Definitive Proof of Extraterrestrials??

[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/09/26/us-mayan-idUSTRE78P4LK20110926[/url]

[QUOTE][SIZE="6"][B]Mayan film documentary claims proof of aliens[/B][/SIZE]


By Steve Pond

Mon Sep 26, 2011 2:33pm EDT

LOS ANGELES (TheWrap.com) -A new documentary about Mayan civilization will provide evidence of extraterrestrial contact with the ancient culture, according to a Mexican government official and the film's producer.

"Revelations of the Mayans 2012 and Beyond," currently in production, will claim the Mayans had contact with extraterrestrials, producer Raul Julia-Levy revealed to TheWrap.

"Mexico will release codices, artifacts and significant documents with evidence of Mayan and extraterrestrial contact, and all of their information will be corroborated by archaeologists," said Julia-Levy, son of actor Raul Julia.

In a release to TheWrap, Luis Augusto Garcia Rosado, the minister of tourism for the Mexican state of Campeche, said new evidence has emerged "of contact between the Mayans and extraterrestrials, supported by translations of certain codices, which the government has kept secure in underground vaults for some time."

He also spoke, in a phone conversation, of "landing pads in the jungle that are 3,000 years old."

Raul-Julia claims there is proof that the Mayans had intended to lead the planet for thousands of years, but were forced to escape after an invasion by "men of dark intentions," leaving behind evidence of an advanced race.

"The Mexican government is not making this statement on their own -- everything we say, we're going to back it up," he said.

The film will be directed by Juan Carlos Rulfo, who won the Humanitas Prize for "Those Who Remain" in 2009 and the Sundance Grand Jury Prize for International Documentary for "In the Pit" in 2006. Juan Diego Rodriguez Gonzalez will serve as the Guatemalan executive producer, and Eduardo Vertiz as the Mexican executive producer.

And yes, they expect people to take this seriously, because the messages he plans to impart are crucial to human survival, Julia-Levy insisted.

When Julia-Levy, producer Ed Elbert and co-producer Sheila McCarthy announced the Mexican cooperation with their documentary to TheWrap in August, they were circumspect about claims of alien contact, with Julia-Levy admitting he'd been ordered not to say anything about it.

Also for that article, Rosado brushed off a question about alien contact and said his country was simply offering the filmmakers' access to previously unexplored sections of a Mayan site at Calakmul.

Now, not only has Rosado changed his tune, but the Guatemalan government has joined the project, as well, giving access to artifacts and newly discovered prophecies

While the Guatemalan government is not offering information about aliens, it has joined Mexico in supporting the project. "Guatemala, like Mexico, home to the ancient yet advanced Mayan civilization ... has also kept certain provocative archeological discoveries classified, and now believes that it is time to bring forth this information in the new documentary," Guatemala's minister of tourism, Guillermo Novielli Quezada, said in a statement.

He said the country was working with filmmakers "for the good of mankind."

Raul-Julia claims that the order to cooperate came directly from the country's president, Alvaro Colom Caballero.

Guatemala is the site of a large number of pre-Columbian Mayan settlements in the Mirador Basin, including the extensive and highly organized city of El Mirador

In a curious aspect of the new announcement: Guatemalan minister Quezada is quoted as referring to "'Mirador,' the largest pyramid in the world."

But Mirador is not the name of a pyramid. It's the name of the entire settlement, which includes several pyramids, the largest of which is La Danta -- a fact one would expect the Guatemalan minister to know.

"Revelations of the Mayans 2012 and Beyond" begins shooting on November 15 and is due for a theatrical release in late 2012, before the end of the Mayan calendar.

While doomsday scenarios focus on the calendar ending on December 21, 2012, many scholars point out that it simply resets for another 5,126-year cycle on that date.[/QUOTE]

(cont.)


[url]http://www.reuters.com/article/2011/10/26/idUS309928438220111026[/url]

[QUOTE][SIZE="6"][B]Mayan Filmmaker Offers Photo as Proof of Aliens, Says Hawking Agrees (Exclusive)
[/B][/SIZE]


By Steve Pond at TheWrap

Wed Oct 26, 2011 9:05am EDT

EXCLUSIVE

The filmmakers behind "Revelations of the Mayans 2012 and Beyond," who said that their film will reveal evidence of contact between the Mayans and extraterrestrials, have now released to TheWrap what they claim is photographic evidence of a pre-Mayan, alien civilization.

