MJ is the most double-teamed player of all time, besides Wilt

[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-24-2015/QvXF8J.gif[/IMG]


[B]During the Bulls-Pistons series, the Pistons' 4th quarter policy was to double-team MJ every single time he touched the ball.. Here's an examle from Game 6 of 1989 ECF, starting at the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4W_0I82B18&t=1h21m11s]9 minute mark[/url] - MJ is double-teamed 10 of 13 times he touched the ball to finish out the game.. The 3 times he didn't get doubled were because he shot the ball immediately - here's all 10 double-teams shown in gifs:[/B]

[INDENT][url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703590&postcount=88[/url][/INDENT]



[B]Here's a video of MJ against Atlanta - he's double-teamed 12 of 13 possessions from the 6:40 mark to the 8:40 mark - [I][COLOR="DarkRed"]the consecutive double-teams are shown in rapid succession[/COLOR][/I]:[/B]

[INDENT][url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLDGm8pV6uU&t=6m40s[/url][/INDENT]



[B]The youtube channel "[COLOR="Red"]Nobody Touches Jordan[/COLOR]" did a video of Payton guarding MJ in Game 4 of 1996 Finals (link [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgFWyLRNsGk]here[/url]) - MJ was doubled exactly 10 of the 20 times he caught the ball with Payton guarding - all 10 double-teams are shown if gifs here:[/B]

[INDENT][url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11792377&postcount=161[/url][/INDENT]



[B]Here's the New York Times on Jordan, 1987:[/B]

[INDENT][I]"Last season, Jordan had to overcome the harrassment of zone traps and double-triple teaming to average 37.1 points a game."[/I]

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2s9_GKFNL9E&t=0m49s[/url][/INDENT]



[B]Even on the post, MJ was double-teamed equally - here's a Shaq post video that shows him being doubled 33 of 62 times he caught the ball on the post (53%) compared to 52 of 103 in the MJ post video (50%).[/B]

[INDENT][I]SHAQ'S POST MOVES[/I]: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVxZs7dwCO8[/url]
[I]MJ'S POST MOVES[/I]: [url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MfSftZvpHJg[/url][/INDENT]


[I][COLOR="Navy"]However, MJ got doubled all over the court, not just on the post[/COLOR][/I] - MJ's danger from anywhere on the court resulted in teams often doubling him 10+ possessions in a row, as various videos in the OP showed.. This type of every-possession double teams for 10 consecutive possessions never happened for Shaq, not even in the 2000 Finals.



[B]By comparison, Lebron was doubled-teamed a TOTAL of 18 times in the entire Finals... So in comparison to MJ getting double-teamed 12 times in a single quarter, Lebron was doubled 3 times per game.[/B]

[INDENT][I]"Curry’s ability to guard one-on-one allowed the Warriors’ wing defenders to double-team LeBron James effectively. [COLOR="Blue"]When James was double-teamed, the Cavaliers scored 5 points on 2-of-18 shooting[/COLOR] (11 percent)".[/I]

[url]http://espn.go.com/blog/statsinfo/post/_/id/106718/iguodala-heads-all-playoff-defensive-team[/url][/INDENT]
.

Nah, kobe is the most double teamed player.

MJ just apeears to be doubled because he runs into multiple defenders.

[QUOTE=3ball][IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-24-2015/QvXF8J.gif[/IMG]


Here are gifs from the 1989 ECF, where the Pistons double-teamed MJ (full double-teams to get the ball out of his hands) on 10 of 13 times he touched the ball in the last 9 minutes of Game 6 - the 3 times he didn't get doubled were because he shot the ball immediately upon the catch:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703590&postcount=88[/url]


Here's the entire game, queued at the 9 min mark:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4W_0I82B18&t=1h21m11s[/url]


If you watch ANY Jordan video, you'll see he's doubled about half the time, and his scoring occurs while running away from a double team or otherwise avoiding/eluding a double (shown above, and more examples [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703595&postcount=91]here[/url]).. MJ is simply the most double-teamed player of all time, not named Wilt... This makes the gap between his stats and everyone else's even more impressive.[/QUOTE]


well, one question, were they hard doubles or soft doubles?

