Duncan won 4 NBA titles as the no.1 option of his team. Timmy is also a 2x NBA MVP, and 3x Finals MVP. I actually rank Duncan ahead of Bird in the all time lists. The Spurs are a playoffs team since they drafted Duncan in the 1997 NBA Draft.
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Duncan won 4 NBA titles as the no.1 option of his team. Timmy is also a 2x NBA MVP, and 3x Finals MVP. I actually rank Duncan ahead of Bird in the all time lists. The Spurs are a playoffs team since they drafted Duncan in the 1997 NBA Draft.
A LeBron fan who will do anything to devalue Kobe.
He has 5 rings.
People rank players based on preference combined with rings. That's how it's been and that's how it will always be.
Bill Russel has 11 rings. Yet there are a lot of people who don't classify him as a top 2-3 player. You give MJ 11 rings and nobody in the world would ever debate his ranking.
Again, Kobe and Duncan are both great top 10 players in NBA history.
[URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2001_WCF.html"]2001[/URL], [URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2002_WCS.html"]2002[/URL], [URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2004_WCS.html"]2004[/URL], [URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2008_WCF.html"]2008[/URL].
[QUOTE=It's A VC3!!!]A LeBron fan who will do anything to devalue Kobe.
He has 5 rings.
People rank players based on preference combined with rings. That's how it's been and that's how it will always be.
Bill Russel has 11 rings. Yet there are a lot of people who don't classify him as a top 2-3 player. You give MJ 11 rings and nobody in the world would ever debate his ranking.
Again, Kobe and Duncan are both great top 10 players in NBA history.[/QUOTE]
Finals MVP. Robert Horry is a 7x Champion. Prime John Havlicek was also a good NBA player. His team won 9 NBA Championships, but you never see some jerk offs rank him ahead of Hakeem and Bird. LeBron will win an NBA Finals MVP. He's better than that @$$hole.
[QUOTE=Lebron23]Finals MVP. Robert Horry is a 7x Champion. Prime John Havlicek was also a good NBA player. His team won 9 NBA Championships, but you never see some jerk offs rank him ahead of Hakeem and Bird. LeBron will win an NBA Finals MVP. He's better than that @$$hole.[/QUOTE]
That's definitely true. There are a ton of players that end up turning invisible after they retire. Robert Horry will only be remembered for his crazy, lucky, miracle shots rather then his rings. I don't know why it's like that, and it sucks. LeBron will surely be remembered if he wins a ring or multiple rings. While other players won't.
I
Most people here rank Duncan ahead of Kobe. Where have you been?
[QUOTE=Alamo]Most people here rank Duncan ahead of Kobe. Where have you been?[/QUOTE]
Yup.
3 Finals MVPs compared to 2 Finals MVPs
2 League MVP compared to 1 League MVP
If he gets a ring as the 2nd best player this year it just puts him even more ahead. Weirdly enough, his playoff PER is actually higher than Parker/Ginobili's so you could argue he's the best player on this team. He was definitely the best during the Clippers series.
Look at the Lebron lovers trying act "objective" when it comes to Kobe and Duncan :lol
When Lebron wins his 1st ring, these same idiots will have him ranked top 10.
Frankly, you can order Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan however you wish and I won't argue it.
Supplanting any of those guys in the top 10 is going take at minimum, 3 championships and 3 Finals MVPs.
Good luck with that.
As for their primes and accomplishments;
[IMG]http://b1205.hizliresim.com/x/q/6fc4s.jpg[/IMG]
As for longevity; (being best player in the L)
1997-98; Duncan was top 5. Kobe wasn't top 5.
1998-99; Duncan was the best. Kobe wasn't top5.
1999-00; Duncan was the 2nd. Kobe wasn't top 5.
2000-01; Duncan was top3. Kobe was top3.
2001-02; Duncan was top2(Shaq or Duncan). Kobe was top5.
2002-03; Duncan was the best. Kobe was top5.
2003-04; Duncan was the 2nd. Kobe was top5.
