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So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
Weekly can of worms opening...
and I mean evolution as in the scientific theory with natural selection as its primary mechanism...NOT individuals evolving, but rather populations.
Is there any valid evidence for creationism? Unbiased, non biblical evidence?
Why is it that the scientific community overwhelmingly says that evolution is a scientific theory that we can say beyond a doubt is a certainty (as much as certainty is possible in empirical science), and yet millions of people don't believe in it?
GO!
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=D-Rose]Weekly can of worms opening...
[B]and I mean evolution as in the scientific theory with natural selection as its primary mechanism[/B]...NOT individuals evolving, but rather populations.
Is there any valid evidence for creationism? Unbiased, non biblical evidence?
Why is it that the scientific community overwhelmingly says that evolution is a scientific theory that we can say beyond a doubt is a certainty (as much as certainty is possible in empirical science), and yet millions of people don't believe in it?
GO![/QUOTE]
That's the problem. I think the majority of people that don't believe in evolution just don't understand what it is.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=Is He Ill]That's the problem. I think the majority of people that don't believe in evolution just don't understand what it is.[/QUOTE]
EXACTLY. It's not what their Pastor tells them it is.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
I 100% believe in evolution...but as far as human beings go, not ruling out alien-ape half breed test subject :D
[IMG]http://www.garysoszynski.com/storage/THELINK.jpg[/IMG]
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
creationism and evolution are both theories. One has evidence, the other is all faith. But even the one with the evidence is still called a theory. It just comes down to what the thread says: "believe".
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]I 100% believe in evolution...but as far as human beings go, not ruling out alien-ape half breed test subject :D
[IMG]http://www.garysoszynski.com/storage/THELINK.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
:oldlol: Even though I know it's bullsh*t, I like to think of it as a possibility as well.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
I think lowly of people who don't believe that evolution is real. I am sorry but it really irks me.
Once I was arguing with this kid, and his arguments was if evolution is real, and we came from monkeys, why are there monkeys still out there? Hey idiot, dogs came from wolves, and there still many species of wolves out there :facepalm
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]I 100% believe in evolution...but as far as human beings go, not ruling out alien-ape half breed test subject :D
[IMG]http://www.garysoszynski.com/storage/THELINK.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]
Some one actually painted that...
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=CelticBaller]I think lowly of people who don't believe that evolution is real. I am sorry but it really irks me.
Once I was arguing with this kid, and his arguments was [B]if evolution is real, and we came from monkeys, why are there monkeys still out there?[/B] Hey idiot, dogs came from wolves, and there still many species of wolves out there :facepalm[/QUOTE]
That's probably the most common statement that come from people who don't understand evolution.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=riseagainst]creationism and evolution are both theories. One has evidence, the other is all faith. But even the one with the evidence is still called a theory. It just comes down to what the thread says: "believe".[/QUOTE]
Do you know what "theory" means in science? Think of the theory of gravity, lol in science a hypothesis is something that you can believe, a theory is something that is the closest thing to absolute certainty.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=CelticBaller]I think lowly of people who don't believe that evolution is real. I am sorry but it really irks me.
Once I was arguing with this kid, and his arguments was if evolution is real, and we came from monkeys, why are there monkeys still out there? Hey idiot, dogs came from wolves, and there still many species of wolves out there :facepalm[/QUOTE]
bad example...dogs were created by humans...bred from wolves, coyote, jackles, etc
today's dog breeds didn't just evolve from wolf...
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=D-Rose]Do you know what "theory" means in science? Think of the theory of gravity, lol in science a hypothesis is something that you can believe, a theory is something that is the closest thing to absolute certainty.[/QUOTE]
isn't a "law" the closest thing to "certain"?
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]bad example...dogs were created by humans...bred from wolves, coyote, jackles, etc
today's dog breeds didn't just evolve from wolf...[/QUOTE]
No it isn't, Humans separated from their closest ancestor and bred with each other, some also bred with neanderthals. Just like humans separated wolves from their groups used selective breeding and domesticated them.
It's a really simple/similar to each other.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=D-Rose]Do you know what "theory" means in science? Think of the theory of gravity, lol in science a hypothesis is something that you can believe, a theory is something that is the closest thing to absolute certainty.[/QUOTE]
a theory is a hypothesis; a law is a proven fact, at least in the universe that we know of. So a law is the closest thing to certainty.
Theory: theory of relativity
Law: Law of thermodynamics, law of conservation of mass/energy.
and there is no theory of gravity. Gravity has been proven to exist.
:coleman:
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=riseagainst]creationism and evolution are both theories. One has evidence, the other is all faith. But even the one with the evidence is still called a theory. It just comes down to what the thread says: "believe".[/QUOTE]
Not really: we have directly observed evolution taking place in microorganisms. The only way you can deny it is to adhere to a form of relativism that renders everything derived from perceptions (therefore everything) utterly meaningless. There sits intellectual and moral chaos.