In soft doubles, the "double teamer" acts more as a free roamer, who doesent really try to force a steal or a jumpball. those are much easier to "score against" as in footage, both players above seemed to face those


not quite sure about this though, so i might be wrong.

[QUOTE=NZStreetBaller]

Nah, kobe is the most double teamed player.

[/QUOTE]
Show me a 5 minute stretch in ANY game where Kobe got doubled-teamed every time he caught the ball.

The bigger issue is whether a player's presence hurts or helps other players ability to play to their capacity, since that affects whether the [I]team[/I] can play to capacity..

In Lebron's case, there are stats which show his style doesn't foster as much teamwork as say, Jordan's style.. For example, it's statistical fact that the APG of Wade, Kyrie, Mo Williams, Love and Bosh all decreased significantly alongside Lebron, while Pippen's and other teammates increased alongside Jordan.. This is statistical [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385841]fact[/url].

Also, there was little or no increase in the Heat or Cavs' assist frequency during Lebron's time there, whereas the Bulls' assist frequency increased significantly during MJ's time - again, statistical [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=385446]fact[/url].. Off-ball players like MJ foster better teamwork - they always have low time of possession and are highly-assisted, so teammates literally have more assist opportunities and playmaking time.

[QUOTE=DavisIsMyUniBro]

[B]well, one question, were they hard doubles or soft doubles?
[/B]

[/QUOTE]

it says in the OP they were hard doubles, and the [url=http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/9-24-2015/QvXF8J.gif]gif[/url] in the OP is obviously a 'full' or 'hard' double:


[QUOTE=3ball]

Here are gifs from the 1989 ECF, where the Pistons double-teamed MJ ([B][SIZE="2"][COLOR="Red"]full double-teams to get the ball out of his hands[/COLOR][/SIZE][/B]) on 10 of 13 times he touched the ball in the last 9 minutes of Game 6 - the 3 times he didn't get doubled were because he shot the ball immediately upon the catch:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703590&postcount=88[/url]


Here's the entire game, queued at the 9 min mark:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4W_0I82B18&t=1h21m11s[/url]


If you watch ANY Jordan video, you'll see he's doubled about half the time, and his scoring occurs while running away from a double team or otherwise avoiding/eluding a double (shown above, and more examples [url=http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703595&postcount=91]here[/url]).. MJ is simply the most double-teamed player of all time, not named Wilt... This makes the gap between his stats and everyone else's even more impressive.

[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=3ball]Show me a 5 minute stretch in ANY game where Kobe got doubled-teamed every time he caught the ball.

The OP shows you a stretch of 9 minutes where MJ got doubled 10 of 13 times he had the ball (FULL double-teams to get the ball out of his hands) - the 3 times he didn't get doubled were because he shot the ball immediately upon the catch.. Here are gifs of all 10 double teams and a link to the game, queued to the 9 min mark:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703590&postcount=88[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4W_0I82B18&t=1h21m11s[/url][/QUOTE]

2 things.

1, it didnt seem like he was doubled as much from before the 9 minute mark
2, yeah, theyw ere hard doubles, so this is very impressive. Despite that, I could contend that his playstyle might have helped him eluded double teams

Shaquille O'Neal

[QUOTE=DavisIsMyUniBro]

2 things.

1) it didnt seem like he was doubled as much before the 9 minute mark

[/QUOTE]
Right - the Pistons didn't turn on the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIY_4vIxGEE&t=22m49s]"Jordan Rules"[/url] and start doubling everytime until the 9 minute mark.

Before that - at the start of the 4th - MJ scored on Rodman twice and the Pistons took a timeout... After that timeout (around the 9 minute mark), they started double-teaming MJ every single time for the rest of the game... 10 out of 13 times they doubled him, and the 3 times they didn't was because MJ shot it immediately.

