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[IMG]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/files/2012/12/firearm-OECD-UN-data3.jpg[/IMG]
[url]http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2012/12/14/chart-the-u-s-has-far-more-gun-related-killings-than-any-other-developed-country/[/url]
[B][COLOR="Navy"]Another good reason I am going back to the country with the lowest in the world...:applause: [/COLOR][/B]
Iceland is probably the nicest place to live in the universe.
lol[I] the organization of economic and development, excluding Mexico[/I]
So many countries also left out.
:rolleyes:
[QUOTE=SourPatchKids]Iceland is probably the nicest place to live in the universe.[/QUOTE]
lol
[IMG]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/tm/2008/03/ReykjavikMoS20308_428x269_to_468x312.jpg[/IMG]
but would be fun hanging with Theoo.
why didnt they include mexico or russia in that graph?
[QUOTE=Nanners]why didnt they include mexico or russia in that graph?[/QUOTE]
cuz it doesn't fit their agenda
[QUOTE=Nanners]why didnt they include mexico or russia in that graph?[/QUOTE]
the organization of economic and development, excluding Mexico
Obvious agenda.
[QUOTE=Nanners]why didnt they include mexico or russia in that graph?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE] I did not include Mexico, which has about triple the U.S. rate due in large part to the ongoing drug war.[/QUOTE]
no... it is not made up... click on the link and read the article.
Bu Bu But But Mexico!
[QUOTE=LamarOdom]the organization of economic and development, excluding Mexico
Obvious agenda.[/QUOTE]
are you really that daft? Do you not understand the correlation between their position as our illegal transit corridor and the violence there? Its artificially skewed by the public policy of another country.
[QUOTE=boozehound]are you really that daft? Do you not understand the correlation between their position as our illegal transit corridor and the violence there? Its artificially skewed by the public policy of another country.[/QUOTE]
But what about here, does the gang wars in Chicago not skew things? How is that any different than excluding Mexico, which admittedly has it's drug wars on a much higher scale than our gang wars.
[QUOTE=boozehound]are you really that daft? Do you not understand the correlation between their position as our illegal transit corridor and the violence there? Its artificially skewed by the public policy of another country.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=Math2]But what about here, does the gang wars in Chicago not skew things? How is that any different than excluding Mexico, which admittedly has it's drug wars on a much higher scale than our gang wars.[/QUOTE]
Retard gangwars exist in US, I would guess that at least 50% of all homicides are gangrelated
:applause:
even putting in Mexico, U.S. still looks bad as one of the few modern developed countries there..
and even with Mexico there.. I think anyone here who is an adult or with some intelligence will not give a worth to Mexico.. drug cartels, crime, poverty, etc.
[QUOTE=ripthekik]even putting in Mexico, U.S. still looks bad as one of the few modern developed countries there..
and even with Mexico there.. I think anyone here who is an adult or with some intelligence will not give a worth to Mexico.. drug cartels, crime, poverty, etc.[/QUOTE]
If you subtract gang crime related murders the US is right in the middle of the pack.
[QUOTE=ripthekik]even putting in Mexico, U.S. still looks bad as one of the few modern developed countries there..
and even with Mexico there.. I think anyone here who is an adult or with some intelligence will not give a worth to Mexico.. [B]drug cartels, crime, poverty, etc.[/B][/QUOTE]
We have same things here, gangs, crime, poverty. US is the worst in a lot of things as a developed nation. Our whole economic system and careless culture breeds violence.
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organisation_for_Economic_Co-operation_and_Development[/url]
[QUOTE]The Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development (OECD, French: Organisation de coop
[QUOTE=Nanners]why didnt they include mexico or russia in that graph?[/QUOTE]
Russia is not part of the OECD. If you read the article, you would find this
[QUOTE]The above chart measures data for the nations of the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development, which includes all Western countries plus Turkey, Israel, Chile, Japan, and South Korea. [B]I did not include Mexico, which has about triple the U.S. rate due in large part to the ongoing drug war.[/B][/QUOTE]
Russia works with the OECD and may be taking steps to join it, but it's not a member.
The murder rate in the US is way down. The big decline started in 1994 and continues. Seems to me that this correlates to the rise in popularity of assault rifles. Assault rifles sales got a huge boost from the Clinton assault weapons ban. Of course it was not really a ban, as there was many loopholes, and actually led to a huge increase in sales.
Link: [url]http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/murder-rates-nationally-and-state#nat1970[/url]
I am not saying the two are related, but it is very interesting that at the same time assault rifles are increasing in popularity the murder rate is declining dramatically.
I think you could form a hypothesis that the rise in popularity of assault rifles has not impacted the murder rate.
[QUOTE=bmulls]If you subtract gang crime related murders the US is right in the middle of the pack.[/QUOTE]
and if you subtracted gang related murders in other countries, where would america rank then????
