Dirk has played alongside 6 all stars, Lebron has had 11, Duncan 13, Kobe 15

So Duncan, Kobe, and lebron had far better supporting casts yet the Almighty got it done with half the talent.

[url]http://thesmokingcuban.com/2016/02/12/lack-of-all-star-talent-around-dirk-nowitzki-further-evidence-of-his-greatness/[/url]

Lol because all the all-stars they played with were in their prime and on the same team at the same time right?

[QUOTE=Black and White]Lol because all the all-stars they played with were in their prime and on the same team at the same time right?[/QUOTE]

That list was all stars who played alongside them. In other words they were all stars at that exact time playing alongside those respective players.

[QUOTE=masonanddixon]That list was all stars who played alongside them. In other words they were all stars at that exact time playing alongside those respective players.[/QUOTE]

Right ok, so it makes sense that they've all won more than Dirk then right?

/Thread

So you're saying more all-stars = more rings?

[QUOTE=Black and White]Lol because all the all-stars they played with were in their prime and on the same team at the same time right?[/QUOTE]

If you do it like that, I bet Dirk is even lower.
Just by guessing...
[B]Dirk:[/B] Josh Howard for one year, 40 year old Kidd for a year, Steve Nash prePhoenix for 2 years? Who else has he played with?

The only guy in his prime he played with was Josh Howard, and that guy is almost forgotten about permanently from NBA history only a decade later.

[B]Kobe:[/B] Prime Shaq( a top 5 player all-time) for nearly a decade in his BEST years, and prime Gasol in his best years as well. Consistantly the top frontcourt in the NBA on his team... Also was always irrelevant without Phil "11 rings" Jackson coaching his team.

[B]LeBron[/B]: Prime Wade, prime Bosh, prime Irving, prime Love.... maybe in his first cleveland stint this guy would be on par with dirk, but shit not no more.

[B]Duncan:[/B] David Robinson(still good but not prime), prime Parker Ginobili Kawhi Leonard for entireity of careers, Popovich for entirity of career who is probably the best coach of all-time.

We all know 2011 was a fluke though

If Wade didnt choke Dirk would still be ringless

Who besides Shaq, Dwight, Pau, has Kobe played with who were All Stars with Lakers? Bynum?

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/all_star.html[/url]

[QUOTE=Cocaine80s]We all know 2011 was a fluke though

If Bron didnt choke Dirk would still be ringless[/QUOTE]


Fix'd for veracity.

[QUOTE=Cocaine80s]We all know 2011 was a fluke though

If Wade didnt choke Dirk would still be ringless[/QUOTE]

You Bron stans are trying to hard.

[QUOTE=Black and White]Right ok, so it makes sense that they've all won more than Dirk then right?

/Thread[/QUOTE]

2 rings in the East on a superteam=negative 3 rings out West

[QUOTE=Cocaine80s]We all know 2011 was a fluke though

If Wade didnt choke Dirk would still be ringless[/QUOTE]

Dallas creampied everyone that season and swept Miami in the regular season (holding Lebron to 31% shooting overall). That was no fluke. No sir.

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/all_star.html[/url]

Dirk has played with exactly two all-stars in the last 13 years.
Josh Howard(2006)
Jason Kidd(2010) age 36

And to be honest Josh Howard only made the team because the Mavericks almost won 70 games that year. The best regular season team almost always has 2-3 all-stars no matter what. Didn't they give the Hawks 4 last year?:roll:

[QUOTE=Funktion]Who besides Shaq, Dwight, Pau, has Kobe played with who were All Stars with Lakers? Bynum?

[url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/LAL/all_star.html[/url][/QUOTE]

Eddie Jones, NVE and Bynum. Can't think of anyone else without looking

Dirk supporting cast throughout the years:

Steve Nash
Jason Kidd
Michael Finley
Antwan Jamison
Antoine Walker
Tyson Chandler
Jason Terry
Josh Howard
Devin Harris
Shawn Marion
Peja Stojakovic
Jerry Stackhouse
Nick Van Exel
Juwan Howard

That's at least 14 All-star level players with a couple of future HOFs to boot.