Again, all 10 double teams are shown here: [url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703590&postcount=88[/url]


[QUOTE=DavisIsMyUniBro]


[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/8-27-2015/ZQEqEe.gif[/IMG]


2) yeah, they were hard doubles, so this is very impressive. Despite that, I could contend that [B]his playstyle might have helped him eluded double teams[/B]


[/QUOTE]
Agreed - in the last 24 games of the 1989 season, Collins started MJ at point guard... In the playoffs, he returned MJ to shooting guard, but still had MJ run the point in the 4th.. Unfortunately, this ball-dominant style at the most crucial parts of the game allowed MJ to get doubled incessantly... It played into the "Jordan Rules" perfectly.

Collins should've had MJ playing off-ball like the first 3 quarters and catching it on the move or on the wing in a PRE-dribble, stationary position (the triple-threat position, seen above - notice how Rodman has no chance vs. MJ's triple-threat).. The lower dribble-time and overall time-of-possession of this style lowers the possibility that MJ can be doubled as often or in time to get the ball out of his hands.

It was a major blunder by Collins to have MJ play point in the 4th against the Jordan Rules - it allowed him to get doubled incessantly.. It's not like MJ is Lebron or something, where his bad 1-on-1 efficiency and midrange allow teams to let him go 1-on-1 all alone like Kerr did in the Finals... No way... MJ's 1-on-1 and midrange efficiency was elite - you couldn't leave him all alone against a single defender.
.

Actually statisticlly he's not close to being the most double teamed player of all time.

That's actually Shaq. Stats were released a couple years ago.

[QUOTE=NZStreetBaller]Nah, kobe is the most double teamed player.

MJ just apeears to be doubled because he runs into multiple defenders.[/QUOTE]




lol at you turn the other way around. It is kobe likes to run into multiple defenders or dribble too long to attract help defense. MJ always know how to dodge or makes the move before help defense comes

[quote=flpiii]

I'm not sure if you clicked the link, but it separates into contested and open shots. So you can compare apples with apples.

[/QUOTE]
Vantage's definition of "[I]contested[/I]" (within 3 feet with hands up) skews their data, because a much higher proportion of 2-pointers are shot with defenders DRAPED ALL OVER with significant physical contact, whereas that rarely happens or 3-pointers.

But yeah, I'm sure many 3-pointers are "[I]contested[/I]" based on Vantage's criteria of the defender being within 3 feet with hands-up.. :rolleyes: .. [I][COLOR="Navy"]But let's compare the proportion/frequency of fouls and AND1's on 2-pointers and 3-pointers - that will give us an idea of how much more heavily contested 2 pointers are.[/COLOR][/I]


[quote=flpiii]


But the article contains numerical proof that *contested* threes on a per shot basis are more valuable than *open* mid range shots (again, using the same definition of contested vs open for all shot types).



[/QUOTE]
The argument isn't whether 3-pointers are more efficient - everyone knows they provide an extra point... The point I'm making is that 2-point attempts such as paint and midrange shots have far heavier contests than 3-point attempts - 3-pointers are almost never attempted with the kind of physical contact or borderline AND1 situations that are [I]standard[/I] for 2-pointers.

Players have always been willing to take 2-pointers while enduring heavier contests than they'd be willing to endure for 3-pointers, which meant that the 2-point shooting eras didn't need to run as much offense to get quality looks as today's game.

The standard of settling for more heavily-contested 2-pointers in previous eras made pace faster than today's game, where teams must run more offense to get quality 3-point looks.

Most doubled perimeter player probs

[QUOTE=3ball]Show me a 5 minute stretch in ANY game where Kobe got doubled-teamed every time he caught the ball.

The OP shows you a stretch of 9 minutes where MJ got doubled 10 of 13 times he had the ball (FULL double-teams to get the ball out of his hands) - the 3 times he didn't get doubled were because he shot the ball immediately upon the catch.. Here are gifs of all 10 double teams and a link to the game, queued to the 9 min mark:

[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=11703590&postcount=88[/url]
[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j4W_0I82B18&t=1h21m11s[/url][/QUOTE]

You cant judge most double teamed player over an entire career by a 9 minute stretch..... btw you know that good off the ball movement especially in an equal opportunity offense can prevent double teaming from ever happening....

