The difference between LeBron and Jordan..straight to the facts and past the Nikecoms

Here is the difference between LeBron and Jordan.

When Jordans Bulls lack interior defenders and rebounders, they become pretenders(As evidenced by Shaq/Horace shitting on them in 1995 when they had no great interior defenders/rebounders).

When LeBrons Heat lack interior defenders and rebounders, LeBron gets his ass in the post and starts getting 10+ boards and guarding David Wests. Because of LeBrons superior physical abilities he is more versatile and able to effect the game in more ways.

As it stands now LeBron is the only perimeter superstar in NBA History to win with a frontcourt that gets abused on a nightyly basis.

Don't even get me started on who is more valuable to their teams. :oldlol:

1993 Bulls with Jordan: [B]57-25[/B]
1994 Bulls w/o Jordan: [B]55-27[/B]

2010 Cavs with LeBron: [B]61-21[/B]
2011 Cavs w/o LeBron: [B]19- 63[/B]
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Jordan only had to be his teams go to scorer....LeBron has to be his teams go to scorer ON TOP of main playmaker/ball handler, top rebounder, top perimeter defender, top post defender. You name it and LeBron is the best on the Heat at it. And hes still racking up rings. :oldlol:

[IMG]http://oi40.tinypic.com/2yoa150.jpg[/IMG]

Did not read.

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[img]http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m8hwwidcSs1r3f9ymo1_250.gif[/img]

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In before excuses for Bosh's terrible postseason performance :oldlol:

I'm not down with the W/L analysis or accolade comparisons, but you raise a good point about differences in responsibilities.

[QUOTE=fpliii]I'm not down with the W/L analysis or accolade comparisons, but you raise a good point about differences in responsibilities.[/QUOTE]

The W/L shouldn't be looked at exclusively, but it is certainly supporting evidence.

Cleveland definitely started tanking midway through the year, but they did that because they were so bad anyway. Maybe not 19-63 bad, but it was a given without LeBron this team was irrelevant so they looked at the best interests of the franchise. People forget that going into this year Clevelands mindset was to show that they could play without LeBron and they were trying hard. That didn't last long.

Point being, Michaels Bulls were an elite NBA team with or without Michael. The 90s was an era where most teams only had one MVP caliber player, yet the Bulls had two of them(along with the best coach and rebounder in NBA History).

Even the current Heat are more similar to LeBrons Cavs than Michaels Bulls. This team is a long way from the "superteam" that formed in 2010. Wade was awful in these playoffs and Bosh makes 11 PPG 48% shooting centers look like Shaq. LeBron has just as many responsibilities as he did on Cleveland.

mods delete thread plz

"Miami Cavaliers" - Reggie Miller

Didn't read.

Jordan GOAT.

:banana:

[QUOTE=TonyMontana]The W/L shouldn't be looked at exclusively, but it is certainly supporting evidence.

Cleveland definitely started tanking midway through the year, but they did that because they were so bad anyway. Maybe not 19-63 bad, but it was a given without LeBron this team was irrelevant so they looked at the best interests of the franchise. People forget that going into this year Clevelands mindset was to show that they could play without LeBron and they were trying hard. That didn't last long.

Point being, Michaels Bulls were an elite NBA team with or without Michael. The 90s was an era where most teams only had one MVP caliber player, yet the Bulls had two of them(along with the best coach and rebounder in NBA History).

[B]Even the current Heat are more similar to LeBrons Cavs than Michaels Bulls. This team is a long way from the "superteam" that formed in 2010. Wade was awful in these playoffs and Bosh makes 11 PPG 48% shooting centers look like Shaq. LeBron has just as many responsibilities as he did on Cleveland.[/B][/QUOTE]

I followed you until the bolded. I haven't looked at it too closely, but it seems to be a bit much. Bosh is a bitch and was overrated from the start (he was without a doubt never a superstar), but Wade's been hurt the last two years. When Wade was healthy, this team won twenty something games in a row, which is absolutely insane. I think they definitely qualify as a superteam, at least on the same level as the first-threepeat Bulls. The second threepeat team was very likely deeper though.

[IMG]http://i2.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/original/000/237/621/c8a.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.interbasket.net/news/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/lebron_mj.jpg[/IMG]

[QUOTE=SilkkTheShocker]"Miami Cavaliers" - Reggie Miller[/QUOTE]
Which team was more stacked than the Heat with their 3 starting All Stars this past season in your opinion? The Spurs with an old Duncan, injured Parker, and old Manu? The Thunder with Durant and no Westbrook or Harden? The Pacers lol?