2004-05; Duncan was the best. Kobe wasn't top5.
2005-06; Duncan was top5. Kobe was the best.
2006-07; Duncan was top2. Kobe was top2. (po; Duncan - rs; Kobe)
2007-08; Duncan was top5. Kobe was the best.
2008-09; Duncan wasn't top5. Kobe was top3(2nd or 3rd, depends on Wade).
2009-10; Duncan wasn't top5. Kobe was top3(depends on Wade&Durant).
2010-11; Both of them wasn't top 5.
2011-12; Duncan isn't top 5. Kobe is top 5.
Duncan was a top 5 player for 11 straight seasons. Top 3 player for 8 seasons.
Kobe was a top 5 player for 10 seasons. Top 3 player for 6 seasons.
When their career are over, I think Kobe will have the edge on longevity. But right now, he doesn't have.
I'd take 2003 Duncan over any version of Kobe. As for peaks;
It's playoffs vs. regular season.
Kobe averaged 35.4 - 5.3 - 4.5 - 1.8 - 0.4 in 2005-06 regular season. He made the playoffs with one of the weakest supporting cast for a playoff team.
Duncan averaged 24.7 - 15.4 - 5.3 - 0.6 - 3.3 in 2003 playoffs. He made one of the greatest title(playoff) runs ever. He won it all with one of the weakest supporting cast for a championship team.
If we extend span, to 3 years, I'd rather have '01-'03 Duncan over '06-'08 Kobe.
Duncan has the edge on being a better playoff performer.
As for peak and prime; Duncan > Kobe. As for accomplishments/accolades; Duncan > Kobe. If Kobe gains the edge on longevity, still it'd remain debatable.
(I will make copy/paste in Duncan-Bryant threads until start of the 12/13 NBA season.:D )
[QUOTE=Odinn]As for their primes and accomplishments;
[IMG]http://b1205.hizliresim.com/x/q/6fc4s.jpg[/IMG]
As for peak and prime; Duncan > Kobe. As for accomplishments/accolades; Duncan > Kobe. If Kobe gains the edge on longevity, still it'd remain debatable.
(I will make copy/paste in Duncan-Bryant threads until start of the 12/13 NBA season.:D )[/QUOTE]
Nicely done, although I have to ask. Given Duncan's dominance and resume, how is he not ranked ahead of Bird (who many have top 6)?
It's like the elephant in the room that few want to address.
[QUOTE=dynasty1978]Look at the Lebron lovers trying act "objective" when it comes to Kobe and Duncan :lol
When Lebron wins his 1st ring, these same idiots will have him ranked top 10.
Frankly, you can order Shaq, Kobe, and Duncan however you wish and I won't argue it.
Supplanting any of those guys in the top 10 is going take at minimum, 3 championships and 3 Finals MVPs.
Good luck with that.[/QUOTE]
Why would Lebron need 3 FMVPs.. if he leads Miami to two championships, gets 2 fmvps... then he will like have 4 mvps, 2 finals mvps to Kobe 1 and 2.
Coupled with Lebrons superior numbers, taking a scrub team to the finals, he will definately go above Kobe in the rankings.
Kobe being carried to his first 3 championships doesn't mean a huge amount.
You have to put the rings into perspective.
Playoff runs:
[B]Kobe Bryant[/B]
'00: 21.1-4.5-4.4-.470 eFG% (Championship)
'01: 29.4-7.3-6.1-.485 eFG% (Championship)
'02: 26.6-5.8-4.6-.459 eFG% (Championship)
'04: 24.5-4.7-5.5-.439 eFG% (Finals)
'08: 30.1-5.7-5.6-.514 eFG% (Finals)
'09: 30.2-5.3-5.5-.492 eFG% (Championship, Finals MVP)
'10: 29.2-6.0-5.5-.506 eFG% (Championship, Finals MVP)
[B]
Tim Duncan[/B]
'99: 23.2-11.5-2.8-.511 eFG% (Championship, Finals MVP)
'03: 24.7-15.4-5.3-.529 eFG% (Championship, Finals MVP)
'05: 23.6-12.4-2.7-.465 eFG% (Championship, Finals MVP)
'07: 22.2-11.5-3.3-.521 eFG% (Championship)
Even though Kobe didn't win Finals MVP in '01, that run was better than 3 of Duncan's ('99, '05, '07)
Plus Kobe has repeated multiple times, while Duncan has never.