Not sure if MJ is THE most doubled player ever, but he's certainly the most doubled perimeter player ever hands down.

Only reason I hesitate stating he's the most double teamed player in general, is because it's easier to collapse defenders in the paint. Specially when the paint was more crowded.

And as already mentioned, MJ's style made it harder to double more than a big camping in the paint since he moved around often, passed and cut efficiently, and was simply too fast.

But when it comes to perimeter players, MJ by a good margin.

still waiting for that empirical evidence, OP

Wilt? Lol.

Where`s Shaq?

Fan boy thread like kernnetthgriffins's.

Some other guys that might be up there (all are probably top 10 in double teams you'd think):

Moses - Terrific scorer and rebounder but not the most willing passer at C.

Barkley - He on the other hand was a great passer but was finishing at the rim at Shaq/MJ levels.

Hakeem - After Sampson was traded, and without Lucas/Lloyd/Wiggins, he was doubled a ton.

[QUOTE=NZStreetBaller]You cant judge most double teamed player over an entire career by a 9 minute stretch..... [/QUOTE]
Again, point me to ONE 5 MINUTE STRETCH - it doesn't even have to be 9 minutes - where Kobe, Shaq or ANYONE is doubled-teamed every single time they catch the ball.. I'll wait

otherwise, take this L

Of course not. Illegal defense was a thing. Wtf you talking about Bruce? :oldlol:

Btw, doubles happened to Shaq literally all the time vs most teams.

[QUOTE=Horatio33]Shaquille O'Neal[/QUOTE]

Came to post this. But as far as perimeter players go it's easily MJ.

Probably the most doubled perimeter player ever. But big men were easily more doubled. Not even a comparison.

[QUOTE=andgar923]Not sure if MJ is THE most doubled player ever, but he's certainly the most doubled perimeter player ever hands down.

Only reason I hesitate stating he's the most double teamed player in general, is because it's easier to collapse defenders in the paint. Specially when the paint was more crowded.

And as already mentioned, MJ's style made it harder to double more than a big camping in the paint since he moved around often, passed and cut efficiently, and was simply too fast.

But when it comes to perimeter players, MJ by a good margin.[/QUOTE]

OP said MJ was the most doubled player not named Wilt. Perimeter for sure.

[QUOTE=3ball]EVERYONE IS BLINDLY SAYING THAT BIG MEN GET DOUBLED MORE, BUT SHOW ME WHERE YOU'VE SEEN A BIG MAN GET DOUBLED FOR 9 MINUTES EVERY TIME THEY CAUGHT THE BALL LIKE I SHOWED IN THE OP.

SHAQ GOT TONS OF SINGLE-COVERAGE, WHICH IS WHY HE AVERAGED 40 PPG IN VARIOUS PLAYOFFS SERIES - TEAMS HAD TO PICK THEIR POISON WITH THE LAKERS - DOUBLE SHAQ AND LET FISHER, FOX, HORRY GO CRAZY WITH THREES, OR PLAY HIM STRAIGHT UP... TEAMS OFTEN OPTED TO PLAY SHAQ STRAIGHT-UP AND HE WAS VIRTUALLY [U]NEVER[/U] DOUBLED EVERY SINGLE POSSESSION LIKE MJ... EVER... THE JORDAN RULES BASICALLY MEANT "[I]DOUBLE TEAM HIM EVERY TIME HE CATCHES IT[/I]"... NO BIG MAN EVER FACED THIS TYPE OF EVERY-SINGLE-POSSESSION FREQUENCY EXCEPT WILT.[/QUOTE]
You are [COLOR="Black"]f[/COLOR]ucking retarded. Seek help, kid.

[QUOTE=plowking]

Crock of shit. :oldlol:

The best Lebron is just as good as best Jordan.

The 5 years stretch of 09-13 Bron is just as good as Jordan's 89-93 stretch.

28/8/7 on 52% shooting vs 32/7/6 on 52% shooting.

Bron with a 30.4 PER during that time and 61% TS...
MJ with a 30.3 PER during that time and a 59% TS...