And they claim they’ve got Stephen Hawking on their side.

Producer Raul Julia-Levy supplied a photo (left), which he says was taken in southern Guatemala in the 1930s, showing a head carved in the jungle.

Also read: Mayan Secrets to Be Revealed by Mexican Government in "2012" Doc

The monument, according to an accompanying letter by archaeologist Hector E. Mejia, dates back to between 3500 and 5000 B.C. and is evidence of a superior civilization unlike any known to have lived on Earth.

Mejia described the photograph as being "of a bust which a first glance can be seen to have an elongated cranium and fine characteristics which are not consistent with pre-Hispanic races of America."

"I certify that this monument presents no characteristics of Maya, Nahuatl, Olmec or any other pre-Hispanic civilization," he wrote. "It was created by an extraordinary and superior civilization with awesome knowledge of which there is no record of existence on this planet."

The photo is one of several purported pieces of evidence that will be shown in Julia-Levy's documentary, which he is making with the cooperation of the Mexican and Guatemalan governments keyed to 2012, the date the Mayan calendar ends.

"This explains who we are," said Julia-Levy, the son of actor Raul Julia. "This explains why these big f---ing monuments are all around the world."

And Julia-Levy then passed along a direct quote that, he claimed, came from no less than Stephen Hawking, who he said "is going to work with us" and will be included in his film:

"'I warn humanity that aliens are out there. Just because the aliens were friends with the Mayans doesn't mean they are our friends. Humans should avoid contact with aliens at all costs.'"

An email sent to a representative for Hawking asking about the authenticity of the quote was not answered.

Hawking has in the past said that that alien life is likely to exist in the universe ("to my mathematical brain, the numbers alone make thinking about aliens perfectly natural"), and has speculated about the dangers of contact.

"If aliens ever visit us," Hawking has said, "I think the outcome would be much as when Christopher Columbus first landed in America, which didn't turn out very well for the Native Americans."

TheWrap has been unable to unearth any Instances of Hawking saying anything about the aliens ever contacting or being friends with the Mayans.

But Julia-Levy insisted that the words are Hawking's. He also claimed government conspiracies surrounding the photo, and the head it depicts: After the photo was taken in the late 1930s, he said, it was only published once, in a magazine that was then immediately withdrawn from circulation by "the government of England."

He also said the head depicted in the photo, 17 meters (51 feet) tall and six meters wide, is no longer in the Guatemalan jungle but has been moved to the United States and hidden.

"I was informed by officials in the government of Guatemala that the U.S. government brought it here," he said.

According to Meija, "The creative style is not consistent with the civilizations that inhabited the southern coast of Guatemala prior to the arrival of the Spaniards … It is indisputably pre-Olmec and pre-Maya … [O]ne can assign an age between 3500 and 5000 BC."

Mejia is a licensed archaeologist affiliated with the Atlas Arqueological de Guatemala and the Institute of Anthropology and History in Guatemala, and with the University of San Carlos. His statement was written in Spanish; TheWrap had it translated.

Mejia goes on to compare it to other monuments, including "the Moais of Easter Island," "the Pascual Abaj monument ... in Guatemala" and "the Great Sphinx in Egypt." He said it was "created by an extraordinary and superior civilization" that "settled in the south of Guatemala and from there shone its light and knowledge on the hunter gatherers who were its first students and received its teachings."

Julia-Levy (right) said that Mejia is part of an international team of archaeologists and other professionals assembled by the filmmakers because they are "willing to tell the world the truth" about the Mayan/alien connection.

"We have a gang of archaeologists and scholars and scientists that are going to come forward and show everything they have," he said.

And, he swears, governments will do the same.

"I was told by the officials that the Mayans and the extra-terrestrials had a history of exchange," he said. "This is official. This is as official as it can get."

Added Julia-Levy, "The world hasn’t seen this. Nobody has seen this. But there's no doubt in my mind that the world is ready fo the truth.

"This is going to create a worldwide impact in how people see things."

