Vintage NBA: George Mikan

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8LVkqW8C6B4[/url]


Highlights
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dCgDx0Go2v0[/url]

[IMG]http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_mbzml2xEFL1renuivo1_400.gif[/IMG]

[IMG]https://www.toledoblade.com/image/2008/02/16/800x_b1_cCM_z/Geroge-Mikan-Nat-Clifton-Babe-Pressley-Slater-Martin.jpg[/IMG]

"[SIZE="2"][I]In the Trotters' locker room before the game, Abe gave a brief pep talk, then turned the floor over to player coach Babe Pressley, who laid out the game plan. The Globetrotters realized that there was no way Goose could handle Mikan one-on-one, as he was giving up seven inches and fifty pounds, so other players were going to have to sag on the Lakers' center, double-teaming him whenever he got the ball. Additionally, Pressley told them not to hesitate to foul Mikan hard and often. There was no "one-and-one" rule at that time, so a non-shooting foul drew only one shot.

The game plan, which had sounded plausible in the dressing room, fell apart completely when the game began. Mikan was stronger and quicker than the Trotters had expected, and he was simply overwhelming Goose[/I][/SIZE]"

[IMG]http://31.media.tumblr.com/95e2655a47ed99c85be5c3024c7a6951/tumblr_mw41x7kNdZ1qewpl9o1_500.jpg[/IMG]

RIP He would dominate these unfundamental scrubs playing now.

this dude would have ZERO chance today. ZERO.

[QUOTE=swagga]this dude would have ZERO chance today. ZERO.[/QUOTE]
No matter how much emphasis you put on it, still doesn't make it true...

Also, that hook shot:applause:

Just look at all that white trash in that gif.

[QUOTE=Dro]No matter how much emphasis you put on it, still doesn't make it true...

Also, that hook shot:applause:[/QUOTE]

What I see from the (few) highlights of mikan:

- Excellent hook shot (mikan drill, etc) but lacking a proper post game: up and under, jab steps, fade aways, power dunks, etc ... won't be scoring too much against NBA level athletes.
- A constitution lacking lower body strength with relatively small shoulders at only 6'10'' ... would be bullied for position and would certainly not rebound well.
- low athleticism, and absolutely no rim defense... would give a layup/dunk drill to the other team.

My conclusion is that he he would not even sniff the league.

So enlighten me please as to why I may be wrong.

He was a great legend of his time with incredible skills.

As for today, if you were able to pluck him out of history and put him in a game today, he would be physically outmatched. The game and athletes have evolved significantly since then and you just cannot compare the eras.

What you have to do is appreciate his skills and capabilities for the time he was in the league, as he was one of the best back then.


:pimp:

[B]Thanks for posting. Nice highlights video, people should check it out.

If you watch his highlights, you can see that he looks pretty skilled and smart, with some nice moves and a soft touch around the rim including a good hook-shot (good FT shooter too, underhanded), plus he was 6'10, 250 lbs while pretty mobile - all of this, at least to me. One would think he would be good regardless - even a good starting C nowadays, if he grew up in this era and dedicated his life to basketball - but you can say the shot-clock affected his play considerably, even though he was on the decline before and hadn't play for year.. So, I wouldn't "vouch for him" really, although it's more like a can't tell situation.

Of course ignorant people will just say that he would straight up suck no matter what, not even knowing what they're talking about in reality. They will also talk that (mostly) bullshit about the athleticism and whatnot, when dudes like Marc Gasol, Perkins, Splitter or Pekovic "can be" starting centers in this league. Same old same, it is what it is.[/B]

First of all, greats should be given the benefit of the doubt because they were, in actual fact, great - not mediocre, not even decent, but great. Our hypotheticals will never change that reality.

A "modernized" version of Mikan I think could do really well in the league. A 6'10, tough, smart and hardworking player who's mobile and has a good touch... at the very least he'd get in the NBA based on outstanding college production with this kind of profile. If you look at the moves he had in the 50s, you see him making sky hooks and a Dirk leg. Those aren't old school moves that wouldn't work today, but the very moves no one's ever found a real answer for, so it's not too much of a stretch to imagine his offensive moves at his height being difficult to stop today. He's also great at free throws which is HUGE for a post player. And if he were raised in today's game, you can easily imagine him having a reliable modern jumper at the key. He'd probably need to develop it and he has the right tools and mindset for it. Where he suffers most I think is on defense. Does he completely dominate everyone and make LeBron/Durant etc. look "average"? Probably not. Would he be a very productive player everyone wants on his team? I think so.

In any case, his impact on the game was incredible. His legacy is one of the greatest in all of basketball.