You acting as if he wouldn't be either the best or second best player in the league. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]
[B]Playoffs Per 100 Possession:[/B]

[url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1989-1993-sum:playoffs_per_poss][I]JORDAN 89'-93'[/I][/url]: 44.2 pts.. 8.6 reb... [I][COLOR="red"]8.8 ast[/COLOR][/I].. 3.0 stl.. 50.3 fg.. 58.1 ts.. 120 ORtg.. 30.0 PER
[url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2013-sum:playoffs_per_poss][I]LEBRON 09'-13'[/I][/url]: 36.5 pts. 11.5 reb.. [I][COLOR="red"]8.3 ast[/COLOR][/I].. 2.3 stl.. 49.3 fg.. 58.7 ts.. 118 ORtg.. 29.1 PER


[B]Per Game in Finals:[/B]

[I]MJ 91'-93'[/I]: 36.3 ppg.. 6.6 rpg.. 7.9 apg.. 2.0 spg.. 0.76.. bpg.. 52.6 fg.. 40.7 3 pt
[I]LEBRON 11'-13'[/I]: 24.7 ppg..

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hScvvOtBOi4&t=1m25s[/url]

[QUOTE=DonDadda59]Came to post this. But as far as perimeter players go it's easily MJ.[/QUOTE]
How could teams double Shaq more than MJ, when teams had to worry about Kobe and all the shooters (fisher, fox, horry)??.. Teams had to pick their poison against the Lakers - this is a fact, whereas opponents could just load up on MJ.

Due to Kobe and all the shooters, teams COULDN'T double-team Shaq every single possession - but they could against MJ, because MJ didn't have Kobe or a bunch of 3-point shooters.

Again, no one can show me a stretch where Shaq is double-teamed virtually every time he catches the ball - I've checked - such instances don't exist.. :confusedshrug:

[QUOTE=3ball]You're the one spouting a lie - teams COULDN'T double team Shaq every possession like teams could do MJ, because [I][COLOR="Navy"]teams had to pick their poison with the Lakers[/COLOR][/I]: double Shaq and make it easier for Kobe, while Fisher, Horry and Fox go crazy with threes, or play him straight up.. Otoh, opponents didn't have to pick their poison against the Bulls - they could just load up on MJ.

Teams opted to play Shaq straight up a lot - he virtually NEVER got doubled every single possession like MJ.. Ever.. Teams couldn't take that risk with Kobe on that team and all the shooters.. Otoh, the "Jordan Rules" meant "[I]double-team MJ every time he catches it[/I]" - no big man ever faced this type of every-single-possession frequency of double-teaming, except Wilt.

Everyone is blindly saying that big men get doubled more, but no one can show me where a big man got doubled for 9 minutes straight every time they caught the ball like I showed in the OP.[/QUOTE]
Seek help, dude. Seriously. You have a mental condition which needs to be addressed.

[QUOTE=PHILA][url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hScvvOtBOi4&t=1m25s[/url][/QUOTE]
You only posted a 4 minute stretch, where Shaq was doubled a total of 4 times and wasn't doubled at the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hScvvOtBOi4&t=4m07s]4:07[/url] mark, the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hScvvOtBOi4&t=4m53s]4:53[/url] mark, or the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hScvvOtBOi4&t=8m05s]8:05[/url] mark.

It's amazing how people post something for LESSER than what I posted, and then act like what they posted is meaningful - the OP showed a 9 minute stretch where MJ was doubled every time he caught the ball.. And you come back with a 4 minute stretch where Shaq is doubled only 4 times and not every time he had the ball.

Btw, your 1992 Jordan shot chart is inaccurate because it drastically overstates the number of isolations - you counted [I]every single[/I] drive he made as an isolation, even though many of his catch-and-go drives and other drives aren't isolations - [I]like, you had 1 category for his drives: isolations[/I].. That's a little lazy, just like you posting a clip of Shaq NOT getting doubled every time and for only 4 minutes.