[QUOTE]If he gets a ring as the 2nd best player this year[/QUOTE]
How exactly is Duncan the 2nd best player on this team? :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=Artillery]Yup.
3 Finals MVPs compared to 2 Finals MVPs
2 League MVP compared to 1 League MVP
If he gets a ring as the 2nd best player this year it just puts him even more ahead. Weirdly enough, his playoff PER is actually higher than Parker/Ginobili's so you could argue he's the best player on this team. He was definitely the best during the Clippers series.[/QUOTE]
Thats like equating Rip Hamilton's ring with the Pistons in 04 to Kobe's in 09/10 or Dirk's last year, or Shaq's from 00 to 02.. just stupid.:oldlol: He's averaging 16/9 and thats likely to go down as competition goes up.
[QUOTE=konex]How exactly is Duncan the 2nd best player on this team? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Have you seen Tony Parker?
[QUOTE=Artillery]
If he gets a ring as the 2nd best player this year.[/QUOTE]
He's the 3rd best player on the Spurs
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]You have to put the rings into perspective.
Playoff runs:
[B]Kobe Bryant[/B]
'00: 21.1-4.5-4.4-.470 eFG% (Championship)
'01: 29.4-7.3-6.1-.485 eFG% (Championship)
'02: 26.6-5.8-4.6-.459 eFG% (Championship)
'04: 24.5-4.7-5.5-.439 eFG% (Finals)
'08: 30.1-5.7-5.6-.514 eFG% (Finals)
'09: 30.2-5.3-5.5-.492 eFG% (Championship, Finals MVP)
'10: 29.2-6.0-5.5-.506 eFG% (Championship, Finals MVP)
[B]
Tim Duncan[/B]
'99: 23.2-11.5-2.8-.511 eFG% (Championship, Finals MVP)
'03: 24.7-15.4-5.3-.529 eFG% (Championship, Finals MVP)
'05: 23.6-12.4-2.7-.465 eFG% (Championship, Finals MVP)
'07: 22.2-11.5-3.3-.521 eFG% (Championship)
Even though Kobe didn't win Finals MVP in '01, that run was better than 3 of Duncan's ('99, '05, '07)
Plus Kobe has repeated multiple times, while Duncan has never.[/QUOTE]
Yup.. being 'the man' is very overrated when you're putting up 29/7/6.
29/7/6 is better than what most first options put up en route to championships.. Lebron right now will be lucky to average 29/7/6 through these playoffs.
Kobe as a 2nd option during the first 3peat had a greater responsibility to the Lakers offense than Duncan flanked by his two Hall of fame guards.
The fact that prime Shaq was a better offensive force than young Kobe is irrelevant to a Kobe vs Duncan comparison.
Duncan > Kobe. Not close.
ROFL the goof troop is out in full brigade.
They mad.:roll:
[QUOTE=N0Skillz]Have you seen Tony Parker?[/QUOTE]
I've also seen Manu. He's the 2nd best player on the team, not Duncan ;)
[QUOTE=tpols]Yup.. being 'the man' is very overrated when you're putting up 29/7/6.
29/7/6 is better than what most first options put up en route to championships.. Lebron right now will be lucky to average 29/7/6 through these playoffs.[/QUOTE]
Yup. Plus Kobe was every bit as much as the man as Shaq in the 4th quarters of the '01 and '02 championships.
He led the Lakers in 4th quarter points those two postseasons
Interesting facts about the 2002 2nd round series vs San Antonio
Game 4:
4th Quarter
Kobe - 12
Spurs - 10
He hit the game winner with 5.1 sec remaining to give the Lakers a 3-1 lead.
