Kyrie's take on Bill Simmons.

Kyrie Irving ‏@KyrieIrving
Never played or coached a game but a so called expert at observing the game, huh?

Kyrie Irving ‏@KyrieIrving
No shots fired everybody lol relax just a thought

(i included the 2nd tweet to show there was no malicious intent behind the first one.)


haha if thats how he feels towards bill simmons, i could only imagine how he'd feel about ISH posters.

But these tweets by Kryie do spark an interesting question. Whats is your guys opinion on things like this? Is playing basketball/coaching it required in order to have a respected opinion in basketball? Or is knowledge of the game enough to warrant said respect?

Some of the most respected sports journalists of all-time have zero playing or coaching experience. Doesn't mean they can't be experts; they probably watch more games than anyone else on the planet and, as a result, seriously know their stuff.

i guess people who have never been president shouldn't be allowed to vote then.

Kyrie is young and ignorant.

One doesn't have to play or coach to be an expert observer.

Whether Bill Simmons an expert or not is another matter altogether though.

[QUOTE=Levity]

haha if thats how he feels towards bill simmons, i could only imagine how he'd feel about ISH posters.
[/QUOTE]
Most ISH posters play basketball.

[QUOTE=RoundMoundOfReb]i guess people who have never been president shouldn't be allowed to vote then.[/QUOTE]

im with you on that. Its like when actors say, "oh youve never acted in a movie?? then how can you criticize my performance?"

It just seems more like a defensive tactic than anything else.

[QUOTE=Droid101]Most ISH posters play basketball.[/QUOTE]

haah i dont know about that. I remember creating a thread about ISH posters who ball a few months back, and was surprised to see a lot of people replying saying they never play basketball, but just love the sport.

Your knowledge of the game has absolutely nothing to do with your ability to play the game.

[QUOTE=Droid101]Most ISH posters play basketball.[/QUOTE]
Pick up basketball at the YMCA doesn't really count.

[QUOTE=WillC]Some of the most respected sports journalists of all-time have zero playing or coaching experience. Doesn't mean they can't be experts; they probably watch more games than anyone else on the planet and, as a result, seriously know their stuff.[/QUOTE]


- who?.....I would say 95% of the basketball fanbase doesn't know who any of these "well respected sports journalists who never played or coached" are.

- I would say 95% do respect the Jerry West's....Magic Johnson's.....larry Bird's.....Charles Barkley's....Phil Jackson's....etc...etc..

and nearly 100% would rather listen to them then some random sports journalists who never played or coached.

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]- who?.....I would say 95% of the basketball fanbase doesn't know who any of these "well respected sports journalists who never played or coached" are.

- I would say 95% do respect the Jerry West's....Magic Johnson's.....larry Bird's.....Charles Barkley's....Phil Jackson's....etc...etc..

and nearly 100% would rather listen to them then some random sports journalists who never played or coached.[/QUOTE]
Truly silly logic.

At the end of it all the NBA is still basketball. If you understand the game then who cares how you've come to understand it.

I think David Halberstam had way more interesting things to say about basketball than Magic Johnson does

simmons has watched more NBA games that Kyrie could ever dream of playing in.

gtfo Dukie *******

[QUOTE=FireDavidKahn]Your knowledge of the game has absolutely nothing to do with your ability to play the game.[/QUOTE]


- Not in the context you are trying use....Knowledge of the game to do what...Know how to coach?....Scout Players?.....

- You need ability to play basketball at many levels....you need to play basketball at many levels and get a complete understanding of how it's played...especially at the Pro Level.

Alphapup's agenda is disgustingly obvious :facepalm
Give it a rest already

I think it depends upon who's saying what, how they're saying it, and their willingness to accept alternative viewpoints. I think there's a ton, a [i]ton[/i] of things an outsider could pick up on from watching basketball for 30 years. That said, I truly do feel there are some things I experienced while playing basketball that I may have otherwise never picked up on had I merely been an outside observer. I'm not sure it's enough for me to automatically discredit anyone who did not play the game though.

That said, it can be a little frustrating sometimes to hear folks I know personally brooding over their favorite basketball team and talking as if they have some non-existent deep understanding of the game just because they've been watching a lot of Sportscenter lately. Obviously, I don't think that's the case with Simmons though.

May I ask, what was the piece to which Irving objected? I sometimes think analysts can rub a lot of folks the wrong way because they're paid to be certain about what they're saying. There's not a lot of room for, "I could be wrong..." It often always seems to be, "This is how it is!" and if that type of approach is coming from someone without a basketball playing background, I think it makes them an easy target.

That said, I think one's knowledge should be judged on a case by case basis. For instance, I think there's a vast difference between Skip Bayless and Bill Simmons, even if neither has an extensive basketball playing background.

simmons is generally in love with kyrie, what sparked the tweet?

