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I've read this thread:
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168038[/url]
And the classic stories of Jordan punching Kerr (:lol), but other than that, are there any more documented cases of Jordan being a failure as a human being?
His HoF speech wasn't very nice or humble, either.
I should mention, I don't care in the slightest how athletes are off the court, but I'm trying to convince someone that Jordan wasn't a saint, and so far, the evidence above hasn't convinced him.
I don't know if he ever dressed up like a dick but I know who's got evidence that he has a dick, just ask his stans
[QUOTE=Djahjaga]I've read this thread:
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=168038[/url]
And the classic stories of Jordan punching Kerr (:lol), but other than that, are there any more documented cases of Jordan being a failure as a human being?
His HoF speech wasn't very nice or humble, either.
I should mention, I don't care in the slightest how athletes are off the court, but I'm trying to convince someone that Jordan wasn't a saint, and so far, the evidence above hasn't convinced him.[/QUOTE]
"Who was the better defender? Pippen was one of the best and most gifted defenders of all time. But MJ was the better defender. Michael could shut down anyone in the world for a 3 minute span. The best he’s ever seen. (I was pretty shocked by that, but man what does that tell you about MJ, unbelievable.) Jordan was the most ferocious competitor Bach has seen in all his years of basketball. Johnny said physically Jordan and Pippen were about the same as defenders. But when you add in MJ’s ruthlessness and trash talk, that put him ahead of Scottie.
When Johnny was coaching with the Hornets in 1995 they had a good team. Glen Rice, Mourning, Johnson. Series was tied at 2 and Hornets had a chance to win game 5 in Chicago. On the biggest possession of the game, [B]Mugsy had the ball with the Hornets down 1. Jordan backed off of him and told him: “shoot it you f—ing midget.”[/B] Mugsy shot it, didn’t come close. A year later Mugsy actually told Johnny Bach that he believes that single play ruined his career. His shot never recovered.
........................"We're beating a lot of poor teams. So what? We won a lot of games last year, too. Will Horace and Bill still be playing at this level in the playoffs...Can Pip keep it up?"
Quote:
"I hate being out there with those garbagemen. They don't get you the ball."
Quote:
"They've got no idea what it's all about. The white guys, they work hard, but they don't have the talent. And the rest of them? Who knows what to expect? They're not good for much of anything." (Larry Bird?)
Quote:
"I know what's gonna happen. We'll wait until the last minute and then they'll say something like they couldn't get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don't know why I'm surprised every year."
Quote:
"He can't do anything with the ball. Don't give it to him." - Michael yelling at Paxson who passed the ball to Perdue
Quote:
"You ever hear of a guy, six-eleven maybe and two hundred sixty pounds, a guy big and fat like that and he can't get but two rebounds, if that many, running all over the damn court and he gets two rebounds? Big guy like that and he gets one rebound. Can't even stick his ass into people and get more than that...Big, fat, fat guy. One rebound in three games. Power forward. Maybe they should call it powerless forward." - Michael ripping Stacey King a new one
Quote:
"He was scared in there and panicking. He just lost it when Stockton scored." - Michael on B.J. Armstrong's mental fragility
Quote:
I'll let them stand up and take responsibility for themselves."
Quote:
"We have to do some things. We need to make some changes."
Quote:
"...I call them 'the Looney Tunes.' Physically, they were the best. Mentally, they weren't even close."
Quote:
"He's scared. He's got no heart...Nobody told me that. If I had spoken up, he wouldn't have been here."
Quote:
"I know I can recognize what to do, but I'm not sure they can."
Quote:
"It's a hell of a lot easier to make Earl Monroe look good than it is Brad Sellers."
Quote:
"I hope there's a jumpshot in there." - Michael to Stacey King who was walking into the locker room with a box
Quote:
"They don't need a ticket to watch you sitting on the bench. They can go to your house for that." - Michael to Charles Davis who was sorting through his tickets for his family and friends
Quote:
"Give me the fu*king ball." - Michael to Doug Collins who drew up a play for Dave Corzine
Quote:
"I hate when I have to read that in the papers the next day, that I couldn't do something. It wasn't my fault."