And the game before that? Kobe scored 11 points in the 4th quarter on 5/5 shooting in game 3 giving the Lakers a 2-1 series lead.
[QUOTE=NumberSix]Duncan > Kobe. Not close.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1600/kobepotd.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=It's A VC3!!!]A LeBron fan who will do anything to devalue Kobe.
He has 5 rings.
[/QUOTE]
Ah typical ISH. Someone gets butthurt so they immedietly attack the persons favorite team/player even when it's irrelevant to the discussion. Pretty sure OP doesn't have LeBron ranked over Duncan either so I don't see how this is to gain credibility for LeBron.
Duncan is clearly better. That Odin guy posted a great image. Duncans team has consistantly been 50 wins+ since he was drafted and the ONLY constant on the roster has been Tim Duncan. Kobe proved when Shaq was traded he cannot carry teams as seen by his miraculous 0 playoff series victories post Shaq and pre-Gasol. Now that Gasol has declined and is no longer a top 3 bigman in the league Kobe is looking for someone else's **** to ride. Dwight Howard anyone?
[QUOTE=iDefend5]Ah typical ISH. Someone gets butthurt so they immedietly attack the persons favorite team/player even when it's irrelevant to the discussion. Pretty sure OP doesn't have LeBron ranked over Duncan either so I don't see how this is to gain credibility for LeBron.
Duncan is clearly better. That Odin guy posted a great image. Duncans team has consistantly been 50 wins+ since he was drafted and the ONLY constant on the roster has been Tim Duncan. Kobe proved when Shaq was traded he cannot carry teams as seen by his miraculous 0 playoff series victories post Shaq and pre-Gasol. Now that Gasol has declined and is no longer a top 3 bigman in the league Kobe is looking for someone else's **** to ride. Dwight Howard anyone?[/QUOTE]
The greatness of Kobe Bryant can no better be defined than the expectation that he should be good enough to win championships on his own. Kobe won 5 rings with one other HOF player per title team, if Duncan gets his 5 it will be 2 per title team for him. Are you telling me the contributions of Shaq OR Gasol are greater than Tony Parker AND Manu Ginobli. ? Do you see any other star players winning multiple championships with only one other star/HOF player?
[QUOTE=Lebron23]Finals MVP.[B] Robert Horry is a 7x Champion. [/B]Prime John Havlicek was also a good NBA player. His team won 9 NBA Championships, but you never see some jerk offs rank him ahead of Hakeem and Bird. LeBron will win an NBA Finals MVP. He's better than that @$$hole.[/QUOTE]
/thread
I have Kobe above Duncan. Why because Parker was clearly the best player on the Spurs for the last two Championships that they won. :confusedshrug:
It is what it is...
just be glad you're enjoying an era that included shaq/duncan/kobe/lebron/wade/dwight/yao/tmac/vince c/iverson.:bowdown: :bowdown: lets worry about the rankings in like 10 years.
[QUOTE=amfirst]I have Kobe above Duncan. Why because [B]Parker was clearly the best player on the Spurs for the last two Championships that they won[/B]. :confusedshrug:
It is what it is...[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
[QUOTE=amfirst]I have Kobe above Duncan. Why because Parker was clearly the best player on the Spurs for the last two Championships that they won. :confusedshrug:
It is what it is...[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://static.tumblr.com/crw0vck/IPYlz2tmn/sexyjack.gif[/IMG]
[QUOTE=konex]I've also seen Manu. He's the 2nd best player on the team, not Duncan ;)[/QUOTE]
Some of you Kobe fans must have started watching the Spurs in the OKC series. Y'all missed the whole regular season and the first 2 rounds.
As far as Parker being the best player on the past TWO championships - bite your tongue. Unlike Kobe, who was the man on 2 championships, Duncan was THE MAN on all four championships.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow][URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2001_WCF.html"]2001[/URL], [URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2002_WCS.html"]2002[/URL], [URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2004_WCS.html"]2004[/URL], [URL="http://www.basketball-reference.com/playoffs/NBA_2008_WCF.html"]2008[/URL].[/QUOTE]
I get it, 4 Kobe finals, with finals MVP's being Shaq twice, Billups and Pierce.
