Vote for the Top 10 Defensive Players in NBA History

Rank the top 10 defensive players in NBA history.

[U]Short list:[/U]

Alonzo Mourning
Alvin Robertson
Andrei Kirilenko
Anthony Mason
Artis Gilmore
Ben Wallace
Bill Russell
Bill Sharman
Bill Walton
Bob Dandridge
Bob Pettit
Bobby Jones
Bobby Wanzer
Bruce Bowen
Buck Williams
Caldwell Jones
Charles Oakley
Chris Paul
Clyde Lovellette
Dan Roundfield
Dave Cowens
Dave Debusschere
David Robinson
Dennis Johnson
Dennis Rodman
Dick McGuire
Dikembe Mutombo
Dolph Schayes
Don Buse
Doug Christie
Dwight Howard
Dwyane Wade
Elgin Baylor
Fat Lever
Frank Ramsey
Gary Payton
George Yardley
Gerald Wallace
Gus Johnson
Hakeem Olajuwon
Hal Greer
Horace Grant
Jamaal Wilkes
Jason Kidd
Jerry Sloan
Jerry West
Joe Dumars
John Havlicek
John Stockton
K.C. Jones
Kareem Abdul-jabbar
Kevin Garnett
Kevin McHale
Kobe Bryant
Larry Bird
Latrell Sprewell
LeBron James
Lenny Wilkens
Manute Bol
Marcus Camby
Mark Eaton
Maurice Cheeks
Maurice Lucas
Maurice Stokes
Michael Cooper
Michael Jordan
Mookie Blaylock
Moses Malone
Nate McMillan
Nate Thurmond
Norm Van Lier
Oscar Robertson
Patrick Ewing
Paul Pressey
Paul Seymour
Paul Silas
Rajon Rondo
Ron Artest
Scottie Pippen
Serge Ibaka
Shane Battier
Shaquille O'Neal
Shawn Marion
Sidney Moncrief
Slater Martin
Theo Ratliff
Tim Duncan
Tom Gola
Tom Sanders
Tyson Chandler
Walt Frazier
Willis Reed
Wilt Chamberlain

1. Olajuwon

[QUOTE=millwad]1. Olajuwon[/QUOTE]

I'd like to add up the votes, but need a top 10 to be able to do so.

Shawn Marion should at least be on the short list.


but my top ten would be:

by position, it's too hard just doing a ten. I can narrow it to ten latter.


[B]Center[/B]
1 Bill Russell
2 Wilt Chamberlain
3 Nate Thurmond
4 Hakeem Olajuwon
5 Dikembe Mutombo
6 Lew Alcindor
7 Bill Walton
8 Ben Wallace
9 David Robinson
10 Alonzo Mourning



[B]Forward[/B]
1 Dennis Rodman
2 Scottie Pippen
3 Kevin Garnett
4 Tim Duncan
5 Gus Johnson
6 Dave Debusschere
7 Michael Cooper
8 Ron Artest
9 Bobby Jones
10 Maurice Lucas


[B]Guards[/B]
1 Walt Frazier
2 Sidney Moncrief
3 Gary Payton
4 Dennis Johnson
5 Michael Jordan
6 Norm Van Lier
7 Joe Dumars
8 K.C. Jones
9 Jerry West
10 Jason Kidd

I'm not sure why some of these names are even on here when discussing "greatest defensive players in NBA history," specifically, [b]top ten[/b]. Bob Cousy, for instance, being a nominee for one of the 10 greatest defensive players ever to play the game is utterly absurd. On some lists it seems that people just list names of every good player they can think of rather than players who actually qualify for whatever the given category is that's being discussed.

Rodman, Ben Wallace, Pippen

No love for Michael Cooper?

Okay, I'll do my best:

1. Bill Russell
2. Dennis Rodman
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. Kevin Garnett
6. David Robinson
7. Tim Duncan
8. Scottie Pippen
9. Michael Jordan
10. Sidney Moncrief


Ugh, I wish I could add B. Wallace and D. Howard and Payton and Bowen and W. Frazier and Dennis Johnson and Horace Grant and Bobby Jones and T. R. Dunn and John Stockton and Dave DeBusschere and Michael Cooper and Mutombo and McHale and Van Lier...

