Anthropomorphic Measurement of NBA bigmen 60s/70s vs Modern NBA era

Random measurements I've uncovered.

[B]Bill Russell[/B] - Center
Height w/o shoes: [B]6-9.63"[/B]
Wingspan: 7-4
Standing Reach w/o shoes: ~9-4
Hand Length: 10.5"
Hand Width: 9.5"
Career weight range: 215-240lbs

[B]Wilt Chamberlain[/B] - Center
Height w/o shoes [B]7-1.06"[/B]
Wingspan 7-8
Standing Reach w/o shoes ~9-6
Hand Length 9.5"
Hand Width 11.5"
Career weight range: 258-320lbs

[B]Walt Bellamy[/B] - Center
Height w/o shoes: [B]6-10.5"[/B]
Career weight range: 225-245lbs

[B]Jerry Lucas[/B] - Power Forward / Center
Height w/o shoes: [B]6-7.5"[/B]
Career weight range: 230-235lbs

[B]Nate Thurmond[/B] - Center
Height w/o shoes: [B]6-11"[/B]
Career weight range: 229-240lbs
[B]
Willis Reed[/B] - Center
Height w/o shoes: [B]6-9.5"[/B]
Career weight range: 235-245lbs

[B]Wes Unseld[/B] - Center
Height w/o shoes: [B]6-7.5"[/B]
Career weight range: 245-260lbs

[B]Elvin Hayes[/B] - Power Forward / Center
Height w/o shoes: [B]6-9.5"[/B]
Wingspan: 7-2"
Career weight range: 235-240lbs

[B]Kareem Abdul-Jabbar[/B] - Center
Height w/o shoes: [B]7-1.88"[/B]
Wingspan: 7-5"
Career weight range: 225-267lbs

[B]Dave Cowens[/B] - Center
Height w/o shoes: [B]6-8.5"[/B]

[B]Artis Gilmore[/B] - Center
Height w/o shoes: [B]7-1.31"[/B]
Career weight range: 240-290lbs



For comparison here's a random assortment of modern bigs height:

David Robinson
7-0"

Shaquille O'Neal
7-0.88"

Ben Wallace
6-7"

Tyson Chandler
6-11.5"

Carlos Boozer
6-7.75"

Dwight Howard
6-9"

Emeka Okafur
6-8.75"

Andrew Bynum
7-0.25"

Andrew Bogut
6-11

Kevin Love
6-7.75"

Javale McGee
6-11"

Joakim Noah
6-10.5"

DeAndre Jordan
6-9.75"

Tristan Thompson
6-7.75"

Bismack Biyombo
6-8.31"

Anthony Davis
6-9.25"

Andre Drummond
6-9.75"

Pau Gasol
7-0"

For more:
[url]www.draftexpress.com/measurements[/url]


So are there people out there that still believe that the 60's/70's was an undersized era and that Russ/Wilt etc wouldn't last today due to their size because "the modern era is full of legit 7 footers"? List heights today appear to greatly inflate modern player heights. And I'm actually starting to believe the opposite was true of past player list heights (note: Russell, Hayes, Unseld all listed equal too or more than 1/2 inch shorter than their actual barefoot height - something that no players in the modern NBA draft have done)

Today's era isn't filled with capable 7 footers. But what it is filled with is insanely athletic players from 6ft to 6-9 or so.

Kwame Brown....

Season high 23pts/13 rebounds against the Heat in 11.

[QUOTE=PickernRoller]Kwame Brown....

Season high 23pts/13 rebounds against the Heat in 11.[/QUOTE]

[B]Kwame Brown[/B] - Center
Height w/o shoes: 6-10"
Wingspan: 7-1"
Standing reach w/o shoes: 8-10.5"
Hand length: [SIZE="1"]extremely small[/SIZE]
Hand width: [SIZE="1"]extremely small[/SIZE]
Career weight range: 243lbs-270lbs

One thing that is true is we have those tall Eastern Europeans in the league today.

[QUOTE=Kevin_Gamble]One thing that is true is we have those tall Eastern Europeans in the league today.[/QUOTE]
Sure, it makes up for the now virtually extinct (yet genetically identical) numerous Caucasian American's of the 60's/70's. Such as Swede Halbrook ~7-3 / Phil Jackson ~ 6-8 etc. Seriously, when looking at true anthropomorphic measurements (not B.S. list heights) I see no pattern of players getting taller today vs then.

At their heaviest, Bellamy, Thurmond, Reed, Unseld and probably Hayes must have been heavier than these reported numbers.