GOAT without a doubt.
Oh you were trying to use a TEAM achievement against Duncan? Double fail i guess.
[QUOTE=Blue&Orange]I get it, 4 Kobe finals, with finals MVP's being Shaq twice, Billups and Pierce.
GOAT without a doubt.
Oh you were trying to use a TEAM achievement against Duncan? Double fail i guess.[/QUOTE]
Tell me, who was the 2nd best team in '01?
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow][IMG]http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1600/kobepotd.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Yeah, Kobe Bryant is by far the most popular player. Who would even argue that? Of course he's gonna win a online poll.
[QUOTE=amfirst]I have Kobe above Duncan. [B]Why because Parker was clearly the best player on the Spurs for the last two Championships that they won.[/B] :confusedshrug:
It is what it is...[/QUOTE]
This is beyond hilarious. :oldlol: You MUST have done this on purpose.
It's understandable to rank Kobe above Duncan but I probably have Duncan ranked ahead of Kobe in the all-time list. They're neck and neck in my opinion but I would give Duncan the slight edge.
I'm assuming the main reason why people rank Kobe ahead of Duncan is because of how much better Kobe was offensively than Duncan. Duncan was better than Kobe at every other aspect of the game though.
Duncan has the intangibles advantage over Kobe as well.
I always find it funny when Kobe fans argue that Kobe is this loyal guy that isn't a locker room problem when this guy was begging for a trade in 2007 and 2008 before Gasol came to LA.
I have Duncan over Kobe, most in the media would disagree, and I can see a bit of a case for Kobe, even though Kobe's true prime was from '03-'09, imo, he was already pretty comprable to a prime Duncan in '01, and to a lesser extent '02.
[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Yup. Plus Kobe was every bit as much as the man as Shaq in the 4th quarters of the '01 and '02 championships.
He led the Lakers in 4th quarter points those two postseasons[/QUOTE]
Well, 4th quarters weren't really a big factor in the '01 playoffs, neither did anything special in the 4th during that run because neither had to. Kobe did step up and have great 4th quarters in the '02 run, though, and it was important because Shaq struggled in the 4th during a good chunk of that run, especially the '02 series where he was the MVP of a series featuring the 2 best players in the league(Shaq and Duncan), and had great 4th quarters, while both Shaq and Duncan struggled offensively in the 4th.
The one difference about Kobe in '01 and '02 compared to his recent runs, or Duncan's runs, is that Kobe usually faced single coverage and wasn't the primary focus of opposing team's defenses. But his production and status in the league at the time(top 3) makes it difficult to write off as simply a "sidekick" ring.
Same with others like McHale in '86(25/8/3, 2.4 bpg, 58 FG%, + great defensive, especially on Nique).
[QUOTE=StateOfMind12]It's understandable to rank Kobe above Duncan but I probably have Duncan ranked ahead of Kobe in the all-time list. They're neck and neck in my opinion but I would give Duncan the slight edge.
I'm assuming the main reason why people rank Kobe ahead of Duncan is because of how much better Kobe was offensively than Duncan. Duncan was better than Kobe at every other aspect of the game though.
Duncan has the intangibles advantage over Kobe as well.
I always find it funny when Kobe fans argue that Kobe is this loyal guy that isn't a locker room problem when this guy was begging for a trade in 2007 and 2008 before Gasol came to LA.[/QUOTE]
He is a locker room problem because he created the pressure that resulted in trading for Gasol which led to 2 more championships?
If Kobe had Duncan's demeanor the Lakers would probably still be trotting out Smush Parker and Kwame Brown.
Top 10 ranks are heavily influenced by opinion and what accomplishments are most important to someone...
I personally have Kobe>Duncan>Shaq just to name those 3. Duncan is great... but in my eyes what Kobe does and has been doing for so long simply amazes me.