Prime MJ was the greatest perimeter defender of all time

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[SIZE="4"]Prime MJ was the greatest perimeter defender of all time.. People just can't wrap their head around him being the best at so many things.. Pippen was never this quick on the perimeter - that's true guard quickness.. In b4 someone posts some inferior, slower Pippen shit... Show me where Pippen got 3+ stls in a season and 1.5+ blocks like MJ did twice... I'll wait..

Also, let's face it - Payton and Moncrief were NEVER as dynamic on the perimeter as MJ - MJ's length, quickness and athleticism was on another level from those guys.. We can SAY they were on prime MJ's level, but truthfully, we're just being nice and trying to find something else to talk about other than MJ - which I understand, but I still have to snap you guys back to reality.[/SIZE]

Chris Paul's perimeter defense > MJ's perimeter defense. Hold this salt.

[QUOTE=LoneyROY7]Chris Paul's perimeter defense > MJ's perimeter defense. Hold this salt.[/QUOTE]


this is not even remotely funny.

[QUOTE=dh144498]this is not even remotely funny.[/QUOTE]

I see someone's ass is still chapped from the beating CP put on that booty last night. :lol

I actually agree. Dude never took a play off defensively.

:lol :lol :lolWasn't even the best perimeter defender on his own team. Let alone all time.

[QUOTE=LoneyROY7]I see someone's ass is still chapped from the beating CP put on that booty last night. :lol[/QUOTE]

nah mayne. CP is legit. But better than Michael Jordan?

:lol
:roll:

[QUOTE=dh144498]nah mayne. CP is legit. But better than Michael Jordan?

:lol
:roll:[/QUOTE]

Dood, it's a 3ball thread. Logic is no longer a prerequisite.

[B]Hmmm... A great case can be definitely made.

To me, the greatest on-ball perimeter defender of all-time is Sidney Moncrief, I would take him over Jordan at that but MJ was also terrific at it and more impactful off-ball.
And while Moncrief was very good on offense (and on the boards), he obviously wasn't as good as MJ or even expending the same level of energy.

Sid would average around 1.5 steals per game, got a few blocks here and there but he's not close to MJ's numbers. Moncrief had some great blocks but wasn't close to the best shot-blocking guards, and he played straight lockdown D, didn't gamble much at all, most of his steals were coming off of playing ball-denial and the passing lanes.
Sidney could "anchor" a defense from the backcourt, was just an amazing on-ball perimeter defender, but his steals/blocks numbers couldn't **** with someone like Michael's.

My top3 SG GOAT defenders are Moncrief, Jordan and Michael Cooper.

Thing with Pippen is that he was also major off-ball, while he could shutdown his man any given night. And ofc that he couldn't guard those quick(er) guards quite like someone like Jordan would, but on the other hand he was able to guard a bigger variety of players more/better than Michael ever could.

My top5 perimeter defenders of all-time would probably be Moncrief, Pippen, Jordan, Payton and Rodman(more of a perimeter defender in his best years, although already great in the post). Then you have dudes like Frazier, Cooper, DJ, Bowen, Bobby Jones(more of a PF though)...
[/B]

I say MJ is the worst perimeter defender ever. Prove me wrong

He is :cheers:

3ball is a better defender than Mj could ever dream of being.:cheers:

Prime Kobe locked in is the best perimeter defender i've ever seen.

Those 5 gifs convinced the shit out of me

When locked in and focused its lebron. No way could Mj do a good job at guarding 4 positions. He wasnt big enough to guard a guy like melo or pau; but lebron is, Yet Ive also seen him shut down quick guys such as parker and mvp rose

[IMG]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqfVQo_uyGk[/IMG]

GOAT defense:bowdown: .

Who posted 3ball's bail? :facepalm

[QUOTE=G0ATbe][IMG]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqfVQo_uyGk[/IMG]

GOAT defense:bowdown: .[/QUOTE]

Title says prime, [B]PRIME[/B]... idiot.

It's easy to be called a great defender when you hardly get called for PF.

MJ's breakout season was 87-88 where he was called for 3.3 fouls per game. After that season, PF called against MJ went down every year except for 1993 and 96' when he was called for 2.4PF per game each year.

Just shows that Stern made sure the refs kept his cash cow on the floor and not in foul trouble to where he would be benched.

I just heard a FANTASTIC quote on PTI.

Mike Wilbon: "Don't you know that MJ dropped 63 points on the Celtics on this day 29 years ago?"

Tony K: "Yeah, I know that. Life has moved on."

Kornheiser summing up the response to every single one of 3ball's threads. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=LoneyROY7]I just heard a FANTASTIC quote on PTI.

Mike Wilbon: "Don't you know that MJ dropped 63 points on the Celtics on this day 29 years ago?"

Tony K: "Yeah, I know that. Life has moved on."

