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[B]He never lost as the favorite, or even when it was 50/50 - he only lost as a heavy underdog.[/B]
[B]Otoh, Lebron loses as the favorite all the time: 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, 2011 Finals... and also when it's 50/50: 2014 Finals.
Therefore, Lebron's 2/6 and his other failures are legit, while MJ has a perfect playoff record (never losing when it's 50/50 or greater)[/B]
This is just the 234125 time I see this topic. Let see how many posts are necessary to bring the 1-9, 6-24, 81 and some other fantastic unbiased opinion to the thread.
[QUOTE=JonatanRey]This is just the 234125 time I see this topic. Let see how many posts are necessary to bring the 1-9, 6-24, 81 and some other fantastic unbiased opinion to the thread.[/QUOTE]
you've never seen this topic before stop lying.. this isn't about 1-9
it's about mj never losing as a favorite or when it was 50/50 - therefore he never really lost
while lebron, kobe and everyone else did lose when it was 50/50 or better - that makes them losers
3ball is like a pitbull. Absolutely relentless in going after these Bran Stans. Never giving up.
In '98 the Bulls were considered underdogs against the Jazz.
Make a new gimmick account, you'll get more attention, this one is played out now.
[QUOTE=3ball]He never lost as the favorite, or even when it was 50/50 - [B]he only lost as a heavy underdog.[/B]
Otoh, Lebron loses as the favorite all the time: 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, 2011 Finals... and also when it's 50/50: 2014 Finals.
[B]Therefore, Lebron's 2/6 and his other failures are legit[/B], while MJ has a perfect playoff record (never losing when it's 50/50 or greater[/QUOTE]
Are you really that retarded? I cant think someone with be such an imbecile to contradict himself three sentences later.
Since Lebron was the heavy underdog in 2007 as well.
[QUOTE=Andrei89]
Are you really that retarded? I cant think someone with be such an imbecile to contradict himself three sentences later.
Since Lebron was the heavy underdog in 2007 as well.
[/QUOTE]
Lebron loses [B]as the favorite[/B] all the time: 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, 2011 Finals... and also when it's 50/50: 2014 Finals.
Therefore, Lebron's 2/6 and his other failures are legit, while MJ has a perfect playoff record (never losing when it's 50/50 or his team is favorite)
[QUOTE=Quickening]Make a new gimmick account, you'll get more attention, this one is played out now.[/QUOTE]
this is like, my 3rd last thread.. seriously
95 Magic.
3ball throwin them truth bombs. :rockon:
[QUOTE=plowking]95 Magic.[/QUOTE]
While I have to say I feel like a lot of Jordan stans look to pretend that this series never happened and think that a quick "Jordan's rust" retort makes it moot, they were still taking on the number 1 seed in the East that year.
Where this gets interesting is when you realize that the Bulls were 17-4 with Jordan back in the lineup, so while Jordan was admittedly a slightly watered down version of himself, the team had shown no issues reintegrating him back into the fold and returning to their previous elite regular season form. The same regular season winning that leads LBJ detractors to get on him for losing in the playoffs with 60-win teams.
Jordan may not have lost as the "heavy favorite" in '95, but it was probably an example of a "50/50" deal.
Lebrons 8 series loss:
4 x finals loss
1 x ECF loss
3 x 2nd round loss
Jordans 7 series loss:
2 x ECF loss
2 x 2nd round loss
3 x 1st round loss (2 x swept 1st round)
One was coming up short very deep in the playoffs and one wasnt good enough for that and hence choked early....
Lebron > Jordan.
:cheers:
[QUOTE=3ball][B]He never lost as the favorite, or even when it was 50/50 - he only lost as a heavy underdog.[/B]
[B]Otoh, Lebron loses as the favorite all the time: 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, 2011 Finals... and also when it's 50/50: 2014 Finals.
Therefore, Lebron's 2/6 and his other failures are legit, while MJ has a perfect playoff record (never losing when it's 50/50 or greater)[/B][/QUOTE]
Okay...so all that means he wasn't that good as an underdog.
Frontrunner.
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]Okay...so all that means he wasn't that good as an underdog.
Frontrunner.[/QUOTE]
:applause: :applause: :applause:
[QUOTE=plowking]95 Magic.[/QUOTE]
:applause: :applause: :applause:
[QUOTE=3ball][B]He never lost as the favorite, or even when it was 50/50 - he only lost as a heavy underdog.[/B]
[B]Otoh, Lebron loses as the favorite all the time: 2009 ECF, 2010 ECSF, 2011 Finals... and also when it's 50/50: 2014 Finals.
Therefore, Lebron's 2/6 and his other failures are legit, while MJ has a perfect playoff record (never losing when it's 50/50 or greater)[/B][/QUOTE]
What was his record without pippen?