[QUOTE=Psileas]At their heaviest, Bellamy, Thurmond, Reed, Unseld and probably Hayes must have been heavier than these reported numbers.[/QUOTE]
Those are the heaviest numbers I could find printed in the newspapers of all of them, they actually seem quite reasonable too me, players today are just heavier than players back than that's the one real difference and I think that's due to the pressure of trainers insisting players play heavier today (which I think kills players health but w/e). Javale McGee was 228lbs, Anthony Davis 222, Kevin Garnett under 220, and David Robinson 226 in their early 20's/rookie seasons. Kareem was a 225lb rookie and only 235 all throughout the 70's (though at one point I think he peaked at 240). In an era where running up and down the floor is favorable 240-260lbs players are huge. Had they played today they'd be heavier sure but unless there's seasons where they got overweight that I don't know about those numbers don't look too off base IMO relative to their competition.

What you don take in considerations here, is that not only are you only taking an handful of C from back then (11 over a span of 30 years) but that you aren't considering that players nowadays are stronger, faster and are way more athletic than back then. On average of course but also at the very top. D12 and Shaq are on a whole another level physic wise than anyone. Bar maybe Wilt "I was born 40 years too soon" Chamberlain.

Not hating or anything on the oldschool era, but I refuse to believe Basketball's level of the contemporany era doesn't outclass the oldschool era. That's the evolution of the game.

[QUOTE=Punpun]What you don take in considerations here, is that not only are you only taking an handful of C from back then (11 over a span of 30 years) but that you aren't considering that players nowadays are stronger, faster and are way more athletic than back then. On average of course but also at the very top. D12 and Shaq are on a whole another level physic wise than anyone. Bar maybe Wilt "I was born 40 years too soon".[/QUOTE]

11 random centers... Including Unseld who is well known as the shortest one of that entire era and excluding the tallest ones like Swede Halbrook. And are you absolutely clueless about who these guys are I listed? D12 and Shaq are no greater athletes by any definition of the word than Russell, Wilt, or Gilmore. And Thurmond/Bellamy/Kareem wouldn't take an athletic backseat to anybody Dwight faces :roll:


Russell
[IMG]http://fc04.deviantart.net/fs70/f/2012/138/7/f/russdunkolympics_by_dantheman9758-d506gc1.gif[/IMG]

Thurmond
[IMG]http://i833.photobucket.com/albums/zz259/HolyGrailSports/1970s-NateThurmond.jpg[/IMG]
[IMG]http://i40.tinypic.com/292xmra.jpg[/IMG]


Bellamy
[IMG]https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-MhARdlGg1Vs/T02VnX5ZcRI/AAAAAAAADF0/MoZrZpaJvts/s640/490aa01c-282b-4dbc-b2c4-03dfff0f98f3_lg.jpg[/IMG]
fastbreak dunk
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4ee2Ag5GeMQ&t=12m56s[/url]

Damn, Nate was on something back then... or really just ate his greens.

:oldlol:

Oh god are you trying to imply those guys are only 11 eanoms center ? Do you really wanna go down that road ?

:yaohappy:

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]Damn, Nate was on something back then... or really just ate his greens.

:oldlol:[/QUOTE]

I think it's genetics, some people are just naturally ripped, David Robinson was like that. Than you have the antithesis of them like Duncan/Pierce/Melo :lol

[QUOTE=Punpun]Oh god are you trying to imply those guys are only 11 [B]eanoms[/B] center ? Do you really wanna go down that road ?

:yaohappy:[/QUOTE]

?

Not sure what road you speak of. Anthropomorphic measurements look very much the same today as they did back then. How can you dispute it? The numbers are right there in front of you, and I conclude the more I find the more it's only going to support that genetically, nothing has changed among athletes then vs now - sry if it kills your modern NBA hero's. Humans haven't evolved in 40 years. The game of basketball has changed in a lot of ways yes, but those athletes back then? Pretty sure those are still the same kinds of people in the same shapes and sizes and varieties as the ones that are playing today.

No way. And for a good reason. Just look at track and field. Athlete now are way better than back then. And the 11 centers you listed were freaks of nature. 11 freaks in 30 years. Most of them would have normal size nowadays. And be less strong, less athletic etc.

[QUOTE]"Bill Russell - Center
Height w/o shoes: [B]6-9.63[/B]"
Wingspan: 7-4
Standing Reach w/o shoes: ~9-4
Hand Length: 10.5"
Hand Width: 9.5"
Career weight range: [B]215[/B]-240lbs"[/QUOTE]

durant's 235 and about the same height.

imagine durant playing center.