[QUOTE=fpliii]I followed you until the bolded. I haven't looked at it too closely, but it seems to be a bit much. Bosh is a bitch and was overrated from the start (he was without a doubt never a superstar), [B]but Wade's been hurt the last two years.[/B] When Wade was healthy, this team won twenty something games in a row, which is absolutely insane. I think they definitely qualify as a superteam, at least on the same level as the first-threepeat Bulls. The second threepeat team was very likely deeper though.[/QUOTE]

But that is exactly the point. This isn't 2006 Wade, 2009 Wade, or even 2011 Wade. Despite Wades poor play, the Heat have won multiple championships....Because LeBron is playing like the player he has always been able to... One of the 5 greatest players in basketball history.

The only thing super about the Heat is LeBrons play. Their bigmen are probably among the worst of any champion in NBA History. Chris Bosh is a bigger name than Horace Grant, but you'd be a fool to take him over him. Solid interior defense and great rebounding. He played inside...Bosh plays 19 feet from the hoop.

Their 2nd option in the playoffs scored 14 PPG on 49% TS...a 6'3 guard with no range and that couldn't get to the line.... and they still win with these glaring deficiencies.

When you have a player like LeBron, sometimes you can get by regardless. After carrying this team to two rings his legendary dominance should be acknowledged by all NBA fans.

This is the reason why alot of people wanted this guy banned.

Him and 9empire starting up trolling threads, hopefully mods finally sort this out

[QUOTE=Jameerthefear]mods delete thread plz[/QUOTE]

**** your mods wanker! Handle the facts, soak your pathetic mind in them and have a jolly good day you perpetulant bloke.

[QUOTE=TonyMontana]But that is exactly the point. This isn't 2006 Wade, 2009 Wade, or even 2011 Wade. Despite Wades poor play, the Heat have won multiple championships....Because LeBron is playing like the player he has always been able to... One of the 5 greatest players in basketball history.

The only thing super about the Heat is LeBrons play. Their bigmen are probably among the worst of any champion in NBA History. Chris Bosh is a bigger name than Horace Grant, but you'd be a fool to take him over him. Solid interior defense and great rebounding. He played inside...Bosh plays 19 feet from the hoop.

Their 2nd option in the playoffs scored 14 PPG on 49% TS...a 6'3 guard with no range and that couldn't get to the line.... and they still win with these glaring deficiencies.

When you have a player like LeBron, sometimes you can get by regardless. After carrying this team to two rings his credit should be acknowledged by all NBA fans.[/QUOTE]

The one thing about Bosh is he's automatic from his spots (like literally 50%+ from long mid-range), so you have to respect his shots. He doesn't give you anything else really and is a huge liability vs some of the bigger centers, but it's nice to have. He's also improved as a help defender. Don't get me wrong, he was garbage in the playoffs (particularly vs Indy and SA), but I think he's a good player.

I agree during the playoffs they didn't play to their superteam potential. But don't you agree that during the streak, they would qualify as a superteam under any definition? I think they'll meet that if they can manage Wade's minutes (and he got the same OssaTron procedure done that he did before 08-09), and get anything out of Oden.

[QUOTE=poido123]This is the reason why alot of people wanted this guy banned.

Him and 9empire starting up trolling threads, hopefully mods finally sort this out[/QUOTE]

The only ones trolling are the guys that post random gifs. I could argue you are trolling since you posted nothing relating to the topic at hand.

All of my posts are based on substance. Just because you disagree/can't handle it doesn't mean its "trolling"

Just came in here to say that the Bulls from '85-'98 went from winning 6 titles, five 60 win seasons with Jordan, to losing 60% of their games without Jordan in the lineup and in '97 won with Jordan averaging the same amount of rebounds as Rodman while leading them in points, assists, steals and blocks in the playoffs. :pimp:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/profile.php?do=addlist&userlist=ignore&u=286574[/url]

[QUOTE=Young X]Just came in here to say that the Bulls from '85-'98 went from winning 6 titles, five 60 win seasons to losing 60% of their games without Jordan in the lineup and in '97 won with Jordan averaging the same rebounds as Rodman while leading them in points, assists, steals and blocks in the playoffs. :pimp:[/QUOTE]

In 1.5x the minutes as Rodman. See I really like Jordan, and he's one of two legit GOAT candidates, but some of you guys take this too far. You can't force everyone to put him multiple levels above all other players ever, and it's fine if people don't. He's the GOAT non-big, and that's enough.