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle]Shawn Marion should at least be on the short list.[/quote]

Added.

If you could narrow down your top 10 overall, that would be great. Thanks for the positional lists though.

[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]I'm not sure why some of these names are even on here when discussing "greatest defensive players in NBA history," specifically, [b]top ten[/b]. Bob Cousy, for instance, being a nominee for one of the 10 greatest defensive players ever to play the game is utterly absurd. On some lists it seems that people just list names of every good player they can think of rather than players who actually qualify for whatever the given category is that's being discussed.[/QUOTE]

Yeah, Cousy's name probably doesn't belong on the shortlist.

However, it certainly wasn't due to me simply selecting the best players ever; I tried to select players who had All-Defensive 1st or 2nd Team selections or, if they played prior to that accolade being given out, then those who were regarded as great defenders.

Cousy's name appeared on one of the All-Defensive 2nd Team's selected by GOAT in an excellent article he wrote a while back ([url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=190405[/url]), hence he made the list by default.

Pat Ewing anchored one of the top defenses of all time, and no one has him on their list. You are all just haters or just dumb. Which is it?

Mourning ahead of Pat :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Walton ahead of Pat :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Rodman is my top pick, mostly because he purely specialised in rebounding and play hard on the defensive end.

Ewing was indeed very good and in my book better than Walton and Mourning, even better than Mutombo. But he never had the presence of Olajuwon or Robinson.

1. Hakeem Olajuwon
2. Scottie Pippen
3. Dennis Rodman
4. Kevin Garnett
5. Kobe Bryant
6. Tim Duncan
7. Ben Wallace
8. David Robinson
9. Garry Payton
10. Michael Jordan

01 - Bill Russell
02 - Hakeem Olajuwon
03 - Scottie Pippen
04 - Kevin Garnett
05 - Dennis Rodman
06 - Michael Jordan
07 - Walt Frazier
08 - Wilt Chamberlain
09 - Jerry West
10 - David Robinson

I'm not going to post the names of guys whose prime was earlier than 1980, because I haven't seen them play. Footage won't do justice, you can put together a 3 minute clip of any average defender making him look great. With that said:

1. Hakeem
2. Rodman
3. Payton
4. Pippen
5. Garnett
6. Kidd
7. Jordan
8. Mourning
9. Artest
10. Mutombo

I continue to find it sad the disrespect Nate Thurmond gets, when he was recognized during the time he actually played as second only to Russell, yet as time passes and you get people who don't know much about the era talking about all-time great defenders, Thurmond gets completely overlooked, as the people looking back now after the fact would only be aware of the big names, which were Russell and Chamberlain.

[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]I continue to find it sad the disrespect Nate Thurmond gets, when he was recognized during the time he actually played as second only to Russell, yet as time passes and you get people who don't know much about the era talking about all-time great defenders, Thurmond gets completely overlooked, as the people looking back now after the fact would only be aware of the big names, which were Russell and Chamberlain.[/QUOTE]

Why are you so angry? That's your second negative post in this thread.

You talk as if you know everything and others know nothing.

I'm well aware of Thurmond's incredible defensive abilities. However, there are dozens of legendary defenders to choose from, so he's not a lock for the top 10.

There's nothing disrespectful about having Thurmond about 10th to 15th all-time amongst the best defenders in basketball history.

I think you're the only one around here who is being disrespectful by assuming that others know less than you do.

[QUOTE=ThaRegul8r]I continue to find it sad the disrespect Nate Thurmond gets, when he was recognized during the time he actually played as second only to Russell, yet as time passes and you get people who don't know much about the era talking about all-time great defenders, Thurmond gets completely overlooked, as the people looking back now after the fact would only be aware of the big names, which were Russell and Chamberlain.[/QUOTE]

Talking about defensive impact based on stats is false on too many levels. Who here has seen Nate Thurmond play regularly? Not some games or some 5 minute long video clip but, say, a season?

