Westbrook's dominance proves how easily MJ would be the best player today

[quote=GIF REACTION]


[B][U]Illegal Defense Rules
[/U][/B]

[B]2a.[/B] Weak side defenders may come in the pro lane (16’), but not in the college lane (12’) [b][COLOR="Red"]for more than three seconds[/COLOR][/b].


[/quote]
As the bolded red shows, previous era defenders could could remain INDEFINITELY in the "pro" lane, or the outer partition of the paint - today's defenders can't do that - they have a max of 3 seconds.

And for the inner part of the paint (college lane), weakside defenders can stay for up to 3 seconds, just like today's defenders.


[quote=GIF REACTION]

[B]2b.[/B] Defender on post player is allowed in defensive three-second area (A post player is any player [COLOR="Blue"]adjacent[/COLOR] to paint area).

[COLOR="darkRed"][B]2b.[/B] When a defensive player is guarding an offensive player who is [COLOR="Blue"]adjacent[/COLOR] (posted-up) to the 3-second lane, the defensive player may be within the "inside lane" area with no time limitations. An offensive player shall be ruled as "postedup" when he is within 3' of the free throw lane line. A hash mark on the baseline denotes the 3' area.[/COLOR]

[/quote]
Rule 2b is a legal paint-camping provision.

As you can see, defenders were allowed to stay in the paint "[I]with no time limitation[/I]" if their man was in the paint already, or "[i]adjacent[/I]" to the paint - "[I]adjacent[/I]" is defined as when the offensive player is within 3 feet of either side of the paint, as denoted by hash marks on the baseline.. The hash marks are the only thing refs had to eyeball if an offensive player was "adjacent"/within 3 feet, or further than 3 feet/in violation, which is why defenders often camped in the paint while their man was all the way at the 3-point line (no enforcement).

The criteria needed to paint-camp (a defender's man being in the paint or within 3 feet of either side) was always fulfilled in previous eras due to the lack of 3-point shooting and spacing - coaches foolishly ran offenses that didn't shoot threes and positioned players close to the rim, which [i]activated[/i] this legal-paint camping provision of Rule 2b.. The full Illegal Defense Guidelines from the NBA rule book are [url=http://nbahoopsonline.com/History/Leagues/NBA/Rules/Fouls.html][COLOR="Blue"]here[/COLOR][/url], also shown at realgm [url=http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?p=28840140&sid=f37d422abcb4fb3198dba014bc15f361#p28840140]here[/url].


[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]

[B]2c.[/B] Player without ball may not be double-teamed from weak side.

[/quote]
Rule 2c is essentially the same thing as today's flooding - but flooding isn't an advantage for today's game - it's a substitute.. Today's 3-pointers/spacing and the resulting further distance of help defenders makes offensive players more dangerous when they catch the ball, which necessitates extra tactics so the ballhandler isn't as secluded by the spacing - but the flooding tactic merely makes the concentration of defenders equivalent to an un-spaced court where help defenders were already in closer proximity.

Lack of spacing and closer proximity of help defenders made previous eras better-equipped to handle a player that has the ball without needing risky gambles like flooding, where big men come away from the rim to flood in a mismatch outside the paint.. Instead, the lack of 3-point shooting kept offensive players closer to the paint, which allowed defenders to paint-camp when their man was in the paint or within 3 feet of either side (see Rule 2b above).. Paint-camping is a more equitable way to defend the entire court, without necessitating the extra rotations and leaving guys wide open that flooding requires.


[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]

[B]2d[/B]. Offensive player above foul line and inside circle must be played by defender inside dotted line (upper part of the paint).

[/quote]
This allows defenders to stand in the upper part of the paint above the dotted line INDEFNITELY when their man is at college 3-point distance (the tip of the circle).

Otoh, today's defenders can NEVER stay in the paint for longer than 3 seconds unless they're within "[I]armslength[/I]".. But being on the dotted line in the paint is [U]way[/U] out of armslength of the college 3-point line (tip of circle).

By virtue of being able to stay in the paint indefinitely, previous era defenders have more flexibility in this spot (when a defender's man is at the top of the circle).


[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]

[B]2e.[/B] If offensive player is above the top of the circle, defender must come to a position above foul line. [COLOR="Red"](within 2.9 seconds)[/COLOR]

[/QUOTE]
This is the same as today - when an offensive player is above the tip of circle, his defender can't sag into the paint for more than 3 seconds.