Mikan's drills around the basket for warmups was something my coach did with me from day one.

Kareem even stated his drills in grade school taught him his hook shot.

:applause:

narrow lanes changed to wider lanes , and goal tending rules were because of him
Amazing one player changing rules..

[QUOTE=swagga]What I see from the (few) highlights of mikan:

- Excellent hook shot (mikan drill, etc) but lacking a proper post game: up and under, jab steps, fade aways, power dunks, etc ... won't be scoring too much against NBA level athletes.
- A constitution lacking lower body strength with relatively small shoulders at only 6'10'' ... would be bullied for position and would certainly not rebound well.
- low athleticism, and absolutely no rim defense... would give a layup/dunk drill to the other team.

My conclusion is that he he would not even sniff the league.

So enlighten me please as to why I may be wrong.[/QUOTE]
Mikan was huge.... what do you mean small shoulders/etc?

245lbs as a scrawny ass rookie... the guy was 280lbs by the 1950's and never touched a set of weights... 6-10 is likely his actual height too as he basically played in the barnstorming 40's and 50's, not some BS inflated height era caused by marketing and competition. He's a wide bodied 7 footer through and through with a very visibly wide frame. His body and natural athleticism isn't very vertical but his shoulders look wide and strong AF...

You know how big Wilt is, he towered over young Shaq... well here's Lakers 300+ lbs Wilt standing next to old man Mikan on the right:
[IMG]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QfX6baLFFEo/UlTFlxAuISI/AAAAAAAAEu0/lu03u4Mdr1c/s800/Bob-Kurland%252C-Wilt%252C-MikanV%2520%25281%2529.jpg[/IMG]

Wilt's shoulders look narrow compared to Mikans. Mikan had the raw physical tools to be a dominant center... it wasn't a coincidence that he was a dominant center in his own era. There were other 7 footers he went up against, they didn't have his massive frame (or competitive fire), thus he was the Shaq of his time. (btw that's Bob Kurland on the right)

As with all the greats, they are a product of their era. Put Mikan as an NBA player in to todays NBA and he'd be terrible. On the other hand, put Mikan as a kid learning modern fundamentals throughout high school and college and I expect he'd be a very good player in todays league.

Aaron Gray is an NBA player. Whatever retards think Mikan couldn't play now should get clocked in the mouth.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Mikan was huge.... what do you mean small shoulders/etc?

245lbs as a scrawny ass rookie... the guy was 280lbs by the 1950's and never touched a set of weights... 6-10 is likely his actual height too as he basically played in the barnstorming 40's and 50's, not some BS inflated height era caused by marketing and competition. He's a wide bodied 7 footer through and through with a very visibly wide frame. His body and natural athleticism isn't very vertical but his shoulders look wide and strong AF...

You know how big Wilt is, he towered over young Shaq... well here's Lakers 300+ lbs Wilt standing next to old man Mikan on the right:
[IMG]https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-QfX6baLFFEo/UlTFlxAuISI/AAAAAAAAEu0/lu03u4Mdr1c/s800/Bob-Kurland%252C-Wilt%252C-MikanV%2520%25281%2529.jpg[/IMG]

Wilt's shoulders look narrow compared to Mikans. Mikan had the raw physical tools to be a dominant center... it wasn't a coincidence that he was a dominant center in his own era. There were other 7 footers he went up against, they didn't have his massive frame (or competitive fire), thus he was the Shaq of his time. (btw that's Bob Kurland on the right)[/QUOTE]

[B]Plus, he looked pretty mobile with some decent moves, soft touch around the rim with a sweet hook-shot and a solid turnaround jumper from close. Also seemed like a tough dude, capable of rebounding and playing defense. And he could shoot like 78% from ft.[/B]

Goat

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Plus, he looked pretty mobile with some decent moves, soft touch around the rim with a sweet hook-shot and a solid turnaround jumper from close. Also seemed like a tough dude, capable of rebounding and playing defense. And he could shoot like 78% from ft.[/B][/QUOTE]
[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mikange01.html[/url]

Great free throw shooter also....But his FG% is pretty damn low considering how narrow the lane was then and where he'd normally set himself up

[IMG]http://legendaryauctions.com/ItemImages/000153/153091a_lg.jpeg[/IMG]

Babe Ruth signs ball for 10 year old Gorge Mikan

[QUOTE=SHAQisGOAT][B]Plus, he looked pretty mobile with some decent moves, soft touch around the rim with a sweet hook-shot and a solid turnaround jumper from close. Also seemed like a tough dude, capable of rebounding and playing defense. And he could shoot like 78% from ft.[/B][/QUOTE]
If you haven't seen this guy