Quote:
"You're an idiot. You've screwed up every play we ever ran. You're too stupid to even remember the plays. We ought to get rid of you." - Michael to Horace Grant
Quote:
"If you [pass the ball to Bill Cartwright], you'll never get the ball from me."
Quote:
"We're not winning because of talent. We're just beating bad teams."
Quote:
"Headache tonight, Scottie?" - Michael asks Scottie, while showing him his 2-for-16 line
Quote:
"It's probably a twelve-day. He needs two days to wake up." - Michael on a ten-day contract teammate
Quote:
"Five more years and I'm out of here. I'm marking these days on a calendar, like I'm in jail. I'm tired of being used by this organization, by the league, by the writers, by everyone."
Quote:
"They're not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won't make any deals to make us better. And this Kukoc thing. I hate that. They're spending all their time chasing this guy."
Quote:
"If I were a general manager, we'd be a better team."
Quote:
"Will Vanderbilt. He doesn't deserve to be named after a Big Ten school." - Michael on Will Perdue - AWESOME!
Quote:
"I want to prove the critics wrong...I want to see some serious moves from management, which I really haven't seen that much of yet, and I want to see more serious attitudes from my teammates this year when it comes to the playoffs. In the past, it's been more or less a joking thing, sort of a 'Well, we're here, so let's have a good time.'"..........
Quote:
"I'm sure everything will be fine if we win, but if we start losing, I'm shooting."
Quote:
"I know what I would do if I were coach. I'd determine our strengths and weaknesses and utilize them. And it's pretty clear what our strength is."
Quote:
"Your boy doesn't want to play. I'm tired of bailing his ass out." - Michael yelling at Jim Cleamons about Dennis Hopson
Quote:
"I don't know about trading a 24 year-old guy for a 34 year-old guy." - Michael questioning the Oakley trade
Quote:
"He's causing me too many turnovers." - Michael on Cartwright's inability to catch
Quote:
"Why the hell don't you ever set a pick like that in a game?" - Michael yelling at Perdue after also hitting Perdue upside his head (led to the institution of the private curtain for practices)
(I literally just looked up Michael Jordan mean quotes, so if he ACTUALLY said these things or not is beyond me but it sounds like him haha)
Honestly if I had the first pick in a fantasy draft I'd not pick Jordan partly for that reason. It'd be hard not to,considering hes tied for my favorite player all time....but it's just a quality that I find disgusting and would much rather have someone like Chamberlain, Russell, Kareem and Possibly Magic.
He seemed so genuine and humble in his younger days, seems all the success and fame got to his ego. Sad really. Could never respect a guy like that.
"Evidence"? Is this something that was in need of proving? Was anyone arguing that Jordan wasn't a dick?
I found those funny. Especially the Stacey King one. You had to see him play. And Will Perdue was completely useless.
[QUOTE=jongib369]"Who was the better defender? Pippen was one of the best and most gifted defenders of all time. But MJ was the better defender. Michael could shut down anyone in the world for a 3 minute span. The best he’s ever seen. (I was pretty shocked by that, but man what does that tell you about MJ, unbelievable.) Jordan was the most ferocious competitor Bach has seen in all his years of basketball. Johnny said physically Jordan and Pippen were about the same as defenders. But when you add in MJ’s ruthlessness and trash talk, that put him ahead of Scottie.
When Johnny was coaching with the Hornets in 1995 they had a good team. Glen Rice, Mourning, Johnson. Series was tied at 2 and Hornets had a chance to win game 5 in Chicago. On the biggest possession of the game, [B]Mugsy had the ball with the Hornets down 1. Jordan backed off of him and told him: “shoot it you f—ing midget.”[/B] Mugsy shot it, didn’t come close. A year later Mugsy actually told Johnny Bach that he believes that single play ruined his career. His shot never recovered.
........................"We're beating a lot of poor teams. So what? We won a lot of games last year, too. Will Horace and Bill still be playing at this level in the playoffs...Can Pip keep it up?"
Quote:
"I hate being out there with those garbagemen. They don't get you the ball."
Quote:
"They've got no idea what it's all about. The white guys, they work hard, but they don't have the talent. And the rest of them? Who knows what to expect? They're not good for much of anything." (Larry Bird?)