[QUOTE=bballer]simmons has watched more NBA games that Kyrie could ever dream of playing in.

gtfo Dukie *******[/QUOTE]


so has Jack Nicholsen...

- Kyrie has played Basketball at nearly all top shelf levels....again I reephasize te playing part....

- He has playedand has worked to aquire his skillset...he understands the game far more then someone who doesn't have the skill nor has played basketball at any leel compared to Kyrie

Kyrie knows what works...Simmons does not.

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]- Not in the context you are trying use....Knowledge of the game to do what...Know how to coach?....Scout Players?.....

- You need ability to play basketball at many levels....you need to play basketball at many levels and get a complete understanding of how it's played...especially at the Pro Level.[/QUOTE]
This. Why do you think the lion's share of coaches have played in the pros?

[LIST][*] You don't get respect by talking about stuff you've never done in the sports world. Guys like Van Gundy don't get respect because frankly, how can you call out your players for not being active and energetic when you yourself are a lazy slob?
[*] Experience is a better teacher than anything. A coach that has played AND studied the game is bound to be better than just someone who has studied the game all things considered.
[*] Would you let a 450 lb smoker with poor hygeine train you? I think not.[/LIST]

[QUOTE=RRR3]Alphapup's agenda is disgustingly obvious :facepalm
Give it a rest already[/QUOTE]


WTF?.......what agenda......some guy who never picked up a basketball in his life knows more about basketball then Pro Players??

go away kid..

doesn't have anything to do with anything, but it's funny that kyrie has a link to his twitter page on his twitter page

[IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/157mcz9.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]WTF?.......what agenda......some guy who never picked up a basketball in his life knows more about basketball then Pro Players??

go away kid..[/QUOTE]
:kobe: Please, son, don't act like you're fooling anyone here.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]This. Why do you think the lion's share of coaches have played in the pros?

[LIST][*] You don't get respect by talking about stuff you've never done in the sports world. Guys like Van Gundy don't get respect because frankly, how can you call out your players for not being active and energetic when you yourself are a lazy slob?
[*] Experience is a better teacher than anything. A coach that has played AND studied the game is bound to be better than just someone who has studied the game all things considered.
[*] Would you let a 450 lb smoker with poor hygeine train you? I think not.[/LIST][/QUOTE]


- Van Gundy has been around basketbal his whole life...literally.....

- ...van Gundy actually played D3 basketball....

- Van Gundy's Father was a coach...Van Gundy has bee around basketball/coaching his entire life...and he has been playing basketball at different levels his entire life...

- Of course he doesn't have the talent to be a Pro...but he aquired the necassary knowledge throuh a Lifetime of expierience...and has played /aquired skill ( I seen his dribbling shooting videos) to understand the game.

- Bill Simmons has not...not even 1/90th the baqsketball knowledge of stan van gundy.

[QUOTE=RRR3]:kobe: Please, son, don't act like you're fooling anyone here.[/QUOTE]


seriously ...you done interneted yourself retarded...log off and go outside..

No one knows who Kyrie was talking about. At the same time Skip Bayless was making tweets also.

[QUOTE=bballer]simmons has watched more NBA games that Kyrie could ever dream of playing in.

gtfo Dukie *******[/QUOTE]
I'll take sides with the guy making millions to play the game he loves over the guy who has an awkward feud with Magic.

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]seriously ...you done interneted yourself retarded...log off and go outside..[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://i821.photobucket.com/albums/zz133/BeeKee_2010/kobe.gif[/IMG]

Playing the game and having experience there while also having experience in studying and coaching gives you the full amount of "expert" analysis in my opinion. There are just certain things that you look for when you've played with the best as well as watched the best. When I watch basketball I can actually tell who is good and who is just athletic because I've watched for a while and I've played bball (not elite level, admittedly.)

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]- Van Gundy has been around basketbal his whole life...literally.....

- ...van Gundy actually played D3 basketball....

- Van Gundy's Father was a coach...Van Gundy has bee around basketball/coaching his entire life...and he has been playing basketball at different levels his entire life...

- Of course he doesn't have the talent to be a Pro...but he aquired the necassary knowledge throuh a Lifetime of expierience...and has played /aquired skill ( I seen his dribbling shooting videos) to understand the game.

- Bill Simmons has not...not even 1/90th the baqsketball knowledge of stan van gundy.[/QUOTE]


I made a bad comparison, but you went off on a tangent determined not to get my point.

In sports, high level athletes respect those THAT HAVE DONE IT. It holds true in every sport. And it is logical. Great players want to be coached by former great players, not egg heads.

