This YT video explains and shows why the no zone defense was much easier to play in.

As a superstar.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM_eCnTNt1Q[/url]

Shows and explains why today's superstars have it harder with zone compared to last greats.

[I]"No team played zone on more than 10 percent of defensive possessions last season, per Synergy Sports. Dallas became known as the zone team in 2010-11, but they played a hybrid man zone more than a straight zone, and they did that on a small minority of possessions.

[B]The league overall actually scored more efficiently against zone than man last season, according to Synergy.[/B]" [/I]

Grantland, 2012

[QUOTE=Poetry][I]"No team played zone on more than 10 percent of defensive possessions last season, per Synergy Sports. Dallas became known as the zone team in 2010-11, but they played a hybrid man zone more than a straight zone, and they did that on a small minority of possessions.

[B]The league overall actually scored more efficiently against zone than man last season, according to Synergy.[/B]" [/I]

Grantland, 2012[/QUOTE]
Watch the video

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]As a superstar.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YM_eCnTNt1Q[/url]

Shows and explains why today's superstars have it harder with zone compared to last greats.[/QUOTE]

Yeah let's act like teams today utilize a real zone defensive scheme. :rolleyes:

Go play ball more and stop sitting in front of your computer kid, maybe just maybe you can gain some understanding of the game. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Watch the video[/QUOTE]
Answer this basic question or your thread is a fail. If zone is so effective, why don't teams play it more than 10% of the time? Simple question...

That vid is fcking bogus. :facepalm

He goes on to use MJ's 63 point game as an example of isolation play, then shows clips of MJ driving through the lane against MULTIPLE defenders. What a joke... :facepalm

You kids need to grow a brain. Illegal defense does make for more isolation plays but it doesn't mean defenders can't double the offensive player. With smart help defense, the paint could easily get packed before the player could even get there. And again the zone of today's NBA lacks the most important anchor of the defensive scheme, the center packing the paint area. Zones aren't that hard to beat, do you really believe that MJ one of the best mid range shooters of all time couldn't beat a zone? jesus... :whatever:

[QUOTE=Dro]Answer this basic question or your thread is a fail. If zone is so effective, why don't teams play it more than 10% of the time? Simple question...[/QUOTE]
If zone isn't effective, then why even have the rule?

Even Jordan and many others said they hated zone. Jordan didn't have to deal with it until he played with the Wizards.

Notice the likes/dislikes disabled?

Uploader in the comments:

[QUOTE=TheRiggedBA]"[I]Dear Jordanites,

If you want to comment on the video, please stop spamming the page with big blocks of cut and paste from insane Jordan cult member channels and websites. You guys keep cutting and pasting meaningless data dumps of the same deliberately misleading, out-of-context stats and silly arguments verbatim. [B]YouTube automatically(and correctly) marks comments like that as spam and hides them because it detects that the same glut of text has been posted elsewhere over and over. No one, including me, can see your comments when you do that and I'm not going to constantly check and sort through my spam box looking for them just because you insist on trolling every basketball video with the same dumb shit literally word-for-word.[/B]

Type a real message like you have some sense so that people will actually get to see it and be able to respond.[/I]"[/QUOTE]

The uploader is an NBA conspiracy theorist. He uploads videos with two objectives in mind.

#1, to prove the Michael Jordan is overrated

#2, to prove the NBA is rigged (his YT name is riggedNBA)

His content and conclusions are tin-foil hat status. He has an agenda in mind when he makes his videos. Don't expect him to be some arbiter of truth.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]If zone isn't effective, then why even have the rule?

Even Jordan and many others said they hated zone. Jordan didn't have to deal with it until he played with the Wizards.[/QUOTE]

They hated it because they don't usually play against it and threw them off guard. If teams utilized it more, these "SUPERSTARS" will get used to it and adapt easily. Go back to the drawing board kid. :hammerhead:

[QUOTE=Asukal]That vid is fcking bogus. :facepalm

He goes on to use MJ's 63 point game as an example of isolation play, [B]then shows clips of MJ driving through the lane against MULTIPLE defenders. What a joke... :facepalm
[/B]
You kids need to grow a brain. Illegal defense does make for more isolation plays but it doesn't mean defenders can't double the offensive player. With smart help defense, the paint could easily get packed before the player could even get there. And again the zone of today's NBA lacks the most important anchor of the defensive scheme, the center packing the paint area. Zones aren't that hard to beat, do you really believe that [B]MJ one of the best mid range shooters of all time couldn't beat a zone? jesus... [/B]:whatever:[/QUOTE]
Also shows Danny Ainge and Walton guarding him one on one, no help (which is a joke) because of no zone / illegal defense.

