Worthy was the deadliest fast break finisher in the league and one of the main reasons 'Showtime' was 'Showtime'.
Worthy always drew the toughest defensive assignment and excelled. Do you think old man Kareem or slow ass Magic was stopping ANYBODY?

The f*ckin guy's nickname was 'Big Game James' because of his clutchness for crisesakes!!!

The f*ck outta here with the hate.

No.

[QUOTE=jlauber]Overrated? Not sure where he is generally ranked, but yes, I would take him over Dantley, King, and Wilkins in terms of overall careers.

From '87 thru '90, Worthy was generally the second best player on the floor in all of his playoff games. And while Magic was more deserving in '88, Worthy did win a FMVP, which elevated his career over the above players for sure.

Having said that, IMHO, Dantley was truly one of the greatest offensive players of all-time. He was clearly the best scorer in the league from the early 80's until MJ came along later in the decade. And his ability to score 30+ ppg on 18-20 FGAs per game in a span of several seasons was just phenomenal. 30 ppg on .559 to .580 shooting...and all from a 6-5 210 POST player![/QUOTE]

Yep, but you are forgetting the fact that Detroit had to trade him to get over the hump and win their first championship.

They saw him as the weak link and an impediment to winning it all.

Kind of puts a damper on his statistical glory, which came much easier in the 80s, and especially in the regular season.

[QUOTE=JtotheIzzo]Threads like this plss me off, and [U]lol at the clowns who said they saw him play and think he is overrated.[/U]

Worthy was a [B]Finals MVP[/B]
Worthy had the [B]quickest first step in the league[/B]
Worthy was the [B]deadliest fast break finisher in the league and one of the [U]main reasons 'Showtime' was 'Showtime'.[/U][/B]
Worthy [B]always drew the toughest defensive assignment[/B] and excelled. Do you think old man Kareem or slow ass Magic was stopping ANYBODY?

The f*ckin guy's nickname was '[SIZE="4"]Big Game James[/SIZE]' because of his clutchness for crisesakes!!!

The f*ck outta here with the hate.[/QUOTE]

well said.

[QUOTE=JtotheIzzo]Threads like this plss me off, and lol at the clowns who said they saw him play and think he is overrated.

Worthy was a Finals MVP
Worthy had the quickest first step in the league
Worthy was the deadliest fast break finisher in the league and one of the main reasons 'Showtime' was 'Showtime'.
Worthy always drew the toughest defensive assignment and excelled. Do you think old man Kareem or slow ass Magic was stopping ANYBODY?

The f*ckin guy's nickname was 'Big Game James' because of his clutchness for crisesakes!!!

The f*ck outta here with the hate.[/QUOTE]

Sanity finally prevails. Repped.

[QUOTE=JtotheIzzo]Yep, but you are forgetting the fact that Detroit had to trade him to get over the hump and win their first championship.

They saw him as the weak link and an impediment to winning it all.

Kind of puts a damper on his statistical glory, which came much easier in the 80s, and especially in the regular season.[/QUOTE]

Dantley was on the downside of his career when he was playing with the Pistons. He was still an efficient shooter, but his scoring had dropped considerably by the time he was in Detroit, and his career was basically over after the Pistons traded him.

And you certainly couldn't fault him for Detroit not winning the title in '88. Dantley averaged 21.3 ppg on .573 shooting from the floor, and .859 from the line (and he was BY FAR, the Pistons leading scorer from the line.)

And given the fact that the Lakers were wiped out by injuries in the '89 Finals, I think AD would have won a title with that team.

Having said all of that, Dantley was a pure scorer, and arguably the most efficient non-center scorer in NBA history. And he even had a couple of seasons of 4.0+ apg, as well. Still, he was not a good rebounder, nor a good defender.

I haven't taken the time to determine where Dantley would rank all-time, but only Kareem can claim a 30+ ppg season on .570 shooting. And AD had four seasons of 30+ ppg on .558+ shooting. Not even Kareem can make that claim.