His movie, by the way, has yet to begin shooting. Principal photography is scheduled to begin in Mexico and Guatemala in mid-November.
Related Articles: Mayan Documentary Will Show Evidence of Alien Contact, Says Mexico (Exclusive) Mayan Secrets to Be Revealed by Mexican Government in '2012' Doc[/QUOTE]

I think our understanding of previous civilizations is incredibly inaccurate. I feel as if history has been approached with the idea that anything that came before us was intellectually inferior, and thus our construction of the past and how previous civilizations existed is extremely flawed.

I'm far from a conspiracy theorist, and like to approach each situation as logical and grounded as possible... but many of the accepted interpretations of history and previous civilizations don't make sense to me. Many of the explanations seemed forced, and unwilling to approach the subject from the perspective that perhaps these civilizations weren't as inferior as we assume they were.



One thing that has always interested me, is how most of knowledge we gain from previous civilizations come from stones, or markings in stones. Because of this, I feel like people approach the discussion with the mindset of, "oh well they carved in rocks, what were they cavemen? they must have been inferior". Then I watched a documentary about what would happen if mankind were wiped off the earth. It stated that within 10,000 years of the extinction of mankind, that not a single book, or computer, or any proof of our intellectual achievements would survive. The only thing that would still remain? Carvings in stones, or landmarks built in stone.

Very interesting. I guess we'll have to wait and see what the documentary will be like. Right now this just seems to be hype to sell their documentary.



I will say this though...anyone that doesnt believe life on other planets, is a fool.

[QUOTE=BuffaloBill][IMG]http://thechive.files.wordpress.com/2011/06/yesitis2.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs/634016_o.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=bdreason]It stated that within 10,000 years of the extinction of mankind, that not a single book, or computer, or any proof of our intellectual achievements would survive. The only thing that would still remain? Carvings in stones, or landmarks built in stone.[/QUOTE]

i disagree to some extent. it is a matter of luck really. stones given all climates will fair better overall, but in the right place a book or vinyl or a cd could last 10,000 years. in fact you could probably rattle of a list of a few dozen mediums that could survive the ages - both artistic and industrial. we are always finding scraps of old scrolls around the place and we have billions of more books and albums in the world than they had pieces of parchment.

No, I'm sure you're right and some metal/paper/plastic type items could survive 10,000 years... but what about 100,000 years? I mean the world is like 4 billion years old I think? I feel like there could have been so many civilizations we don't know about, because we have no physical proof of their existence.

[QUOTE=bdreason]No, I'm sure you're right and some metal/paper/plastic type items could survive 10,000 years... but what about 100,000 years? I mean the world is like 4 billion years old I think? I feel like there could have been so many civilizations we don't know about, because we have no physical proof of their existence.[/QUOTE]

that's always possible. eventually the sun will blow up and nothing will be left anyway. except maybe voyager 1 and 2, and whatever else is floating outside of our solar system. i'd like to see the ancient civilizations do that :D

i always find the freakiest one to be the idea that because the universe is always expanding eventually the galaxies will be so far away you won't be able to see them, so essentially any species living then might not know that other galaxies even exist or be able to come up with the expanding universe/big bang hypothesis.

Uh oh, shit just got real! Can't wait till all those athiests get exposed! Anyone who doesn't think aliens have visited this planet is a fool!

[QUOTE=MetsPackers]Uh oh, shit just got real! Can't wait till all those athiests get exposed! [/QUOTE]



Why would atheists be exposed?


I would think the religious fanatics out there claiming that we, humans are the ONLY being out there because God ONLY created us would be exposed...no?

Where's the photo?

[QUOTE=Scoooter]Where's the photo?[/QUOTE]



Hah, thats why they want you to watch and or buy the documentary.

[QUOTE=bdreason]One thing that has always interested me, is how most of knowledge we gain from previous civilizations come from stones, or markings in stones. Because of this, I feel like people approach the discussion with the mindset of, "oh well they carved in rocks, what were they cavemen? they must have been inferior". Then I watched a documentary about what would happen if mankind were wiped off the earth. It stated that within 10,000 years of the extinction of mankind, that not a single book, or computer, or any proof of our intellectual achievements would survive. The only thing that would still remain? Carvings in stones, or landmarks built in stone.[/QUOTE]
Hmm, I thought Styrofoam would still be around and that could be some kind of proof.