Quote:
"I know what's gonna happen. We'll wait until the last minute and then they'll say something like they couldn't get a deal done because of the cap or somebody pulled out at the last minute. It happens here all the time. I don't know why I'm surprised every year."
Quote:
"He can't do anything with the ball. Don't give it to him." - Michael yelling at Paxson who passed the ball to Perdue
Quote:
"You ever hear of a guy, six-eleven maybe and two hundred sixty pounds, a guy big and fat like that and he can't get but two rebounds, if that many, running all over the damn court and he gets two rebounds? Big guy like that and he gets one rebound. Can't even stick his ass into people and get more than that...Big, fat, fat guy. One rebound in three games. Power forward. Maybe they should call it powerless forward." - Michael ripping Stacey King a new one
Quote:
"He was scared in there and panicking. He just lost it when Stockton scored." - Michael on B.J. Armstrong's mental fragility
Quote:
I'll let them stand up and take responsibility for themselves."
Quote:
"We have to do some things. We need to make some changes."
Quote:
"...I call them 'the Looney Tunes.' Physically, they were the best. Mentally, they weren't even close."
Quote:
"He's scared. He's got no heart...Nobody told me that. If I had spoken up, he wouldn't have been here."
Quote:
"I know I can recognize what to do, but I'm not sure they can."
Quote:
"It's a hell of a lot easier to make Earl Monroe look good than it is Brad Sellers."
Quote:
"I hope there's a jumpshot in there." - Michael to Stacey King who was walking into the locker room with a box
Quote:
"They don't need a ticket to watch you sitting on the bench. They can go to your house for that." - Michael to Charles Davis who was sorting through his tickets for his family and friends
Quote:
"Give me the fu*king ball." - Michael to Doug Collins who drew up a play for Dave Corzine
Quote:
"I hate when I have to read that in the papers the next day, that I couldn't do something. It wasn't my fault."
Quote:
"You're an idiot. You've screwed up every play we ever ran. You're too stupid to even remember the plays. We ought to get rid of you." - Michael to Horace Grant
Quote:
"If you [pass the ball to Bill Cartwright], you'll never get the ball from me."
Quote:
"We're not winning because of talent. We're just beating bad teams."
Quote:
"Headache tonight, Scottie?" - Michael asks Scottie, while showing him his 2-for-16 line
Quote:
"It's probably a twelve-day. He needs two days to wake up." - Michael on a ten-day contract teammate
Quote:
"Five more years and I'm out of here. I'm marking these days on a calendar, like I'm in jail. I'm tired of being used by this organization, by the league, by the writers, by everyone."
Quote:
"They're not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets, which they can do because of me. They won't make any deals to make us better. And this Kukoc thing. I hate that. They're spending all their time chasing this guy."
Quote:
"If I were a general manager, we'd be a better team."
Quote:
"Will Vanderbilt. He doesn't deserve to be named after a Big Ten school." - Michael on Will Perdue - AWESOME!
Quote:
"I want to prove the critics wrong...I want to see some serious moves from management, which I really haven't seen that much of yet, and I want to see more serious attitudes from my teammates this year when it comes to the playoffs. In the past, it's been more or less a joking thing, sort of a 'Well, we're here, so let's have a good time.'"..........
Quote:
"I'm sure everything will be fine if we win, but if we start losing, I'm shooting."
Quote:
"I know what I would do if I were coach. I'd determine our strengths and weaknesses and utilize them. And it's pretty clear what our strength is."
Quote:
"Your boy doesn't want to play. I'm tired of bailing his ass out." - Michael yelling at Jim Cleamons about Dennis Hopson
Quote:
"I don't know about trading a 24 year-old guy for a 34 year-old guy." - Michael questioning the Oakley trade
Quote:
"He's causing me too many turnovers." - Michael on Cartwright's inability to catch
Quote:
"Why the hell don't you ever set a pick like that in a game?" - Michael yelling at Perdue after also hitting Perdue upside his head (led to the institution of the private curtain for practices)
Honestly if I had the first pick in a fantasy draft I'd not pick Jordan partly for that reason. It'd be hard not to,considering hes tied for my favorite player all time....but it's just a quality that I find disgusting and would much rather have someone like [B]Chamberlain, Russell, Kareem [/B]and Possibly Magic.[/QUOTE]
You'd much rather have someone like Chamberlain who was said to be very selfish and was accused of doing the same things Jordan did? The same guy who was calling out Jerry West? You'd rather have Russell who was notoriously nasty with many people? You'd rather have Kareem who was supposedly very standoffish and arrogant as well? Kareem, who couldn't even get along with Magic Johnson. Most of those guys are cocky to the point of being arrogant *****, but it has become popular to point out Jordan's shortcomings.
