36.2mpg 23.9ppg 6.2rpg 5.5apg 2.5spg 1.3bpg 3.1topg .532%fg
Beasted through this month.
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36.2mpg 23.9ppg 6.2rpg 5.5apg 2.5spg 1.3bpg 3.1topg .532%fg
Beasted through this month.
I thought he might of been done but he's been awesome, gona make heat tough to beat in the playoffs
Nah, I'd rather talk about LeBron a bit more.
i want everyone to keep in mind, this is the type of help Lebron has. The only reason he will win any ring is because of this. And we haven't even talked about Bosh.
[QUOTE=Smoke117]36.2mpg 23.9ppg 6.2rpg 5.5apg 2.5spg 1.3bpg 3.1topg .532%fg
Beasted through the month.[/QUOTE]
not too shabby. he's quietly killing them.
[QUOTE=ripthekik]i want everyone to keep in mind, this is the type of help Lebron has. The only reason he will win any ring is because of this. And we haven't even talked about Bosh.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
[QUOTE=ripthekik]i want everyone to keep in mind, this is the type of help Lebron has. The only reason he will win any ring is because of this. And we haven't even talked about Bosh.[/QUOTE]
:facepalm
Quick, someone post Shaq's three peat regular season and finals numbers.
[QUOTE=Horatio33]Quick, someone post Shaq's three peat regular season and finals numbers.[/QUOTE]
Don't worry, Shaq will tell you all about it. You won't even have to ask.
:bowdown: :bowdown:
[QUOTE=ripthekik]i want everyone to keep in mind, this is the type of help Lebron has. The only reason he will win any ring is because of this. And we haven't even talked about Bosh.[/QUOTE]
I think it's reasonable to say that Miami is stacked. They have 3 All Star starters in the prime of their careers and several solid role players. However, Lebron took a trash Cleveland team to the NBA Finals. The dude is pretty much a one man team. I don't think it's fair to diminish Lebron's ring just because he has a lot of help.
I love the fact he's getting healthy right before the playoffs so we can make that push for da chip
:oldlol: Just two months ago, Kobetards like that were saying Wade was done, Wade was garbage. Just one bad week of games and he was a scrub. LOL
Now they're saying he's a superstar, and the Heat are stacked.
[QUOTE=ripthekik]i want everyone to keep in mind, this is the type of help Lebron has. The only reason he will win any ring is because of this. And we haven't even talked about Bosh.[/QUOTE]
:applause:
LeBron probably has the most stacked team in nba history..
[QUOTE=dunksby]Nah, I'd rather talk about LeBron a bit more.[/QUOTE]
Seriously. It's not even worth trying to promote Wade any more. The sports media world made up their minds about what class of player he is long before the Decision. If his pre-LBJ career couldn't break him out of that perceptional box, nothing he does now ever will.
After he retires, I may write a book that attempts to set the record straight, but, for now, the hell with it. It's like pissing into the wind.
[QUOTE=DMV2]:oldlol: Just two months ago, Kobetards like that were saying Wade was done, Wade was garbage. Just one bad week of games and he was a scrub. LOL
Now they're saying he's a superstar, and the Heat are stacked.[/QUOTE]
Wade is a superstar, the Heat are stacked. :confusedshrug:
Sometimes people forget because Wade had to sacrifice his personal game to help the team out following him playing his ass off and the Heat still losing to Dallas 2 seasons ago.
However Laker fans have a stacked team too, they just haven't been able to gel because there two best players hate each other because one is a five time champion and the other is a career whiner.
I'm just pointing out their hypocrisy.
Getting ready for the finals
[QUOTE=j wrong]Seriously. It's not even worth trying to promote Wade any more. The sports media world made up their minds about what class of player he is long before the Decision. If his pre-LBJ career couldn't break him out of that perceptional box, nothing he does now ever will.
[B]After he retires, I may write a book that attempts to set the record straight[/B], but, for now, the hell with it. It's like pissing into the wind.[/QUOTE]
lol, come on son.
Even your momma isn't going to read that "book". The perceptional box where you dwell is that of a self-important troll.
[QUOTE=Kobe 4 The Win]lol, come on son.