[quote]Btw, your 1992 Jordan shot chart is inaccurate because it drastically overstates the number of isolations - you counted [I]every single[/I] drive he made as an isolation, even though a lot of his catch-and-go drives and other drives aren't isolations.. That's a little lazy, just like your posting of Shaq NOT getting doubled every single time and for only 4 minutes.[/quote]
Yes I was aware of that while compiling the data. But it was not as big a discrepancy as you may think. Jordan was certainly the greatest scorer ever on the move, and plays where he caught the ball and immediately went to work did not count as isolations. But the plays where he kept the ball for longer than a couple seconds (usually using a jab step) before shooting or driving against a half court defense was what I recorded as isolation play. However the shot charts and especially the playoff clutch data is accurate. There is no highlight bias at all with the [URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=322375"]clutch data[/URL]. That is his entire playoff career.

Even looking at Jordan only on [B]isolation jump shots[/B], he was still shooting over 53% on only 2.5 attempts per game.

[QUOTE=PHILA]

Yes I was aware of that while compiling the data. But it was not as big a discrepancy as you may think. Jordan was certainly the greatest scorer ever on the move, and [B]plays where he caught the ball and immediately went to work did not count as isolations.[/B] But the plays where he kept the ball for longer than a couple seconds (usually using a jab step) before shooting or driving against a half court defense was what I recorded as isolation play. However the shot chart and especially the playoff clutch data is accurate.

[/quote]
What category is the bolded above categorized under?

From what I can tell, you had 1 category for his drives: isolations

Nonetheless, other than the overstatement of his isolations, I appreciate your work and think it's stellar... I wish the NBA would pay guys to do that type of work for old footage so we have advanced stats for previous eras like we have for today's game.
.

[QUOTE=PHILA][url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hScvvOtBOi4&t=1m25s[/url][/QUOTE]

Bob Costas at 1:34...

They get it deep to O'neal...The Pacers hold a team meeting around him. :roll:

The entire Pacer's team literally converged on Shaq as if no other Laker was playing.

Also @ PHILA,

I think some time ago either you or Round Mound (I can't remember who) did a post regarding Barkley being double teamed so much. Was it you?

[QUOTE=jlip]Bob Costas at 1:34...

They get it deep to O'neal...The Pacers hold a team meeting around him. :roll:

The entire Pacer's team literally converged on Shaq as if no other Laker was playing.

Also @ PHILA,

I think some time ago either you or Round Mound (I can't remember who) did a post regarding Barkley being double teamed so much. Was it you?[/QUOTE]
The Shaq clip is only a 4 minute stretch, where Shaq was doubled a total of 4 times and wasn't doubled at the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hScvvOtBOi4&t=4m07s]4:07[/url] mark, the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hScvvOtBOi4&t=4m53s]4:53[/url] mark, or the [url=https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hScvvOtBOi4&t=8m05s]8:05[/url] mark.

This doesn't compare to the 9 minutes of incessant double-teaming MJ faced shown in the OP.. The reason Shaq wasn't doubled as much as MJ, is because [I]teams had to pick their poison against the Lakers[/I]: they could double-team Shaq, which opens it up for Kobe, along with three-pointers from Fisher, Horry and Fox - or play Shaq straight up and stay at home on Kobe/Horry/Fisher.. Otoh, opponents didn't have to pick their poison against the Bulls - they could just load up on MJ because he didn't have Kobe or a bunch of 3-point shooters.

Teams opted to play Shaq straight up a lot - he virtually NEVER got doubled every single possession like MJ.. Ever.. Teams couldn't take that risk with Kobe on that team and all the shooters.. Otoh, the "Jordan Rules" meant "[I]double-team MJ every time he catches it[/I]" - no big man ever faced this type of every-single-possession frequency of double-teaming, except Wilt.

Everyone is blindly saying that big men get doubled more, but no one can show me where a big man got doubled for 9 minutes straight every time they caught the ball like I showed in the OP.
.

[quote] What category is the bolded above categorized under?[/quote]
Depends on how his movement before getting the ball, for instance whether he [B]cut to the basket[/B], came [B]off a screen[/B] on the weakside, drove out of a [B]post up[/B] play, etc.

