Lebron+wade= 1, Jordan+pippen=6, magic+kareem=5, Kobe+pau= 2

wade = top 25-30 all time
pippen = top 20-25 all time
kareem = arguable goat
pau = top 90-100 all time


pau:

averaged 19ppg
0-12 playoff rec as 1st option
averaged only 9 rebounds as a 7 footer
4 reserve allstar games
2 all nba third teams


is currently averaging 13/8/3 on 45%fg's as a 7 foot center/power forward


as for the other 3 guys

- dwyane wade

24/5/6 career average
7 all nba teams (2 first teams)
3 all defensive teams
finals mvp
allstar mvp
9 time starting allstar


- scottie pippen


20/7/6 average from 1990-1998
16/6/5 average career
7 all nba teams (3 first teams)
10 all defensive teams ( 8 first team )
allstar mvp
7 time allstar (starting some games )



kareem abdul jabbar


24/11/3 career
15 all nba teams (10 first teams )
11 all defensive teams ( 5 first teams )
7 time mvp
2 time finals mvp
19 time allstar ( started most )




3 hall of fame legends

1 boarderline allstar for half his career. a nobody for the other half


this is why i don't care that kobe had shaq for his first 3 rings... his 3 straight finals, back 2 back titles/finals mvps with a guy like pau gasol is something nobody else has ever done in nba history

hakeem did it once ( then won in 95 with a legend )

walton did it once

barry did it once

dirk did it once ( but lately its been obvious tyson chandler as a defensive anchor was the real reason the mavs were dominant )

duncan did it once in 2003

only these guys had comparable running mates for a single title

every other big name in nba history to lead a team to a championship did it with a legendary side kick

kobe did it with a bum................TWICE

Not being a high caliber star historically doesnt mean him a bum.

[QUOTE=ZeN]Not being a high caliber star historically doesnt mean him a bum.[/QUOTE]


but he was a bum

hes pau gasol

the softest player in history

couldnt rebound the ball at 7 feet tall

could barely jump over a sheet of paper

settles for 20 footers

gets dunked on by 6-4 players




he was solid when the lakers won titles. but he was still one of the 5 worst 2nd options in championship history

and he should NOT make the hall of fame just because of a few silver medals from the olympics

Pau was great in the 09 & 10 Playoffs.
18/11/3/2 58FG
20/11/4/2 54FG

"Bum" :facepalm

dirk did it once ( but lately its been obvious tyson chandler as a defensive anchor was the real reason the mavs were dominant )


You are an idiot. Dirk hasn't been playing like in 2011 playoffs, how can you get to this stupid conclusion?

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Pau was great in the 09 & 10 Playoffs.
18/11/3 58FG
20/11/4 54FG

"Bum" :facepalm[/QUOTE]


i said he was solid during the titles

hes a bum career wise


without kobe he would have had a career similar to shareef abdur rahim

[QUOTE=Segatti]dirk did it once ( but lately its been obvious tyson chandler as a defensive anchor was the real reason the mavs were dominant )


You are an idiot. Dirk hasn't been playing like in 2011 playoffs, how can you get to this stupid conclusion?[/QUOTE]


i dunno... the knicks suddenly a title contender and a solid defensive team?

tyson is obviously a garnett type defensive anchor out there

Gasol averaged 20 and 11 and 2 blocks per game on 54% shooting in the 2010 playoffs. What a bum

Gasol was robbed of a fmvp

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]i said he was solid during the titles

hes a bum career wise


without kobe he would have had a career similar to shareef abdur rahim[/QUOTE]

and without shaq and gasol and phil jackson kobe would have had a career similar to allen iverson.

so what? means nothing....

Gasol during the two title runs was absolutely great. Way better than his numbers even suggest considering how clutch he was as well.

[QUOTE=asdf1990]Gasol was robbed of a fmvp[/QUOTE]
:roll:

33/8/6 2009 finals average

30/6/5 2010 finals average


main play maker, main ball handler too

:lol

Kobe shot 25% on the most shot attempts in Game 7 and benefitted from the other team's defensive anchor going down with an injury for one of those rings.

I don't even care if you classify Gasol as a "bum", but it's impossible to paint Kobe as a hero who carried that team when others had to clean up his mess.

[QUOTE=asdf1990]Gasol was robbed of a fmvp[/QUOTE]
Your mother was robbed of her birth control

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]:roll:

33/8/6 2009 finals average

30/6/5 2010 finals average


main play maker, main ball handler too

:lol[/QUOTE]

30/6/5 are pretty good numbers for a sidekick

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]and without shaq and gasol and phil jackson kobe would have had a career similar to allen iverson.

so what? means nothing....

Gasol during the two title runs was absolutely great. Way better than his numbers even suggest considering how clutch he was as well.[/QUOTE]


i know everyone needs help

kobe just needed allot less than 90% of finals mvps

ofcourse if you take off your 2nd best player itel be hard to win

just saying kobes second best player for 2 straight titles was PAU GASOFT


lakers might be one of the only teams in history to win a title with ZERO interior defense

:bowdown:

Gasol led the Lakers in Win Shares each of the 3 full seasons he was there (from 2009 to 2011)
He finished 2nd in the league in 2011 in it, led the Lakers in both PER and Win Shares in 2010 and led the entire playoffs in Win Shares in 2010 while having a 24.0 PER in the playoffs and posted a 25.5 PER in the 2010 finals. Had over a 4.3 Win Share in 2009 as well in the playoffs.