One is left with no choice then to accept it as a fact, unless one is a moron of course.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=riseagainst]a theory is a hypothesis; a law is a proven fact, at least in the universe that we know of. So a law is the closest thing to certainty.[/QUOTE]
A hypothesis is your starting point, you come up with a possible explanation (model) and then test it. If the experiment shows that it is wrong then the hypothesis is dropped, if after enough experimentation we are confident the model has explanatory power we keep it and call it a theory. Theories are usually also more fleshed out than hypotheses because after repeated experimentation more things are discovered about the model.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=riseagainst]a theory is a hypothesis; a law is a proven fact, at least in the universe that we know of. So a law is the closest thing to certainty.
Theory: theory of relativity
Law: Law of thermodynamics, law of conservation of mass/energy.
and there is no theory of gravity. Gravity has been proven to exist.
:coleman:[/QUOTE]
The law of natural selection.
:coleman:
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=riseagainst]and there is no theory of gravity. Gravity has been proven to exist.
:coleman:[/QUOTE]
Its existence is only a part of the theory. The theory states why gravity does what it does. We know the sky is blue but we also have created a theory to explain why it is blue.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=CelticBaller]No it isn't, Humans separated from their closest ancestor and bred with each other, some also bred with neanderthals. Just like humans separated wolves from their groups used selective breeding and domesticated them.
It's a really simple/similar to each other.[/QUOTE]
eh, not really...dog breeds didn't actually "evolve"...they were forced
would have been better off saying something like "snakes evolved from lizards but there are still lizards" or something like that
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]eh, not really...dog breeds didn't actually "evolve"...they were forced[/QUOTE]
Artificial selection, it is the same as natural selection except the selective process comes from humans rather than nature. Same process different cause. Although I guess you can argue that humans are a part of nature and therefore it is still natural selection. Either or, doesn't really matter.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-][B]eh, not really...dog breeds didn't actually "evolve"...they were forced[/B]
would have been better off saying something like "snakes evolved from lizards but there are still lizards" or something like that[/QUOTE]
Look, I get where you coming from, but that's still evolution. It was just accelerated due to selective breeding.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=miller-time]Artificial selection, it is the same as natural selection except the selective process comes from humans rather than nature. Same process different cause. Although I guess you can argue that humans are a part of nature and therefore it is still natural selection. Either or, doesn't really matter.[/QUOTE]
it's not the same process at all...dog breeds would have never survived in nature
evolution is based on natural flaws that happen to be best for the survival of a species...human's breeding animals is nothing like that at all
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
I find it hard to fathom that some people believe in young earth theory and creationism and stuff like that. But it's their beliefs and their choice. I've heard jokes about how some people believe dinosaur bones are just a test from god but does anyone actually believe that? In Australia we don't really have the religious people that you have in the states, does anyone actually know people who believe this stuff or is it like a few small minority who are hard line? It's also sad for the children if they are bought up to believe in this...
I do enjoy reading and watching things about aliens fathering life and all that, even though I know it isn't true it's fun to wonder about it and I do believe that we give far too little credit to how past civilizations lived and the levels of intelligence they had. I don't believe they had crazy technology like the alien shows claim but throughout history there's been plenty of "modern" discoveries that turned out to really just be re discovering what humans had already known/done in the past.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=outbreak]I find it hard to fathom that some people believe in young earth theory and creationism and stuff like that. But it's their beliefs and their choice. I've heard jokes about how some people believe dinosaur bones are just a test from god but does anyone actually believe that? In Australia we don't really have the religious people that you have in the states,[B] does anyone actually know people who believe this stuff or is it like a few small minority who are hard line?[/B] It's also sad for the children if they are bought up to believe in this...
I do enjoy reading and watching things about aliens fathering life and all that, even though I know it isn't true it's fun to wonder about it and I do believe that we give far too little credit to how past civilizations lived and the levels of intelligence they had. I don't believe they had crazy technology like the alien shows claim but throughout history there's been plenty of "modern" discoveries that turned out to really just be re discovering what humans had already known/done in the past.[/QUOTE]
I used to think it was a very small minority, but I don't know what to think anymore. I've run into a fair amount of religious nutbags down here. They're definitely in the minority, but there are more than plenty of them to be found. They do a very good job concealing it as well, it doesn't become apparent until you get to know them well enough.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]it's not the same process at all...dog breeds would have never survived in nature[/QUOTE]
We are exploiting the underlying mechanisms. It is exactly the same process. We are selecting traits that we want to see that arise in a particular breed. Instead of the animal surviving in nature they are selected to survive in human society.
In nature a canine might need to be cunning and fearless so the ones that express those traits are more successful and pass on their genes. In society we might want a dog to be friendly and passive so we select those animals to pass on their genes. In one instance nature promotes one set of genes in the other humans promote a different set of genes. At the end of the day all that has happened is a specific set of genes have been passed onto successive generations.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=riseagainst][B]a theory is a hypothesis; a law is a proven fact[/B], at least in the universe that we know of. So a law is the closest thing to certainty.
Theory: theory of relativity
Law: Law of thermodynamics, law of conservation of mass/energy.
and there is no theory of gravity. Gravity has been proven to exist.
:coleman:[/QUOTE]Nope.