Even your momma isn't going to read that "book". The perceptional box where you dwell is that of a self-important troll.[/QUOTE]
Well, good thing this self-important troll gets paid to write for a living. It does make getting published easier. But, you're right about one thing-- it may not end up taking book form. A multi-media website would be the ideal medium. I had planned to launch it this offseason, but then between the elections and Sandy, I was too busy getting paid to write.
But, whatever comes out and whenever it comes out, I'll be sure to let you know, so you can come post about Kobe, mmkay?
[QUOTE=jrong]Seriously. It's not even worth trying to promote Wade any more. The sports media world made up their minds about what class of player he is long before the Decision. If his pre-LBJ career couldn't break him out of that perceptional box, nothing he does now ever will.
After he retires, I may write a book that attempts to set the record straight, but, for now, the hell with it. It's like pissing into the wind.[/QUOTE]
Not sure what you're trying to imply here, but he's definitely not in Lebron's class nor has his overall career been. He's had individual seasons here and there, but thats it.
what the stats dont show is how he turns up the energy level in the 4th and does the heavy lifting. when he flips that switch, the whole team's switch is flipped.
[QUOTE=DMV2]I'm just pointing out their hypocrisy.[/QUOTE]
Agenda driven idiots can be pointed out easily.
Some of the people on here you just can't take seriously. I was disappointed about Wade's start, but it would be foolish to ever consider the man "done", unless it was painfully obvious that he kept the stretch going on for months.
[QUOTE=KOBE143]:applause:
LeBron probably has the most stacked team in nba history..[/QUOTE]
No doubt.
YOLO. no one in history wins alone anyway, u can argue Dirk, but he's got a solid team as well. more over LeBron's not just riding his team, he's lifting them. I think LeBron made a great move. building his legacy achieving more rings, why do people keep bashing him, why do we want LeBron to waste his peak.
[QUOTE=guy]Not sure what you're trying to imply here, but he's definitely not in Lebron's class nor has his overall career been. He's had individual seasons here and there, but thats it.[/QUOTE]
[B]Career per 36[/B]:
[B]James[/B]: 25 ppg, 6.6 rebs, 6.3 apg, 1.6 stls, 0.8 blks, 48.9%
[B]Wade[/B]: 24.2 ppg, 4.9 rebs, 5.9 apg, 1.7 stls, 1.0 blks, 48.8%
That's how far below LeBron's class he is. If both players played the same minutes, assuming all other variables are constant, James is good for an extra .8 ppg, 1.7 rpg (height), and .4 apg. He also provides .1 fewer spg and .2 fewer bpg, while shooting .001% better (FG% obviously is not applicable to per 36).
Now you might argue that there would be some attrition expected in Wade's rate of production if he had played the extra minutes. Fair point.
But, I'd say that's more than off-set by the fact that he has only played half as many years as the undisputed #1 option on his team and played through the equivalent of at least two full seasons while being injury-limited, wouldn't you?
And I won't even try to speculate on how different the "class system" among NBA superstars would look today if Wade hadn't been kept out of the Finals in 2005 by getting hurt while up 3-2 on Detroit or hadn't had the injury in 2007 when the Heat were in position to repeat (or perhaps three-peat if not for the misfortune in 2005?).
Thank you for illustrating why I face an obligation to publish something.
[QUOTE=jrong]Well, good thing this self-important troll gets paid to write for a living. It does make getting published easier. But, you're right about one thing-- it may not end up taking book form. A multi-media website would be the ideal medium. I had planned to launch it this offseason, but then between the elections and Sandy, I was too busy getting paid to write.
But, whatever comes out and whenever it comes out, I'll be sure to let you know, so you can come post about Kobe, mmkay?[/QUOTE]
lol
I don't care if you get paid for writing or slinging rocks, nobody's going to read that book. Thanks for the invite though because I'm dying to read some of your copy.
The multi-media website might not be such a great idea either if it relies on NBA owned content. I doubt they would give you their express written consent. :oldlol:
[QUOTE=jrong][B]Career per 36[/B]:
[B]James[/B]: 25 ppg, 6.6 rebs, 6.3 apg, 1.6 stls, 0.8 blks, 48.9%
[B]Wade[/B]: 24.2 ppg, 4.9 rebs, 5.9 apg, 1.7 stls, 1.0 blks, 48.8%
That's how far below LeBron's class he is. If both players played the same minutes, assuming all other variables are constant, James is good for an extra .8 ppg, 1.7 rpg (height), and .4 apg. He also provides .1 fewer spg and .2 fewer bpg, while shooting .001% better (FG% obviously is not applicable to per 36).