I'm sure TonyMontana does have an agenda here, but he's raised a valid point. His posting history/reputation hurts his credibility in this thread in the eyes of most, but a lot of what he's said is spot on.

[QUOTE=Dionysus]**** your mods wanker! Handle the facts, soak your pathetic mind in them and have a jolly good day you perpetulant bloke.[/QUOTE]

Here's a worthless poster if I've ever seen one.

I haven't seen you post in a while, must of been banned.

Looks like some posters can't handle the truth...

'93 Jordan was at 5,5 RAPM. He really did not add that much to that team.

Interesting point you make about Jordan's Bulls getting dominated by the Shaq/Grant frontcourt.

If the Heat took 7 games to beat a West/Hibbert front court, how do you think they'd go against a trio of Penny/Grant/Shaq :roll:

dickhead

[QUOTE=fpliii]The one thing about Bosh is he's automatic from his spots (like literally 50%+ from long mid-range), so you have to respect his shots. He doesn't give you anything else really and is a huge liability vs some of the bigger centers, but it's nice to have. He's also improved as a help defender. Don't get me wrong, he was garbage in the playoffs (particularly vs Indy and SA), but I think he's a good player.

I agree during the playoffs they didn't play to their superteam potential. But don't you agree that during the streak, they would qualify as a superteam under any definition? I think they'll meet that if they can manage Wade's minutes (and he got the same OssaTron procedure done that he did before 08-09), and get anything out of Oden.[/QUOTE]

Yeah Bosh is probably one of the best long two point shooters in the league. That is still an overrated skill. His entire game is going to be based on whether he is making those long two pointers(a bad shot to begin with). Whne your an elite defense/rebounder you don't need to worry about your shots going in. Just being on the court and running around doing what you do is going to be an extremely instrumental tool to the teams success.

And I do think Bosh is a great defender vs the pick and roll. Hes really quick on his feet for a 6'11 guy. Thats probably my favorite thing about his game.

Wade got most of the headlines after Game 4 of the Finals, but to me Bosh was the MVP of that game. He was boxing out like a boss, blocking/altering tons of shots, and playing inside all game. He had 20 points, 13 rebounds, 2 blocks on 8-14 shooting. It was a great game. His problem is he hardly ever plays like that.

I'm not too concerned with the regular season. LeBron alone guarantees 50+ regular season wins, and against these bottom feeding teams the Heat can get out on the run and just rape teams. This is when a guy like Wade flourishes. When he can just get in the open court. In the halfcourt(aka the playoffs) his deteriorated skills get greatly exposed. He doesn't provide spacing, and when he doesn't get to the line either he is a liability offensively.

[QUOTE=poido123]Here's a worthless poster if I've ever seen one.

I haven't seen you post in a while, must of been banned.[/QUOTE]

Jeff or whoever banned me for some racial and "trolling" bullshit claim. Makes 6th time I was banned for something they view as trolling. Mods here are garbage.

[QUOTE=Dionysus]Jeff or whoever banned me for some racial and "trolling" bullshit claim. Makes 6th time I was banned for something they view as trolling. Mods here are garbage.[/QUOTE]

6th time and you still coming back?

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[QUOTE=fpliii]In 1.5x the minutes as Rodman.[/QUOTE]The minutes aren't the point, I'm not trying to compare their rebounding abilities. :oldlol: The fact is, Rodman got injured and Jordan helped the Bulls out on the boards just as much as he did which goes against his point. Dude said Jordan only had to be his teams scorer and they were pretenders without rebounding, and I showed that the Bulls still won with Jordan damn near leading his team in every category in the playoffs.

[QUOTE=TonyMontana][B]Yeah Bosh is probably one of the best long two point shooters in the league. That is still an overrated skill. His entire game is going to be based on whether he is making those long two pointers(a bad shot to begin with). [/B] Whne your an elite defense/rebounder you don't need to worry about your shots going in. Just being on the court and running around doing what you do is going to be an extremely instrumental tool to the teams success.

And I do think Bosh is a great defender vs the pick and roll. Hes really quick on his feet for a 6'11 guy. Thats probably my favorite thing about his game.