[QUOTE=MMM]and if you subtracted gang related murders in other countries, where would america rank then????[/QUOTE]
Don't know, but gang activity in the United States is off the charts compared to European countries
[QUOTE=bmulls]Don't know, but gang activity in the United States is off the charts compared to European countries[/QUOTE]
Yes but you can't just claim something without having the numbers to back you up.
[QUOTE=MMM]Yes but you can't just claim something without having the numbers to back you up.[/QUOTE]
It would take me half an hour to find all those stats just so I could post it on ISH and get negged for my opinion anyway :lol
The point is gang related violence skews the numbers greatly and this chart is biased and clearly agenda driven.
[QUOTE=MMM]Yes but you can't just claim something without having the numbers to back you up.[/QUOTE]
You can make a logical assumption based on some facts. Hell, here in the Bay there seems to be a gang related shooting every other week, especially around Oakland.
[QUOTE=bmulls]It would take me half an hour to find all those stats just so I could post it on ISH and get negged for my opinion anyway :lol
The point is gang related violence skews the numbers greatly and this chart is biased and clearly agenda driven.[/QUOTE]
gang related violence isnt a problem in our society? lets say 2 gangsters were shooting at eachother in front of your house. would you not have a problem with that?:roll:
[QUOTE=longhornfan1234]The murder rate in the US is way down. The big decline started in 1994 and continues. [B]Seems to me that this correlates to the rise in popularity of assault rifles.[/B] Assault rifles sales got a huge boost from the Clinton assault weapons ban. Of course it was not really a ban, as there was many loopholes, and actually led to a huge increase in sales.[/QUOTE]
It also correlates with Wade v. Roe.
[QUOTE=miller-time]It also correlates with Wade v. Roe.[/QUOTE]
Source?
[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]gang related violence isnt a problem in our society? lets say 2 gangsters were shooting at eachother in front of your house. would you not have a problem with that?:roll:[/QUOTE]
You are seriously retarded dude. Stop responding to my posts or learn reading comprehension. Google the words if you don't understand them.
[QUOTE=Graviton]You can make a logical assumption based on some facts. Hell, here in the Bay there seems to be a gang related shooting every other week, especially around Oakland.[/QUOTE]
Ok, and I would make a logical assumption that gang related murders happen in other countries and make up the majority of their murder rates. In Canada for example if you took out gang related crime such as biker gangs, toronto gangs, and quebec mafia then the murder rate would almost be non existent. How many other countries could you make a similar claim.
[QUOTE=longhornfan1234]I am not saying the two are related, but it is very interesting that at the same time assault rifles are increasing in popularity the murder rate is declining dramatically.
I think you could form a hypothesis that the rise in popularity of assault rifles has not impacted the murder rate.[/QUOTE]
I don't think that last sentence was what you mean to say.
Yes, you could form a hypothesis, but it might be a terrible hypothesis. You would get much better luck looking at the demographics of America and how the baby boomers were reaching middle age. You could also look what was happening with street crime with the ending of the first era of crack and you could look at criminal sentencing and how it has changed in the last 20 years. All of those would probably have more of an impact that any of our guns laws.
By the way, you have put your thumb on a classic logical fallacy
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post_hoc_ergo_propter_hoc[/url]
[QUOTE=longhornfan1234]Source?[/QUOTE]
The book Freakonomics.
Basically the question was, in NYC the crime rate dropped quickly and the Giuliani team claim it was due to their methods. However, shortly after that it became dropping in cities all over the country, lots of which didn't use the same methods. So what caused it? They concluded you could make a case for less unwanted pregnancies coming to term. I think they said in cities with access to legal abortion early on, the crime rate fell first.
I'm sure there's a ton of stuff on this, if you google it.
[QUOTE=bmulls]You are seriously retarded dude. Stop responding to my posts or learn reading comprehension. Google the words if you don't understand them.[/QUOTE]
"If you subtract gang crime related murders the US is right in the middle of the pack."
what was the point of that statement. your saying gangcrime isnt a factor in our society, too discount it in statistics. your the one that needs more comprehension and less hunting wtih your guns.
[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]"If you subtract gang crime related murders the US is right in the middle of the pack."
what was the point of that statement. your saying gangcrime isnt a factor in our society, too discount it in statistics. your the one that needs more comprehension and less hunting wtih your guns.[/QUOTE]
I'm saying gang crimes are a huge factor in our society, the single largest factor. If you get rid of gang murders then the US murder rate is close to the rest of the developed world.
You're saying the same thing I'm saying.
[QUOTE=bmulls]I'm saying gang crimes are a huge factor in our society, the single largest factor. If you get rid of gang murders then the US murder rate is close to the rest of the developed world.
You're saying the same thing I'm saying.[/QUOTE]
Gang crimes are a huge factor in the numbers for all the countries whether it is from the mob, cartel, gangs, etc
[QUOTE=bmulls]I'm saying gang crimes are a huge factor in our society, the single largest factor. If you get rid of gang murders then the US murder rate is close to the rest of the developed world.