Btw, NBA.com didn't list the full rule from the NBA rule book - when a defender's man moves above the tip of the circle, the defender has 3 seconds to come out of the paint to a position above the foul line.. Obviously, the defender wouldn't need to [I]instantaneously[/I] come out of the paint - Rule 2e gives the defender 3 seconds, just like today's rule.


[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]

Today's game has shooting-enforced spacing, not rule-enforced spacing

[/QUOTE]
Today's game has rule-enforced spacing in the paint ("[I]armslength[/I]").... and spacing-enforced spacing outside the paint via 3-pointers.

Otoh, previous eras didn't have spacing-enforced spacing (no 3's).

They didn't have material rules-enforced spacing either - defenders could paint-camp and they could sag off 3-point shooters to the edge of the paint just like today's defenders.


[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]

Elite scorer numbers are down across the board

[/QUOTE]
False - there were only two 30-point scorers in the entire 90's - MJ did it 6 times and Karl Malone once - that's only 2 guys.. But in the 2000's there have been many 30-point scorers.. It's like night and day...

Furthermore, there are only 2 ball-dominators never even broke 25 ppg in the 90's!!!... The game just wasn't set up for ball-dominators back then like it is now.. Otoh, the no spacing and hand-checking of previous eras are the two things least conducive to penetration.


[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]

ball movement and clever schemes are required for these elite scorers to hit the box score.

[/QUOTE]
False again - over 50% of Harden and Lebron's offense comes from isolations and screen-roll.. It was 60% for Lebron in the playoffs.. 50-60% is standard for point guards and ball-dominators like Harden and Lebron and CP3.


[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]

George Karl on how the rule changes have made post ups inefficient

[/QUOTE]
George Karl is wrong..

It's a mathematical fact that without 3-pointers, the efficiency of screen rolls/drive-and-kick plummets and becomes not worthwhile compared to post-ups.. This proves that the decline in post-ups is due to higher efficiency drive-and-kick made possible by 3-pointers, not defensive tactics.. In the absence of 3-pointers, no amount of defensive strategy could prevent post-ups from supplanting drive-and-kick.

Since post-ups, mid-range, off-ball and isolations were the only things left in the 80's without the 3-pointers needed to make drive-and-kick back worthwhile, we can say with certainty that Lebron would be half the player back then - he's simply not elite in any of these areas.


[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]

[B]2001 - Removal of Illegal Defense Guidelines[/B]

Purpose: [B]To encourage ball movement and team play through giving defenses more freedom to defend, [COLOR="Red"]particularly help defense from the weak side[/COLOR][/B], which was extremely restricted from 1981-2001 with the Illegal defense guideline in place

[/QUOTE]
The NBA said their rule changes were meant to create superior spacing, which put ALL defenders a further distance away from helping, especially weakside help defenders.

Specifically, the NBA said they wanted to increase drive-and-kick to encourage 3's and make spacing better, so they robbed the defense of their hands (literally) and forced them to keep the paint clear (defensive 3 seconds) to "open up the game".. Here the NBA's official statements on the rule changes:

[url]http://www.nba.com/2009/news/features/04/09/stujackson/index.html[/url]


[QUOTE=GIF REACTION]

You simply cannot compare stats across eras without mentioning the [B]rule changes[/B]

[/quote]
[COLOR="Indigo"][I]PREVIOUS ERA[/I]: paint-camping... no-spacing... hand-checking[/COLOR]
[COLOR="DarkRed"][I]TODAY'S ERA[/I]:[COLOR="White"].....[/COLOR] shading..[COLOR="White"]........[/COLOR] spacing.. [COLOR="White"]..[/COLOR]no hand-checking[/COLOR]


Remember, Wade and Westbrook led league in scoring in 2009 and 2015 with a worse 3-point shot and far worse mid-range shot than MJ.. Nor could they double-pump with ease from the [url=http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/10-03-2015/64Ba72.gif]FT line[/url] like MJ.. And let's compare the defenses they faced:

I guess that's why MJ was able to average 37 PPG on 59% TS despite shooting all 2-pointers amidst [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLDGm8pV6uU&t=6m40s]every-possession double-teams[/url]... Only the goat has it [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=386210]like that[/url].

