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:facepalm .
Sam Amick reporting that Neil Olshey offered Hibbert the max deal tonight. Obviously Pacers will match but wow. Dude only made an all star team last year because Horford was out and Pacers had a great improvement. 13 ppg, 9 rpg is not max money and he hasn't really improved as a pro very much.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]:facepalm .
Sam Amick reporting that Neil Olshey offered Hibbert the max deal tonight. Obviously Pacers will match but wow. Dude only made an all star team last year because Horford was out and Pacers had a great improvement. 15.5 ppg, 10.5 rpg is not max money and he hasn't really improved as a pro. Statistically over 4 seasons he's actually regressed.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
Can only imagine what McGee, Asik, etc will get
When will this trend of overpaying centers and big men in general stop? This is really dumb. Max deal for a guy that wouldn't be able to carry a team by himself? :facepalm
Clippers swept in second round. :lol
[QUOTE=Trentknicks]:facepalm
Can only imagine what McGee, Asik, etc will get[/QUOTE]
I mean we know DeAndre and other bigs got overpaid bad... but damn man. Max deal for not even all star caliber center (if Horford was healthy as I said he wouldn't have made it). I agree though bigs are overpaid as fu**.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]:facepalm .
Sam Amick reporting that Neil Olshey offered Hibbert the max deal tonight. Obviously Pacers will match but wow. Dude only made an all star team last year because Horford was out and Pacers had a great improvement. 15.5 ppg, 10.5 rpg is not max money and he hasn't really improved as a pro. [b]Statistically over 4 seasons he's actually regressed.[/b][/QUOTE]
please explain to me how he's regressed statistically over his 4 seasons
[QUOTE=Quizno]please explain to me how he's regressed statistically over his 4 seasons[/QUOTE]
Career low in almost every statistic last year. His first season was arguably his best. You figure it out :confusedshrug: . At worst he's stayed the same which doesn't sound like a young player you give a max deal to if he's already not a true all star caliber player to begin with. I group him with borderline all star caliber players like Rudy Gay etc.
Wow indiana will match but still ridiculous money.
he's the best big on the market so it's no surprise he was going to get offered a max contract. quit looking at inflated per 36 numbers. hasn't improved as a pro? so becoming more polished in the post means nothing? his playoff numbers: 11.7 points, 11.2 rebounds and 3.1 blocks. he also commanded a ton of doubles this past year.
he's not a max level guy in a vacuum but it's the market that dictates the price and he's arguably the 3rd best FA on the market. bigs are a commodity these days and in general the top 2-3 FAs get offered a max deal just about every year, even if it's not warranted.
And these will be the same owners yelling small markets can't compete :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm
[QUOTE=blacknapalm]he's the best big on the market so it's no surprise he was going to get offered a max contract. quit looking at inflated per 36 numbers. hasn't improved as a pro? so becoming more polished in the post means nothing? his playoff numbers: 11.7 points, 11.2 rebounds and 3.1 blocks. he also commanded a ton of doubles this past year.[/QUOTE]
Didn't use PER 36 at all. Yea.. he's added more polish but what's the value on that if his raw production is the same or lower? Bottom line is dude isn't a legit all star therefor he CAN'T be worth max money :confusedshrug: . Nothing to argue. I agree he draws doubles and is a very nice player but the bottom line here is MAX player. I think maybe 10-15 players tops in the NBA are worth max money at any given time. Hibbert is nowhere near a marketable player, nor a top 20 talent so it doesn't fit.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Career low in almost every statistic last year. His first season was arguably his best. You figure it out :confusedshrug: . At worst he's stayed the same which doesn't sound like a young player you give a max deal to if he's already not a true all star caliber player to begin with. I group him with borderline all star caliber players like Rudy Gay etc.[/QUOTE]
i guess you're looking at per 36 stats. fair enough, but last season was clearly his best. he was a game changing player and, as usual, stats don't tell the whole story. it's like saying blake griffin regressed last season because his stats weren't quite as good as his rookie season when he was clearly at least a bit better
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]I mean we know DeAndre and other bigs got overpaid bad... but damn man. Max deal for not even all star caliber center (if Horford was healthy as I said he wouldn't have made it). I agree though bigs are overpaid as fu**.[/QUOTE]
DeAndre's contract is bad, but he didn't get wildy overpaid and got his money because of the lack of big men but also because of the potential/improvement he showed. Unlikely, but he could develop and earn his money.
