US state department and Pentagon confirm Russia is firing on Ukraine

[url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/24/russian-artillery-fired-eastern-ukraine/13108615/[/url]

Obama and Merkel are trembling in their boots. :lol

the world is afraid of Russia. its pitiful. Separatists are also randomly taking some reporters, nobody knows where. all the world leaders do is cry about it every day :facepalm

[QUOTE=Godzuki]the world is afraid of Russia. its pitiful. Separatists are also randomly taking some reporters, nobody knows where. all the world leaders do is cry about it every day :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Not afraid, but Russia isn't a country you can just push around with no consequences. Countries generally only mess with significantly weaker countries.

[QUOTE=Godzuki]the world is afraid of Russia. its pitiful. Separatists are also randomly taking some reporters, nobody knows where. all the world leaders do is cry about it every day :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Putin knows the world leaders will not do anything.... but pose economic sanctions. He's willing to let the economy to take a hit to bring back Russia as a military superpower. He wants to be a force.

so in all your wisdom, what do expect the US to do? invade Russia? :facepalm

The US can only do so much, it's the european leaders that need to grow a pair and follow the US with sanctions, that's when Putin is going to feel some real pain.

[QUOTE=rezznor]so in all your wisdom, what do expect the US to do? invade Russia? :facepalm

The US can only do so much, it's the european leaders that need to grow a pair and follow the US with sanctions, that's when Putin is going to feel some real pain.[/QUOTE]


i want us to fukk up the Separatists...at the least arm the Ukrainians against the Separatists. I want us to call Putin's playing 2 sides.

maybe even send in special forces at night or some type of attack on the Separatists. I want us to clearly stand with Ukraine...against the Separatists.

Ukraine chose the west over joiniing Russia...and we aren't even backing them after all of this BS...

So will there be sanctions against Israel too? Why isn't US pressuring them?

It's funny when these conflicts involve Russia or a Muslim nation, US is quick to judge and the media immediately paints them as the bad guys. But if it's Israel doing the same thing, they never say or do anything. At the end of the day our government only cares about the shift of power and their own interests, the people getting hurt and nations collapsing is irrelevant.

[QUOTE=Graviton]So will there be sanctions against Israel too? Why isn't US pressuring them?

It's funny when these conflicts involve Russia or a Muslim nation, US is quick to judge and the media immediately paints them as the bad guys. But if it's Israel doing the same thing, they never say or do anything. [B]At the end of the day our government only cares about the shift of power and their own interests, the people getting hurt and nations collapsing is irrelevant.[/B][/QUOTE]

:applause:

[QUOTE=longhornfan1234][url]http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2014/07/24/russian-artillery-fired-eastern-ukraine/13108615/[/url]

Obama and Merkel are trembling in their boots. :lol[/QUOTE]
The **** does this have to do with President Obama? :facepalm

[QUOTE=Graviton]So will there be sanctions against Israel too? Why isn't US pressuring them?

It's funny when these conflicts involve Russia or a Muslim nation, US is quick to judge and the media immediately paints them as the bad guys. But if it's Israel doing the same thing, they never say or do anything. At the end of the day our government only cares about the shift of power and their own interests, the people getting hurt and nations collapsing is irrelevant.[/QUOTE]


maybe because they understand Hamas are constantly attacking Israel hiding behind civilians that make for great headlines to the dumb, and the only thing Israel can reallly do right now is try to set a deterrence by hitting back hard....

Israel is between a rock and a hard place. can't even think of many options for them at this point other than doing what they're doing.

[QUOTE=Godzuki]maybe because they understand Hamas are constantly attacking Israel hiding behind civilians that make for great headlines to the dumb, and the only thing Israel can reallly do right now is try to set a deterrence by hitting back hard....