[QUOTE=Punpun]No way. And for a good reason. Just look at track and field. Athlete now are way better than back then. And the 11 centers you listed were freaks of nature. 11 freaks in 30 years. Most of them would have normal size nowadays. And be less strong, less athletic etc.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm Whaaaaaat?

Please, I seriously would appreciate if you watched this and got back to me to tell me the guys I mentioned are "freaks". Look at Bill Bridges, and Zelmo Beaty and Leroy Ellis, and Gene Wiley and all the other centers playing in the league that I did not mention. Then consider that this footage is only the early/mid 60's, of 4 or 5 teams, from 5 or 6 games. Are these guys all freaks too? The guys I listed are simply the guys I found anthropomorphic measurements for, they are random and they include (as mentioned) Wes Unseld, the midget center of that era - far from a "freak" specimen aside from his low center of gravity.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZWVi0EtJcZg[/url]

Are you still trying to argue Russel, Wilt, KAJ, to only cite them, are randoms C ? :oldlol:

It's funny how all athelte have volved much stronger, faster etc. in every single sports BUT BASKET. That is, according to you. And that's laughable. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=DCL]durant's 235 and about the same height.

imagine durant playing center.[/QUOTE]

1. Durant is a freak, no argument there.

2. Your numbers? False.

[url]http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kevin-Durant-390/[/url]

And I do believe he put on at least 10lbs, but I don't think he weighs 235. That's how big David Robinson was in his prime. Durant is not that heavy, especially considering he's no where near the bulk Robinson was and Robinson was 7-0 barefoot, vs ~6-9-6-10 that Durant is (my guess is Durant grew to maybe 6-9.5)

[QUOTE=Punpun]Are you still trying to argue Russel, Wilt, KAJ, to only cite them, are randoms C ? :oldlol:

It's funny how all athelte have volved much stronger, faster etc. in every single sports BUT BASKET. That is, according to you. And that's laughable. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Oh I'm sorry did I not include any analagous "freaks" from this own era on the very same post? Shaq? Biyombo? Howard? McGee? :roll: cry me a river dude

The "NBA has bigger players now" and "NBA has bigger players than Euroleague" crap is just all NBA marketing and propaganda.

It's not true. The Euroleague players are freaking taller than NBA players. Not to mention that the current NBA centers absolutely suck.

It's just NBA marketing.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Those are the heaviest numbers I could find printed in the newspapers of all of them, they actually seem quite reasonable too me, players today are just heavier than players back than that's the one real difference and I think that's due to the pressure of trainers insisting players play heavier today (which I think kills players health but w/e). Javale McGee was 228lbs, Anthony Davis 222, Kevin Garnett under 220, and David Robinson 226 in their early 20's/rookie seasons. Kareem was a 225lb rookie and only 235 all throughout the 70's (though at one point I think he peaked at 240). In an era where running up and down the floor is favorable 240-260lbs players are huge. Had they played today they'd be heavier sure but unless there's seasons where they got overweight that I don't know about those numbers don't look too off base IMO relative to their competition.[/QUOTE]

I'll put it another way (to relate better to some competition from the same era): I find it hard to believe that Jerry Lucas at his heaviest was a measly 5 lbs lighter than Nate Thurmond at his heaviest or 10 lbs lighter than the heaviest Willis Reed, unless I missed some version of Lucas I never knew about. These are guys who were both taller and thicker than him.
Wes Unseld's weight seems more plausible, but Unseld was only a hair above 6'7.

[QUOTE=Punpun]What you don take in considerations here, is that not only are you only taking an handful of C from back then (11 over a span of 30 years) but that you aren't considering that players nowadays [B]are stronger, faster and are way more athletic than back then.[/B] On average of course but also at the very top. D12 and Shaq are on a whole another level physic wise than anyone. Bar maybe Wilt "I was born 40 years too soon" Chamberlain.

Not hating or anything on the oldschool era, but I refuse to believe Basketball's level of the contemporany era doesn't outclass the oldschool era. That's the evolution of the game.[/QUOTE]

I hate to break it to you, but this is pure bull shit. Just like it's pure bull shit that NBA players are all bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic than Euroleague players.

Anyone that believes this crap is a dumb ass.

It's just total bull shit that comes from NBA marketing and the sports media that has contracts with the NBA. People that believe this shit are morons.

Also, you seem to confuse "bigger and stronger" with more drug abuse. NBA players use drugs more now than they did in the 60s and 70s.