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAuQLyeB9mM[/url]

[IMG]http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/lakers.historical.photos/images/ed-kalafat-clyde-lovelette.jpg[/IMG]


[IMG]http://worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2005/03/30/ClydeLovelette_t460.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_z1xzR4daO_M/Sp66lknCyvI/AAAAAAAAB_I/pXMtVR0-qGU/s400/Clyde+Loevellette+Auto.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://prohoopshistory.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/clyde-lovellette.jpg[/IMG]

At the same time, Chamberlain was often paying a physical toll, getting slapped, elbowed, poked, pulled and scratched himself.
"The things I saw guys to do him was unbelievable," said teammate Al Attles. "Clyde Lovellette hit him with that elbow that drove Wilt's lower teeth up into his jaw and put him the hospital and caused an infection. That was the worst of it, but he was always being beat up and abused."


"BOSTON (AP) - San Francisco's Wilt Chamberlain floored Boston's Clyde
Lovellette with a punch in the nose Monday night, but the Celtics floored the
Warriors 124-101 and took a two game lead in the final National Basketball
Association Playoffs.
THe Lovellette-Chamberlain incident, at the foul line in the fourth period,
touched off a near riot.
...
The fourth period squabble came about when the officials called Lovellette for
fouling Chamberlain. The two big pivot men had words and some scuffling ensued.
Then, Wilt turned his kayo punch loose, knocking Lovellette to this knees.
Blood streamed from the big Boston center's nose.
Both benches emptied onot the floor and police were called in to help restore
order.
Auerbach seemed the most incensed of all. Russell had a difficult time pulling
his coach off the court and back to the bench.
The only action taken was the upholdig of the foul against Lovellette. Nobody
was thrown out and Chamberlain calmly dropped in the free throw."

[QUOTE=jongib369]If you haven't seen this guy

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAuQLyeB9mM[/url]

[IMG]http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/lakers.historical.photos/images/ed-kalafat-clyde-lovelette.jpg[/IMG]


[IMG]http://worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2005/03/30/ClydeLovelette_t460.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_z1xzR4daO_M/Sp66lknCyvI/AAAAAAAAB_I/pXMtVR0-qGU/s400/Clyde+Loevellette+Auto.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://prohoopshistory.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/clyde-lovellette.jpg[/IMG]

At the same time, Chamberlain was often paying a physical toll, getting slapped, elbowed, poked, pulled and scratched himself.
"The things I saw guys to do him was unbelievable," said teammate Al Attles. "Clyde Lovellette hit him with that elbow that drove Wilt's lower teeth up into his jaw and put him the hospital and caused an infection. That was the worst of it, but he was always being beat up and abused."


"BOSTON (AP) - San Francisco's Wilt Chamberlain floored Boston's Clyde
Lovellette with a punch in the nose Monday night, but the Celtics floored the
Warriors 124-101 and took a two game lead in the final National Basketball
Association Playoffs.
THe Lovellette-Chamberlain incident, at the foul line in the fourth period,
touched off a near riot.
...
The fourth period squabble came about when the officials called Lovellette for
fouling Chamberlain. The two big pivot men had words and some scuffling ensued.
Then, Wilt turned his kayo punch loose, knocking Lovellette to this knees.
Blood streamed from the big Boston center's nose.
Both benches emptied onot the floor and police were called in to help restore
order.
Auerbach seemed the most incensed of all. Russell had a difficult time pulling
his coach off the court and back to the bench.
The only action taken was the upholdig of the foul against Lovellette. Nobody
was thrown out and Chamberlain calmly dropped in the free throw."[/QUOTE]
:applause:

[QUOTE=Dro]:applause:[/QUOTE]
It's been awhile since I've seen the numbers, but I looked at about 3-4 seasons he played against Russell or Chamberlain that was some of his highest scoring seasons and he averaged 20+ against them....With his FG% not being affected much. He wasn't a slouch, and in some ways he looks even more refined than Mikan

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/l/lovelcl01.html[/url]

Honestly with his dominance and resume he deserves a spot on the top 10 GOAT list. Maybe as high as 4th all-time.