Now you might point out that there would be some attrition expected in Wade's rate of production if he had played the same minutes. Fair point.
But, I'd say that's more than off-set by the fact that he has only played half as many years as the undisputed #1 option on his team and played through the equivalent of at least two full seasons while being injury-limited, wouldn't you?
Thank you for illustrating why I face an obligation to publish something.[/QUOTE]
Ummm, they don't play the same amount of minutes though? We don't care about how much they produce per minute, we care about how much they actually produce. Throw in the fact that Lebron has basically played a full season every season of his career and is arguably the most durable player ever, while Wade has had multiple seasons where he's missed a significant amount of games and even that doesn't tell the whole story of his durability because he's played a ton of games handicapped with injuries. Lebron's been more consistent throughout his career, which is what per 36 stats usually hide. I would say out of their 10 seasons in the league, they've been in the same class for 4 of those seasons, which are 05, 06, 09, and 11. 07 is debateable depending on how much you weigh Wade's injury. In 08, 10, 12, 13, Lebron was clearly playing at a higher class then Wade, while Wade has never separated himself from Lebron like that. Don't get me wrong, Wade is absolutely an all-time great player and clearly one of the greatest players ever. But for his career, he's basically a much smaller, significantly less durable, with lesser passing skills version of Lebron. I wouldn't call that being in the same class.
I'll say 5(including '04).
04: Tie
05: Wade
06: Wade
07: Lebron
08: Lebron
09: Lebron
10: Lebron
11: Wade
12: Lebron
13: Lebron
[QUOTE=DMV2]:oldlol: Just two months ago, Kobetards like that were saying Wade was done, Wade was garbage. Just one bad week of games and he was a scrub. LOL
Now they're saying he's a superstar, and the Heat are stacked.[/QUOTE]
That was actually Heat and Lebron fans.
[QUOTE=D-Wade316]I'll say 5(including '04).
04: Tie
05: Wade
06: Wade
07: Lebron
08: Lebron
09: Lebron
10: Lebron
11: Wade
12: Lebron
13: Lebron[/QUOTE]
I'd give 09 to wade. He was better statistically in almost every category
[QUOTE=guy]Not sure what you're trying to imply here, but he's definitely not in Lebron's class [B]nor has his overall career been[/B]. He's had individual seasons here and there, but thats it.[/QUOTE]
That's really not true...I think Wade is remarkably under-appreciated and he was right there with LeBron and much of the time ahead of him, especially in career...up until 2011 especially.
[QUOTE=D-Wade316]I'll say 5(including '04).
04: Tie
05: Wade
06: Wade
07: Lebron
08: Lebron
09: Lebron
10: Lebron
11: Wade
12: Lebron
13: Lebron[/QUOTE]
Are you including playoffs or just the regular season?
[QUOTE=guy]Ummm, they don't play the same amount of minutes though? We don't care about how much they produce per minute, we care about how much they actually produce. Throw in the fact that Lebron has basically played a full season every season of his career and is arguably the most durable player ever, while Wade has had multiple seasons where he's missed a significant amount of games and even that doesn't tell the whole story of his durability because he's played a ton of games handicapped with injuries. Lebron's been more consistent throughout his career, which is what per 36 stats usually hide. I would say out of their 10 seasons in the league, they've been in the same class for 4 of those seasons, which are 05, 06, 09, and 11. 07 is debateable depending on how much you weigh Wade's injury. In 08, 10, 12, 13, Lebron was clearly playing at a higher class then Wade, while Wade has never separated himself from Lebron like that. Don't get me wrong, Wade is absolutely an all-time great player and clearly one of the greatest players ever. But for his career, he's basically a much smaller, significantly less durable, with lesser passing skills version of Lebron. I wouldn't call that being in the same class.[/QUOTE]
Then we're arguing semantics. I contend that for at least the years 2005 - 2011 (excluding 2008), he has been in the LeBron/Kobe class; however, I rank both players above him. But, he is/was definitely in the same strata.