[QUOTE]A scientific theory summarizes a hypothesis or group of hypotheses [B]that have been supported with repeated testing[/B]. A theory is valid as long as there is no evidence to dispute it. [/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]A law generalizes a body of observations. At the time it is made, no exceptions have been found to a law. Scientific laws explain things, but they do not describe them. One way to tell a law and a theory apart is to ask if the description gives you a means to explain 'why'.
Example: Consider Newton's Law of Gravity. Newton could use this law to predict the behavior of a dropped object, but he couldn't explain why it happened.[/QUOTE]
[url]http://chemistry.about.com/od/chemistry101/a/lawtheory.htm[/url]
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=miller-time]We are exploiting the underlying mechanisms. It is exactly the same process. We are selecting traits that we want to see that arise in a particular breed. Instead of the animal surviving in nature they are selected to survive in human society.
In nature a canine might need to be cunning and fearless so the ones that express those traits are more successful and pass on their genes. In society we might want a dog to be friendly and passive so we select those animals to pass on their genes. In one instance nature promotes one set of genes in the other humans promote a different set of genes. At the end of the day all that has happened is a specific set of genes have been passed onto successive generations.[/QUOTE]
so any time genes change it is "evolution"?...no matter what causes it?
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
I certainly believe we've "evolved" after we were "created".
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
Miller
Selective breeding and natural selection (evolution) are two very different things...the only thing similar about the two is that genes have changed from one state to another.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
Natural Selection and Artificial Selection are both part of evolution. Darwin discussed both in The Origins Of Species
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]so any time genes change it is "evolution"?...no matter what causes it?[/QUOTE]
At the species level. A random mutation in a particular animal is just a random mutation. But if that mutation propagates throughout the species then that is considered evolution. Why it propagates doesn't really matter, whether it is because of man or nature.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
I enjoy saying I don't believe in evolution just to see how worked up people who believe in it get . A lot of them are legitimately offended if you don't believe in what they do :roll:
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=kNicKz]I enjoy saying I don't believe in evolution just to see how worked up people who believe in it get . A lot of them are legitimately offended if you don't believe in what they do :roll:[/QUOTE]
It's not that, it's just like me saying gravity isn't real. You know how stupid that sounds?
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=miller-time]At the species level. A random mutation in a particular animal is just a random mutation. But if that mutation propagates throughout the species then that is considered evolution. Why it propagates doesn't really matter, whether it is because of man or nature.[/QUOTE]
IMO selective breeding is much closer to "intelligent design" than it is "evolution"
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=CelticBaller]It's not that, it's just like me saying gravity isn't real. You know how stupid that sounds?[/QUOTE]
Why do you care though? I never understood that. If someone told me they don't believe in gravity I would respect their view and not really give a shit . Doesn't effect me. It's a large world and not everyone relies on science for their answers. There is nothing wrong with that
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]so any time genes change it is "evolution"?...no matter what causes it?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]IMO selective breeding is much closer to "intelligent design" than it is "evolution"[/QUOTE]
Genes changing is just one part of evolution. Natural selection, sexual selection, breeding, etc. all just alter the particular frequency of a gene, or combination of genes, within a population.
Gene mutations, which are random, provide variation. The mutations which aid in reproduction end up being better represented within the population(i.e are selected), over time. When we breed animals, we're selecting for certain genes. When females copulate with dominant males (sexual selection), they're unwittingly selecting for certain genes. When a slow wildebeest gets pounced on by a lion (natural selection), nature is selecting for certain genes. They're all part of evolution.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=-p.tiddy-]IMO selective breeding is much closer to "intelligent design" than it is "evolution"[/QUOTE]
Basically you are confusing the issue by thinking that because man is influencing the results it is no longer evolution.
In nature nuclear fusion occurs all of the time in stars that is a natural process. But it is one we can also manufacture. Just because we can mimic something nature does doesn't make it intelligent design. It just means we are using certain forces (either a reactor in the case of fusion or selecting traits in the case of evolution) to do what nature already does.
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=kNicKz]Why do you care though? I never understood that. If someone told me they don't believe in gravity I would respect their view and not really give a shit . Doesn't effect me[/QUOTE]
I don't care that much, just find it ignorant sometimes and I would like to see their pov. When someone tells me they don't believe in evolution is usually because of what I posted earlier, if you were to tell me it's because of your religion I would be like ok and keep on, but it's usually the other way around and they try to argue with you.
Oh and if someone were to tell me gravity isn't real i would be like ok, I'll try to see their point, but if you were to argue with me...:oldlol:
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
The only thing evolutionists are good at is drawing stick pics and making up stories
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Re: So, who here doesn't believe in evolution?
[QUOTE=miller-time]Basically you are confusing the issue by thinking that because man is influencing the results it is no longer evolution.
In nature nuclear fusion occurs all of the time in stars that is a natural process. But it is one we can also manufacture. Just because we can mimic something nature does doesn't make it intelligent design. It just means we are using certain forces (either a reactor in the case of fusion or selecting traits in the case of evolution) to do what nature already does.[/QUOTE]
so if "God" influenced the results that would also be "evolution" and not "intelligent design" correct?