He wasn't a superstar by name, but that is superstar production and even had greater production than his own teammate in some of those years.

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]i know everyone needs help

kobe just needed allot less than 90% of finals mvps

ofcourse if you take off your 2nd best player itel be hard to win

just saying kobes second best player for 2 straight titles was PAU GASOFT


lakers might be one of the only teams in history to win a title with ZERO interior defense

:bowdown:[/QUOTE]

i don't see how gasol/odom/fisher/bynum/ariza(artest) coached by phil jackson is not a lot of help when you are playing the competition the Lakers played...

honestly the only great team they played was the 10 celtics...and it went 7 and could have gone either way

Hakeem won it with vernon maxwell as the Rocket's 2nd option in the playoffs and he averaged 14ppg on 37% shooting.

so Hakeem the G.O.A.T. right?

[QUOTE=HardwoodLegend]Kobe shot 25% on the most shot attempts in Game 7 and benefitted from the other team's defensive anchor going down with an injury for one of those rings.

I don't even care if you classify Gasol as a "bum", but it's impossible to paint Kobe as a hero who carried that team when others had to clean up his mess.[/QUOTE]
The Lakers shot 32% as a team. While Kobe struggled from the field, he got to the Line 15 times, 9 times in the 4th quarter. Also grabbed 15 rebounds, the most defensive rebounds in the game. Nobody cleaned up his "mess". If his teammates showed up in Game 5, there would be no need for a Game 7.

[QUOTE=Duncan21formvp]Gasol led the Lakers in Win Shares each of the 3 full seasons he was there (from 2009 to 2011)
He finished 2nd in the league in 2011 in it, led the Lakers in both PER and Win Shares in 2010 and led the entire playoffs in Win Shares in 2010 while having a 24.0 PER in the playoffs and posted a 25.5 PER in the 2010 finals. Had over a 4.3 Win Share in 2009 as well in the playoffs.

He wasn't a superstar by name, but that is superstar production and even had greater production than his own teammate in some of those years.[/QUOTE]
Kobe led the Lakers in PER and WS in the 2009 Playoffs and in PER in the 2010 Playoffs. Those stats are bullshit anyway.

Clyde Drexler had a higher playoff WS in the 1995 Playoffs than Hakeem.

Pau Gasol had a higher playoff PER in 2010 than every single playoff Larry Bird had except '84.

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]The Lakers shot 32% as a team.[/QUOTE]

Then that speaks to the fact that the Lakers faced a historically bad old ass team missing their young defensive anchor.

Once again, Kobe lucked out. LUCK.

[QUOTE=HardwoodLegend]Then that speaks to the fact that the Lakers faced a historically bad old ass team missing their young defensive anchor.

Once again, Kobe lucked out. LUCK.[/QUOTE]
Did he luck out in Game 5 when he had 21 straight laker points in one stretch, finishing with 38 points, but lost?

[QUOTE=HardwoodLegend]Then that speaks to the fact that the Lakers faced a historically bad old ass team missing their young defensive anchor.

Once again, Kobe lucked out. LUCK.[/QUOTE]

So mad.

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Pau was great in the 09 & 10 Playoffs.
18/11/3/2 58FG
20/11/4/2 54FG

"Bum" :facepalm[/QUOTE]

:oldlol: OP's a retard.

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Did he luck out in Game 5 when he had 21 straight laker points in one stretch, finishing with 38 points, but lost?[/QUOTE]

Naw, Game 5 was his own fault. Chemistry killer in that game. He knew he was facing a old senile weak opponent and tried to do too much.

[QUOTE=Deuce Bigalow]Did he luck out in Game 5 when he had 21 straight laker points in one stretch, finishing with 38 points, but lost?[/QUOTE]

Gasol decided not to carry Kobe that game and lakers lost

[QUOTE=LoneyROY7]Hakeem > Kobe then b/c he did it with a worse supporting cast.[/QUOTE]


for 1 title.. yea... if all these guys only had 1 title. hakeem would be at the top


but hakeem only did it once, and overall twice with his 2nd coming with clyde


kobe has multiple rings with no other hall of famer. and 5 overall as a guy averaging 25-30ppg/5reb/5ast+


only guy hakeem outranks out of those 4 guys is lebron

OK we get it. Kobe's second option was clearly not as good as Jordan, LeBron or Magic/Kareem's second option. But despite not being very superstar heavy, a team of Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Ariza, Fish coached by Phil Jackson is by no means a bad team.

And Gasol certainly is no bum(or at least wasn't back then 08-10).

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]for 1 title.. yea... if all these guys only had 1 title. hakeem would be at the top


but hakeem only did it once, and overall twice with his 2nd coming with clyde


kobe has multiple rings with no other hall of famer. and 5 overall as a guy averaging 25-30ppg/5reb/5ast+


only guy hakeem outranks out of those 4 guys is lebron[/QUOTE]

What are you even saying? Pau isn't a HOFer? :oldlol:

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy]What are you even saying? Pau isn't a HOFer? :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
You actually read his shit? It's cancerous.