MJ able to convert over Danny Ainge one on one with no help D allowed?....."mind blown"

[QUOTE=Poetry][I]"No team played zone on more than 10 percent of defensive possessions last season, per Synergy Sports. Dallas became known as the zone team in 2010-11, but they played a hybrid man zone more than a straight zone, and they did that on a small minority of possessions.

[B]The league overall actually scored more efficiently against zone than man last season, according to Synergy.[/B]" [/I]

Grantland, 2012[/QUOTE]

Spurs played zone almost exclusively when Bron was the ball handler in the finals. Both in 2013 and 2014. Only difference was he was shooting the ball well in 2014.

[QUOTE=Asukal]They hated it because they don't usually play against it and threw them off guard. [B]If teams utilized it more, these "SUPERSTARS" will get used to it and adapt easily[/B]. Go back to the drawing board kid. :hammerhead:[/QUOTE]
If teams couldn't use it all (80's 90's) the superstars have nothing to adapt to. They just keep saying they hate zone defense, just like MJ did.

Watch the video.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Also shows Danny Ainge and Walton guarding him one on one, no help (which is a joke) because of no zone / illegal defense.

MJ able to convert over Danny Ainge one on one with no help D allowed?....."mind blown"[/QUOTE]

Dude you are a blind mfcker. All iso starts with one defender, when MJ drives 2-3 help defenders were waiting on the paint. MJ shooting a jumper over ainge demonstrates exactly what beats a zone defense. Your agenda driven thread is hilarious, the GOAT living rent free on your minds. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Also shows Danny Ainge and Walton guarding him one on one, no help (which is a joke) because of no zone / illegal defense.

MJ able to convert over Danny Ainge one on one with no help D allowed?....."mind blown"[/QUOTE]
Except MJ can score over ANYBODY, 1 vs. 1 or 1 vs. 3. I still don't see the point...He's the GOAT scorer, he's going to score, period. He's smart enough and good enough to figure out what he needs to do to be successful. Yeah he had Phil but at some point, he would have figured it out. Probably have less rings though.

And players don't like playing against zones because yes, it throws you off...thats why its good to go to it in stretches to switch things up. But a team playing zone the entire game and other teams have a chance to gameplan and figure out their strategy before it starts? Oh my...Every team may avg. over 100 ppg and thats not an exaggeration. The only reason they wouldn't is because zone the entire game may slow the pace of the game down which again, is not as entertaining...Thats why many don't like college because a lot of teams play zone all the time.

Again, NBA scouts, gms and coaches get paid to come up with ways to stop the other team and they don't use zone.

Also as a player myself, zones are boring to play against because it removes the mano e mano factor, the 1 vs. 1 factor. You lose the ability to directly school the defender thats guarding you so you wouldn't have as many rivalries...You don't have a Shaq vs. Hakeem in the 95 Finals with a zone defense. These guys are competitive. Nobody wants to play against a zone and win shooting 50 pull mid-range jumpshots, its boring...

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]If teams couldn't use it all (80's 90's) the superstars have nothing to adapt to. They just keep saying they hate zone defense, just like MJ did.

Watch the video.[/QUOTE]

That video reeks of ignorance and bias. I did watch it and I instantly knew the uploader has zero credibility whatsoever. Rent free. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Asukal]Dude you are a blind mfcker. All iso starts with one defender, when MJ drives 2-3 help defenders were waiting on the paint. MJ shooting a jumper over ainge demonstrates exactly what beats a zone defense. Your agenda driven thread is hilarious, the GOAT living rent free on your minds. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Ball movement and perimeter shooting beats a zone. So getting it out of an individuals hands and actually moving the ball. Hence, a decrease in individual greatness and reliance on one superstar.

[QUOTE=Asukal][B]That video reeks of ignorance and bias[/B]. I did watch it and I instantly knew the uploader has zero credibility whatsoever. Rent free. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
Because it shows what you don't want the facts to prove.