[QUOTE][B]"They're not interested in winning. They just want to sell tickets,[/B] which they can do because of me. They won't make any deals to make us better. And this Kukoc thing. I hate that. They're spending all their time chasing this guy."[/QUOTE]They still operate this way.
Lol, who gives a fck? He was a true competitor who took basketball very serious.
[QUOTE=AngelEyes]You'd much rather have someone like Chamberlain who was said to be very selfish and was accused of doing the same things Jordan did? The same guy who was calling out Jerry West? You'd rather have Russell who was notoriously nasty with many people? You'd rather have Kareem who was supposedly very standoffish and arrogant as well? Kareem, who couldn't even get along with Magic Johnson. Most of those guys are cocky to the point of being arrogant *****, but it has become popular to point out Jordan's shortcomings.[/QUOTE]
If I was starting a team I'd rather have people who are stern but don't lose their shit and ****ing punch a teammate. And, I value the Center and Point guard position more than I do any other so I think choosing a GOAT center would be the wiser choice. Just my opinion.
[QUOTE=jongib369]If I was starting a team I'd rather have people who are stern but don't lose their shit and ****ing punch a teammate. And, I value the Center and Point guard position more than I do any other so I think choosing a GOAT center would be the wiser choice. Just my opinion.[/QUOTE]
I'm not defending Jordan punching a teammate, which is indefensible but Kareem lost his shit in a game and punched an opposing player in the face. It also cost his team because he ended up breaking his hand and missing games. People can bring up the fact that Kareem put up with a lot of punishment and lost his cool but Jordan dealt with similar punishment, most obvious being the Pistons. The Pistons were consistently cheapshoting Jordan and he never lost his cool to that extent.
I remember reading some magazine awhile ago, maybe it was ESPN the magazine, during the Michael Jordan birthday week, there was a piece in a magazine where it talked about MJ being a prick to Bill Cartwright. At one point Cartwright threaten to break Jordan's legs. Or another incident happened where Will Perdue, yes that Will Perdue, set a hard screen on Jordan. Jordan was so pissed he punched Will Perdue in the face! And who can ever forget his epic rant against Kwame Brown years ago in a practice setting. Let's put it this way, Jordan questioned Kwame's manhood. Now remember Kwame was a young kid playing along side the GOAT. The kid never recovered. Was it Jordan's comments that did Kwame in? We will never know. But it had to hurt this young man's pride deeply.
I aint hating on Jordan he is the GOAT. But the dude was a prick back in the day.
I would have kicked his ass if I was Will Perdue.
"Will Vanderbilt. He doesn't deserve to be named after a Big Ten school." - Michael on Will Perdue
:oldlol: Jordan Pryor
Most NBA superstars can be labelled jerks.
Larry Bird has a daughter he refused to acknowledge and there are stories of him being a very cold person.
Magic Johnson slept with half the Los Angeles area and tried to get a coach fired.
Isiah Thomas ... needs no introduction to being an ass.
LeBron James tattooed "Chosen One" on his body before winning a damn thing. And then embarrassed Cleveland with his TV special.
Shaq could be a royal a-hole (lol) and had a huge jealous streak.
Kobe was an aloof walking hero complex.
The thing I do respect about MJ is his GAME did all his talking. He didn't talk himself up nor would he ever get a tattoo claiming he was the greatest or whatever.
Whatever hype he had from commercials -- he lived up to the hype and often times exceeded it. He wasn't a show off or a front runner. He put in the hard work to back up everything he did.
Sure he wasn't a teddy bear either, yes he talked trash on the court, yes he was hard on his teammates ... but I don't think he'd have six championships and be considered the GOAT if he didn't have that.