It's sad enough to see 15 year old kids arguing Stockton vs. Isiah, when all they saw was a few games worth of footage (if that much). One should really refrain from posting on matters he has no clue about.

I'm almost 40. When it comes to Bill Russell, all I can say is 'I don't know' though. I have never seen the guy play, for crying out loud. Talking of Nate Thurmond's defensive impact... come on.

bizmac biyombo!!!

Here are the All time career defensive ratings


1. Gar Heard 95.3
2. Tim Duncan 95.39
3. Dave Cowens* 95.52
4. David Robinson* 95.65
5. Ben Wallace 95.76
6. Clifford Ray 96.26
7. Wes Unseld* 96.31
8. Sam Lacey 96.45
9. Jim Ard 96.53
10. George Johnson 96.67
11. Paul Silas 96.77
12. Elvin Hayes* 97.36
13. George McGinnis 97.61
14. Kim Hughes 97.66
15. Hakeem Olajuwon* 97.89
16. Dwight Howard 98.04
17. Connie Hawkins* 98.08
18. Bob Lanier* 98.40
19. Jim Brewer 98.51
20. Marcus Camby 98.51
21. Steve Mix 98.72
22. Mel Daniels* 98.91
23. Kevin Garnett 98.99
24. Patrick Ewing* 99.08
25. Yao Ming 99.10
26. Rich Kelley 99.18
27. Dikembe Mutombo 99.19
28. Bobby Jones 99.25
29. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 99.30
30. Len Elmore 99.33
31. Rick Barry* 99.44
32. Julius Erving* 99.53
33. Alonzo Mourning 99.57
34. Ted McClain 99.59
35. Manu Ginobili 99.67
36. Truck Robinson 99.74
37. Bob McAdoo* 99.75
38. Jermaine O'Neal 99.85
39. Marvin Webster 99.92
40. Alvan Adams 99.94
41. Shawn Kemp 100.14
42. Darryl Dawkins 100.25
43. Dennis Rodman* 100.26
44. Jim Chones 100.27
45. Tree Rollins 100.36
46. Mark Eaton 100.37
47. Bruce Seals 100.37
48. Darnell Hillman 100.43
49. Spencer Haywood 100.44
50. Bob Dandridge 100.48

The fact that some people are putting Jordan ahead of Moncrief is just :facepalm. And if Drob is not in your top 3 I'm negging you

1. Hakeem Olajuwon
2. Bill Russell
3. Dennis Rodman
4. Scottie Pippen
5. David Robinson
6. Wilt Chamberlain
7. Walt Frazier
8. Kevin Garnett
9. Garry Payton
10. Tim Duncan

Where the hell is Metta World Peace?? :facepalm

[COLOR="White"]White Text Entertainment

[QUOTE=Sarcastic]Pat Ewing anchored one of the top defenses of all time, and no one has him on their list. You are all just haters or just dumb. Which is it?

Mourning ahead of Pat :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Walton ahead of Pat :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:[/QUOTE]
We're not gonna act like Oakley, Anthony Mason, Smith, Derek Harper, Starks didn't play for the Knicks, all good defenders, not like Zo in Miami or Deke in ATL where they basically were the defense (save Mookie and PJ Brown.)

Pardon my ignorance (I don't know enough to compile a Top 10), but what is Kevin Love doing on the short list while Bryon "Jordan Stopper" Russell and Ruben "Kobe Stopper" Patterson are absent?

[QUOTE=elementally morale]I'm not going to post the names of guys whose prime was earlier than 1980, because I haven't seen them play. Footage won't do justice, you can put together a 3 minute clip of any average defender making him look great. With that said:

1. Hakeem
2. Rodman
3. Payton
4. Pippen
5. Garnett
6. Kidd
7. Jordan
8. Mourning
9. Artest
10. Mutombo[/QUOTE]

If you don't feel you can make a judgment correctly, then why would you even make an "all time" list.