[QUOTE=plowking]Ball movement and perimeter shooting beats a zone. So getting it out of an individuals hands and actually moving the ball. Hence, a decrease in individual greatness and reliance on one superstar.[/QUOTE]

What's going to stop a coach from setting up plays for his SUPERSTAR to get open perimeter shots? Specially since zone don't cover like man to man defense. :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Because it shows what you don't want the facts to prove.[/QUOTE]

Nah, it shows you and many people are idiots and don't understand how the game is played. Rent free. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Because it shows what you don't want the facts to prove.[/QUOTE]
You mean bodies of evidence - we're forming opinions with bodies of evidence here as the topic in question is an area of gray not black or white/fact or fiction.

Now, in order to form accurate opinions as much data as possible needs to be collected. All sides, people, testimony need to be represented. That isn't being done here though, not ALL players think a zone for example, is more difficult to score on or play against. I've heard Oscar Robertson dismiss zone as an opportunity to get more 3 point shots and layups. Why didn't the uploader include that interview in his video? Because it does not suit his agenda, he has an agenda. Like I said he's not trying to be some arbiter of truth and objectivity, he's trying to show the opinions and plays that suit his agenda. He wouldn't express the same opinion in all his videos (MJ sucks, the NBA is rigged) over and over again if he was objective and truth seeking just trying to help NBA fans understand the game, that isn't his plans at all. He's a tin foil hat fan only crafting and presenting the narrative he's believed all along, whether he could have found examples to support it or not.

Not this again :oldlol:

According to Synergy Sports, 'Zone' is played 2.7% of all defensive possessions league wide and teams actually score better on higher percentages against it than straight man (think someone pointed that out earlier). Scoring, pace, shooting percentages have increased markedly since the introduction of the the 3-second violation and the elimination of hand-checking. And actual zone was common place in the pre-2001 era, ask me for details.

The Cavaliers [I]second option[/I] has 2 50 point games this season alone. Let that marinate on your brain for a minute.

Can't really expect ish to enter this with an open mind, but the video is somewhat legit in the small corner it attempts to paint. The mj iso and going into 3 defenders was a fail though, I'm sure he could have found something better than that. The strategic 3 in the key part was telling. Also he was correct in the shading aspect of the zone being one of the most challenging aspects of it for stars. Just because today's stars adapted to it doesn't mean they wouldn't be better without it.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Not this again :oldlol:

According to Synergy Sports, 'Zone' is played 2.7% of all defensive possessions league wide and teams actually score better on higher percentages against it than straight man (think someone pointed that out earlier). Scoring, pace, shooting percentages have increased markedly since the introduction of the the 3-second violation and the elimination of hand-checking. And actual zone was common place in the pre-2001 era, ask me for details.

The Cavaliers [I]second option[/I] has 2 50 point games this season alone. Let that marinate on your brain for a minute.[/QUOTE]

Is synergy specifying a full zone in those numbers, or hybrid zones? I'm pretty sure the hybrid types are the most utilized, which the shading he illustrated comes from.

Here goes don again with his bullshit

Define a zone

It's WAY more than just zones

The way in which you can double team now

There is literally no restriction on defenses now

The 05 handcheck rule was necessary because the rules were in favor of defenses from 2001-2004, when record defensive numbers were recorded

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin]Here goes don again with his bullshit[/QUOTE]

Yup, videos made by random nobodies on youtube = legit evidence. But empirical data from the company the NBA employs to track every single play during the season/postseason = Don's bullshit.

Story checks out.

[QUOTE]There is literally no restriction on defenses now[/QUOTE]

Except defenders not being able to stay in the paint for more than 2.9 seconds or physically impede offensive players. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE]The 05 handcheck rule was necessary [B]because the rules were in favor of defenses from 2001-2004[/B], when record defensive numbers were recorded[/QUOTE]

But defense is better now because those rules were amended? Makes perfect sense. Take a bow. :applause:

And let it be known

All I'm saying is teamwork is required a heck of a lot more nowadays to win compared to previous eras

No one is questioning Jordan's ability to play today

You can't get away with relying on one player these days, and hope for success

This era is not kind to individual production. This is the truth.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Yup, videos made by random nobodies on youtube = legit evidence. But empirical data from the company the NBA employs to track every single play during the season/postseason = Don's bullshit.