Kornheiser summing up the response to every single one of 3ball's threads. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

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hold this L, OP

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBu28UwDzps[/url]


can't touch this.

tied with MJ and GP for the most defensive 1st teams as well and most defensive teams among any guard in history.

Hey look everybody, 3ball is posting about MJ! :eek:

[QUOTE=ImKobe]hold this L, OP

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QBu28UwDzps[/url]


can't touch this.

tied with MJ and GP for the most defensive 1st teams as well and most defensive teams among any guard in history.[/QUOTE]

Even 3ball isn't this stupid. At least Jordan has a case for greatest perimeter defensive player of all time.

Definitely in the clutch. Westbrook reminded me of MJ last year in the playoffs when they needed him the most. It was so MJ like, and people have to understand that stuff like that makes him the goat. MJ that is.


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Damn. 5 seconds left in the game. Can you imagine watching that live?

[QUOTE=Hey Yo]It's easy to be called a great defender when you hardly get called for PF.

MJ's breakout season was 87-88 where he was called for 3.3 fouls per game. After that season, PF called against MJ went down every year except for 1993 and 96' when he was called for 2.4PF per game each year.

Just shows that Stern made sure the refs kept his cash cow on the floor and not in foul trouble to where he would be benched.[/QUOTE]

Mr. 1-5: 1.9 career PF/gm (2.3 peak)

GOAT: 2.6 PF/gm (3.6 peak, 3.3 DPOY year)

Stern doe. :durantunimpressed:

[QUOTE=jstern]Definitely in the clutch. Westbrook reminded me of MJ last year in the playoffs when they needed him the most. It was so MJ like, and people have to understand that stuff like that makes him the goat. MJ that is.


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Damn. 5 seconds left in the game. [b]Can you imagine watching that live?[/b][/QUOTE]


LOL, I did. This was the first Bulls game I ever watched. :rockon:

[QUOTE=jstern]Definitely in the clutch. Westbrook reminded me of MJ last year in the playoffs when they needed him the most. It was so MJ like, and people have to understand that stuff like that makes him the goat. MJ that is.


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Damn. 5 seconds left in the game. Can you imagine watching that live?[/QUOTE]

thats in the game? wow I saw another MJ gif of something similar.

Yeah, felt like Russ had multiple of those plays last year.. I remember the one against the Grizz, specifically.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Mr. 1-5: 1.9 career PF/gm (2.3 peak)

GOAT: 2.6 PF/gm (3.6 peak, 3.3 DPOY year)

Stern doe. :durantunimpressed:[/QUOTE]

damn, you fully transitioned to 1 of 5 now? :oldlol: 2013 don't even count no more.. **** 2 of 5, thats not embarrassing enough.

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]thats in the game? wow I saw another MJ gif of something similar.

Yeah, felt like Russ had multiple of those plays last year.. I remember the one against the Grizz, specifically.



damn, you fully transitioned to 1 of 5 now? :oldlol: 2013 don't even count no more.. **** 2 of 5, thats not embarrassing enough.[/QUOTE]

1-5 means he supposedly can guard 1-5 lol

[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater]damn, you fully transitioned to 1 of 5 now? :oldlol: 2013 don't even count no more.. **** 2 of 5, thats not embarrassing enough.[/QUOTE]

1 through 5. - means THROUGH. / means out of.

:facepalm

[QUOTE]Damn. 5 seconds left in the game. Can you imagine watching that live?[/QUOTE]

Etched in my brain forever.

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[QUOTE=jstern]

when they needed him the most... and people have to understand that stuff like that makes him the goat. MJ that is.


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Damn. 5 seconds left in the game. Can you imagine watching that live?

[/QUOTE]

[B]After MJ knocked the ball loose from Xavier the first time, MJ anticipated where the loose ball would land, so he was there before the ball even got there, just like he does here against Tom Chambers - GOAT instincts for the ball:[/B]


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[B]Simply the greatest defensive skills of any non-big man.[/B]
.

[QUOTE=jstern]Definitely in the clutch. Westbrook reminded me of MJ last year in the playoffs when they needed him the most. It was so MJ like, and people have to understand that stuff like that makes him the goat. MJ that is.


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Damn. 5 seconds left in the game. Can you imagine watching that live?[/QUOTE]

[B]Great, clutch steal/dunk... Bulls were already up by 5 though...

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YhNJN2RyRd0[/url][/B]

[QUOTE=nzahir]When locked in and focused its lebron. No way could Mj do a [B]good job at guarding 4 positions[/B]. He wasnt big enough to guard a guy like melo or pau; but lebron is, Yet Ive also seen him shut down quick guys such as parker and mvp rose[/QUOTE]
Neither is Lebron. Lebron is not stopping any true PF, yeah maybe these stretch 4's but he's not stopping a true PF like Zack Randolph, Tim Duncan, Aldridge, Griffin, etc....Lebron was awesome though in his prime, Ill give him that. I'm not sure if MJ is the greatest perimeter defender ever, thats a tough group.