Israel is between a rock and a hard place. can't even think of many options for them at this point other than doing what they're doing.[/QUOTE]
Whatever their motivations, I am talking about America's attitude. Imagine if Russians started bombing schools in Ukraine then saying "Ukrainian rebels fired rockets at us". Think US would care? You would have headlines painting Russia as this evil conquering force that is invading the poor defenseless Ukraine. And Obama would be demanding Putin to stop.

Right now on the news they are showing the people and places Israel has killed and destroyed, but the media is not vilifying them the way they do Russia. Their stance is neutral, they are just reporting the news. Passing it off as "Israel defending itself" and the civilian casualties as the unfortunate outcome. Hard to believe they would do the same if it was Russia doing the same.

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[QUOTE=Graviton]Whatever their motivations, I am talking about America's attitude. Imagine if Russians started bombing schools in Ukraine then saying "Ukrainian rebels fired rockets at us". Think US would care? You would have headlines painting Russia as this evil conquering force that is invading the poor defenseless Ukraine. And Obama would be demanding Putin to stop.

Right now on the news they are showing the people and places Israel has killed and destroyed, but the media is not vilifying them the way they do Russia. Their stance is neutral, they are just reporting the news. Passing it off as "Israel defending itself" and the civilian casualties as the unfortunate outcome. Hard to believe they would do the same if it was Russia doing the same.[/QUOTE]


if you're going to paint a scenario be more specific with it, especially if you're trying to parallel it to the Israel - Palestine conflict....

basically mention why/who the aggressors are...who is REALLY starting the weapon conflicts. make a analogy more accurate to Hamas and what they want to accomplish, not some "imagine if Russia randomly fires rockets into Ukraine schools"....

that makes ALL of the difference in the world. I have no personal bias with Israel, i just know who the REAL aggressors are in this fight. sorry taking land and bulldozing houses is not the same as sneak attacking endlessly and hiding behind civilians.

lets be real, most of the arab world wants Israel destroyed.

World War III impeding.

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[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing][IMG]http://www.jeffpearlman.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/obama-coward-211x300.jpg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

wft do you want him to do?

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[QUOTE=Godzuki]if you're going to paint a scenario be more specific with it, especially if you're trying to parallel it to the Israel - Palestine conflict....

basically mention why/who the aggressors are...who is REALLY starting the weapon conflicts. make a analogy more accurate to Hamas and what they want to accomplish, not some "imagine if Russia randomly fires rockets into Ukraine schools"....

that makes ALL of the difference in the world. I have no personal bias with Israel, i just know who the REAL aggressors are in this fight. sorry taking land and bulldozing houses is not the same as sneak attacking endlessly and hiding behind civilians.

lets be real, most of the arab world wants Israel destroyed.[/QUOTE]

It all started from those 3 Israeli boys being killed, slowly the conflict grows and it turns into all out war.

I thought you were up to date on the latest news, [URL="http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-25/15-killed-in-israeli-shelling-of-gaza-school/5622832"]Israel bombed a school shelter and killed 15 people, mostly kids. [/URL]They said Hamas militants hide in such places and rockets may have been hidden there. But the UN reporters after investigating the site said no rocket parts, ammunition or any weapons were found.

Now Russia reportedly is firing artillery shells at Ukraine, do you see the analogy now? If they hit a school and killed 15 people and injured 200 do you think the US media would be reporting this with the same tone as Israel's bombings? Obama would be condemning Putin and all the news organizations would be against Russia. But since Israel is their ally they are staying neutral.

And lets be real, Israel wants those arab nations destroyed too. They all hate each other, there are no good guys in this scenario.

[QUOTE=zoom17]wft do you want him to do?[/QUOTE]


Do you know what the President of the Free World and the most powerful man in the world is doing right now while the world burns???

Fundraising.


Fundraising instead of acting Presidential and trying to resolve conflicts as every past President before him has. Not to mention our border is in chaos with thousands coming across. He rather be fundraising instead.