[QUOTE=jongib369][IMG]http://31.media.tumblr.com/95e2655a47ed99c85be5c3024c7a6951/tumblr_mw41x7kNdZ1qewpl9o1_500.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Looks like my librarian :lol

[QUOTE=HoopsFanNumero1]Looks like my librarian :lol[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://media.liveauctiongroup.net/i/9301/10288030_1.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]https://www.toledoblade.com/image/2008/02/16/800x_b1_cCM_z/Geroge-Mikan-Nat-Clifton-Babe-Pressley-Slater-Martin.jpg[/IMG]

[url]http://www.mmbolding.com/basketball/Globetrotters.htm[/url]

"In the Trotters' locker room before the game, Abe gave a brief pep talk, then turned the floor over to player coach Babe Pressley, who laid out the game plan. The Globetrotters realized that there was no way Goose could handle Mikan one-on-one, as he was giving up seven inches and fifty pounds, so other players were going to have to sag on the Lakers' center, double-teaming him whenever he got the ball. Additionally, Pressley told them not to hesitate to foul Mikan hard and often. There was no "one-and-one" rule at that time, so a non-shooting foul drew only one shot.

The game plan, which had sounded plausible in the dressing room, fell apart completely when the game began. Mikan was stronger and quicker than the Trotters had expected, and he was simply overwhelming Goose"

[QUOTE=jongib369][url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/mikange01.html[/url]

Great free throw shooter also....But his FG% is pretty damn low considering how narrow the lane was then and where he'd normally set himself up[/QUOTE]

[B]Yea that's also true. He was once 5th and once 3rd in the league in FG% though, while being 1st in points, but his competition wasn't strong like what came around after him.[/B]

lmao this thread is fuggin senile. :oldlol: he was great in the 50s but today he dead meat.

one dude puttin a crazy picture with people at different distances, ages, weights, different clothes types,etc ... half the 7 footers would look broader than wilt, you look at a playing time picture of course. But what can you expect from cavaliersftw?

others talking about skill, could he pull those moves against nba level athleticism? shit if those are his best clips because it's obvious that was what they was putting on tape those days that's some depressing shit.

Fluidity and athleticism??? :lol compared to the other white boys back then maybe?

@ aaron gray talk : maybe he could play in the nba the aaron gray role ... aaron gray is 2 inches taller though. that's not saying much tbh.

Let me give you fools some pictures of this guy, maybe we ain't talkin about the same person:

dem muscles doe :lol
[img]http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/456/034/GeorgeMikan2_display_image.jpg[/img]

dem arms, daaaam son he could put wilt on his ass anytime
[img]http://ilhoopshall.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/George-Mikan.jpg[/img]

dem wide shoulders doe. Dwight level forreal. dat vision too
[img]http://cdn1.bringmethenews.com/wp-content/uploads/George-Mikan.jpg[/img]

NBA level physique.
[img]http://media-cache-cd0.pinimg.com/736x/79/82/38/798238be1fa09ea48c1e8eae61c9d478.jpg[/img]

strong arms for boxing out.
[img]http://www.legendaryauctions.com/ItemImages/000097/101331_2488_med.jpeg[/img]

****** ripped doe :lol
[img]http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/456/034/GeorgeMikan2_display_image.jpg[/img]

:bowdown: One of the great Lakers of all time. Give it up for the old school!

now how the fukc is any of you people really implying that a dude from the 50s that look like decently fit librarian with a hook shot could be a valuable NBA player today is beyond me.

great FT and post moves :roll: Doe you gotta be able to stay on feet and hold your position to use/get them or have some tom chambers like athleticism. A 6'10 and that physique&speed this white boy would get thrashed. THRASHED.

lmao again @aaron gray last resort comparison.


Daam boy daam this thraed made my day.:biggums: :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[QUOTE=swagga]...
[B]My conclusion is that he he would not even sniff the league.[/B]
[/QUOTE]

With all due respect: your conclusion is irrelevant.
History has it ways to come to its own conclusions and they tend to last longer.

[QUOTE=swagga]What I see from the (few) highlights of mikan:

- Excellent hook shot (mikan drill, etc) but lacking a proper post game: up and under, jab steps, fade aways, power dunks, etc ... won't be scoring too much against NBA level athletes.
- A constitution lacking lower body strength with relatively small shoulders at only 6'10'' ... would be bullied for position and would certainly not rebound well.
- low athleticism, and absolutely no rim defense... would give a layup/dunk drill to the other team.

My conclusion is that he he would not even sniff the league.

So enlighten me please as to why I may be wrong.[/QUOTE]

Here's some light for you: Nobody in his era tried to teach him the crap that you mention that he lacked. Do you even know that "lack" means? Suppose someone on the road robs a multi-millionaire who might happen to carry only $100 with him. I guess if the robber had your "logic", he'd think "gee, this guy lacks money".
Also, if you think Mikan had small shoulders, you may need some actual light.
:sleeping at the muscles crap. Show us Zidrunas' muscles. Kaman's muscles. Even young Kareem's muscles. Not to mention non-C Durant, who was billed by some too weak to do anything serious in the NBA when he failed his strength tests as a rookie.