[QUOTE=DCL]durant's 235 and about the same height.

imagine durant playing center.[/QUOTE]

Are you saying that you actually believe the NBA heights and weights are accurate?

Durant is in no way in hell 235 pounds.

Cavalier, how does it feel to have the same opinion as Euroleague, the most obvious troll on insidehoops ? :yaohappy:

Ps : You have yet to address the fact that, according ot you, all athelte in EVERY sports got mot atheltic etc but in Bball.

[QUOTE=Punpun]Cavalier, how does it feel to have the same opinion as Euroleague, the most obvious troll on insidehoops ? :yaohappy

Ps : You have yet to address the fact that, according ot you, all athelte in EVERY sports got mot atheltic etc but in Bball.[/QUOTE]

You are a dumb ass.

Athletes have not all gotten more athletic. People that believe this really are stupid.

When peoplee mention West,Wilt, Kareem, Worthy, Magic, Russell, Unseld... They forget these guys were considered freaks in diff ways. West had borderline wingspan that a Rondo has! it was unheard of then.

Players are definitely longer on average. IF you were 6'6 in 1970s with a 6'10 Wingspan, it was CRAZY now you got 6'6 players with 7'1 wingspans

[QUOTE=PP34Deuce]When peoplee mention West,Wilt, Kareem, Worthy, Magic, Russell, Unseld... They forget these guys were considered freaks in diff ways. West had borderline wingspan that a Rondo has! [B]it was unheard of then.[/B]

Players are definitely longer on average. IF you were 6'6 in 1970s with a 6'10 Wingspan, it was CRAZY now you got 6'6 players with 7'1 wingspans[/QUOTE]
False. I frequently come across other players in other articles or interviews who also had long wingspans regardless of their impact on the league. Such as John Havlicek, or Satch Sanders whom I've now read had a 7-1 wingspan (despite only being likely ~6-6 barefoot, an inch shorter than Scottie Pippen yet with the same armspan), Cousy is oft mentioned as having long arms and long fingers and he himself said "you've got to be some what of a freak to play this game", and Sam Jones and Satch Sanders were talking about some joe-blow roleplayer named Rudy Larusso for his long wingspan while re-watching one of their old finals games. And are we just going to forget about Phil Jackson too? The long wingspan prototype for good basketball players does not appear strictly reserved for the stars in the 60's at all, it actually appears to have been well established and randomly distributed in the 60's among all types of players including role players and bench warmers. Jerry West's wingspan is certainly noted [I]nowadays[/I] but by no means does any material from that era paint the idea that he was some unheard of freak. In old articles/videos/interviews his wingspan is mentioned [I]no more often than a variety of other players back then.[/I] I don't know where you people get your info about public perception of these guys - I seriously think most of you make it up in your imagination.

Watch my 1964/65 video I posted if you don't believe me. Jim King on the Lakers "perhaps the fastest guard in the league" (also, he dunks his footwork is :eek: and has very large hands and he's only 6-2). Leroy Ellis, "perhaps the fastest man in the league" also on the Lakers roster, he's ~6-10 and you can see in the footage the dude is a physical freak athlete. Yet both King and Ellis never amounted to anything beyond roleplayers. No, the stars of that era were not freaks above and beyond everyone else no more so than Dwight Howard could be considered a freak above and beyond Javale McGee... You can be a freak but not a star in the 1960's just like today. The variety of specimens in the 60's does not appear to measurably differ from the variety of specimens found in the game today.

[img]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1100470.1340349051!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/image.jpg[/img]

[QUOTE=Euroleague]I hate to break it to you, but this is pure bull shit. Just like it's pure bull shit that NBA players are all bigger, stronger, faster, more athletic than Euroleague players.

Anyone that believes this crap is a dumb ass.

It's just total bull shit that comes from NBA marketing and the sports media that has contracts with the NBA. People that believe this shit are morons.

Also, you seem to confuse "bigger and stronger" with more drug abuse. NBA players use drugs more now than they did in the 60s and 70s.[/QUOTE]

:oldlol: No one is talking about Euroleague players. This is a comparison between modern era NBA vs the past NBA, yet somehow you manage to slip in Euroleague agenda. I love it!

[QUOTE=Lebron23][img]http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1100470.1340349051!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/landscape_635/image.jpg[/img][/QUOTE]
and?