I just don't see that with Hibbert, shouldn't have been an all star. No way he could ever earn it, but damn Blazers. I know they are dying for a big man to pair with LMA but a contract like this could cripple the organisation for years.
Indiana are screwed either way :lol The Blazers will have a crazy front court though :bowdown:
:wtf: They aren't planning to re-sign JJ Hickson?
7'2 Center that has nothing but a bright future, especially in a league where good centers are rare
I'll do it
[QUOTE=Quizno]i guess you're looking at per 36 stats. fair enough, but last season was clearly his best. he was a game changing player and, as usual, stats don't tell the whole story. it's like saying blake griffin regressed last season because his stats weren't quite as good as his rookie season when he was clearly at least a bit better[/QUOTE]
Actually not using advanced stats. Just remember his overall raw numbers were down across the board this year, but didn't look it up on BR or anything right now. I agree he's a game changer, top 5 center and very valuable guy. It's specifically the MAX player thing that shocks me. I'm not trying to be a hypocrite here because DeAndre Jordan for example who's far worse is insanely overpaid at 11 mill a year. Thing is... this guy is looking at what 17 mill a year or something?
This overpaying to steal players or force teams to match is getting old. Clippers actually tried to pay DeAndre 8 mill a year and bitch ass Golden State drove the price up to 11.
[QUOTE=ispin69]:wtf: They aren't planning to re-sign JJ Hickson?[/QUOTE]
Nope. They didn't give him qualifying. He's unrestricted and unwanted by Portland.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Actually not using advanced stats. Just remember his overall raw numbers were down across the board this year, but didn't look it up on BR or anything right now. I agree he's a game changer, top 5 center and very valuable guy. It's specifically the MAX player thing that shocks me. I'm not trying to be a hypocrite here because DeAndre Jordan for example who's far worse is insanely overpaid at 11 mill a year. Thing is... this guy is looking at what 17 mill a year or something?
This overpaying to steal players or force teams to match is getting old. Clippers actually tried to pay DeAndre 8 mill a year and bitch ass Golden State drove the price up to 11.[/QUOTE]
his numbers were completely up across the board, except assists which went from 2.0 to 1.7. points, rebounds, blocks, steals, fta, and fg% were all career highs
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hibbero01.html[/url]
[QUOTE=Quizno]i guess you're looking at per 36 stats. fair enough, but last season was clearly his best. he was a game changing player and, as usual, stats don't tell the whole story. it's like saying blake griffin regressed last season because his stats weren't quite as good as his rookie season when he was clearly at least a bit better[/QUOTE]
Regardless, you're arguing a mute point. Yes, I agree Clippersfan is exaggerating a bit when saying Hibbert has gotten progressively worst each year, however Hibbert, nonetheless, is NOT a max-type player. If 11 and 11 in the playoffs gets your max money these days, the league is going to lose ALOT of teams to financial suicide, ESPECIALLY with the new penalties of the CBA.
[QUOTE=Quizno]his numbers were completely up across the board, except assists which went from 2.0 to 1.7. points, rebounds, blocks, steals, fta, and fg% were all career highs
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hibbero01.html[/url][/QUOTE]
Ah.... problem solved. I WAS apparently remembering the PER 36 numbers when I looked at them couple days ago. My bad on that.... I was wondering WTF you guys were talking about when two of you mentioned PER 36. Either way though we can probably agree that improvements have been small and slow.. which isn't what you want in a young, max player.
You gave a good example of Griffin's stats dropping despite him polishing his game in actuality and that applies to Hibbert 100 percent. I just don't think he produces enough, nor is marketable enough to deserve this.
I only think this is stupid because Portland already drafted a Center out of U of I in the lottery.
