Lebron should have that one too. It doesn't get said enough
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Lebron should have that one too. It doesn't get said enough
Nastradamus was a travesty.
Post all star break 2011 Rose >> LeBron
this gets brought up a lot, some people say Dwight shoulda won too.
I still give it to rose.
[QUOTE=Inferno]Nastradamus was a travesty.[/QUOTE]
:applause:
I'm really getting tired of this anti-Rose nonsense.
If the MVP award was the best player of the year award, then sure, give it to LeBron. But over the past 20 or so years, there have been numerous times when the best player in the world has NOT won the MVP (Jordan, Shaq, Kobe etc).
So, if we're applying the past, Rose was the MVP in 2011. LeBron was busy playing co-alpha with Wade, and they still ended up with less than 60 wins in an underwhelming regular season.
Averaged 25 ppg / 8 apg for a slow, low scoring 62-win team that was missing key players for parts of the season... Rose had a Usage-% second to only Kobe Bryant that season, and almost all his in-game production went up in Wins (vs Losses)...MVP was definitely well deserved.
No it wasn't.
In my opinion, MVP should be given to the best player on a top 4 seed team (either conference), who has played at least 66 games that season. That sound good or bad?
every few years, there will be an MVP like Rose. just like how Steve Nash won it over Shaq and how Karl Malone won it over MJ. i just accept that every few years there will be a bad choice for MVP and just accept it.
In the end it doesnt even affect Lebron that much. He will still get like at least 6 MVPs total and be closer to GOAT status. one more MVP wont make his case much more worthy than it already is.
Rose= WMOT worst mvp of all time
Shaq should have won the MVP over Nash, but Nash was a much better MVP choice than Rose.
Shut the **** up. Why are all Miami fans obsessed with hating on D-Rose? I sense some fear there, *******.
There are always years when the MVP isn't rewarded to someone based purely on level of play. For one reason or another, there just seem to be years where there's more of a fixation on a good 'story' for the MVP award. And D Rose's story was a pretty darn good one.
Based purely on level of play, it should've been Dwight or LeBron that year.
It was between Dwight or Rose.
[QUOTE=K Xerxes]I'm really getting tired of this anti-Rose nonsense.
If the MVP award was the best player of the year award, then sure, give it to LeBron. But over the past 20 or so years, there have been numerous times when the best player in the world has NOT won the MVP (Jordan, Shaq, Kobe etc).
So, if we're applying the past, Rose was the MVP in 2011. LeBron was busy playing co-alpha with Wade, and they still ended up with less than 60 wins in an underwhelming regular season.[/QUOTE]
Exactly.
The same reason why Iverson's 2001 MVP is totally justifiable, even if he wasn't the "best player" in the league. And no one really claims he was or Rose for that matter.
Who do you give it to that season? LeBron and Wade's numbers were the EXACT same. Even if LeBron was the best player he didn't separate his play and production enough from his own teammate to warrant serious contention. Wade was still playing his peak like basketball. And given the way the team was formed, he came across as very cowardly that year. He's forgiven thereafter for having to carry such a heavy burden in 2012, and 2013. But the fact still remains he wasn't unquestionably the Heat's best player in 2011. Even if retrospect of consistency tells us he probably was.
Same reason Shaq didn't deserve MVP in 2001. You don't get the award when there is a co-alpha on your team, like Kobe was putting up an absurd 29/5/5 and essentially being the team's closer late in games. Iverson was a 5'11 lone gunner and playmaker on a team full of defensive role players. His season in CONTEXT is much more impressive. His load, and pressure was much heavier.
Give it to Dwight? Why? He had more offensive weapons than Rose on his team, and he wasn't NEAR as clutch as Rose was all season. Derrick single handedly in certain games turned losses into wins with 4th quarter take overs and come backs on his shoulders.
Derrick Rose was a 6' PG having to play BOTH guard spots due to Keith Bogans spot up shooting, scoring incompetence. He was the lone scorer and play maker on a team that ended up having the best record in the league and totally surpassed expectations. Out performing a team that brought together three franchises pieces in the off season. Context tells me it's much more impressive than what LeBron could've done to win MVP that year. Inconsistent Carlos Boozer, whose stats declined significantly each month that year was billed as his second best player, in a desparate 2010 free agency signing?