The proof of extra terrestrials was right in front of us the whole time and no one seen it either... Its us

:eek:

[QUOTE=oh the horror]Why would atheists be exposed?


I would think the religious fanatics out there claiming that we, humans are the ONLY being out there because God ONLY created us would be exposed...no?[/QUOTE]

I don't want to get into some sort of philosophical debate about religion and belief systems, but suppose these visitations were from God and his angels or what have you.

Doesn't the mere probability of signs of extra-terrestrial visitations kind of throw the whole theory of evolution out the window, which is what Atheists tend to cling to as their reason for "being"??

If there is intelligent life out there and they have visited us in the past, then can we easily label them as "creators" since we are inferior in intellect? And this is why there is a worship system in every major religion worldwide. We worship and pray to those that are from above, those that are holy and gave us this life or existence. From depictions in stone and on walls, they resemble us with just a few different characteristics.

Throwing out the major religions from your mind for the moment, a plethora of other spiritual groups and tribes can attest their spirituality and spiritual nature from those that came down from the heavens/sky/stars/outer space/etc.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Doesn't the mere probability of signs of extra-terrestrial visitations kind of throw the whole theory of evolution out the window, which is what Atheists tend to cling to as their reason for "being"??[/QUOTE]

first of all (and you should know this by now) atheism has nothing to do with evolution, so whether or not it is true has no bearing on anything.

second of all, evolution is likely to exist in any type of species extra-terrestrial or not. evolution occurs here on earth because it is a process that occurs in the natural universe.

aliens could have put us on here using a specific set of designed genetic information, but since that point we have still undergone evolution because reproduction produces random mutations which are subsequently propagated (or not) throughout the species.

[QUOTE=miller-time]first of all (and you should know this by now) atheism has nothing to do with evolution, so whether or not it is true has no bearing on anything.

second of all, evolution is likely to exist in any type of species extra-terrestrial or not. evolution occurs here on earth because it is a process that occurs in the natural universe.

aliens could have put us on here using a specific set of designed genetic information, but since that point we have still undergone evolution because reproduction produces random mutations which are subsequently propagated (or not) throughout the species.[/QUOTE]

Well, to be more specific the thought that humans evolved from primates.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Well, to be more specific the thought that humans evolved from primates.[/QUOTE]

Dude, just stop. Are you really going to reach that far and try to argue that the existence of aliens discredits evolution?

That doesn't even begin to make sense.

You do know that most rational theists believe in guided evolution, right? That "God" still created the universe but also the mechanism of evolution through which species developed?

You are free to ignore the facts, but you do so at your own peril, and you don't get to be offended when people fail to take you seriously.

[QUOTE=MetsPackers]Uh oh, shit just got real! C[B]an't wait till all those athiests get exposed! [/B]Anyone who doesn't think aliens have visited this planet is a fool![/QUOTE]

WHat a stupid sentence.

[QUOTE=Take Your Lumps]You do know that most rational theists believe in guided evolution, right? That "God" still created the universe but also the mechanism of evolution through which species developed?[/QUOTE]

it makes more sense to use evolution than to specially create everything. in the same way god doesn't put every grain of sand specially in place he also doesn't design every organism that lives down to the molecular level. there are bigger principles in play that govern where and how things are placed or put together. namely physics - or at a biological level - natural selection.

Aliens exist, but have never visited earth. Why? Because think about it, intergalactic travel could never be possible, it would take some sort of infinite energy combined with infinite time to get anywhere in the universe. The "Aliens" would have to be able to live a 1000 years just take make it to the nearest habitable planet within their own galaxy (if space travel was possible and they had infinite energy), Other galaxies are just too far away. Thats the first reason. Second, is why the F would aliens come here and do some random shit. If they can travel the universe they would have to be highly intelligent. Randomly stopping by earth for no reason just doesn't make sense. The aliens have to have some sort of motive.