If you want a "nice guy" NBA superstar, go cheer for Chris Bosh.
[QUOTE=Soundwave]Most NBA superstars can be labelled jerks.
Larry Bird has a daughter he refused to acknowledge and there are stories of him being a very cold person.
Magic Johnson slept with half the Los Angeles area.
Isiah Thomas ... needs no introduction to being an ass.
LeBron James tattooed "Chosen One" on his body before winning a damn thing. And then embarrassed Cleveland with his TV special.
Shaq could be a royal a-hole (lol) and had a huge jealous streak.
Kobe was an aloof walking hero complex.
The thing I do respect about MJ is his GAME did all his talking. He didn't talk himself up nor would he ever get a tattoo claiming he was the greatest or whatever.
Whatever hype he had from commercials -- he lived up to the hype and often times exceeded it. He wasn't a show off or a front runner.
Sure he wasn't a teddy bear either, yes he talked trash on the court, yes he was hard on his teammates ... but I don't think he'd have six championships and be considered the GOAT if he didn't have that.[/QUOTE]
Excellent post
:violin:
[IMG]http://simg.sportsbybrooks.com/b/8/b8e91b47f7fe8a1490c3d62ab65ec634_jordaninflatable01.png[/IMG]
[IMG]http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/2009/07/custom_1248209911624_penisonparade.jpg[/IMG]
I was in a bar after a Bobcats game in Charlotte the night he got engaged to his finace. He was close with the owner of a fairly popular bar and they brought everyone at the bar a Cuban Partagas cigar.
Pretty classy. I will never forget it.
Lol. ^Are these pics real?
[QUOTE=CLTHornets4eva]I was in a bar after a Bobcats game in Charlotte the night he got engaged to his finace. He was close with the owner of a fairly popular bar and they brought everyone at the bar a [B]Cuban Partagas cigar[/B].
Pretty classy. I will never forget it.[/QUOTE]
they're Dominican. They USED to be Cuban.
[QUOTE=NumberSix]Lol. ^Are these pics real?[/QUOTE]
Yea. Here's the vid. :lol
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JgECM1WLxzM[/url]
I have to say that though Jordan was an a-hole, 6 rings in 8 years don't lie. If he was an awful teammate, the Bulls wouldn't have been able to get over the hump. Jordan might not be a saint, but who is, really?
All I know is that his teammates may have hated his personality, but I'm 100% sure they loved winning with him. And truly, what else matters on the basketball court more than winning? I can't name a single thing...
Unless of course we're talking about players who love money over rings.
Some people confuse goofing around talking trash to teammates, and opponents as signs of being a horrible human being.
As far as punching Kerr, that happened during a heated situation, so I also wouldn't take that as a sign that a person is definitely a horrible human being. (Yet if those same people threw a punch at someone, they wouldn't consider themselves a bad person, they would just say they got really mad at the moment.)
So I would have to look at parts that show he's not a dick, like calling Kerr and apologizing to him. Or crying when Red Kerr died. That shows actual human emotions.
So from that I can at least say he's not a criminal type of guy.
If theres one person that I am ok with being a d!ck, it is Jordan. It made him who he is. Lots of highlights and a legend. Dont hate, appreciate, you could even learn something from his ruthless douchery in life.
[QUOTE=Glide2keva]They still operate this way.[/QUOTE]
That whole Kukoc thing was crazy. They were running the risk of losing Pippen by not giving him a payrise because they needed to keep capspace so they could sign Kukoc. Krause was chasing Kukoc so hard that he was pissing off the players he did have. Same with John Paxson. Jordan stood up for him too when they messed around with him due to the whole Kukoc thing, too.
[QUOTE=Metroid]Some people confuse goofing around talking trash to teammates, and opponents as signs of being a horrible human being.
As far as punching Kerr, that happened during a heated situation, so I also wouldn't take that as a sign that a person is definitely a horrible human being. (Yet if those same people threw a punch at someone, they wouldn't consider themselves a bad person, they would just say they got really mad at the moment.)
So I would have to look at parts that show he's not a dick, like calling Kerr and apologizing to him. Or crying when Red Kerr died. That shows actual human emotions.