[QUOTE=HeatFanSince88][url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DAL/all_star.html[/url]

Dirk has played with exactly two all-stars in the last 13 years.
Josh Howard(2006)
Jason Kidd(2010) age 36

And to be honest Josh Howard only made the team because the Mavericks almost won 70 games that year. The best regular season team almost always has 2-3 all-stars no matter what. Didn't they give the Hawks 4 last year?:roll:[/QUOTE]


so much this.

and illegalD you little ghetto slut. stfu and eat kobes dick you uneducated piece of crap

It's funny how 1 ring made Dirk from a widely recognized choking, jump shooting European to a "legend". He's the same guy that got upset by an 8th seed in the first round and lost year after year afer year in the playoffs despite talented cast around him.

in fact you just have nash (before 2004) josh howard (2007, as a replacement, just because mavs won 67 games) and kidd (2010) who were selected for an AS appearence during Dirks tenure. kidd was already 38 in 2010.

[QUOTE=pastis]in fact you just have nash (before 2004) josh howard (2007, as a replacement, just because mavs won 67 games) and kidd (2010) who were selected for an AS appearence during Dirks tenure. kidd was already 38 in 2010.[/QUOTE]
Josh Howard completely balled out while Dirk choked out in that series against the Warriors.
And winning as the main cog with just a bunch of super role players only barely makes up for choking in the first round and not even being in the second round to receive his mvp.

Melo is the biggest chocker the world has ever seen since the fall of france in 1940

look at his teams the last years. cant even make the playoffs in the east. hahahaha 2x in a row (maybe three) while having a better or at least en equal roster as 38 year old dirk.

and do not talk to me anymore you little ghetto slut

op is a dumbfuvck

[QUOTE=pastis]Melo is the biggest chocker the world has ever seen since the fall of france in 1940

look at his teams the last years. cant even make the playoffs in the east. hahahaha 2x in a row (maybe three) while having a better or at least en equal roster as 38 year old dirk.

and do not talk to me anymore you little ghetto slut[/QUOTE]

melo isn't considered a top 25 player, and has had much worse supporting casts/coaches than Dirk. Everyone knows how Carlisle is on par with pop as a coach just hasn't had as much talent. Melo had that loser George Karl, and even less all star teammates than Dirk.

And Melo has never lost a series in which his team was heavily favored.

[QUOTE=MellowYellow]melo isn't considered a top 25 player, and has had much worse supporting casts/coaches than Dirk. Everyone knows how Carlisle is on par with pop as a coach just hasn't had as much talent. Melo had that loser George Karl, and even less all star teammates than Dirk.[/QUOTE]

HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH. compare Dirks supporting cast from 2004-2016 and with Melos. year by year. pls. you are so ridiculous

YEAR BY YEAR, make it. GO FOR IT

[QUOTE=pastis]HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAH. compare Dirks supporting cast from 2004-2016 and with Melos. year by year. pls. you are so ridiculous

YEAR BY YEAR, make it. GO FOR IT[/QUOTE]
In 09 they had similar rosters talent wise and who won? Melo whooped them Mavs up.

[QUOTE=MellowYellow]In 09 they had similar rosters talent wise and who won? Melo whooped them Mavs up.[/QUOTE]

Dirk was better though:

Melo: 30/6.8/3.4/2.2 .491 FG% .605 TS%
Dirk: 34.4/11.6/4 .534 FG% .66 TS%

[QUOTE=MellowYellow]In 09 they had similar rosters talent wise and who won? Melo whooped them Mavs up.[/QUOTE]

WHAT? a similar roster talent wise? :lol :lol


Denver:

Andersen
Carmelo
Billups,
Nene
Kenyon Martin
JR smith

Dallas:

Dirk
Terry
Kidd
JJ Barea
Devean george (starting)
Kidd
Antoine wright (starting)
Dampier (starting)
Diop
Marion

Dirk Nowitzki this series:

34.4 ppg/ 11.6 reb/4 ass/ 1 stl/1block on 54%/38.5%/91% and 66% TS

[QUOTE=HeatFanSince88]If you do it like that, I bet Dirk is even lower.
Just by guessing...
[B]Dirk:[/B] Josh Howard for one year, 40 year old Kidd for a year, Steve Nash prePhoenix for 2 years? Who else has he played with?