[QUOTE=3ball]Jordan[/QUOTE]
Agreed.

Is Westbrook the best player today? But anyway, water is wet.

[IMG]http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/bcga.gif[/IMG]

Jordan in today's era = JR Smith without the 3 point shooting. :sleeping

I agree. Prime Michael Jordan would be the best player if he played today. Thanks for the insight.

[QUOTE=JT123]Jordan in today's era = JR Smith without the 3 point shooting. :sleeping[/QUOTE]
/thread

Jordan would be another Dion Waiters in today's game

[QUOTE=3ball] Jordan [/QUOTE]

Spot on. :applause:

Westbrook is faster, more explosive, more tenacious, plays harder, and is the better play maker.

He has an argument over Jordan as the better player

Jordan would probably average 35/6/6 at .530% in today's era.


oh wait, he already did that in the 80's.


It wouldn't surprise me if Jordan averaged 40 points a game for at least one season if he played in this era.

[QUOTE=Budadiiii]Westbrook is faster, more explosive, more tenacious, plays harder, and is the better play maker.

He has an argument over Jordan as the better player[/QUOTE]
Durant plays with a player better than Jordan and has no rings? :biggums:

Westbrook is averaging 6.5 rebounds this year. Jordan's career average is 6.2

If Jordan grew up in today's era he'd probably be a three point chucker like everyone else.

[QUOTE=JT123]Jordan in today's era = JR Smith without the 3 point shooting. :sleeping[/QUOTE]

I didn't think it was possible but you're going beyond the realms of human stupidity with every post, it's disappointing AND impressive.

[QUOTE=stephanieg]If Jordan grew up in today's era he'd probably be a three point chucker like everyone else.[/QUOTE]
Too smart shot selection wise to do that ... mid range wins championships. See: MJ, Kobe, Wade, and LeBron in 2012 / 2013. Chucking 3's makes for early exits. Fools gold shot.

[QUOTE=navy]Durant plays with a player better than Jordan and has no rings? :biggums:[/QUOTE]
[IMG]http://stream1.gifsoup.com/view/518441/glass-joe-knockout-o.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]http://gifrific.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/02/Kevin-Garnett-Reaction-at-2013-Dunk-Contest.gif[/IMG]

Wait, ppl are still arguing how dominant MJ would be in this era? :facepalm

[QUOTE=navy]Durant plays with a player better than Jordan and has no rings? :biggums:[/QUOTE]
:lol

[QUOTE=jzek]Wait, ppl are still arguing how dominant MJ would be in this era? :facepalm[/QUOTE]
Some people have reached a stage where any accomplishment from players of this era simply help to add to Jordan's legacy. It's wild.

If MJ grew up today he would have been cut from his high school JV team and would be working at burger king right now.

[IMG]http://i.giphy.com/eIwfsyhLJiNzy.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH][B]Too smart shot selection wise to do that [/B]... mid range wins championships. See: MJ, [B]Kobe[/B], Wade, and LeBron in 2012 / 2013. Chucking 3's makes for early exits. Fools gold shot.[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c2/04/47/c20447790fac4ad9999b16024a368617.jpg[/IMG]

Yeah 5.3 three point attempts this season on under .30%...that shot selection. Guys shot selection has always been terrible...what the **** are you doing putting him with those other 3 in this regard?

[QUOTE=SugarHill]Some people have reached a stage where any accomplishment from players of this era simply help to add to Jordan's legacy. It's wild.[/QUOTE]
What's sad is they don't even appear to enjoy the game of basketball.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]What's sad is they don't even appear to enjoy the game of basketball.[/QUOTE]

Exactly. Some of these guys go on and on about 80's and 90's basketball but you never hear them talking about today's game. They are missing out on some great players and great action by constantly living in the past.

TOPKEK

hell naw grampa

[IMG]https://slangrap.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/jordangqfeb2011.jpg[/IMG]

westbrook crushes him evry way possible

[IMG]http://imagestoring.net/gfx/1114/russell-westbrook-shirtless-abs.jpeg[/IMG]

Poor man's Tony Allen.

Westbrook is more athletic than Jordan

[QUOTE=JT123]Jordan in today's era = JR Smith without the 3 point shooting. :sleeping[/QUOTE]

So Lebron has MJ with 3pt shotting coming of the bench?