:facepalm
Stay salty LeBron stans. Your boy DID NOT deserve MVP in 2011. The only one who earned it that year through guts, determination, and will was Derrick Rose. Jimmies are still rustled, sand still firmly in your camel toes. Get over it. If LeBron is clearly the better player (which he is) then take solace in that and stop being so insecure.
Media always gets tired of giving the MVP trophy to the same guy. If they didn't, Jordan would have won every year in the 90s
[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]Exactly.
The same reason why Iverson's 2001 MVP is totally justifiable, even if he wasn't the "best player" in the league. And no one really claims he was or Rose for that matter.
Who do you give it to that season? LeBron and Wade's numbers were the EXACT same. Even if LeBron was the best player he didn't separate his play and production enough from his own teammate to warrant serious contention. Wade was still playing his peak like basketball. And given the way the team was formed, he came across as very cowardly that year. He's forgiven thereafter for having to carry such a heavy burden in 2012, and 2013. But the fact still remains he wasn't unquestionably the Heat's best player in 2011. Even if retrospect of consistency tells us he probably was.
Same reason Shaq didn't deserve MVP in 2001. You don't get the award when there is a co-alpha on your team, like Kobe was putting up an absurd 29/5/5 and essentially being the team's closer late in games. Iverson was a 5'11 lone gunner and playmaker on a team full of defensive role players. His season in CONTEXT is much more impressive. His load, and pressure was much heavier.
Give it to Dwight? Why? He had more offensive weapons than Rose on his team, and he wasn't NEAR as clutch as Rose was all season. Derrick single handedly in certain games turned losses into wins with 4th quarter take overs and come backs on his shoulders.
Derrick Rose was a 6' PG having to play BOTH guard spots due to Keith Bogans spot up shooting, scoring incompetence. He was the lone scorer and play maker on a team that ended up having the best record in the league and totally surpassed expectations. Out performing a team that brought together three franchises pieces in the off season. Context tells me it's much more impressive than what LeBron could've done to win MVP that year. Inconsistent Carlos Boozer, whose stats declined significantly each month that year was billed as his second best player, in a desparate 2010 free agency signing?
:facepalm
Stay salty LeBron stans. Your boy DID NOT deserve MVP in 2011. The only one who earned it that year through guts, determination, and will was Derrick Rose. Jimmies are still rustled, sand still firmly in your camel toes. Get over it. If LeBron is clearly the better player (which he is) then take solace in that and stop being so insecure.[/QUOTE]
On Dwight: He might have had the offensive weapons that fit, but he didn't have the defense Rose had.
LeBron didn't deserve it either. Dwight probably had the best case.
Dwight Howard should have won it imo.
[QUOTE=Jameerthefear]On Dwight: He might have had the offensive weapons that fit, but he didn't have the defense Rose had.[/QUOTE]
They had the EXACT same pieces that allowed the Magic to be ranked the number 1 defense in 2009, though?
Dwight brings the most impact on defense, he's a big man, that's his side of the ball to dominate.
Rose brings the most impact on offense, he's a combo guard, that's his side of the ball to dominate. And he was the only reason their offense was respectable.
What's the difference?
Rose produced more wins, and lead his team further in the playoffs. Thus the MVP. Dwight's a clown, he wasn't the MVP of 2011. Rose even out performed him in their head to head matchups.
Rose played THE BEST against the top ranked teams in 2011. Stay salty, bro. No one deserved it more than Derrick that season. No questions asked.
Rose wasn't even the MVP of his own team, let alone the league.
[IMG]http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/dd/Joakim_Noah_3.jpg/220px-Joakim_Noah_3.jpg[/IMG]
If LeBron doesn't win it, it should have been Dirk. Dwights team was like a 5th seed. Meanwhile Dirks team was a championship contender(they ended up winning it all).
Dallas was 2-7 ([B].222[/B]) without Dirk, 1-3 ([B].250[/B]) with a getting-into-shape Dirk, and 54-15 ([B].783[/B]) with a healthy Dirk. That record with him healthy would've been good for BEST in the NBA. To educated basketall fans, Dallas playoff dominance wasn't THAT big of a surprise.
the lebron fanboys despise rose for this :oldlol:
if dwight won it, they would hate him too :roll:
talk about living through someone else. im pretty sure lebron said whether he wins that ring or not, you'll still have the same problems you started with in the morning. he said that to his haters, but it applies to his stans too :lol
[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]They had the EXACT same pieces that allowed the Magic to be ranked the number 1 defense in 2009, though?