And don't undersell Wade's passing, by far his most underrated skill. He routinely makes passes that, were they made by LeBron, would cause commentators to have verbal orgasms.
[I]But, if you really want to put things in perspective, look at every great moment early in Wade's career and imagine what media reaction would have been if it had been LeBron doing the same.[/I]
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] hits the gamewinner in his first ever playoff game as a rookie!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] hits his second gamewinner in his fifth playoff game as a rookie!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] as a rookie leads the Heat to the brink of Game 7 in the 2nd round against the NBA's #1 seed!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] in his second year, playing alongside a barely mobile Shaquille O'Neal, led the Heat to a commanding position in the conference finals against the defending champs, and only his freak injury caused the Heat to lose in seven games!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] in his third year, shoots 62% for the series against the Pistons in a rematch of last year's conference finals and this time leads the Heat to the Finals!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] drags his team to the title in a historic Finals performance in just his third year!
Do you get it now?
[QUOTE=jrong]Then we're arguing semantics. I contend that for at least the years 2005 - 2011 (excluding 2008), he has been in the LeBron/Kobe class; however, I rank both players above him. But, he is/was definitely in the same strata.
And don't undersell Wade's passing, by far his most underrated skill. He routinely makes passes that, were they made by LeBron, would cause commentators to have verbal orgasms.
[I]But, if you really want to put things in perspective, look at every great moment early in Wade's career and imagine what media reaction would have been if it had been LeBron doing the same.[/I]
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] hits the gamewinner in his first ever playoff game as a rookie!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] hits his second gamewinner in his fifth playoff game as a rookie!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] as a rookie leads the Heat to the brink of Game 7 in the 2nd round against the NBA's #1 seed!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] in his second year, playing alongside a barely mobile Shaquille O'Neal, led the Heat to a commanding position in the conference finals against the defending champs, and only his freak injury caused the Heat to lose in seven games!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] in his third year, shoots 62% against the Pistons in a rematch of last year's conference finals and this time leads the Heat to the Finals!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] drags his team to the title in a historic Finals performance in just his third year!
Do you get it now?[/QUOTE]
This was a great read. :applause:
[QUOTE=jrong]Then we're arguing semantics. I contend that for at least the years 2005 - 2011 (excluding 2008), he has been in the LeBron/Kobe class; however, I rank both players above him. But, he is/was definitely in the same strata.
And don't undersell Wade's passing, by far his most underrated skill. He routinely makes passes that, were they made by LeBron, would cause commentators to have verbal orgasms.
[I]But, if you really want to put things in perspective, look at every great moment early in Wade's career and imagine what media reaction would have been if it had been LeBron doing the same.[/I]
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] hits the gamewinner in his first ever playoff game as a rookie!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] hits his second gamewinner in his fifth playoff game as a rookie!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] as a rookie leads the Heat to the brink of Game 7 in the 2nd round against the NBA's #1 seed!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] in his second year, playing alongside a barely mobile Shaquille O'Neal, led the Heat to a commanding position in the conference finals against the defending champs, and only his freak injury caused the Heat to lose in seven games!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] in his third year, shoots 62% against the Pistons in a rematch of last year's conference finals and this time leads the Heat to the Finals!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] drags his team to the title in a historic Finals performance in just his third year!
Do you get it now?[/QUOTE]
there's a lot of truth to this.
If Lebron in his 3rd year in the League would have dominated the finals like Wade did we WOULD NEVER HEAR THE END OF IT
[QUOTE=jrong]Then we're arguing semantics. I contend that for at least the years 2005 - 2011 (excluding 2008), he has been in the LeBron/Kobe class; however, I rank both players above him. But, he is/was definitely in the same strata.
And don't undersell Wade's passing, by far his most underrated skill. He routinely makes passes that, were they made by LeBron, would cause commentators to have verbal orgasms.
[I]But, if you really want to put things in perspective, look at every great moment early in Wade's career and imagine what media reaction would have been if it had been LeBron doing the same.[/I]
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] hits the gamewinner in his first ever playoff game as a rookie!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] hits his second gamewinner in his fifth playoff game as a rookie!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] as a rookie leads the Heat to the brink of Game 7 in the 2nd round against the NBA's #1 seed!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] in his second year, playing alongside a barely mobile Shaquille O'Neal, led the Heat to a commanding position in the conference finals against the defending champs, and only his freak injury caused the Heat to lose in seven games!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] in his third year, shoots 62% against the Pistons in a rematch of last year's conference finals and this time leads the Heat to the Finals!