He's up there with Bron

Pippen was.

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]1 through 5. - means THROUGH. / means out of.

:facepalm



Etched in my brain forever.

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For some reason this play didn't pop my mind. But perfect clutch example of why MJ is the GOAT. It's just his mind, goes into this extreme clutch focus.

[QUOTE=3ball][B]After MJ knocked the ball loose from Xavier the first time, MJ anticipated where the loose ball would land, so he was there before the ball even got there, just like he does here against Tom Chambers - GOAT instincts for the ball:[/B]


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[B]Simply the greatest defensive skills of any non-big man.[/B]
.[/QUOTE]

There's this other play where he anticipated a pass, almost as if he was telepathic and knew exactly where his opponent was going to pass it, I just can't even remember it. But it was very, very impressive. Should be a gif.

[QUOTE=sportjames23]LOL, I did. This was the first Bulls game I ever watched. :rockon:[/QUOTE]

Great 1st game.

[QUOTE=3ball][B]After MJ knocked the ball loose from Xavier the first time, MJ anticipated where the loose ball would land, so he was there before the ball even got there, just like he does here against Tom Chambers - GOAT instincts for the ball:[/B]


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[B]Simply the greatest defensive skills of any non-big man.[/B]
.[/QUOTE]

[B]Jordan had 4 steals and 2 blocks on that one; Bulls won the game, while MJ scored 39 points (on 11-29 shooting though), to go along with 9 rebounds, 5 assists and 0 TO's... Dale Ellis scored 34 points on 58% from the field though...
Point being that Jordan always had major defensive impact (what we're discussing here) but it wasn't like he was always shutting down his man left and right; plus Michael was obviously much needed for offense.

For example, adding to my first post here, for the 1985 EC 1st round, Moncrief "contained" Jordan better than the other way around. Not overlooking that MJ was a rookie and had worse teammates/coach. Still...
-> Jordan went from 28.2/6.5/5.9 on 51.5% from the field with 3.5 TO's in the RS to 29.3/5.8/8.5 on 43.6% FG, with 3.8 TO's, in 4 more minutes in the Playoffs
-> Moncrief went from 21.7/5.4/5.3 on 48.3/27.3 with 2.5 TO's in the regular-season to 26.5/4.5/4.8 on 54.9/40.0, with only 1.8 TO's, in 4.5 more minutes in the PS
...
Bulls lost 3-1, and also adding to my previous post Michael had a considerably bigger amount of steals/blocks than Sidney.

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=312018[/url]

Anyways, MJ was just a great off-ball defender, while also great on-ball... Making him one of the very best guard/perimeter defenders ever.
One could make a great case about him being the GOAT perimeter defender... Although I won't say that.
[/B]

[QUOTE=ralph_i_el]I say MJ is the worst perimeter defender ever. Prove me wrong[/QUOTE]
87 DPOY :confusedshrug:

Yes MJ was a GOAT defender to go along with his GOAT offensive skill set but OP, serious question, can you lay off the MJ jockriding shtick a couple of months, until after the Finals, for example? This coming from an MJ fan, enjoy the '15 Bulls run to the Finals, get in the championship cruise, dawg.

?[QUOTE=Hey Yo]It's easy to be called a great defender when you hardly get called for PF.

MJ's breakout season was 87-88 where he was called for 3.3 fouls per game. After that season, PF called against MJ went down every year except for 1993 and 96' when he was called for 2.4PF per game each year.

Just shows that Stern made sure the refs kept his cash cow on the floor and not in foul trouble to where he would be benched.[/QUOTE]
Now tell me how many fouls per game Lebron averages...I haven't even looked but you strategically left that out........Actually just looked it up, Lebron averages 1.9 fpg for his career...Guess he's an overrated defender too right?:rolleyes:

[QUOTE=jstern]

There's this other play where he anticipated a pass, almost as if he was telepathic and knew exactly where his opponent was going to pass it, I just can't even remember it. But it was very, very impressive. [B][SIZE="3"]Should be a gif[/SIZE][/B].

[/QUOTE]
Not sure exactly what one you are talking about - it might be one of the plays in these two three-minute clips that show defensive highlights in succession.

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCbp-e7e100&t=33m08s[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2gCMWuCdsGQ&t=15m46s[/url]


btw, mj was probably the best blocker of center's shots... he blocked shaq, hakeem, robinson, ewing SOOOO many times.. that's why he's one of the best shot-blocking wing players ever - the only player to ever record 200 steals and 100 blocks in a season.. he averaged 1.5 and 1.6 blocks in 87' and 88'.