The only guy in his prime he played with was Josh Howard, and that guy is almost forgotten about permanently from NBA history only a decade later.

[B]Kobe:[/B] Prime Shaq( a top 5 player all-time) for nearly a decade in his BEST years, and prime Gasol in his best years as well. Consistantly the top frontcourt in the NBA on his team... Also was always irrelevant without Phil "11 rings" Jackson coaching his team.

[B]LeBron[/B]: Prime Wade, prime Bosh, prime Irving, prime Love.... maybe in his first cleveland stint this guy would be on par with dirk, but shit not no more.

[B]Duncan:[/B] David Robinson(still good but not prime), prime Parker Ginobili Kawhi Leonard for entireity of careers, Popovich for entirity of career who is probably the best coach of all-time.[/QUOTE]

Mo Williams was an all star

[QUOTE=pastis]WHAT? a similar roster talent wise? :lol :lol


Denver:

Andersen
Carmelo
Billups,
Nene
Kenyon Martin
JR smith

Dallas:

Dirk
Terry
Kidd
JJ Barea
Devean george (starting)
Kidd
Antoine wright (starting)
Dampier (starting)
Diop
Marion

Dirk Nowitzki this series:

34.4 ppg/ 11.6 reb/4 ass/ 1 stl/1block on 54%/38.5%/91% and 66% TS[/QUOTE]

going down the line
kidd = billups
terry > jr
nene > dampier
k-mart = bass
barea > anthony carter
howard = andersen
antoine wright > dahntay jones

[IMG]http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/y%20NBA%20etc/Eddie%20Jones/All%20Star%20Game/677a0e76.jpg~original[/IMG]

@ MellowYellow: where is carmelo?

[IMG]http://cdn.static-economist.com/sites/default/files/imagecache/original-size/images/2015/12/blogs/game-theory/20151205_woc333.png[/IMG]

[IMG]https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CKX66I5UMAARHNs.png[/IMG]

[b]win shares career leader[/b] ([url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/...ws_career.html[/url])

Rank Player WS
1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 273.41
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 247.26
3. Karl Malone* 234.63
4. Michael Jordan* 214.02
5. John Stockton* 207.70
[b]6. Tim Duncan 204.79
7. Dirk Nowitzki 196.54
8. Kevin Garnett 191.50[/b]
9. Oscar Robertson* 189.21
10. LeBron James 187.33
11. Shaquille O'Neal 181.71
12. David Robinson* 178.67
13. Charles Barkley* 177.21
14. Reggie Miller* 174.40
[b]15. Kobe Bryant 172.73[/b]
16. Moses Malone* 167.07
17. Bill Russell* 163.51
18. Hakeem Olajuwon* 162.77
19. Jerry West* 162.58
20. Magic Johnson* 155.79
21. Paul Pierce 149.64
22. Robert Parish* 147.00
23. Larry Bird* 145.83
24. Gary Payton* 145.53
25. Ray Allen 145.08


Win Share per 48 minutes:



NBA
Rank Player WS/48
1. Michael Jordan* .2505
2. David Robinson* .2502
3. Wilt Chamberlain* .2480
[b]4. Chris Paul .2476[/b]
5. Neil Johnston* .2413
6. LeBron James .2396
7. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* .2284
8. Magic Johnson* .2249
9. Charles Barkley* .2163
10. Jerry West* .2134
11. Bob Pettit* .2128
[b]12. Kevin Durant .2122
13. Tim Duncan .2101[/b]
14. John Stockton* .2087
15. Shaquille O'Neal .2081
16. Oscar Robertson* .2069
17. Karl Malone* .2053
18. James Harden .2050
[b]19. Dirk Nowitzki .2035[/b]
[b]20. Larry Bird* .2032[/b]
21. Manu Ginobili .2016
22. Yao Ming .2001
23. Ed Macauley* .1964
[b]24. Stephen Curry .1929[/b]
25. Bill Russell* .1927
26. Dolph Schayes* .1922
27. Adrian Dantley* .1887
28. Sidney Moncrief .1873
29. Kevin Love .1838
30. Paul Arizin* .1833
31. Sam Jones* .1824
32. Harry Gallatin* .1824
[b]33. Kevin Garnett .1823[/b]
[b]34. Dwyane Wade .1807[/b]
35. Kevin McHale* .1802
36. Bailey Howell* .1799
37. Bill Sharman* .1782
38. George Yardley* .1780
39. Moses Malone* .1779
40. Julius Erving* .1778
41. Clyde Lovellette* .1777
42. Kevin Johnson .1777
43. Dan Issel* .1769
[b]44. Hakeem Olajuwon* .1767
45. Dwight Howard .1766[/b]
46. Walt Frazier* .1760
47. Reggie Miller* .1758
48. Chauncey Billups .1756
49. Bobby Jones .1752
50. Bob Lanier* .1751
51. Artis Gilmore* .1737
52. Clyde Drexler* .1734
[b]53. Kobe Bryant .1726[/b]
54. Larry Nance .1713
55. Vern Mikkelsen* .1699
[b]56. Pau Gasol .1696[/b]
57. Amar'e Stoudemire .1694

[b]defensive win shares career leader[/b] ([url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/..._career.html):[/url]

NBA
Rank Player DWS
1. Bill Russell* 133.64
[b]2. Tim Duncan 105.20[/b]
3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 94.49
4. Hakeem Olajuwon* 94.47
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 93.92
6. Karl Malone* 92.41
[b]7. Kevin Garnett 91.52[/b]
8. Elvin Hayes* 83.65
9. Patrick Ewing* 81.42
10. David Robinson* 80.14
11. Jason Kidd 75.14
12. John Havlicek* 74.09
13. Robert Parish* 72.98
14. Ben Wallace 70.58
15. Dikembe Mutombo* 68.53
16. Scottie Pippen* 67.29
17. Shaquille O'Neal 66.36
18. John Stockton* 64.93
19. Michael Jordan* 64.13
20. Wes Unseld* 64.11
21. Charles Oakley 63.34
22. Paul Pierce 62.31
23. Nate Thurmond* 62.23
24. Buck Williams 61.79
25. Shawn Marion 61.27
26. Jack Sikma 60.69
27. Dwight Howard 59.66
28. Larry Bird* 59.03
29. LeBron James 57.14
30. Rasheed Wallace 57.12
[b]31. Dirk Nowitzki 56.89[/b]
32. Dolph Schayes* 56.15
33. Clifford Robinson 55.89
34. Dave Cowens* 55.83
35. Marcus Camby 54.89
36. Dennis Rodman* 54.46
37. Moses Malone* 54.36
38. Charles Barkley* 53.91
39. Vlade Divac 52.90
40. Shawn Kemp 52.17
41. Paul Silas 51.74
[b]42. Kobe Bryant 50.53[/b]


PER career leader ([url]http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/per_career.html[/url])

NBA
Rank Player PER
1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 27.61
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.43
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Chris Paul 25.58
7. Bob Pettit* 25.35
8. Kevin Durant 24.92
[b]9. Dwyane Wade 24.81[/b]
10. Neil Johnston* 24.69
11. Charles Barkley* 24.63
12. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
[b]13. Tim Duncan 24.32[/b]
14. Magic Johnson* 24.11
15. Karl Malone* 23.90
16. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
17. Larry Bird* 23.50
18. Oscar Robertson* 23.17
[b]19. Dirk Nowitzki 23.14[/b]
20. Yao Ming 23.02
[b]21. Kobe Bryant 22.98