Sci-Fi movies pretty much dictate what people think the future will be like. But if you look at it realistically. We stuck on this planet and we ain't getting no visitors.

cant wait to c the faces of aliens when they come back here and expect to see primitive based civilizations, but get a nuke up their ass instead

humans are very close to light speed travel in the near future, maybe in 50 years, we will achieve that

watch the show, through the wormhole narrated by morgan freeman, they get really scientific about all these possibilities

[QUOTE=miller-time]i disagree to some extent. it is a matter of luck really. stones given all climates will fair better overall, but in the right place a book or vinyl or a cd could last 10,000 years. in fact you could probably rattle of a list of a few dozen mediums that could survive the ages - both artistic and industrial. we are always finding scraps of old scrolls around the place and we have billions of more books and albums in the world than they had pieces of parchment.[/QUOTE]
What about non-corrosive items like stainless steel or titanium?

I remember watching, listening and reading tons of information on OVNIS growing up in Mexico City. It wasn't some ramblings of a crazed conspiracy theorist or in some small tv show/radio show. These were serious conversations that one would find on American networks and shows. They Mexican people treat this shit in a completely different manner than Americans do. Americans always discuss these matters with a bit of sarcastic skepticism, almost ridiculing the idea. I guess most people here feel that they'll be ridiculed for believing in UFOs, but that's not the case over there and I'm sure in most places around the world.

[QUOTE=andgar923]I remember watching, listening and reading tons of information on OVNIS growing up in Mexico City. It wasn't some ramblings of a crazed conspiracy theorist or in some small tv show/radio show. These were serious conversations that one would find on American networks and shows. They Mexican people treat this shit in a completely different manner than Americans do. Americans always discuss these matters with a bit of sarcastic skepticism, almost ridiculing the idea. I guess most people here feel that they'll be ridiculed for believing in UFOs, but that's not the case over there and I'm sure in most places around the world.[/QUOTE]

Asian people don't believe in aliens, for the most part don't see UFO's, little green men,etc. The whole world doesn't discuss these things with seriousness, not quite.

Why aren't there anything left behind? Any metal? Or skeletons? Bones? Imprints of strange hands or tracks? Why does everything seem so human?

I don't think it's impossible but it strikes me as a reach. And it doesn't help that all the "science" comes from people with a emotionally vesting into believing these things are all true.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]I don't want to get into some sort of philosophical debate about religion and belief systems, but suppose these visitations were from God and his angels or what have you.

[B]Doesn't the mere probability of signs of extra-terrestrial visitations kind of throw the whole theory of evolution out the window,[/B] which is what Atheists tend to cling to as their reason for "being"??

If there is intelligent life out there and they have visited us in the past, then can we easily label them as "creators" since we are inferior in intellect? And this is why there is a worship system in every major religion worldwide. We worship and pray to those that are from above, those that are holy and gave us this life or existence. From depictions in stone and on walls, they resemble us with just a few different characteristics.

Throwing out the major religions from your mind for the moment, a plethora of other spiritual groups and tribes can attest their spirituality and spiritual nature from those that came down from the heavens/sky/stars/outer space/etc.[/QUOTE]

How the **** did you put that together? That statement makes no god damn sense.

I think it's fine to not believe in aliens, because currently there is simply no hard evidence.

However if you don't believe in the POSSIBILITY of aliens, then you're just stupid. Just take a look at the goddamn universe, see how small our solar system is, see the billions and billions of other stars/planets out there, and think of it as a numbers game. What are the ODDS?

Movies have also made us think of aliens in a weird way. Why do we always picture them as highly futuristic, intelligent, and travelling in UFO? Their planet might just have a ton of cold blooded reptiles crawling around. Their IQ never develop, that's why they never came here.

Who says aliens need a habitable planet with oxygen and water anyways? There are all types of possibilities.

I often ponder about what if we put one of those organisms or bacteria that can survive in a vacuum type of atmosphere, and we leave them on Mars or something. Few million years later they would turn into lifeforms too, no? we might be able to play creator too.

Am I the only one who sees a massive promotional campaign of a commercial product?

If anything i'd think extraterrestrial life would disprove religion, or rather Christianity in a lot of ways since there is no mention of God creating life outside of our planet. If it all started with Adam and Eve on earth, and no mention of beings created by him elsewhere he's not being very thorough with what he created then. Maybe he put different 'words of God' on every planet with life but you'd think he'd have talked in a more universal scale when telling how things began.

i wonder if this raul julia guy has any history of saying outlandish things. if not, and stephen hawking really is backing him up, i'll have to watch it. its probably easy to pay off the mexican government to back you especially if it helps their tourism industry.