[B][I]LEBRON JAMES[/I][/B] drags his team to the title in a historic Finals performance in just his third year!
Do you get it now?[/QUOTE]
You just brought up their first 3 seasons. If we were just talking about those 3 seasons, I'd absolutely agree with you. After 06, it was very debateable who was better between the 2 and who was going to have the better career. But in the 7 seasons since then, Lebron has been clearly in a different class for 4.5 of those seasons (second half of 07, 08, 10, 12, 13). We are talking about almost half their careers one has been significantly better then the other, while in the other seasons they've been at the same level. I would say overall that means one has been at another level. And the fact that part of the reason for that has been Wade has been injured or whatever doesn't change that. And I'm not underselling Wade's passing, but he's still not comparable to Lebron in that regard.
[QUOTE=Whoah10115]That's really not true...I think Wade is remarkably under-appreciated and he was right there with LeBron and much of the time ahead of him, especially in career...up until 2011 especially.
Are you including playoffs or just the regular season?[/QUOTE]
Including playoffs.
[QUOTE=D-Wade316]Including playoffs.[/QUOTE]
Shame Wade got hurt in 2007...he was playing ridiculous. I'd give it to him for 2009 too...LeBron was great for most of the playoffs but Wade did everything he could to carry that team.
[QUOTE=TheMarkMadsen]there's a lot of truth to this.
If Lebron in his 3rd year in the League would have dominated the finals like Wade did we WOULD NEVER HEAR THE END OF IT[/QUOTE]
We would never hear the end of it if he didn't continue to have the consistently high level career he's had.
Put it like this, if it were Wade instead of Lebron that was hyped up from the beginning as potentially a top 3-5 player of all-time, after his first 3 seasons, alot of people would agree that he was still on that path. But after that, most would agree that he's not and eventually would agree that he has no shot of it anymore. If simultaneously, Lebron was the one that came out of nowhere like Wade did, and did the stuff that he did winning 3 MVPs, 1 championship, out of this world statistics, etc. then he'd probably eventually get the same coverage he's been getting by his 3rd or 4th season.
Point being, the media doesn't just cover Lebron significantly more then Wade because of some narrative they are trying to produce. They cover him more cause he's in a different class.
[QUOTE=guy]You just brought up their first 3 seasons. If we were just talking about those 3 seasons, I'd absolutely agree with you. After 06, it was very debateable who was better between the 2 and who was going to have the better career. But in the 7 seasons since then, Lebron has been clearly in a different class for 4.5 of those seasons (second half of 07, 08, 10, 12, 13). We are talking about almost half their careers one has been significantly better then the other, while in the other seasons they've been at the same level. I would say overall that means one has been at another level. And the fact that part of the reason for that has been Wade has been injured or whatever doesn't change that. And I'm not underselling Wade's passing, but he's still not comparable to Lebron in that regard.[/QUOTE]
And how different would mass perception of Wade be today if he had gotten the kind of acclaim LeBron would have gotten for doing what he did in those first three years?
My central thesis or one of them, if and when I ever publish something on the subject, is that Wade suffers from what I term "lagging perception." In other words, because the media and most fans (as a result of the media) have never realized how good he was, they still don't get it.
If LeBron (or Melo) had Wade's resume from 2004 - 2006, they would have been deified, enshrined. But, Wade wasn't supposed to be that guy. And by the time he had deposed Melo from the #2 spot out of the class of 2003, he would still become the forgotten man in the Kobe/Bron comparisons for best player in the league.
Personally, though, I could care less about comparisons to LeBron/Kobe, as long as it is acknowledged that Wade is/was on that general level. If people want to then rank the other two above him-- well, I do too.
What I want to see, when it's all said and done, is Dwyane Wade widely acknowledged as:
1. 3rd best SG ever
2. top 15 or 20 player all-time
I would have a lot more confidence that "they" will eventually realize that he really IS that good if they had EVER realized how good he is.