What is the point of drafting him if you are just going to offer/sign another Center in the free agent for the max? :confusedshrug:
but yeah i think hibbert deserves 10-11 mil/year max, bigs are definitely overpaid
[QUOTE=Quizno]but yeah i think hibbert deserves 10-11 mil/year max, bigs are definitely overpaid[/QUOTE]
Just like DJ deserved 7-8 mill max. Unfortunately you have teams driving the price up big time and forcing teams to match. They need to fix that because it's annoying.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Ah.... problem solved. I WAS apparently remembering the PER 36 numbers when I looked at them couple days ago. My bad on that.... I was wondering WTF you guys were talking about when two of you mentioned PER 36. Either way though we can probably agree that improvements have been small and slow.. which isn't what you want in a young, max player.
You gave a good example of Griffin's stats dropping despite him polishing his game in actuality and that applies to Hibbert 100 percent. I just don't think he produces enough, nor is marketable enough to deserve this.[/QUOTE]
Improvements are still improvements, and far from regression, as you stated Hibbert had been experiencing.
[QUOTE=StateOfMind12]I only think this is stupid because Portland already drafted a Center out of U of I in the lottery.
What is the point of drafting him if you are just going to offer/sign another Center in the free agent for the max? :confusedshrug:[/QUOTE]
Portland was pretty bad in the draft. If they wanted a C they could have got Drummond for much cheaper.
[QUOTE=BlackVVaves]Improvements are still improvements, and far from regression, as you stated Hibbert had been experiencing.[/QUOTE]
Which is why I admitted my inaccurate statement. I retract it and go from saying regress to slow progression. Hibbert isn't a baby. He's a very skilled, polished player going into his 5th season that's always had a skill based game. He was never raw like Griffin where he needs a lot of time to really put it together.
Nothing has indicated high upside or big leap in improvement.
Blazers trolling the Pacers big time
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:
[quote=Clippersfan86]:facepalm .
Sam Amick reporting that Neil Olshey offered Hibbert the max deal tonight. Obviously Pacers will match but wow. Dude only made an all star team last year because Horford was out and Pacers had a great improvement. 15.5 ppg, 10.5 rpg is not max money and he hasn't really improved as a pro. Statistically over 4 seasons he's actually regressed.[/quote]This is just straight ignorance. The guy's gotten better every single year.
Anyway, as a Pacers fan, this is good. It means once we match it's 4.5% annual raises instead of 7.5%.
Hibbert's numbers went down this year because of David West.
If the Pacers lose Hibbert, then who do they have to play center?
Accordingly to the market of DeAndre Jordan getting 10.5 million, he's definitely worth a max level deal.
Plus bigs often do get better with age.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Career low in almost every statistic last year. His first season was arguably his best. You figure it out :confusedshrug: . At worst he's stayed the same which doesn't sound like a young player you give a max deal to if he's already not a true all star caliber player to begin with. I group him with borderline all star caliber players like Rudy Gay etc.[/QUOTE]
Don't know where you get your stats, but last year he had career highs in points, rebounds, FG%, blocks and steals. He also commited fewer fouls and turnovers than the year before.
Oh and his rookie season was definitely the worst of his career.
You consider him the level of Rudy Gay, how much does he make???
[QUOTE=InspiredLebowski]This is just straight ignorance. The guy's gotten better every single year.
Anyway, as a Pacers fan, this is good. It means once we match it's 4.5% annual raises instead of 7.5%.[/QUOTE]
Why didn't the Pacers trade up to draft John Jenkins?
Would have fixed the shooting guard problems.
[QUOTE=InspiredLebowski]This is just straight ignorance. The guy's gotten better every single year.
Anyway, as a Pacers fan, this is good. It means once we match it's 4.5% annual raises instead of 7.5%.[/QUOTE]
By how much? Not as much as any other star in the NBA that commands a max salary. Dude is going into his 5th season and is 25 years old. Funny thing is dude came into the league more polished than 99 percent of modern day bigmen yet he still hasn't improved at a good enough pace. What's more is physically dude has an advantage over pretty much everybody being 7'2" 280 pounds.