So from that I can at least say he's not a criminal type of guy.[/QUOTE]
I remember Kerr talking about that and how he said if he didn't retaliate against Jordan (which he attempted to do), Jordan would have treated him like a bitch for the rest of the time he was on the team. At least he did get an apology, unlike Will Purdue.
u dont get to be the GOAT without stepping on a few toes.
I read the Jordan at 50 piece in ESPN the Mag and he seems to understand that he has an out of control ego and can be a giant asshole. Its just part of who he is but it isn't the only part.
Oh yea, since we all know what stand up people all hall of fame professional athletes can be.
Thanks for the replies. :cheers:
Like I said, I have no problem with however any player chooses to act off the court. And I know most superstars have egos and are genuine assholes (although, I don't think Bird and Magic are).
I was trying to convince someone (my brother) of this and he wouldn't take any of those quotes or stories of Jordan as evidence he was a dick to at least his teammates.
This all came up, btw, because my brother had an issue with Lebron "celebrating" in the last two Heat wins after crucial moments. He thinks Lebron's a dick, but he loves Jordan -- thinks of him like some kind of saint. So, I was just pointing out the inconsistency.
lol @ stickwright threatening to break michael's legs. he couldn't hack his way out of a wet paper bag. i remember him pushing barkley in a game and he ended up knocking HIMSELF back lol.
Jordan is a f*ckin ass as person as far as I have ever seen...
not a person I would like to be around... Totally separate from the fact that he is the goat on the court (or maybe directly because of that).
not a good human being.. but an awesome bball palyer
[QUOTE=Rasheed1]Jordan is a f*ckin ass as person as far as I have ever seen...
not a person I would like to be around... Totally separate from the fact that he is the goat on the court (or maybe directly because of that).
not a good human being.. but an awesome bball palyer[/QUOTE]
Damn. Do you know Jordan personally? :confusedshrug:
[QUOTE=AngelEyes]You'd rather have Russell who was notoriously nasty with many people?[/QUOTE]
None of whom were his teammates. Russell cared about his team, and his team winning. If you weren't on the team, then you were irrelevant to the main objective of winning, so he didn't care.
I don't know how many (if any) people here have actually met the man and spoken with him, but I have, and he was cordial to me, so I can only speak from my own experience. Though I am aware that some people have had bad experiences with him, though that was earlier than my meeting with him. I also don't act the way some (most?) people do should they happen to be in the presence of notable people, so that may have also had something to do with my not having an unpleasant experience.
[QUOTE=Scholar]I have to say that though Jordan was an a-hole, 6 rings in 8 years don't lie. If he was an awful teammate, the Bulls wouldn't have been able to get over the hump. Jordan might not be a saint, but who is, really?[/QUOTE]
I've always wondered why a-hole and "saint" are often presented as the only two possible options. False dichotomy.
[QUOTE=Djahjaga]Thanks for the replies. :cheers:
Like I said, I have no problem with however any player chooses to act off the court. And I know most superstars have egos and are genuine assholes (although, I don't think Bird and Magic are).
I was trying to convince someone (my brother) of this and he wouldn't take any of those quotes or stories of Jordan as evidence he was a dick to at least his teammates.[/QUOTE]
It's actually pointless to attempt to "convince" anyone of anything. People will believe what they wish to believe, and there's absolutely nothing you could show him that would change his mind. It's a wasted effort.
Jordan was just a bully because he was so good. Cartwright stood up to him and never get bothered again after that. Classic bully behavior.
Lets be honest, who on here has never said or thought about wanting to punch a fellow work college? I consider myself a nice guy, but you can not choose who your teammates are in pro sports so your going to get good and bad working relationships just like regular folk in the workforce.
The OP is a bitch ass c[b]o[/b]cksucking f[b]a[/b]ggot.
No, seriously though, it's been documented many times before that Jordan wasn't too nice to team mates whom he felt weren't giving their all. So he wanted to win:confusedshrug: Not like he was out there committing felonies and shit.
Much ado about nothing.
Can you imagine if Royce White was drafted to the Bulls as a rookie when Jordan was there? I bet Jordan would've broken White's spirit, mind, and thumbs so that he could never post on Twitter ever again.
Winning was all mattered to him.. How he treated people didn't matter to him at all.