[img]http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0625/pg2_g_oneal_hardaway_412.jpg[/img]
[img]http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/05/51583848.jpg[/img]
[QUOTE=Sarcastic]3ball is like a pitbull. Absolutely relentless in going after these Bran Stans. Never giving up.[/QUOTE]
He really is good at turning MJ fans into MJ haters.
I don't buy for one second Chicago-Orlando in 95 wasn't at least considered 50/50. Sounds like another made up factoid by 3ball just to fellate his guy.
Whats interesting though is Jordan never losing as the overwhelming favorite. Like, he was never completely upset by an underdog a la Kobe to Detroit and LeBron to Dallas. One can definitely argue MJ won when he was supposed to.
1-9
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]Okay...so all that means he wasn't that good as an underdog.
Frontrunner.[/QUOTE]
this
MJ was good at winning with teams that would have won without him and incapable of making a team better than what it would have been without him
Zero impact player (ZIP)
MJ actually won 7 series in which his teams didn't have HCA. And as we all know, he never lost when he had HCA.
And even in 2 of his 6 finals, his opponents had HCA (1993 Suns and 1998 Jazz). Actually, in 1993, his teams didn't have HCA for both the ECF (Knicks) and Finals (aforementioned Suns).
[QUOTE=Trollsmasher]this
MJ was good at winning with teams that would have won without him and incapable of making a team better than what it would have been without him
Zero impact player (ZIP)[/QUOTE]
This. Bulls won 55 games without MJ. This is why he is overhyped. MJ is simply the result of perfect circumstances (goat coach, goat teammates ect.)
The 2014 finals weren't 50/50. San Antonio was favored.
Most of the heat LeBron gets should be from the 2011 finals. Inexcusable.
[QUOTE=TomBrady]The 2014 finals weren't 50/50. San Antonio was favored.
Most of the heat LeBron gets should be from the 2011 finals. Inexcusable.[/QUOTE]
If talking about playoffs in general I would say 2010 was pretty inexcusable as well. I'm a Celtics fan but I did not expect us to go through the Cavs as easily as we did. After the series LeBron fans are super quick to say "well look at his team! he had no one!" but going into the series the vast majority were picking the Cavs to win. LeBron looked like he gave up. Give the Celtics credit though because they played great, Rondo was out of his mind that series. When it comes down to it though LeBron was unable to step up as the favorite in the series.
I think that 2011 trumps because of where his collapse happened. Directly cost his team a championship.
[QUOTE=TomBrady]I think that 2011 trumps because of where his collapse happened. Directly cost his team a championship.[/QUOTE]
Agreed 100%. 2011 is by far Bron's biggest shortcoming and probably most embarrassing year as a player... I was just stating that he has had other times of falling short as a heavy favorite.
How about finals 2012 when Miami had Bosh injured and Wade on one bum knee?
[QUOTE=Nash]How about finals 2012 when Miami had Bosh injured and Wade on one bum knee?[/QUOTE]
Mf that doesn't change that he has had major shortcomings... No one said he hasn't had great performances as well. Argument invalid.
[QUOTE=Nash]How about finals 2012 when Miami had Bosh injured and Wade on one bum knee?[/QUOTE]
Not to mention if Harden would have played at even 60% of his capabilities that year in the finals the outcome could have been vastly different... As big as LeBron play in that series was a factor, Harden and Westbrooks lack of play was a huge factor as well.
My You Rest In Piss 3ball. You never play, or even touch basketball in your entire life. You are a F*cking Bum, and an imbecile.
[QUOTE=Lebron23]My You Rest In Piss 3ball. You never play, or even touch basketball in your entire life. You are a F*cking Bum, and an imbecile.[/QUOTE]
[IMG]https://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y445/pkloa/7a7e605b082669cf0a03712ca8bd1a25_zpspdpa1j51.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=Lebron23]My You Rest In Piss 3ball. You never play, or even touch basketball in your entire life. You are a F*cking Bum, and an imbecile.[/QUOTE]
:roll: :roll: :roll:
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[COLOR="blue"]In their respective primes, MJ averaged more assists in playoffs than Lebron, despite scoring 6.5 more ppg (on equal or better efficiency):[/COLOR]
[SIZE="2"][i]6-Year Prime - Per Game Playoffs:[/i][/SIZE]
[size="1"][url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_game][I]JORDAN 1988-1993[/I][/url]: 34.6 ppg.. 1.6 oreb.. 5.1 dreb.. [I][COLOR="darkred"]6.6 apg[/color][/i].. 2.3 stl.. 0.9 blk.. 50.5 fg.. 58.3 ts.. 120 ORtg
[url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2014-sum:playoffs_per_game][I]LEBRON 2009-2014[/I][/url]: 28.1 ppg.. 1.5 oreb.. 7.1 dreb.. [I][COLOR="darkred"]6.1 apg[/COLOR][/I].. 1.8 stl.. 0.9 bpg.. 50.4 fg.. 59.9 ts.. 118 ORtg
[SIZE="2"][i]6-Year Prime - Per 100 Possessions Playoffs:[/i][/SIZE]
[url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jordami01.html#1988-1993-sum:playoffs_per_poss][I]JORDAN 1988-1993[/I][/url]: 44.2 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 6.6 dreb.. [I][COLOR="darkred"]8.5 ast[/COLOR][/I].. 3.0 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.5 fg.. 58.3 ts.. 120 ORtg
[url=http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jamesle01.html#2009-2014-sum:playoffs_per_poss][I]LEBRON 2009-2014[/I][/url]: 37.1 pts.. 2.0 oreb.. 9.3 dreb.. [I][COLOR="darkred"]8.1 ast[/COLOR][/I].. 2.3 stl.. 1.2 blk.. 50.4 fg.. 59.9 ts.. 118 ORtg[/size]
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[QUOTE=Lebron23]
[img]http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2009/0625/pg2_g_oneal_hardaway_412.jpg[/img]
[/QUOTE]
[I]We're only considering seasons where MJ was with the team for a full season - seasons where he was playing another sport altogether for most of the year don't count.