A couple of examples:

[URL="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUKuRxshqL8&t=1m5s"]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MUKuRxshqL8&t=1m5s[/URL]

For most other players would be a post up or isolation, but given how quickly he turned that corner this goes under the [B]Off Screen[/B] category. Keep an eye on Cartwright's screen that got Jordan the mismatch with Cadillac Anderson.


[URL="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDqJZ96hOBU&t=2m7s"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xDqJZ96hOBU&t=2m7s[/URL]

This goes under the [B]Isolation[/B] category even though it was a quick iso. Like the clip above, he starts off flashing for a quick look in the post, but when that is not available he comes off a screen for a quick isolation at the top of the key. I know Synergy would probably have plays like this as Off Screen instead of Isolation, so that may be something to keep in mind. That 1587 figure for total iso plays can be misleading if it is interpreted as Jordan being that much of a ball dominant figure. I would say the while Jordan was certainly shot dominant, he was not ball dominant to that extent. Phil Jackson took his offensive game to another level in 1990 with the traingle offense.



[B]The Jordan Rules: The Inside Story of Michael Jordan and the Chicago Bulls[/B] - Sam Smith

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/zKZqZbM.png[/IMG]

[quote]I think some time ago either you or Round Mound (I can't remember who) did a post regarding Barkley being double teamed so much. Was it you?[/quote]

Yes, Barkley with the Sixers is the one guy I have seen who basically commanded an instant double team just by touching the ball inside of the 3 point line. He loved attacking from the left wing. Even though I have seen critics who called him a ball stopper, the team impact data shows him as one of the offensive GOAT's.

Shaq was the most double-teamed player in modern history. Kareem and Wilt were more doubled in the past.

Jordan isn't even close.

[QUOTE=PHILA]Depends on how his movement before getting the ball, for instance whether he [B]cut to the basket[/B], came [B]off a screen[/B] on the weakside, drove out of a [B]post up[/B] play, etc.

[/QUOTE]
Again, you have 1 category for MJ's drives: isolations

That's wildly inaccurate, obviously, and a significant overstatement - there's no way all his drives are isolations, and to assume so is wrong and creates a significant error in the numbers.

[QUOTE=catch24]Shaq was the most double-teamed player in modern history. Kareem and Wilt were more doubled in the past.

Jordan isn't even close.[/QUOTE]
This.

Dude sits there all day watching ONLY Jordan highlights... maybe why his posts are ONLY about Jordan?

He knows nothing outside of Jordan and blatantly makes shit up to prop him. Kinda sad to see a guy use a pro athlete for attention that he's obviously lacking outside the internet...

[quote=PHILA]


[IMG]http://cdn.makeagif.com/media/7-06-2015/uAh_p8.gif[/IMG]


[B]Jordan on isolation jump shots, was shooting over 53%
[/B]

[/QUOTE]
MJ's 53% on isolation jumpers is a stark contrast from the 40% and 33% that Lebron shot on isolations in the regular season and playoffs, respectively, [I]and that included shots at the rim[/I], not just jumpers like MJ's 53% represented.

Lebron's 40% and 33% shooting on isolations in RS and PO ranked him 135th out of 315, and 35th out of 39, respectively.

That's how we know MJ could've won the 2015 Finals... He would've shot well over 50% in Lebron's shoes, given all the secluded isolations Lebron enjoyed where he was all alone on the strongside and faced an open paint - MJ never got isolations like that (seen above) where he had the entire strongside to himself AND and open paint - but Lebron enjoyed those kind of iso's for the entire series.

[quote=3ball]Again, you have 1 category for MJ's drives: isolations

That's wildly inaccurate, obviously, and a significant overstatement - there's no way all his drives are isolations, and to assume so is wrong and creates a significant error in the numbers.[/quote]
No those are just isolation drives. Quite a few of his drives also came out of the following plays: [B]Post Up[/B], [B]Off Screen[/B], [B]P&R Ball Handler[/B], [B]Cut To Basket[/B] and were recorded as such on the chart.