[QUOTE=Psileas]I'll put it another way (to relate better to some competition from the same era): I find it hard to believe that Jerry Lucas at his heaviest was a measly 5 lbs lighter than Nate Thurmond at his heaviest or 10 lbs lighter than the heaviest Willis Reed, unless I missed some version of Lucas I never knew about. These are guys who were both taller and thicker than him.
Wes Unseld's weight seems more plausible, but Unseld was only a hair above 6'7.[/QUOTE]
It's possible, I'm only going by the recorded info I've turned up - if you've got a hunch there's some wider gaps or variation in their weights I'm sure it's possible that they peaked slightly higher and I'm missing it. The gist of what I'm getting at though, is that there really doesn't appear to be any measurable size differences of bigmen then vs bigmen now (specifically I mean length/height), the exact same size players are being drafted today - they just are getting [I]listed[/I] taller.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Random measurements I've uncovered.

[B]Bill Russell[/B] - Center
Height w/o shoes: [B]6-9.63"[/B]
Wingspan: 7-4
Standing Reach w/o shoes: ~9-4
Hand Length: 10.5"
Hand Width: 9.5"
Career weight range: 215-240lbs[/QUOTE]

In an interview at the 2009 All-Star Game, Bill Russell said he started his career at 215lb and ended it at 228lb.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCFm8RRTjYQ[/url]

2 minutes 10 seconds onwards.

[QUOTE=WillC]In an interview at the 2009 All-Star Game, Bill Russell said he started his career at 215lb and ended it at 228lb.

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jCFm8RRTjYQ[/url]

2 minutes 10 seconds onwards.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, I've posted that video on this site before. When he mentions 228 I believe he's referring to the end of that final season [I]after being played into shape[/I]. Months prior I have an article about him entering that final season 10lbs overweight after vacationing in Hollywood all summer (and his playing weight from '66-'69 was an otherwise steady 230 just like the 228 alludes too). Also, when Russell was fully healthy, and in his prime in the earlier 60's - his body mass was oft printed between 222-225lbs. In his first few seasons it is printed between 215-218lbs.

[QUOTE=Punpun]No way. And for a good reason. Just look at track and field. Athlete now are way better than back then. And the 11 centers you listed were freaks of nature. 11 freaks in 30 years. Most of them would have normal size nowadays. And be less strong, less athletic etc.[/QUOTE]


Humans haven't improved that much (if any ) athletically since the 60's idiot. Maybe training,techniques & equipment have improved ,but not humans.

And you really gonna used dope infested track & field to make your point?

Ask todays long jumpers about inferior 60's athlete's like Bob Beamon whom they can't touch.


Jim Hines 1960's world record in the 100 meter was safe until the 80's & most sprinters breaking the record since then have been proven to be dopeheads.

Hines wr 1968

Calvin Smith wr 1983(clean more than likely)

Ben Johnson 1988 wr(steroids)


Mo Greene's (admits to buying drugs but not using them:oldlol: )

Tim Montgomery(busted / steroids)

Justin Gatlin ( busted)

Linford .Christie(dope head)

That's just a few wr holders & champions


Females

Marion Jones admits to 8 years of passed test while she was doping

Flo Jo never failed ,but looked like a Transvestite with very suspicious improvements

Evelyn Ashford (1983) is probably still the 'clean' women's record over 30 years ago.


Bob Beamon says shtfu:facepalm

Are you trying to say The runner of now are doped ? I sure hop you can back that up. Aka, your rant is so not pertinent it's freaking funny you believe you succeeded in proving something.

:yaohappy:

[QUOTE=Punpun]Are you trying to say The runner of now are doped ? I sure hop you can back that up. Aka, your rant is so not pertinent it's freaking funny you believe you succeeded in proving something.

:yaohappy:[/QUOTE]

I dunno how familiar you think you are with Elite level track & field but almost all the sprinters use steroids or PEDs in one way or another. Do you really think Shawn Crawford doesn't run any events between Olympic qualifiers to simply rest? He must have got his body to look like that via hard work & lots of Gatoraide huh?

International Track & Field is essentially 90s baseball & has been since the early 80s.

punpun = ****tard

So many butthurt guys. I'm still waiting for your concrete proof of what you are blaberring. ELse it's just libel.

[QUOTE=Punpun]So many butthurt guys. I'm still waiting for your concrete proof of what you are blaberring. ELse it's just libel.[/QUOTE]


What are you talking about?? Ben Johnson was busted for roids in the late 80's, and Marion Jones had to give back her gold medals and was fined until she was broke. Florence Griffith Joyner was always suspected cuz she went from average sprinter to top of the food chain in a heartbeat and became ripped as hell. Let's throw Lance Armstrong in there as well.

Are you this naive?? :hammerhead: