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This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
This is just beautiful.
Playing like this, Kobe is my favorite player, perhaps ever.
I understand he's playing a terrible defense - I could probably do this on Luke Ridnour too - but he's been doing this for more than a week, and we all know Kobe's good enough to do this to anyone.
Kobe's been a top ten passer and ballhandler for almost his whole career. Even at his most selfish, I would even say top 5. He's just made poor decisions based on impatience and ego. He'll go for stretches playing intelligent ball, but never consistently, to my satisfaction. Could this possibly be a permanent change in approach?
Kobe's been trying to be Jordan all this time, when he should have been trying to be Magic.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
It's like looking at a beautiful girl.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=Clifton]This is just beautiful.
Playing like this, Kobe is my favorite player, perhaps ever.
I understand he's playing a terrible defense - I could probably do this on Luke Ridnour too - but he's been doing this for more than a week, and we all know Kobe's good enough to do this to anyone.
Kobe's been a top ten passer and ballhandler for almost his whole career. Even at his most selfish, I would even say top 5. He's just made poor decisions based on impatience and ego. He'll go for stretches playing intelligent ball, but never consistently, to my satisfaction. Could this possibly be a permanent change in approach?
Kobe's been trying to be Jordan all this time, when he should have been trying to be Magic.[/QUOTE]
:coleman:
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=9erempiree]It's like looking at a beautiful girl.[/QUOTE]
says the *** with the *** avi
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=Clifton]This is just beautiful.
Playing like this, Kobe is my favorite player, perhaps ever.
I understand he's playing a terrible defense - I could probably do this on Luke Ridnour too - but he's been doing this for more than a week, and we all know Kobe's good enough to do this to anyone.
Kobe's been a top ten passer and ballhandler for almost his whole career. Even at his most selfish, I would even say top 5. He's just made poor decisions based on impatience and ego. He'll go for stretches playing intelligent ball, but never consistently, to my satisfaction. Could this possibly be a permanent change in approach?
Kobe's been trying to be Jordan all this time, when he should have been trying to be Magic.[/QUOTE]
I really don't disagree with this. He wouldn't be my favorite player ever, but he'd be one of my favorites. And people think he's not a high IQ player...he's got an ego and is petulant.
He's probably the 7th best player of all-time...but I could be disappointed in the fact that I think he could have been a top 3 player.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=9erempiree]It's like looking at a beautiful girl.[/QUOTE]
You look at Kobe as you would a beautiful girl? I like Kobe as a player too but... Oh my.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[quote]And people think he's not a high IQ player...he's got an ego and is petulant. [/quote]
He might have the highest IQ of anyone in the NBA. Every time he theorizes on the game, it's clear he's got a hell of an intellect. But then he goes out there and shoots 7 for 29 and you're like, well what was the point of all that film-watching and sound theorizing if you're still shooting your team out of games and discouraging all your teammates with your obvious disapproval and mistrust?
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
See the Lakers look great now - 56 with 8:00 left in the 2nd - but what happens when they miss a few open shots in a row? When Gasol drops a couple more passes? How does Kobe respond? That'll be the real test.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
:oldlol:
LA's on a 15-0 run right now with Kobe on the bench.
Minnesota has went 1-11 since Kevin Love went out Jan 4...they aren't just bad right now, they are terrible.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
Yea it's really awesome that he is incapable of playing off the ball making the Lakers' acquisition of Nash a complete waste turning him into a spot up shooter.:rolleyes:
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[quote]LA's on a 15-0 run right now with Kobe on the bench.
Minnesota has went 1-11 since Kevin Love went out Jan 4...they aren't just bad right now, they are terrible.[/quote]
Obviously Kobe's not going to lead a 3pt barrage like this every night. But the point is that Kobe's not just passing to guys when they're open... he's actually putting pressure on the defense *while* waiting for guys to get in a position to score. And then giving them ball just at the right time, in the right place. And if he's doing that the Lakers can't help but win - against anyone. He's actually using the IQ we all know he has. Sure he's doing it against a JV team *tonight*... but he's been doing this to good teams too.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[quote]Yea it's really awesome that he is incapable of playing off the ball making the Lakers' acquisition of Nash a complete waste turning him into a spot up shooter.[/quote]
If you had Magic Johnson on your roster, would you complain that he wasn't playing off-ball enough?
Kobe playing at his most intelligent is not as good as that, but he's close. I prefer Kobe in the high post playmaking to unsuccessful D'Antoni pick and roll basketball with a 39 yo Nash and no pick and roll big men.
Nash as a spot up shooter is going to shoot 45-50% from 3... I'll take that anytime
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
i still don't see it. lakers have been fun to watch but it's not like kobe has flicked a switch and completely transformed his mentality. the switch he flipped is tactical, not strategic. it's preconceived, proactive instead of reactive... "okay, now i have to play like this"
and he's always been a tremendous player with this severely flawed mindset. he's flat out BAD at adjusting within the flow of the game. it doesn't come naturally to him and it never has. not like it does for duncan or lebron, stars who you know will make the right decision just about every trip down the floor, as the situation demands.
i dunno how you guys define basketball iq but i see it as a pseudonym for intuition on the floor. it's the x factor that made jason kidd an all time great. and it has very little to do with off the court analysis by definition, because like you said, if it doesn't come to bear in the actual game, what the hell good is it?
it's like, giving the ball up to a teammate on a breakaway... you can see that as kobe trying to instill confidence and solidarity in the locker room or whatever. but if we consider his history, it's 99% more likely to be just kobe yet again overcompensating for his perceived flaw as a pure gunner.
which is ironically his one real flaw.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
There was a possession there where he had an open three, turned it down, posted up his guy (ridnour i believe...a shorter defender who is definitely not able to guard kobe) and had a good opportunity to shoot, but still didn't and just waited and passed it.
This gimmick can't last and if it does it's not the best for the team. He's actively trying to rack up assists or prove people wrong.
When the shot is there, you shoot it...you dont wait until the defender recovers so then you can pass it :oldlol:
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE]There was a possession there where he had an open three, turned it down, posted up his guy (ridnour i believe...a shorter defender who is definitely not able to guard kobe) and had a good opportunity to shoot, but still didn't and just waited and passed it.[/QUOTE]
he just passed up an open baseline layup to kick to his covered teammate at the top of the circle......
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
See?
Kobe just had a lay-up there (7:40 or remaining in the 3rd quarter) and he dished it back out towards the top of the key to Earl Clark.
That was seriously one of the most awkward plays i've ever seen. :oldlol:
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=RidonKs]he just passed up an open baseline layup to kick to his covered teammate at the top of the circle......[/QUOTE]
That's Kobe in his petulant, "I'm proving you wrong", passive-aggressive style of play which is really a back hand to himself, teammates, and coaches.
He did it in a game under Phil in the 2001 season where he deliberately passed up wide open shots. I believe against the Kings.
It goes back to as you described Kobe's flawed approach. He doesn't react on the fly, everything is pre-meditated and contrived.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[quote]and he's always been a tremendous player with this severely flawed mindset. he's flat out BAD at adjusting within the flow of the game. it doesn't come naturally to him and it never has. not like it does for duncan or lebron, stars who you know will make the right decision just about every trip down the floor, as the situation demands.[/quote]
You're right. And great post in general.
I do think that, aside from Kobe undergoing a total conversion of heart, and being a real human being, and playing like one... this awkward Kobe is >>> the gunner.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
What would be ideal for Kobe is a balance between the 2 approaches. 2008 is a perfect example, the roster overachieved because he was individually dominant when he had to be, played both ends, and made his teammates better. The 2001 playoffs are the other example of Kobe at his best in terms of approach and all around game.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=RidonKs]i still don't see it. lakers have been fun to watch but it's not like kobe has flicked a switch and completely transformed his mentality. the switch he flipped is tactical, not strategic. [B]it's preconceived, proactive instead of reactive... "okay, now i have to play like this"[/B][/QUOTE]
This is dead on. His unselfish play has been helping his teammates play better but you can tell he is not a natural pointguard, not because of a lack of skill because he definitely has the skill but because it seems like he makes up his mind before he even catches the ball. Sitting at home I can tell whether or not he is going to pass or shoot before the play
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]What would be ideal for Kobe is a balance between the 2 approaches. 2008 is a perfect example, the roster overachieved because he was individually dominant when he had to be, played both ends, and made his teammates better. The 2001 playoffs are the other example of Kobe at his best in terms of approach and all around game.[/QUOTE]
Yes, bro. Totally right. The 2008 season, and 2001 playoffs. Was Kobe just being himself, playing HIS game.
Because in those seasons he let the game come to him. Instead of being contrived, preconceived, forced or trying to adapt to a post MJ legacy.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
Kobe went to the basket again and didn't look for his shot and ended up passing it to Clark who wasn't even open.
This is just getting weird now (I know you weren't talking about this...but instead were talking about when Kobe had 4 good passes in the 1st quarter...but yeah). I don't see how you could look at this and say it's good for the team.
They are lucky they are playing Minnesota without Kevin Love. These wasted possessions wouldn't cut it against a good or even average team.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
And yeah i agree with the above...in the 2009 playoffs he had a great scoring game combined with a good passing game and it was something i never seen from him.
I don't really remember 2001 of his much...i mostly watched the eastern playoffs and wasn't even that hardcore of a bball fan at that point.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=Money 23]Yes, bro. Totally right. The 2008 season, and 2001 playoffs. Was Kobe just being himself, playing HIS game.
Because in those seasons he let the game come to him. Instead of being contrived, preconceived, forced or trying to adapt to a post MJ legacy.[/QUOTE]
I think the 2008 season and 2001 playoffs were also dictated by what happened before. Kobe was frustrated after his incredible individual play in '06 and '07, and receiving criticism, hence the trade demand. I do think it was good for Kobe to get those seasons "out of his system" because I think on some level, he did want to see how much he could score and how far he could take a team virtually by himself. Playing for Team USA also motivated him, he lost 20 pounds to take pressure off his knee, regain quickness and be a defensive stopper, and that carried into the 2008 season. Playing harder defensively also set the tone for getting more guys involved because it was a necessity.
In 2001, he had been criticized by Phil and feuded with Shaq while the Lakers underachieved early in the season. I think Kobe going down and the Lakers going 11-3 without him caused him to change his approach in that case.
2002 was also a good year in this regard, but I mention it less than the other two because he was less spectacular. He seemed to be pushing himself more in '08 season and '01 playoffs, but not in a bad way. But he played an excellent all around game in 2002 and did exactly what he had to do. He took over when they needed him to without forcing it, particularly late in games vs the Spurs. In fact, at one point in the playoffs, Phil told Kobe to look for his own shot more early in games. Even after the 56 in 3 quarters vs Memphis, it didn't seem like he let that get to his head.
I'll throw '09 in there as well. It's pretty much to his '08 what his '02 is to his '01.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
Not fond of the PASSive Kobe. I understand he is doing the right thing shooting less and allowing Pau and Dwight to enjoy playing is beneficial for the team chemistry but I admire Kobe aggressively scoring with beautiful shooting form and footwork.
He is turning down too many opportunities to score and in the Suns game he kept giving MWP the ball for brick after airball.
The wait for the double and look for cutters is not Kobe trying to scorch the defense for 40, it's attract defensive attention and let an inferior scorer try and convert.
I admire him for stepping out of what defines him and becoming something different but I hope he remembers he is only player on that team who can bury any defense with points when he's on.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
ISH is bi-polar. Kobe is sharing the ball but they can't make anything. Just hogged the ball, Kobe.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=Clifton]If you had Magic Johnson on your roster, would you complain that he wasn't playing off-ball enough?
Kobe playing at his most intelligent is not as good as that, but he's close. I prefer Kobe in the high post playmaking to unsuccessful D'Antoni pick and roll basketball with a 39 yo Nash and no pick and roll big men.
Nash as a spot up shooter is going to shoot 45-50% from 3... I'll take that anytime[/QUOTE]
nash chose to sign in la because he wanted a ring. nash knew what he was doing, why blame LA for that?
edit: i guess it cut out the person u quoted.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=upside24]Not fond of the PASSive Kobe. I understand he is doing the right thing shooting less and allowing Pau and Dwight to enjoy playing is beneficial for the team chemistry but I admire Kobe aggressively scoring with beautiful shooting form and footwork.
He is turning down too many opportunities to score and in the Suns game he kept giving MWP the ball for brick after airball.
The wait for the double and look for cutters is not Kobe trying to scorch the defense for 40, it's attract defensive attention and let an inferior scorer try and convert.
I admire him for stepping out of what defines him and becoming something different but I hope he remembers he is only player on that team who can bury any defense with points when he's on.[/QUOTE]
Kobe shooting less is not making much of a difference.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
I really like the way Kobe's been playing, but he should still look to score a lot, since he's one of the best scorers ever and still is a top scorer in the league. I've caught limited snippets of the game today, but it seemed like he may be forcing the issue today at least, as others have said.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
Kobe is arguably GOAT, and that scares people. They will hate on him whether he shoots more or passes more.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
Kobe, the only player in NBA history that gets shitted on for either shooting or passing.
:roll:
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]What would be ideal for Kobe is a balance between the 2 approaches. 2008 is a perfect example, the roster overachieved because he was individually dominant when he had to be, played both ends, and made his teammates better. The 2001 playoffs are the other example of Kobe at his best in terms of approach and all around game.[/QUOTE]
That would be good, no doubt. He won't able to play the same level of defense obviously, but the all-around game is definitely reasonable.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]:oldlol:
LA's on a 15-0 run right now with Kobe on the bench.
[B]Minnesota has went 1-11 since Kevin Love went out Jan 4...they aren't just bad right now, they are terrible.[/B][/QUOTE]
This.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
So he actively tried to rack up assists, and he gets the ball more than anyone in the league besides Durant and Lebron, and yet he could only get 8 assists against the T-Wolves.
Not sure if that's an accomplishment or proof that his passing vision is average at best.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]So he actively tried to rack up assists, and he gets the ball more than anyone in the league besides Durant and Lebron, and yet he could only get 8 assists.
Not sure if that's an accomplishment or proof that his passing vision is average at best.[/QUOTE]
What about the back to back 14 assist games?
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
How could you watch the last 5 games and think he has average passing vision? Dude has thrown so many sick interior passes for easy layups and dunks. No, the problem is that he's not a freaking PG. It doesn't come naturally to him (Duh). It's pathetic that the best player on the team can't even take play to his greatest strength BY FAR, which is scoring the ball. Dude is a top 5 scorer in history. And he has to go out there and completely change his game just so his teammates can feel more "involved" so that they can play defense.
:facepalm
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=chazzy]What about the back to back 14 assist games?[/QUOTE]
Those were good.
These last two games were bad for him.
So like I said, he's average.
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]Those were good.
These last two games were bad for him.
So like I said, he's average.[/QUOTE]
how can kobe be average when hes the best player in the league? :confusedshrug: makes no sense
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]Those were good.
These last two games were bad for him.
So like I said, he's average.[/QUOTE]
lol
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Re: This is what Kobe should have been for the last decade.
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]
So like I said, he's average.[/QUOTE]
You're an idiot.