[QUOTE=bluechox2]cant wait to c the faces of aliens when they come back here and expect to see primitive based civilizations, but get a nuke up their ass instead


[/QUOTE]


And what if they have something that make our nukes look like a joke?


If you really think about human beings...we ARE primitive.

[QUOTE=oh the horror]And what if they have something that make our nukes look like a joke?


If you really think about human beings...we ARE primitive.[/QUOTE]
last time they came, they had us building pyramids one brick a day practically.

i think we improved a tad bit from then, why there are ufo sightings but never any encounters, they butt scared

but im just talking out my ass

fact that they can come here first, means they can probably enslave the whole species with a snap of a finger

To those who ask why we haven't found fossils, remains of spacecrafts or other solid proof of exsistence of extraterrestrials, maybe world governments have hidden those objets from us? That's the reason those who believe have given, that there's a world wide conspiracy to keep that shit from us.

I have no idea if aliens exsist but I once saw a documentary that explained that if you look at it mathematically, if you take into account that we know for sure at least one planet (Earth) can sustain life, then the odds are in the millions that there are other planets out there in the universe that can sustain life, maybe not highly intelligent life but there is no doubt there is life out there, we just don't have the capacity to observe them but it doesn't mean they aren't there.

[QUOTE=TheMan]To those who ask why we haven't found fossils, remains of spacecrafts or other solid proof of exsistence of extraterrestrials, maybe world governments have hidden those objets from us? That's the reason those who believe have given, that there's a world wide conspiracy to keep that shit from us.

I have no idea if aliens exsist but I once saw a documentary that explained that if you look at it mathematically, if you take into account that we know for sure at least one planet (Earth) can sustain life, then the odds are in the millions that there are other planets out there in the universe that can sustain life, maybe not highly intelligent life but there is no doubt there is life out there, we just don't have the capacity to observe them but it doesn't mean they aren't there.[/QUOTE]
The government cant do the most simple things without messing them up, you really think it can hide aliens from us, where not even 1 person whos seen them will make any sort of statement.


Mathematically, there is most certainly life out there, but also mathematically, there is no way any of them have ever come here.

[QUOTE=OhNoTimNoSho]The government cant do the most simple things without messing them up, you really think it can hide aliens from us, where not even 1 person whos seen them will make any sort of statement.


Mathematically, there is most certainly life out there, but also mathematically, there is no way any of them have ever come here.[/QUOTE]


"The government can't do the most simple things without messing them up"
:facepalm

Ever heard of the CIA?

The Government is EXTREMLY good when it comes to hiding information from the public..

[QUOTE=OhNoTimNoSho]The government cant do the most simple things without messing them up, you really think it can hide aliens from us, where not even 1 person whos seen them will make any sort of statement.


Mathematically, there is most certainly life out there, but also mathematically, there is no way any of them have ever come here.[/QUOTE]
Area 51, hangar 18...
and if you think the gov can't keep shit away from us, then you prolly think JFK and RFK were killed by lone nutballs, huh.

Steven Hawkings has the best take on this: It is very, very likely that there is other life out there. If they are so far along that they have the ability to visit this planet, chances are it won't end well for us.

With this in mind, if aliens ever do visit we should kill them. We should then study their biology and technology. Again, and this is important to remember, we should kill them if we can.

[QUOTE=MetsPackers]Uh oh, shit just got real! Can't wait till all those athiests get exposed! Anyone who doesn't think aliens have visited this planet is a fool![/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]I don't want to get into some sort of philosophical debate about religion and belief systems, but suppose these visitations were from God and his angels or what have you.

Doesn't the mere probability of signs of extra-terrestrial visitations kind of throw the whole theory of evolution out the window, which is what Atheists tend to cling to as their reason for "being"?? [/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7ybafmXs91qg85d9.gif[/IMG]

I get the distinct feeling that you guys have absolutely no clue what you are talking about :oldlol:

[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]"The government can't do the most simple things without messing them up"
:facepalm

Ever heard of the CIA?

The Government is EXTREMLY good when it comes to hiding information from the public..[/QUOTE]

So what type of stuff have they hid from us that never came out?

[QUOTE=OhNoTimNoSho]So what type of stuff have they hid from us that never came out?[/QUOTE]


:facepalm

You'll see soon.

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