[QUOTE=chosen_one6][B]Playing the game and having experience there while also having experience in studying and coaching gives you the full amount of "expert" analysis in my opinion.[/B] There are just certain things that you look for when you've played with the best as well as watched the best. When I watch basketball I can actually tell who is good and who is just athletic because I've watched for a while and I've played bball (not elite level, admittedly.)[/QUOTE]


This is what I was trying to say, lol

[QUOTE=RRR3]Alphapup's agenda is disgustingly obvious :facepalm
Give it a rest already[/QUOTE]

Im curious to know what you think his agenda is.

[QUOTE=Levity]Im curious to know what you think his agenda is.[/QUOTE]
Look, Pup is usually a funny guy and knows his shit more than he lets on at times, but he's still a Kobe troll. And his agenda here is acting like only former players know anything because a lot of former players have said things he clutches onto as "proof" that Kobe is one of, if not the GOAT. He wants to act like everyone on ISH couldn't possibly know anything about the NBA because people on ISH don't play professional ball, for the most part.

[QUOTE=Go Getter]I made a bad comparison, but you went off on a tangent determined not to get my point.

In sports, high level athletes respect those THAT HAVE DONE IT. It holds true in every sport. And it is logical. Great players want to be coached by former great players, not egg heads.[/QUOTE]


I got your point.....and I didn't mean to be seen as "going off on tangent"...

You made a great point....I was just trying to reemphasize ( spelling sucks)...that even with van Gundy's all world basketball knowledge forged in a Lifetime of playing/coaching upbringing.....he still gets slighted. ( for the things you mentioned)

[QUOTE=RRR3]Look, Pup is usually a funny guy and knows his shit more than he lets on at times, but he's still a Kobe troll. And his agenda here is acting like only former players know anything because a lot of former players have said things he clutches onto as "proof" that Kobe is one of, if not the GOAT. He wants to act like everyone on ISH couldn't possibly know anything about the NBA because people on ISH don't play professional ball, for the most part.[/QUOTE]

You should consider trying out for the NBA, cause you sure do have a long reach....

[QUOTE=Go Getter]I made a bad comparison, but you went off on a tangent determined not to get my point.

In sports, high level athletes respect those THAT HAVE DONE IT. It holds true in every sport. And it is logical. Great players want to be coached by former great players, not egg heads.[/QUOTE]I think more than anything, players just want to be coached by people who know what they're doing, whether that stems from an extensive playing history or not. I've had some great coaches who were themselves also great players. Conversely, I've seen some great players also become terrible coaches. On the flip side, I've been coached by guys who were never as good at the game as I am, but I still respected their words because it was clear they knew what they were talking about.

All that said, I think a coach being a formerly great player makes it much easier to access all of your players, but it's not a necessity, even on the NBA level. I think it's just less common for people to randomly decide to take up coaching (especially at a professional level) if they didn't have some sort of passion for a large portion of their life that led them to playing the game at some point.

[QUOTE=Levity]You should consider trying out for the NBA, cause you sure do have a long reach....[/QUOTE]
:coleman: C'mon son

[QUOTE=Rake2204]I think more than anything, players just want to be coached by people who know what they're doing, whether that stems from an extensive playing history or not. I've had some great coaches who were themselves also great players. Conversely, I've seen some great players also become terrible coaches. On the flip side, I've been coached by guys who were never as good at the game as I am, but I still respected their words because it was clear they knew what they were talking about.

All that said, I think a coach being a formerly great player makes it much easier to access all of your players, but it's not a necessity, even on the NBA level. I think it's just less common for people to randomly decide to take up coaching (especially at a professional level) if they didn't have some sort of passion for a large portion of their life that led them to playing the game at some point.[/QUOTE]


Evidence points to pro players being more found of coaches with playing experience. ESPECIALLY FOOTBALL. In basketball too though it's hard to communicate with someone that hasn't done what they are telling you to do.

It makes you more effective and makes your words hold more weight.

[QUOTE=FireDavidKahn]Pick up basketball at the YMCA doesn't really count.[/QUOTE]
besides, based on his podcast references, simmons is a ymca baller as well

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]I got your point.....and I didn't mean to be seen as "going off on tangent"...

You made a great point....I was just trying to reemphasize ( spelling sucks)...that even with van Gundy's all world basketball knowledge forged in a Lifetime of playing/coaching upbringing.....he still gets slighted. ( for the things you mentioned)[/QUOTE]


It comes with the territory. When you coach the same players for a goodly number of years you develop a bond. It's human nature to think, "damn Van Gundy is riding me for my conditioning when he's a slob."

I'd have more respect for Jim Harbaugh than Andy Reid (Who can't control his eating urges or his kids)....just an example. Coaching has a lot to do with life and when your life isn't right you can't be a highly effective coach and leader.