Any sane President would be in Russia right now demanding a cease-fire and demanding Putin to pull back his troops. Any sane President would be in Israel right now demanding Hamas to surrender and demand they stop attacking Israel. Any sane President would pass legislation to deport every single illegal citizen back to the country they came from. We have millions on welfare and the President wants to borrow 4.7 billion dollars to tackle the border mess. The man is a buffoon. Worst President ever.

[QUOTE=Graviton]It all started from those 3 Israeli boys being killed, slowly the conflict grows and it turns into all out war.

I thought you were up to date on the latest news, [URL="http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-07-25/15-killed-in-israeli-shelling-of-gaza-school/5622832"]Israel bombed a school shelter and killed 15 people, mostly kids. [/URL]They said Hamas militants hide in such places and rockets may have been hidden there. But the UN reporters after investigating the site said no rocket parts, ammunition or any weapons were found.

Now Russia reportedly is firing artillery shells at Ukraine, do you see the analogy now? If they hit a school and killed 15 people and injured 200 do you think the US media would be reporting this with the same tone as Israel's bombings? Obama would be condemning Putin and all the news organizations would be against Russia. But since Israel is their ally they are staying neutral.

And lets be real, Israel wants those arab nations destroyed too. They all hate each other, there are no good guys in this scenario.[/QUOTE]


i'm talking about the whole feud, the overview of it. not one incident because your analogy was a generalization of the feud.

no, Israel does not want to blow up Palestine, stop BS'ing. they easily could have already....they want peace but they keep getting shelled.

i swear a lot of you argue so disingenuously :facepalm

wow. lets do this shit then. i hope you boys sign up.

[QUOTE=Godzuki]i'm talking about the whole feud, the overview of it. not one incident because your analogy was a generalization of the feud.

no, Israel does not want to blow up Palestine, stop BS'ing. they easily could have already....they want peace but they keep getting shelled.

i swear a lot of you argue so disingenuously :facepalm[/QUOTE]
I don't give a shit about the Israel feud, my point was on US media and the way America views Russia. You are focusing on the conflict with Palestine/Israel, I am focusing on US/Russia relations.

[QUOTE=nathanjizzle]wow. lets do this shit then. i hope you boys sign up.[/QUOTE]


military have been getting paid for years training for a reason...

wish i was getting paid, free health insurance, housing, food, just to train too, now i have to sign up?

either way i don't think there should ever be mass US troops on the ground again on foreign soil...we have enough toys, special ops, money, etc. to fund, arm, and do stuff that doesn't require a draft.

too bad we're just watching and complaining :sleeping

[QUOTE=Graviton]I don't give a shit about the Israel feud, my point was on US media and the way America views Russia. You are focusing on the conflict with Palestine/Israel, I am focusing on US/Russia relations.[/QUOTE]


you said Israel wants those arab nations destroyed too....

[QUOTE=Godzuki]you said Israel wants those arab nations destroyed too....[/QUOTE]
Jews hate Muslims, Muslims hate jews. Not a hard concept to grasp. Unless you mean to tell me they are just misunderstood and they don't want anyone to get hurt.

[QUOTE=Graviton]Jews hate Muslims, Muslims hate jews. Not a hard concept to grasp. Unless you mean to tell me they are just misunderstood and they don't want anyone to get hurt.[/QUOTE]


i don't see Israel as aggressors...i do see muslim's as hating the Jews tho.

[QUOTE=Godzuki]i don't see Israel as aggressors...i do see muslim's as hating the Jews tho.[/QUOTE]
This shit been going on for decades. Pretty obvious they both hate each other, whoever is the aggressor is irrelevant. The war was gonna happen sooner or later.

[QUOTE=Graviton]This shit been going on for decades. Pretty obvious they both hate each other, whoever is the aggressor is irrelevant. The war was gonna happen sooner or later.[/QUOTE]


nah i think religiously, its a more one sided hate...

aggressor to me means everything. without that there would be peace.

[QUOTE=Godzuki]nah i think religiously, its a more one sided hate...[/QUOTE]

Eh their hatred seems equally strong. I would say one side is at Palpatine's level, the other around Hitler.