Dwight brings the most impact on defense, he's a big man, that's his side of the ball to dominate.
Rose brings the most impact on offense, he's a combo guard, that's his side of the ball to dominate. And he was the only reason their offense was respectable.
What's the difference?
Rose produced more wins, and lead his team further in the playoffs. Thus the MVP. Dwight's a clown, he wasn't the MVP of 2011. Rose even out performed him in their head to head matchups.
Rose played THE BEST against the top ranked teams in 2011. Stay salty, bro. No one deserved it more than Derrick that season. No questions asked.[/QUOTE]
I'm not salty at all. I just think that Dwight's impact on both sides of the ball >>> D-Rose's offense. MVP is a regular season award and h2h matchup don't really matter much because they play such different positions.
Really? 2011 Lebron is the one MVP snub you're going to pick out? The year the all-time borderline-corrupt superteam was formed and basically stunk up the place, and then didn't win a title that year to boot - with Jason Terry outperforming Lebron in the Finals? That's the one that's a travesty?
[QUOTE=TonyMontana]Rose wasn't even the MVP of his own team, let alone the league. [/QUOTE]
Noah missed 34 games that season and the Bulls ended up 62-20, you troll.
[QUOTE=K Xerxes]Noah missed 34 games that season and the Bulls ended up 62-20, you troll.[/QUOTE]
Seriously. Keep posting so you can school these clowns. Noah for MVP? LMAO ... missed 34 games, that's essentially half the season.
RG and his now never ending troll agenda against guards or little men who bring MAJOR impact to teams.
Rose's two next best players, Noah missed 34 games ... half the season and newly acquired Boozer missed 20 some odd games, a quarter of the season and severely underperformed even when on the floor.
Rose averaged BETTER numbers than LeBron against the top ten teams in the league that season, too. Clearly RG is bitter.
We don't "hate" Rose. We just recognize what a joke it is that he was gifted an MVP he had absolutely no case for. He should have been 6th in the MVP voting at best. LeBron, Dwight, Dirk, Durant, Kobe all had a better season than Rose.
Rose winning in 2011 is the equivalent of if Tim Hardaway would have won in 1999. Good player. #1 seed team, but really doesn't have any case for MVP of the league.
[QUOTE=K Xerxes]Noah missed 34 games that season and the Bulls ended up 62-20, you troll.[/QUOTE]
I was speaking about these Bulls teams in general.
I would much rather play a Bulls team without Noah than a Bulls team without Rose.
This year Nate Robinson was doing pretty much the same role Rose was doing to a certain extent. Not as good, but doing what was needed in terms of creating.
Chicago still took Miami just as far as they did with a healthy Rose(and the rest of their team being healthy as well.) as they did to a Nate Robinson and injury plauged Bulls team(5 games again).
Roses actual impact is incredibly overrated.
[QUOTE=NumberSix]We don't "hate" Rose. We just recognize what a joke it is that he was gifted an MVP he had absolutely no case for. He should have been 6th in the MVP voting at best. LeBron, Dwight, Dirk, Durant, Kobe all had a better season than Rose.
Rose winning in 2011 is the equivalent of if Tim Hardaway would have won in 1999. Good player. #1 seed team, but really doesn't have any case for MVP of the league.[/QUOTE]
Wade?
[QUOTE=LosScandalous]Post all star break 2011 Rose >> LeBron
this gets brought up a lot, some people say Dwight shoulda won too.
I still give it to rose.[/QUOTE]
Rose: 25/3/7/1/1 on 44/30/88
Lebron: 28/8/6/1/1 on 56/30/75
Did the Bulls >>> the Heat in the regular season? Absolutely. But, at no point in their careers did Rose even come close to owning Lebron or even being better than him.
Tom Thibodeau's defensive schemes and overplaying of starters during the regular season were the MVP that season, not Rose's overrated chucking.
let it go. he won already and it wasn't that bad of a decision.
Rose earned it
[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]Seriously. Keep posting so you can school these clowns. Noah for MVP? LMAO ... missed 34 games, that's essentially half the season.
RG and his now never ending troll agenda against guards or little men who bring MAJOR impact to teams.
Rose's two next best players, Noah missed 34 games ... half the season and newly acquired Boozer missed 20 some odd games, a quarter of the season and severely underperformed even when on the floor.