[/I]
And the only reason the Magic won was due to Jordan's rust, as evidenced by his ridiculously low PER of 22.1 (same as his Wizard days), 109 ORtg (11 points less than his career average), and 0.167 ws/48 (barely half his career average of 0.274).
However, the most obvious evidence of Jordan's rust was his uncharacteristic TO's in the clutch.. MJ turned the ball over twice on final possessions in the Orlando series - he's only done that 1 other time in his entire career!!!.. Anyone who watched him in the clutch vs. Orlando realized he wasn't the same player.. Even his normal confident swagger was missing.. You were kind of scratching your head like, "is that the same guy?"
[QUOTE=3ball][I]We're only considering seasons where MJ was with the team for a full season - seasons where he was playing another sport altogether for most of the year don't count.
[/I]
And the only reason the Magic won was due to Jordan's rust, as evidenced by his ridiculously low PER of 22.1 (same as his Wizard days), 109 ORtg (11 points less than his career average), and 0.167 ws/48 (barely half his career average of 0.274).
However, the most obvious evidence of Jordan's rust was his uncharacteristic TO's in the clutch.. MJ turned the ball over twice on final possessions in the Orlando series - he's only done that 1 other time in his entire career!!!.. Anyone who watched him in the clutch vs. Orlando realized he wasn't the same player.. Even his normal confident swagger was missing.. You were kind of scratching your head like, "is that the same guy?"[/QUOTE]
Sounds like a monster excuse. Doesn't count....:facepalm this guy.
[QUOTE=dhsilv]He really is good at turning MJ fans into MJ haters.[/QUOTE]
for real. i'm losing more and more love for mj with every insecure post this **** makes.
[QUOTE=AirBonner]This. Bulls won 55 games without MJ. This is why he is overhyped. MJ is simply the result of perfect circumstances (goat coach, goat teammates ect.)[/QUOTE]
yet young bucks like these seem to put me back on an even keel.
[IMG]https://s3.amazonaws.com/rapgenius/puppets-on-strings.jpg[/IMG]
[QUOTE=tmacattack33]
[B][COLOR="Red"]Okay...so all that means he wasn't that good as an underdog.
[/COLOR][/B]
[/quote]
[B][size="3"][COLOR="Blue"]Bigger Overachievement[/COLOR]: Jordan's 1989 Playoff Run vs. Lebron's 2007[/size][/B]
Jordan's Bulls were 47-25 and the 6 seed.
Lebron's Cavs were 50-32 and the 2 seed.
1st Round Jordan: CLE...(#3 seed, 57-25, #2 ranked defense... 40.0.. 6.0.. 8.1.. 51.8% FG)
1st Round Lebron: WSH (#7 seed, 41-41, #28 ranked defense.. 27.0.. 8.5.. 7.5.. 42.5% FG)
2nd Round Jordan: NYK (#2 seed, 52-30, #10 ranked defense... 35.5.. 9.5.. 8.3.. 55.0% FG)
2nd Round Lebron: NJN (#6 seed, 41-41, #15 ranked defense... 24.7.. 7.3.. 8.5.. 42.3% FG)
Conf. Finals Jordan: DET (#1 seed, 62-30, #3 ranked defense... 30.0.. 5.5.. 6.5.. 46.0% FG)
Conf. Finals Lebron: DET (#1 seed, 53-29, #7 ranked defense... 25.7.. 9.1.. 8.5.. 44.9% FG)
[size="3"]NO COMPARISON[/size]
[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/YbKRJE9FoVLe8/giphy.gif[/IMG]