You're saying the same thing I'm saying.[/QUOTE]
but wtf? How the hell can you just get rid of gang crimes out of the murder rate? It's PART of the murder rate. How would it be fair to take out gang crimes out of the murder rate THEN compare it with other countries?
If I take other countries, and take out their #1 reason for murder crimes, I'd lower the rate too. So what's the point? The U.S. murder rate is high, including gang crimes, that's all there is to it.
You compare the overall murder rate, not anything else. Other countries murder rate include their own gang crimes too.
Seriously, you provide the WORST arguments.
"People shoudn't drive because cars cause death as well"
"people shouldn't drink because alcohol cause death as well"
"if we take away guns, people will kill with knifes, and the death rate will be the same"
"we should take out gang crimes, then U.S. will be comparable to other countries with their full murder rates"
wtf??
You argue like a middle school kid, seriously.
[QUOTE=ripthekik]but wtf? How the hell can you just get rid of gang crimes out of the murder rate? It's PART of the murder rate. How would it be fair to take out gang crimes out of the murder rate THEN compare it with other countries?
If I take other countries, and take out their #1 reason for murder crimes, I'd lower the rate too. So what's the point? The U.S. murder rate is high, including gang crimes, that's all there is to it.
You compare the overall murder rate, not anything else. Other countries murder rate include their own gang crimes too.[/QUOTE]
I'm saying 2 things:
1. The US faces a gang epidemic on a scale that other developed nations can't even fathom. If you're going to leave Mexico off your chart because of it's drug war you also need to take America's gang problem into consideration.
2. Addressing gang violence would do a lot more to prevent gun murder than gun control would because the majority of gang murders are committed with stolen or illegal firearms anyway.
[QUOTE=bmulls]I'm saying 2 things:
1. The US faces a gang epidemic on a scale that other developed nations can't even fathom. If you're going to leave Mexico off your chart because of it's drug war you also need to take America's gang problem into consideration.
2. Addressing gang violence would do a lot more to prevent gun murder than gun control would because the majority of gang murders are committed with stolen or illegal firearms anyway.[/QUOTE]
It could be argued that Mexico's problems are because of America's war on drugs, I don't think the same can be said about America's problems.
[QUOTE=bmulls]I'm saying 2 things:
1. The US faces a gang epidemic on a scale that other developed nations can't even fathom. If you're going to leave Mexico off your chart because of it's drug war you also need to take America's gang problem into consideration.
2. Addressing gang violence would do a lot more to prevent gun murder than gun control would because the majority of gang murders are committed with stolen or illegal firearms anyway.[/QUOTE]
U.S. gang crimes can't even touch Mexico or the countries in Africa. They got 14 year old with guns.
And I've already said, even if you put Mexico there, the U.S. still looks bad. What's left to say then? USA MURDER RATE IS BAD, face it.
[QUOTE=longhornfan1234]Source?[/QUOTE]
Source for a correlation? Well it'd be an inverse correlation since it would be as the number of abortions taking place goes up the amount of violent crime goes down.
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/Violent_crime_rates_1973-2005.jpg[/IMG]
It was decided in 1973, and since people who would have been entering their late teens and early 20s around that 93 94 period (the demographic most likely to commit those sorts of crime - by age and socioeconomic level) were less in number, this effectively lowered the overall crime rate (if the relationship is causal, I'm not saying it is - it is only a correlation after all).
[QUOTE=ripthekik]U.S. gang crimes can't even touch Mexico or the countries in Africa. They got 14 year old with guns.
And I've already said, even if you put Mexico there, the U.S. still looks bad. What's left to say then? USA MURDER RATE IS BAD, face it.[/QUOTE]
I agree it's bad, and I've never said otherwise. We need to get tougher on gang crime and reevaluate the drug laws that fuel it.
[QUOTE=miller-time]Source for a correlation? Well it'd be an inverse correlation since it would be as the number of abortions taking place goes up the amount of violent crime goes down.
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/98/Violent_crime_rates_1973-2005.jpg[/IMG]
It was decided in 1973, and since people who would have been entering their late teens and early 20s around that 93 94 period (the demographic most likely to commit those sorts of crime - by age and socioeconomic level) were less in number, this effectively lowered the overall crime rate (if the relationship is causal, I'm not saying it is - it is only a correlation after all).[/QUOTE]
Depending on your opinion you could argue thats simply a matter of accounting. I wouldn't agree with that argument but playing devils advocate you could argue that abortion is in and of itself a violent crime and as such the rates didn't really change.
My actual question would be what is the actual violent crime and or murder rate compared to these other countries and honestly I don't know the answer to that. If the knife and simple physical violent crime rates are much higher in the other countries then this stat doesn't matter