Story checks out.



Except defenders not being able to stay in the paint for more than 2.9 seconds or physically impede offensive players. :confusedshrug:



But defense is better now because those rules were amended? Makes perfect sense. Take a bow. :applause:[/QUOTE]
The 3 seconds rule has always been around. It was just listed under the illegal defense rules.

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin]The 3 seconds rule has always been around. It was just listed under the illegal defense rules.[/QUOTE]

Not in the paint.

But we've been down this road already. You know I've got the goods to make it so you can't show your face in this thread again like before with the same idea threads you started a few days ago. Why are you making me do this to you? :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Yup, videos made by random nobodies on youtube = legit evidence. But empirical data from the company the NBA employs to track every single play during the season/postseason = Don's bullshit.

Story checks out.[/QUOTE]

So no info on whether or not that only tracks full zones or partial ones too? Shades on one player?

[QUOTE=Dro]Answer this basic question or your thread is a fail. If zone is so effective, why don't teams play it more than 10% of the time? Simple question...[/QUOTE]
And it would be great if he could explain this ditty too...

[quote]The league overall actually scored more efficiently against zone than man last season, according to Synergy."[/quote]

I'll be on later to destroy you don

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]So no info on whether or not that only tracks full zones or partial ones too? Shades on one player?[/QUOTE]

I don't think Synergy keeps a 'shading' stat :oldlol: but you could probably research that on your own, contact them, etc. Here are the facts (and a specific team anecdote) according to their tracking of zone defenses being played in the NBA:

[INDENT][B]According to Synergy Sports tracking, the Warriors have seen zone a mere 79 possessions this season, [COLOR="Red"]1.5 percent of their total 6,031 possessions[/COLOR]. Golden State averages 0.94 points per play overall -- 10th-best in the league -- [COLOR="Red"]but that number jumps up a bit to 0.962 points per play against zone, and the Warriors have scorched opponents by shooting 50 percent against it.[/COLOR][/B]

...

According to Synergy Sports data, the Celtics rank sixth in the NBA in allowing a mere 0.898 points per play (a number that's dropped steadily since Bradley returned to the lineup). Boston actually owns the fourth-best man-to-man defense, allowing 0.846 points per play in half-court sets. But the Celtics are not afraid to throw the zone changeup and with good reason: Despite [B][COLOR="Red"]the fact that zone has accounted for a mere 145 possessions (2.7 percent of total plays[/COLOR][/B]), the Celtics have allowed only 0.786 points per play and opponents have shot 35.6 percent against it.

Teams eventually sniff out the zone and make changes to bust it.

[url]http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/9006908/boston-celtics-clamped-golden-state-warriors-employing-rare-zone-defense[/url][/INDENT]

^Only makes sense that a team loaded with shooters would rarely see zone and would scorch it when faced against it. Not like this is middle school :lol

I think the highest recorded % of zone use in the past 6 seasons was Dallas in '11 with 10.5% of their possessions.

[QUOTE]I'll be on later to destroy you don[/QUOTE]

[IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.mandatory.com/media/2013/02/michael-jordan-laughing.gif#laughing%20my%20ass%20off%20gifs%20320x240[/IMG]

Any time you're ready bitch.

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]Also shows Danny Ainge and Walton guarding him one on one, no help (which is a joke) because of no zone / illegal defense.

MJ able to convert over Danny Ainge one on one with no help D allowed?....."mind blown"[/QUOTE]
Dennis Johnson covered him most of the game but then again I'm sure you have no idea who he is.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]I don't think Synergy keeps a 'shading' stat :oldlol: but you could probably research that on your own, contact them, etc. Here are the facts (and a specific team anecdote) according to their tracking of zone defenses being played in the NBA:

[INDENT][B]According to Synergy Sports tracking, the Warriors have seen zone a mere 79 possessions this season, [COLOR="Red"]1.5 percent of their total 6,031 possessions[/COLOR]. Golden State averages 0.94 points per play overall -- 10th-best in the league -- [COLOR="Red"]but that number jumps up a bit to 0.962 points per play against zone, and the Warriors have scorched opponents by shooting 50 percent against it.[/COLOR][/B]

...