[QUOTE=Graviton]Eh their hatred seems equally strong. I would say one side is at Palpatine's level, the other around Hitler.[/QUOTE]


guess we'll have to agree to disagree :cheers:

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Do you know what the President of the Free World and the most powerful man in the world is doing right now while the world burns???

Fundraising.


Fundraising instead of acting Presidential and trying to resolve conflicts as every past President before him has. Not to mention our border is in chaos with thousands coming across. He rather be fundraising instead.

Any sane President would be in Russia right now demanding a cease-fire and demanding Putin to pull back his troops. Any sane President would be in Israel right now demanding Hamas to surrender and demand they stop attacking Israel. Any sane President would pass legislation to deport every single illegal citizen back to the country they came from. We have millions on welfare and the President wants to borrow 4.7 billion dollars to tackle the border mess. The man is a buffoon. Worst President ever.[/QUOTE]

Selective criticism is selective.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Any sane President would pass legislation[/QUOTE]

That's the legislative branch's job.

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Good for you buddy :applause:

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]Do you know what the President of the Free World and the most powerful man in the world is doing right now while the world burns???

Fundraising.


Fundraising instead of acting Presidential and trying to resolve conflicts as every past President before him has. Not to mention our border is in chaos with thousands coming across. He rather be fundraising instead.

Any sane President would be in Russia right now demanding a cease-fire and demanding Putin to pull back his troops. Any sane President would be in Israel right now demanding Hamas to surrender and demand they stop attacking Israel. Any sane President would pass legislation to deport every single illegal citizen back to the country they came from. We have millions on welfare and the President wants to borrow 4.7 billion dollars to tackle the border mess. The man is a buffoon. Worst President ever.[/QUOTE]
You're goddamn embarrassing. My god this is sad. :facepalm

[QUOTE=Droid101]You're goddamn embarrassing. My god this is sad. :facepalm[/QUOTE]


The truth hurts you little bitch

And super L O L at this clown bringing up the border situation. The president is asking for more funds to enforce a law that *drumroll please* President Bush signed in 2008.

What a partisan maroon.

Enjoy a Democratic President for the next 10 years.

[QUOTE=Droid101]And super L O L at this clown bringing up the border situation. The president is asking for more funds to enforce a law that *drumroll please* President Bush signed in 2008.

What a partisan maroon.

Enjoy a Democratic President for the next 10 years.[/QUOTE]


And how are the funds divided? Where does the money go and what happens after that? Do you know? And Obama has never enforced that law. You don't need 4.7 billion dollars to round them all up and send them back. Put the National Guard at the border. Case closed. That does not cost 4.7 billion dollars.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing]And how are the funds divided? Where does the money go and what happens after that? Do you know? And Obama has never enforced that law. You don't need 4.7 billion dollars to round them all up and send them back. Put the National Guard at the border. Case closed. That does not cost 4.7 billion dollars.[/QUOTE]
Uh... that's not the law, so therefore you can't "round them all up and send them back." Unaccompanied children cannot be instantly put in a bus and deported. There is a process that President Bush signed into law.

[url]http://www.state.gov/j/tip/laws/113178.htm[/url]

[QUOTE=Droid101]Uh... that's not the law, so therefore you can't "round them all up and send them back." Unaccompanied children cannot be instantly put in a bus and deported. There is a process that President Bush signed into law.

[url]http://www.state.gov/j/tip/laws/113178.htm[/url][/QUOTE]

I'm so impressed that you went to find me a law, however, that law does not state that these people must stay here and that we are prevented from stopping traffickers at the border.

[QUOTE=rezznor]so in all your wisdom, what do expect the US to do? invade Russia? :facepalm

The US can only do so much, it's the european leaders that need to grow a pair and follow the US with sanctions, that's when Putin is going to feel some real pain.[/QUOTE]

I want US, UK, Germany Israel, and Ukraine to go to war with Russia, Syria, and Iran. It's inevitable.