Great topic, WillC! Can generate a lot of discussion and opinion

Short List:

1. Bill Russell
2. Dennis Rodman (gets severely underrated to me)
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Scottie Pippen
5. Dikembe Mutombo
6. Kevin Garnett
7. Gary Payton
8. Michael Jordan
9. Dwight Howard (I actually believe he will climb the rankings a lot further when his career is over)
10. Ben Wallace

Honorable Mentions: Walt Frazier, Joe Dumars, Tim Duncan, Patrick Ewing, Sidney Moncrief

This is kindof impossible to rank for me because of the variety of defensive roles/experts... interior/perimeter/allround...

For interior you could rank only 10 guys like Russell, Hakeem etc. Guys that were experts on guarding the paint.

For perimeter you could rank only 10 guys like Payton, Jordan etc. Guys that had nasty lateral quickness, hands, peskyness to guard the perimeter.

For allround/versatility you could rank only 10 guys like Pippen, Rodman, Lebron etc. Guys that could do about everything & guard up to 5/all positions, but were not best ever at one thing.

I can give you my top 10 but it would be in no order and i most likely would leave out somebody who might deserve to be there even more.

There needs to be categories... not positional categories but expertise/role categories (interior/perimeter/allround).... and even then i find it extremly hard to rank everybody accurately & factually... Do i go by impact? Do i go by 1st all-defensive honors? Do i go by DPOYs? Do i go by stats and advanced stats like defensive ratings? Do i go by highlights? Do i go by biasness?
Do i ...........

you can't rank defensive guards with centers

people will just rank mostly centers over guards because they think rebounding is part of defense and it makes them a better defender than a guard

also with blocks. when its actually bad defense to try and block an outside shooter

and steals are from playing mostly passing lanes as a roamer

true defensive skills are measured by watching the games

and defensive teams should count

for instance. one person ranked kobe as not a top 10 defensive guard all time. and hes got the most all defensive 1st teams in nba history

:confusedshrug:

in his prime he was a lock down stopper. and its way harder to defend and score at the same time

guys who were great on both ends should get more credit than role players who used 100% energy on defense.

Best defensive players I saw:

Rodman
Moncrief
Hakeem
Duncan
Wallace (Ben)
Robinson
Mutombo
Payton
Pippen
Jordan

Bill Russell
Dikembe Mutombo
Wilt Chamberlain
Bobby Jones
Dennis Rodman
Kevin Garnett
Walt Frazier
Norm Van Lier
Gary Payton
Sidney Moncrief

Not really a 1 through 10 list. Tried to break up a bit by position.

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]you can't rank defensive guards with centers[/QUOTE]
In other words, you (kennethgriffin) don't think you can rank guards with centers on a list like this because it means your lord and savoir Kobe Bryant won't be ranked in anyone's top 10.

I've got news for you...Kobe would be borderline top 10 on a lot of people's list if they did rank guards and bigs separately.

[QUOTE]people will just rank mostly centers over guards because they think rebounding is part of defense and it makes them a better defender than a guard[/QUOTE]
:facepalm

[QUOTE]also with blocks. when its actually bad defense to try and block an outside shooter

and steals are from playing mostly passing lanes as a roamer
[/QUOTE]
:facepalm

[QUOTE]guys who were great on both ends should get more credit than role players who used 100% energy on defense.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm

[QUOTE]in his prime he was a lock down stopper. and its way harder to defend and score at the same time[/QUOTE]
:facepalm

[QUOTE]and defensive teams should count

for instance. one person ranked kobe as not a top 10 defensive guard all time. and hes got the most all defensive 1st teams in nba history[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://www.inthemomlight.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/cry-baby.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Colbertnation64]If you don't feel you can make a judgment correctly, then why would you even make an "all time" list.[/QUOTE]

These players I saw playing, so I feel I can list them. I refrain listing players pre 1980. Therefore, my list is not an all-time list, just a post 1980 list. I know it's arbitrary, but 1980 is the year I started watching any NBA games.