Rose averaged BETTER numbers than LeBron against the top ten teams in the league that season, too. Clearly RG is bitter.[/QUOTE]
This RG dude is absolutely awful. His anti-Bulls agenda is disgraceful. :facepalm
[QUOTE=TonyMontana]I was speaking about these Bulls teams in general.
I would much rather play a Bulls team without Noah than a Bulls team without Rose.
This year Nate Robinson was doing pretty much the same role Rose was doing to a certain extent. Not as good, but doing what was needed in terms of creating.
Chicago still took Miami just as far as they did with a healthy Rose(and the rest of their team being healthy as well.) as they did to a Nate Robinson and injury plauged Bulls team(5 games again).
Roses actual impact is incredibly overrated.[/QUOTE]
Look, troll, if you actually watched any of the Bulls games or know anything about them, you'd know that that is bullshit.
In the 11-12 season, the Bulls went 50-16.
With Rose, they went 32-7 (82% and on course for 67-15 in a full 82 season).
Without Rose, they went 18-9 (67% and on course for 55-27 in a full 82 season). Incidentally, they went 45-37 in the 12-13 without Rose playing a single game, although they were injury stricken for a lot of that year (Noah, Deng etc missed games) which explains the decrease from expected record (somewhere around 55-27) to their actual record.
Last 3 seasons (i.e. start of Rose's MVP year):
Record with Rose: 94-26 (78%)
Record without Rose: 63-47 (57%)
In the playoffs:
2011: With an injured Rose on grade 2 sprained ankle: ECF (all games were close except the first game at Chicago where they blew out Miami).
2012: With Rose for first game: first round only (blew out Philly first game, lose 4 out of the next 5)
2013: Without Rose: ECSF (sneak past Brooklyn, beaten by Miami in 5 games)
[QUOTE=aj1987]Rose: 25/3/7/1/1 on 44/30/88
Lebron: 28/8/6/1/1 on 56/30/75
Did the Bulls >>> the Heat in the regular season? Absolutely. But, at no point in their careers did Rose even come close to owning Lebron or even being better than him.[/QUOTE]
against the top 8 teams in the nba that season
rose 28 points 7 assist, bulls winning record + bulls winning all 12 of there last games
lebron 26 points 7 assist, heat losing record + heat losing most of there last 9 games.
no ones gives a shit if u can score 28 points against the bucks.
Suck on these.
[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8t_bSn2bh9Q[/url]
[QUOTE=K Xerxes]This RG dude is absolutely awful. His anti-Bulls agenda is disgraceful. :facepalm
Look, troll, if you actually watched any of the Bulls games or know anything about them, you'd know that that is bullshit.
In the 11-12 season, the Bulls went 50-16.
With Rose, they went 32-7 (82% and on course for 67-15 in a full 82 season).
Without Rose, they went 18-9 (67% and on course for 55-27 in a full 82 season). Incidentally, they went 45-37 in the 12-13 without Rose playing a single game, although they were injury stricken for a lot of that year (Noah, Deng etc missed games) which explains the decrease from expected record (somewhere around 55-27) to their actual record.
Last 3 seasons (i.e. start of Rose's MVP year):
Record with Rose: 94-26 (78%)
Record without Rose: 63-47 (57%)
In the playoffs:
2011: With an injured Rose on grade 2 sprained ankle: ECF (all games were close except the first game at Chicago where they blew out Miami).
2012: With Rose for first game: first round only (blew out Philly first game, lose 4 out of the next 5)
2013: Without Rose: ECSF (sneak past Brooklyn, beaten by Miami in 5 games)[/QUOTE]
I'm not RG and I assure you there is no "anti Bulls" agenda. I am saying that Noah is a more valuable player to that team than Rose. If you were an actual Bulls fan that wouldn't be so offensive and we could argue it, but you are clearly just a Rose/Jordan stan.
Rose is a good regular season player. He will be able to pad his stats and secure additional wins for the team against the irrelevant ball clubs.
But in the playoffs when your playing real defenses, Noah is the teams most important player, especially if you want to beat Miami. Without him there is no chance of that happening.
Look at how Rose's FG% shrank when he had to play the Heat in 2011. His penetration game wasn't working when he had to go around guys like LeBron, Wade, and Chalmers. A 6'2 guard can only effect the game so much, and against bigger and competitive athletes you are not going to get clean looks like you do in the regular season vs the Sacramento Kings.