According to Synergy Sports data, the Celtics rank sixth in the NBA in allowing a mere 0.898 points per play (a number that's dropped steadily since Bradley returned to the lineup). Boston actually owns the fourth-best man-to-man defense, allowing 0.846 points per play in half-court sets. But the Celtics are not afraid to throw the zone changeup and with good reason: Despite [B][COLOR="Red"]the fact that zone has accounted for a mere 145 possessions (2.7 percent of total plays[/COLOR][/B]), the Celtics have allowed only 0.786 points per play and opponents have shot 35.6 percent against it.

Teams eventually sniff out the zone and make changes to bust it.

[url]http://espn.go.com/boston/nba/story/_/id/9006908/boston-celtics-clamped-golden-state-warriors-employing-rare-zone-defense[/url][/INDENT]

^Only makes sense that a team loaded with shooters would rarely see zone and would scorch it when faced against it. Not like this is middle school :lol

I think the highest recorded % of zone use in the past 6 seasons was Dallas in '11 with 10.5% of their possessions.



[IMG]http://www.blogcdn.com/www.mandatory.com/media/2013/02/michael-jordan-laughing.gif#laughing%20my%20ass%20off%20gifs%20320x240[/IMG]

Any time you're ready bitch.[/QUOTE]
So basically what you're saying is it only accounts for full zone. Almost makes it pointless to post. The other elements are more common.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]So basically what you're saying is it only accounts for full zone. Almost makes it pointless to post. The other elements are more common.[/QUOTE]

No, what I'm saying is they don't keep a 'shading' stat. :oldlol:

I'll tell you what. Show me an example of 'shading' either in video or gif form from a game from the post 'zone' era and we'll move on from there. Deal with any misconception you or the other misguided pups may have. :cheers:

Wow defense really are tougher back then.

Tougher for the defender.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]No, what I'm saying is they don't keep a 'shading' stat. :oldlol:

I'll tell you what. Show me an example of 'shading' either in video or gif form from a game from the post 'zone' era and we'll move on from there. Deal with any misconception you or the other misguided pups may have. :cheers:[/QUOTE]
There were plenty of examples in the video bro of a defender playing centerfield behind another man defender. :no: don't come at me like that, I asked a civil question. Put ur big boy pants on we're adults here.

[QUOTE=sdot_thadon]There were plenty of examples in the video bro of a defender playing centerfield behind another man defender. :no: don't come at me like that, I asked a civil question. Put ur big boy pants on we're adults here.[/QUOTE]

I'm wearing sweatpants right now nigguh, shit is serious.

[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/4-01-2015/IsE872.gif[/IMG]

Knicks throwing shade at the GOAT here? :confusedshrug:

That YouTuber is not unlike that guy who used to make the "Kobe vs zone defenses" guy who was making up phrases like Zone Sandwich and what not and cherry picked a bunch o 1 on 3 and 1 on 5 sequences of Kobe and tried to assert that that was basically what Kobe faces/faced his entire career and that Jordan only played 1 on 1.

The tin foil hat basketball stans are easy to spot. The video in the OP is created by a tin foil hat fan who despises MJ.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]That YouTuber is not unlike that guy who used to make the "Kobe vs zone defenses" guy who was making up phrases like Zone Sandwich and what not and cherry picked a bunch o 1 on 3 and 1 on 5 sequences of Kobe and tried to assert that that was basically what Kobe faces/faced his entire career and that Jordan only played 1 on 1.[/QUOTE]

This. Although I haven't had a good zone sandwich in a while. Sprinkle in a little shading and you've got yourself a helluva lunch.

[QUOTE]The tin foil hat basketball stans are easy to spot. The video in the OP is created by a tin foil hat fan who despises MJ.[/QUOTE]

Dudes don't know the basics of basketball, it's really amusing to watch. If you want to see what actual zones look like, you watch the NCAA not the NBA :lol

[QUOTE=Im Still Ballin]

The 05 handcheck rule was necessary because the rules were in favor of defenses from 2001-2004, when record defensive numbers were recorded[/QUOTE]

MJ played in that period and when he was healthy was putting up 20+ppg with a tad below 45%clip. And this was mJ out of shape, worn down knees and a busted j (which was basically his only offensive move in his arsenal). And even still put up some amazing performances throughout those two seasons, check the record books. But a prime mj, a great off the ball and mid range shooter, wouldn't adapt to today's defenses....Mj wouldn't even miss a beat