[QUOTE=swagga]now how the fukc is any of you people really implying that a dude from the 50s that look like decently fit librarian with a hook shot could be a valuable NBA player today is beyond me.

great FT and post moves Doe you gotta be able to stay on feet and hold your position to use/get them or have some tom chambers like athleticism. A 6'10 and that physique&speed this white boy would get thrashed. THRASHED.

lmao again @aaron gray last resort comparison.


Daam boy daam this thraed made my day.[/QUOTE]

[B]:facepalm Keep burying yourself even more, ignorant child.

I'm pretty sure you've never even played a minute of organized basketball in your life and you know nothing about the game.. yet you keep on going :rolleyes: Ignorant shit all around man :facepalm

Since you like posting pics, I can do it too:

[IMG]http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/26/article-0-1A85EF1D000005DC-203_634x763.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.williamkwolfrum.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/kevinloveface.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://www.examiner.com/images/blog/replicate/EXID1192/images/Knicks_Lee_070829.jpg[/IMG]

Look at some of these white-boys, wouldn't be shit in this era.... wait.... :lol
And Mikan - for example - didn't even come up with all these "luxuries" you can think of, plus with players to "learn from".[/B]

Shot only 40% for his career. Not being rude but he wouldn't be sh*t in today's NBA. Probably a very poor man's david lee. He wouldn't survive with those pencil arms.

[QUOTE=Smook A.]Shot only 40% for his career. Not being rude but he wouldn't be sh*t in today's NBA. Probably a very poor man's david lee. He wouldn't survive with those pencil arms.[/QUOTE]
What about Clyde? posted about him in this thread

[QUOTE=jongib369]What about Clyde? posted about him in this thread[/QUOTE]
Which Clyde?

[QUOTE=Smook A.]Which Clyde?[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE=jongib369]If you haven't seen this guy

[url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAuQLyeB9mM[/url]

[IMG]http://i.cdn.turner.com/si/multimedia/photo_gallery/0902/lakers.historical.photos/images/ed-kalafat-clyde-lovelette.jpg[/IMG]


[IMG]http://worldonline.media.clients.ellingtoncms.com/img/photos/2005/03/30/ClydeLovelette_t460.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_z1xzR4daO_M/Sp66lknCyvI/AAAAAAAAB_I/pXMtVR0-qGU/s400/Clyde+Loevellette+Auto.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://prohoopshistory.files.wordpress.com/2013/07/clyde-lovellette.jpg[/IMG]

At the same time, Chamberlain was often paying a physical toll, getting slapped, elbowed, poked, pulled and scratched himself.
"The things I saw guys to do him was unbelievable," said teammate Al Attles. "Clyde Lovellette hit him with that elbow that drove Wilt's lower teeth up into his jaw and put him the hospital and caused an infection. That was the worst of it, but he was always being beat up and abused."


"BOSTON (AP) - San Francisco's Wilt Chamberlain floored Boston's Clyde
Lovellette with a punch in the nose Monday night, but the Celtics floored the
Warriors 124-101 and took a two game lead in the final National Basketball
Association Playoffs.
THe Lovellette-Chamberlain incident, at the foul line in the fourth period,
touched off a near riot.
...
The fourth period squabble came about when the officials called Lovellette for
fouling Chamberlain. The two big pivot men had words and some scuffling ensued.
Then, Wilt turned his kayo punch loose, knocking Lovellette to this knees.
Blood streamed from the big Boston center's nose.
Both benches emptied onot the floor and police were called in to help restore
order.
Auerbach seemed the most incensed of all. Russell had a difficult time pulling
his coach off the court and back to the bench.
The only action taken was the upholdig of the foul against Lovellette. Nobody
was thrown out and Chamberlain calmly dropped in the free throw."[/QUOTE]
Him

[QUOTE=jongib369]Him[/QUOTE]
He's fat. Not hating but he is an Aaron Gray in today's NBA.

No muscle, looks slower than a sloth without legs. That won't translate in this era

[QUOTE=Smook A.]He's fat. Not hating but he is an Aaron Gray in today's NBA.

No muscle, looks slower than a sloth without legs. That won't translate in this era[/QUOTE]

[B]If you saw pics - taken with an old camera - from Marc Gasol, Kevin Love or David Lee (like I've posted, for example), without having no idea who they were or what they could do, you would say the same though...

But keep talking (ignorant) shit for the **** of it.[/B]