Wade got most of the headlines after Game 4 of the Finals, but to me Bosh was the MVP of that game. He was boxing out like a boss, blocking/altering tons of shots, and playing inside all game. He had 20 points, 13 rebounds, 2 blocks on 8-14 shooting. It was a great game. His problem is he hardly ever plays like that.

I'm not too concerned with the regular season. LeBron alone guarantees 50+ regular season wins, and against these bottom feeding teams the Heat can get out on the run and just rape teams. [B]This is when a guy like Wade flourishes. When he can just get in the open court. In the halfcourt(aka the playoffs) his deteriorated skills get greatly exposed. He doesn't provide spacing, and when he doesn't get to the line either he is a liability offensively.[/B][/QUOTE]

1) The one problem is, you have to make difficult shots at some point. This is why a three-or-drive guy like Harden gets exposed against top playoff defenses (same with pick-and-rolls in general). It's sorta like game theory, you need to figure out what the opposition is gonna give you, they have to figure out what you think they're gonna give you, and so on. Defenses are fine conceding a low percentage shot, and that's why you need to take them and make them. Straight post-ups are incredibly inefficient in general, as are long-range two pointers. [U]If you can beat the other team in those departments, they'll have to live with it[/U]. Look at the last two playoffs...LeBron won last year by dominating in the post, and this year by finally taking the long jumpers they gave him. The Spurs were afraid of him driving (so they had Leonard guide him into Duncan), and also blocked off the three-point shooters so he couldn't make long swing passes.

2) Because he's been hurt. Wade in his career has destroyed teams in the half court in the playoffs, and has always been a great slasher in tight space. I think if he's healthy, he gives you that boost.

Aw yes, this abomination of a thread is back.

[QUOTE=Young X]The minutes aren't the point, I'm not trying to compare their rebounding abilities. :oldlol: The fact is, Rodman got injured and Jordan helped the Bulls out on the boards just as much as he did which goes against his point. Dude said Jordan only had to be his teams scorer and they were pretenders without rebounding, and I showed that the Bulls still won with Jordan damn near leading his team in every category in the playoffs.[/QUOTE]

Against Atlanta early in the playoffs MJ was big, and picked up the slack. Same with Scottie in the Finals. They went against a bruising front-line in Miami in the ECF, and Rodman showed up. I think the OP was trying to convey a difference in player responsibility (though he obviously had an agenda too). Jordan when he finally had a team around him was asked to do what he did best: score first, and help get the best out of his teammates. LeBron is being asked to guard big post players, and rebound with seven footers.

Versatility and added responsibility != better by any means, but there is a difference. Different players have different roles.

[QUOTE=TonyMontana]
[IMG]http://oi40.tinypic.com/2yoa150.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Lebron James age 28, 10 seasons, 765 games
Michael Jordan age 28, 8 seasons, 589 games

[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/6y0dut.jpg[/IMG]

:facepalm

[QUOTE=daily]Lebron James age 28, 10 seasons, 765 games
Michael Jordan age 28, 8 seasons, 589 games

[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/6y0dut.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
:applause:

[QUOTE=daily]Lebron James age 28, 10 seasons, 765 games
Michael Jordan age 28, 8 seasons, 589 games

[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/6y0dut.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
:lol

The real trolls of the thread are the ones posting "did not read" or insulting this thread. I think OP has very valid points and in no way did he pull some sort of argument out his ass. Isn't that the premise of Jordan stans is that they only post "facts"? Well Tony didn't post anything that wasn't true. Instead of the Jordaneers rationally debating they go on the defense and call this a troll thread. Typical move :facepalm

This is a good thread, backed with an OP who uses facts and is willing to take the discussion with people who disagree. Then we have the real trolls, or spammers, who come in here and act as if OP is the troll and ask for a perfectly good thread with good discussion material to be closed.

[QUOTE=daily]Lebron James age 28, 10 seasons, 765 games
Michael Jordan age 28, 8 seasons, 589 games

[IMG]http://i41.tinypic.com/6y0dut.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
What is the purpose of this? It's not like LeBron is going to shorten his career by few years so MJ can catch up with him.

[QUOTE=Nash]This is a good thread, backed with an OP who uses facts and is willing to take the discussion with people who disagree. Then we have the real trolls, or spammers, who come in here and act as if OP is the troll and ask for a perfectly good thread with good discussion material to be closed.[/QUOTE]

You're only a little bit less of a moron than the OP.