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]you can't rank defensive guards with centers

people will just rank mostly centers over guards because they think rebounding is part of defense and it makes them a better defender than a guard

also with blocks. when its actually bad defense to try and block an outside shooter

and steals are from playing mostly passing lanes as a roamer

true defensive skills are measured by watching the games

and defensive teams should count

for instance. one person ranked kobe as not a top 10 defensive guard all time. and hes got the most all defensive 1st teams in nba history

:confusedshrug:

in his prime he was a lock down stopper. and its way harder to defend and score at the same time

guys who were great on both ends should get more credit than role players who used 100% energy on defense.[/QUOTE]

I'm convinced this clown is a gimmick. There's no way he's not on Jeff's payroll. :roll:

In terms of impact

1. Bill Russell
2. Nate Thurmond
3. Hakeem Olajuwon
4. Wilt Chamberlain
5. David Robinson
6. Ben Wallace
7. Tim Duncan
8. Kevin Garnett
9. Dennis Rodman
10. Dikembe Mutombo

I'm confident with the top 5, but not as much with 6-10.

I think it's very difficult for any perimeter defender to have the same defensive impact as big man who's protecting the paint. A perimeter defender would have to be comparatively much better by position to have equal impact. Taking that into consideration, I might say

1. Bill Russell
2. Dennis Rodman
3. Scottie Pippen
4. Nate Thurmond
5. Hakeem Olajuwon
6. Michael Jordan
7. Sidney Moncrief
8. Gary Payton
9. Wilt Chamberlain
10. Walt Frazier

I'd would much prefer the first list though; it's more true to what I believe really matters - a player's overall impact - and I'm much less confident with the ordering of the second list. It's difficult to rank guards with big men, even with a positional handicap.

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]I'm convinced this clown is a gimmick. There's no way he's not on Jeff's payroll. :roll:[/QUOTE]
Blocks and rebounds are actually bad. Everyone knows that.

[QUOTE=L.Kizzle]Shawn Marion should at least be on the short list.


but my top ten would be:

by position, it's too hard just doing a ten. I can narrow it to ten latter.


[B]Center[/B]
1 Bill Russell
2 Wilt Chamberlain
3 Nate Thurmond
4 Hakeem Olajuwon
5 Dikembe Mutombo
6 Lew Alcindor
7 Bill Walton
8 Ben Wallace
9 David Robinson
10 Alonzo Mourning



[B]Forward[/B]
1 Dennis Rodman
2 Scottie Pippen
3 Kevin Garnett
4 Tim Duncan
5 Gus Johnson
6 Dave Debusschere
7 Michael Cooper
8 Ron Artest
9 Bobby Jones
10 Maurice Lucas


[B]Guards[/B]
1 Walt Frazier
2 Sidney Moncrief
3 Gary Payton
4 Dennis Johnson
5 Michael Jordan
6 Norm Van Lier
7 Joe Dumars
8 K.C. Jones
9 Jerry West
10 Jason Kidd[/QUOTE]
where the hell is mo cheeks????

[QUOTE=KG215]Blocks and rebounds are actually bad. Everyone knows that.[/QUOTE]


rebounds are great. i'm just saying you get more when your a big man. and its totally different than offense or defense. its grabbing a basketball thats in the air. its niether stopping a guy from shooting or shooting over someone

its favored towards big men because theyre taller

so to just say someones a better defender because theyre taller and their position is beside the basket is kind of absurd


and blocks are verry usefull aswell. but its mainly a big mans game. you cant judge perimeter defense on blocks because coaches teach you not to try and block three point shooters or jump shooters because theyel bait you into the foul

contesting shots and staying infront of your defender is guard defense. and thats verry hard to measure in the box score other than the apposing team players points/fg%/turnovers

when it comes down to it you cannot compare big men to guards in terms of defense because its 2 completely different types of defense.

big men almost always win the DPOTY award because of this unfair advantage in recorded statistics and rebounding counting


when infact a guard who averages 6-7 rebounds is more impressive than a center who averages 9-10

and blocking a shot 2 times a game is not more valuable that stopping a great scorer from putting up 30 points


its actually harder to be a perimeter defender because the best scorers are guards/small forwards

[QUOTE=iggy>]where the hell is mo cheeks????[/QUOTE]
In the next group of guards with Alvin Robertson, Mookie Blaylock, Derek Harper, Jerry Sloan and Kobe.