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]Which is why I admitted my inaccurate statement. I retract it and go from saying regress to slow progression. Hibbert isn't a baby. He's a very skilled, polished player going into his 5th season that's always had a skill based game. He was never raw like Griffin where he needs a lot of time to really put it together.
Nothing has indicated high upside or big leap in improvement.[/QUOTE]
I think with more touches he could probably put up 18 PPG. He has to be more assertive in the post, and make sure he establishes himself on the block earlier in the shot clock.
He's definitely the best big that's been available the last two off seasons (not including Dwight's "availability" the last year or so), so though he's certainly not worth a max contract, I can understand the reasoning to overpay him, considering guys like DJ get $10 million dollar just to sit on the bench in the fourth quarter and lose minutes to the likes of Reggie Evans in the playoffs.
He should get paid. Just not paid like he's a first ballot HoFer.
[quote=hawkfan]Why didn't the Pacers trade up to draft John Jenkins?
Would have fixed the shooting guard problems.[/quote]Because John Jenkins is Kyle Korver if he's lucky. They bought Orlando Johnson's who much, much better.
[QUOTE=ZenMaster]Don't know where you get your stats, but last year he had career highs in points, rebounds, FG%, blocks and steals. He also commited fewer fouls and turnovers than the year before.
Oh and his rookie season was definitely the worst of his career.
You consider him the level of Rudy Gay, how much does he make???[/QUOTE]
Gay also got a contract he didn't deserve and Grizzlies fans as well as others admit that. I'm not saying Roy WON'T get a max deal or won't get overpaid... doesn't mean every time it happens I'm not going to think it's ridiculous, just like any other fan. My point was, fringe all star (made it by default last year) doesn't deserve max deal, Gay included.
[QUOTE=BlackVVaves]I think with more touches he could probably put up 18 PPG. He has to be more assertive in the post, and make sure he establishes himself on the block earlier in the shot clock.
He's definitely the best big that's been available the last two off seasons (not including Dwight's "availability" the last year or so), so though he's certainly not worth a max contract, I can understand the reasoning to overpay him, considering guys like DJ get $10 million dollar just to sit on the bench in the fourth quarter and lose minutes to the likes of Reggie Evans in the playoffs.
He should get paid. Just not paid like he's a first ballot HoFer.[/QUOTE]
So we agree :confusedshrug: . You disagree with me about his potential but the idea that he will be far overpaid is something we agree on. I understand the whole big man premium deal but he should still be under max. What is the exact number for this contract anyways with new CBA? Like 4 years/60 mill or something?
[quote=Clippersfan86]By how much? Not as much as any other star in the NBA that commands a max salary. Dude is going into his 5th season and is 25 years old. Funny thing is dude came into the league more polished than 99 percent of modern day bigmen yet he still hasn't improved at a good enough pace. What's more is physically dude has an advantage over pretty much everybody being 7'2" 280 pounds.[/quote]You're just laughably wrong. He was embarrassing as a rookie, and well into his 2nd year. He wasn't polished in any way other than being big (and out of shape, which has been corrected).
If his improvement isn't a good enough pace then I don't know what the hell you expect. Paying Roy Hibbert ~13.5 mil next year isn't the problem. The problem is max contract that make him "comparable" to guys like Durant. There should be no "max" contract. That's an entirely different discussion though.
[QUOTE=InspiredLebowski]Because John Jenkins is Kyle Korver if he's lucky. They bought Orlando Johnson's who much, much better.[/QUOTE]
This guy was the ONLY player worth watching here at UCSB, hoping he'll get to see some playing time this season!
[QUOTE=Clippersfan86]So we agree :confusedshrug: . You disagree with me about his potential but the idea that he will be far overpaid is something we agree on. I understand the whole big man premium deal but he should still be under max. What is the exact number for this contract anyways with new CBA? Like 4 years/60 mill or something?[/QUOTE]
Yea pretty much :lol
Not sure about the contact, but it'll definitely weigh much heavier on the year to year salary, and just end sooner.