[QUOTE=Eat Like A Bosh]OK we get it. Kobe's second option was clearly not as good as Jordan, LeBron or Magic/Kareem's second option. But despite not being very superstar heavy, a team of Kobe, Gasol, Odom, Bynum, Ariza, Fish coached by Phil Jackson is by no means a bad team.

And Gasol certainly is no bum(or at least wasn't back then 08-10).[/QUOTE]


it wasnt bad... but it wasnt great

odom never made an allstar team ( bosh made 8, rodman is a legendary defensive anchor/rebounder, worthy is a HOF legend )

bynum in 2009 and 2010 didnt even play. he averaged like 5ppg and sat 4th q's during those 2 title runs

ariza is a nobody... career 9/4/1 average man... solid defender. crap everywhere else IMO

fish hit clutch shots. but he was a bad defender, old, slow at the time. kobe was the pg and sg for the lakers. fish just hit a few spot up threes and never ran the offense



phil is great... but pat riley isnt? phil coached mike too...

spo is alright. but they won a title against scott brooks. both coaches werent really legendary


not too many teams win without a good coach

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]i know everyone needs help

kobe just needed allot less than 90% of finals mvps

ofcourse if you take off your 2nd best player itel be hard to win

just saying kobes second best player for 2 straight titles was PAU GASOFT


[B]lakers might be one of the only teams in history to win a title with ZERO interior defense [/B]

:bowdown:[/QUOTE]

The heat had way less interior D

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]odom never made an allstar team[/QUOTE]

He should have made it at least 3 different times, so you can call him all-star caliber.

He was a triple-double waiting to happen and copped a 6th Man of the Year award. It was a luxury for Kobe to have that kind of bench support.

The attempt to sell Kobe as this guy who carry a team to titles by himself falls short when you see what happened in the years immediately following Shaq's depature.

We get it.

Kobe> Jordan and LeBron combined!

The '09 and '10 Lakers were the traditional style championship team, with one superstar, a great all-star sidekick, and varied contributions from good role players in the playoffs. Nothing more, nothing less.

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]wade = top 25-30 all time
pippen = top 20-25 all time
kareem = arguable goat
pau = top 90-100 all time

[/QUOTE]

Pau's better then top 90. Name 90 players better then him before you make that statement.

Its funny you say all this and conveniently leave out that Kobe won 3 playing with an arguable top 5, definitely top 10 player of all-time at his peak which was a top 1-5 peak of all-time. So if he overachieved by winning 2 with a top 90 player of all-time, isn't that kinda irrelevant because he underachieved by winning only 3 with one of the greatest players of all-time?

And statements like this are very misleading. Wade wasn't at a top 25-30 all-time level last year when Lebron won with him. Pippen was definitely not at a top 20-25 (arguably not a top 20-25 player anyway) all-time level for all of those titles. Kareem was a shell of himself for at least 3 of those titles with Magic, in fact Pau in those 2 titles was probably better then Kareem was for his last 2 titles.

Shaq was at his absolute peak for those 3 titles. In fact, you can easily argue that out of Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Russell, Wilt, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Hakeem, and Lebron, only Kobe played with as great of a player as peak Shaq.

[QUOTE=HardwoodLegend]Naw, Game 5 was his own fault. Chemistry killer in that game. He knew he was facing a old senile weak opponent and tried to do too much.[/QUOTE]
38 of the team's 86 points
Most assists on the team
Rest of his team shot 35%

dumbass
[QUOTE=asdf1990]Gasol decided not to carry Kobe that game and lakers lost[/QUOTE]
Carry what? Kobe's luggage?

[QUOTE=Bigsmoke]Hakeem won it with vernon maxwell as the Rocket's 2nd option in the playoffs and he averaged 14ppg on 37% shooting.

so Hakeem the G.O.A.T. right?[/QUOTE]

:rockon:

The Lakers had the squad to win titles for their era. The West teams for the most part had soft midgets in the paint and what it came down to is none of those weak west teams had a frontline that could compete with the size and length of Gasol, Bynum, and Odom. Bynum didn't even have to be completely healthy in '09 to be effective against the cupcake frontlines of the west. LA won because they could simply over-power most teams on the offensive boards and dominate the paint. The '10 Celtics had a tougher frontline than any other team LA faced which is why it went 7 games.

[QUOTE=kennethgriffin]i know everyone needs help

kobe just needed allot less than 90% of finals mvps

ofcourse if you take off your 2nd best player itel be hard to win

just saying kobes second best player for 2 straight titles was PAU GASOFT


lakers might be one of the only teams in history to win a title with ZERO interior defense

:bowdown:[/QUOTE]


You say the dumbest shit. How did the Lakers have no interior defense? Gasol may not be an anchor, but he still played solid defense and through both of the Lakers championships, Lamar Odom was clearly their best defensive player and he played defense INSIDE. The laker's sure as hell weren't rated so high defensively those two season because of Kobe Bryant that's for sure.