#noexcuse

[QUOTE=Smoke117][IMG]https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/originals/c2/04/47/c20447790fac4ad9999b16024a368617.jpg[/IMG]

Yeah 5.3 three point attempts this season on under .30%...that shot selection. Guys shot selection has always been terrible...what the **** are you doing putting him with those other 3 in this regard?[/QUOTE]
I'm talking about mid range scoring skill set, and ability. Come on bruh, I know you're smarter than this ... keep up.

If we're ranking these specific players abilities to score from mid range / post:

1) MJ: 6 rings, 6 Finals MVPs
2) Kobe: 5 rings, 2 Finals MVPs
3) Wade: 3 rings, Finals MVP
4) LeBron: 2 rings, 2 Finals MVPs

It's no coincidence that Bron didn't finally win until he could score consistently in that area of the floor. Which was the 2012 season. It's a skill set that allows players from the perimeter to flourish in the post season. Thus why Harden is always such a failure come playoff time.

[QUOTE=Cocaine80s]Westbrook is more athletic than Jordan[/QUOTE]

Here comes the 3ball gif spam.

MJ was a great player, but was also greatly overrated. He wouldn't even be top 3 today. Top 5 definitely though.

[QUOTE=G0ATbe]MJ was a great player, but was also greatly overrated. He wouldn't even be top 3 today. Top 5 definitely though.[/QUOTE]

:coleman:

Who would you put ahead of him?

[QUOTE=JT123]Jordan in today's era = JR Smith without the 3 point shooting. :sleeping[/QUOTE]
:biggums:

[QUOTE=King Jane]TOPKEK

hell naw grampa

[IMG]https://slangrap.files.wordpress.com/2011/01/jordangqfeb2011.jpg[/IMG]

westbrook crushes him evry way possible

[IMG]http://imagestoring.net/gfx/1114/russell-westbrook-shirtless-abs.jpeg[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Westbrook looks natural.

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH]I'm talking about mid range scoring skill set, and ability. Come on bruh, I know you're smarter than this ... keep up.

If we're ranking these specific players abilities to score from mid range / post:

1) MJ: 6 rings, 6 Finals MVPs
2) Kobe: 5 rings, 2 Finals MVPs
3) Wade: 3 rings, Finals MVP
4) LeBron: 2 rings, 2 Finals MVPs

It's no coincidence that Bron didn't finally win until he could score consistently in that area of the floor. Which was the 2012 season. It's a skill set that allows players from the perimeter to flourish in the post season. Thus why Harden is always such a failure come playoff time.[/QUOTE]

No shit. The point is Kobe's shot selection has NEVER BEEN GOOD FROM ANY DISTANCE...EVER. Try and keep up. Your stupid argument that he was a smarter player who was more prone to taking awful mid range shots compared to awful three point shots doesn't mean a whole damn lot...because they are still consistently bad shots regardless of where they were from on the court.

You know it's almost as if "Greatest of all time" means he would be the best player in any era

.
[b][size="3"]High-level moves as required by no-spacing[/size][/b]


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[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/cebaec04eb04d06fba2884406be8c52f.gif[/IMG].


[IMG]http://gifsforum.com/images_new/gif/other/grand/4f2bc467a6f4e6ba3f9e9adeeb4cc57d.gif[/IMG].


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[QUOTE=3ball]Jordan[/QUOTE]
Brilliant post again. :bowdown:

[QUOTE=KirbyPls]

Westbrook looks natural.

[/QUOTE]
Westbrook would look tiny next to Jordan.. he'd look smaller than Joe Dumars.

He's not just significantly shorter - with shorter height comes smaller bone structure... Westbrook is a materially smaller player than [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCOJQOMEJ4Y][u]Ray Allen[/u][/url] or [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvquD3ktNbQ][u]Latrell Sprewell[/u][/url] - and as you can see, both those guys look tiny next to Jordan.

That's why Jordan did so many things physically that Westbrook can't even dream of doing, such as the free throw line dunks shown above and tons of [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=10866292&postcount=29][u]other plays[/u][/url].

Or if you're eye test isn't reliable, you can just go by [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=352399][u]the stats[/u][/url], which show that Jordan dunked 3 times as much as Westbrook... Comparing [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11021030&postcount=6][u]MJ's game[/u][/url] to Westbrook shows how differently they get things done, and how plays that are pedestrian for Jordan, are plays of the year for Westbrook.