If you want to beat Miami it has to happen in the paint because the team is weak there. Noah clowns Bosh every time these teams play eachother and that has to be exploited. Your not beating Miami on the perimeter, guys like Butler and Deng are good to slow LeBron down , but that's all your going to do with that matchup.
Your subpar perimeter players just cannot match up with the greatness that is known as LeBron James. You better make sure your bigs dominate their matchup to counteract the damage or your going to be going home early.
Noah prevents easy baskets an GETS easy baskets. Elite rim defender and rebounder. Smart offensive player that helps the teams in ways other than ball domination.
It was definitely the best thing for Lebron that Rose won that year. His last two historic years would have not been sweeps of MVP's that's for sure if Lebron had won that year.
Rose's MVP stands out more when you realize how Lebron, Wade, Kobe and Dwight all had trouble with new teams that were ultra talented. Rose was the one that really mastered that new team situation and he had big injuries, way more responsibility, new coach, best record, dominated the elite after Dec. 8th and his second and third best players underperformed and missed a lot of games.
Lebron and Wade were simply not special against the elite, had two loosing streaks because of confusion. Amazingly didn't have the best record. They couldn't meddle out who was the leader and lost a lot of big games because of it. They took alternate games to assert themselves.
Dwight Howard was simply not a superstar the last two months. I criticized him for not being a leader and being a spectator as his team crumbled.
Derrick Rose had an uncommon domination of PG's in h2h comp.
Team had an uncommon domination of other elite teams
Rose won the most games in the 4th quarter.
Only player top ten ppg and apg.
Team was the best team and kept getting better despite injuries.
Day in and day out was the only player that played hard every game that season.
Lebron was the only real comp but he underachieved with his team.
[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]against the top 8 teams in the nba that season
rose 28 points 7 assist, bulls winning record + bulls winning all 12 of there last games
lebron 26 points 7 assist, heat losing record + heat losing most of there last 9 games.
no ones gives a shit if u can score 28 points against the bucks.[/QUOTE]
And when it mattered, Lebron destroyed Rose. 4-1. Nobody gives a shit if you score in the RS, if you can't score for shit in the playoffs.
Lebron: 26/8/7/2/2 on 45/39/86
Rose: 23/4/7/1 on 35/24/82
7% in the 4th quarters.
And no. The last 13 games, they went 11-2 (lost against the Bucks and Cavs).
[QUOTE=aj1987]And when it mattered, Lebron destroyed Rose. 4-1. Nobody gives a shit if you score in the RS, if you can't score for shit in the playoffs.
Lebron: 26/8/7/2/2 on 45/39/86
Rose: 23/4/7/1 on 35/24/82
7% in the 4th quarters.
And no. The last 13 games, they went 11-2 (lost against the Bucks and Cavs).[/QUOTE]
this thread is about his mvp which is decided in the regular season :facepalm comprehension is not a skill you have.
and wrong, im talking about the last games against the top 8 teams. like i said no one gives a shit if you can beat scrub teams, its what you do against elite teams.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]It was definitely the best thing for Lebron that Rose won that year. His last two historic years would have not been sweeps of MVP's that's for sure if Lebron had won that year.
Rose's MVP stands out more when you realize how Lebron, Wade, Kobe and Dwight all had trouble with new teams that were ultra talented. Rose was the one that really mastered that new team situation and he had big injuries, way more responsibility, new coach, best record, dominated the elite after Dec. 8th and his second and third best players underperformed and missed a lot of games.
Lebron and Wade were simply not special against the elite, had two loosing streaks because of confusion. Amazingly didn't have the best record. They couldn't meddle out who was the leader and lost a lot of big games because of it. They took alternate games to assert themselves.
Dwight Howard was simply not a superstar the last two months. I criticized him for not being a leader and being a spectator as his team crumbled.
Derrick Rose had an uncommon domination of PG's in h2h comp.
Team had an uncommon domination of other elite teams
Rose won the most games in the 4th quarter.
Only player top ten ppg and apg.
Team was the best team and kept getting better despite injuries.
Day in and day out was the only player that played hard every game that season.
Lebron was the only real comp but he underachieved with his team.[/QUOTE]
:biggums:
shit that makes your soul burn slow ...