[QUOTE=MellowYellow]going down the line
kidd = billups
terry > jr
nene > dampier
k-mart = bass
barea > anthony carter
howard = andersen
antoine wright > dahntay jones[/QUOTE]

jr. smith series against mavs: 16.6 pts/3.4 reb/3.4 ass/1.5 stl on 50/38/68

Jason terry series agains nuggets: 15.2 pts/3.2 reb/2.4 ass/0.6 stls on 39/36/73

Kidd series agains nuggets: 12.8 pts/ 5.6reb/6.2 ass on 50/45/75

billups series aainst mavs: 21.6 pts/ 3.6 reb/ 7.2 ass on 50/43/90


edit: Josh howard shot 38% in that series as well

[QUOTE=pastis]jr. smith series against mavs: 16.6 pts/3.4 reb/3.4 ass/1.5 stl on 50/38/68

Jason terry series agains nuggets: 15.2 pts/3.2 reb/2.4 ass/0.6 stls on 39/36/73[/QUOTE]
ok Jr had a better series, but talent wise at that time they were very similar. Most would put 09 jet over 09 jr smith.

[QUOTE=MellowYellow]ok Jr had a better series, but talent wise at that time they were very similar.[/QUOTE]


look at kidd vs billups

That isn't debatable . Dirk had far worse supporting cast than those guys .

[QUOTE=MellowYellow]ok Jr had a better series, but talent wise at that time they were very similar. Most would put 09 jet over 09 jr smith.[/QUOTE]


terry is one of the worst wing defenders in his era. jr smith is 10x the defender terry ever was

[QUOTE=pastis]terry is one of the worst wing defenders in his era. jr smith is 10x the defender terry ever was[/QUOTE]
He is a 6th man, you don't need defense as a 6th man you need to fill it up. And Terry did that better than JR that year other than in that series.

But lets move on to recent rosters
13 -14 knicks
JR Smith 14/4/3 on 39%
Raymond Felton 10/6 on 39% (horrible d)
Tyson 9/10 on 59% injured for 6 weeks
Bargs 13/5 on 44% injured half the season (horrible d)
Amare 12/5 on 56% (horrible d)
Iman 7/4 on 38%

13-14 mavs
monta 19/6/4 on 45%
Jose 11/5 on 46% (horrible d)
Marion 10/7 on 48%
vince 12/3/3 on 41%
dalembert 12/12 on 57%
Wright 9/4 on 68%

[QUOTE=MellowYellow]But lets move on to recent rosters
13 -14 knicks
JR Smith 14/4/3 on 39%
Raymond Felton 10/6 on 39% (horrible d)
Tyson 9/10 on 59% injured for 6 weeks
Bargs 13/5 on 44% injured half the season (horrible d)
Amare 12/5 on 56% (horrible d)
Iman 7/4 on 38%

13-14 mavs
monta 19/6/4 on 45%
Jose 11/5 on 46% (horrible d)
Marion 12/7 on 48%
vince 12/3/3 on 41%
dalembert 12/12 on 57%
Wright 9/4 on 68%[/QUOTE]

marion, and especially monta and vince played horrible d as well. every statistic proves it from this year. marion was 2 month later in cleveland and barely played, because he sucked. marion was a pathetic defender the last couple of years. saying that, marion was one of the best defenders dirk played along with. never got any all-defense selection...what about camby and melo? what about chandler and melo?
dirk had a 50/40/90 season at 36 years old. reached the 8th place in the wild west.


and didnt you get the "mighty" dalembert the year after? what did you reach with him?

@mellowyellow: i posted at page 2 all significant raw and advanced stats. you just find all time greats. where is carmelo?

[QUOTE=pastis]marion, and especially monta and vince played horrible d as well. every statistic proves it from this year. marion was 2 month later in cleveland and barely played, because he sucked. marion was a pathetic defender the last couple of years. saying that, marion was one of the best defenders dirk played along with. never got any all-defense selection...what about camby and melo? what about chandler and melo?
dirk had a 50/40/90 season at 36 years old. reached the 8th place in the wild west.


and didnt you get the "mighty" dalembert the year after? what did you reach with him?

@mellowyellow: i posted at page 2 all significant raw and advanced stats. you just find all time greats. where is carmelo?[/QUOTE]
Monta was their best player dirk was a good 1b, it would be nice if the Knicks could get good players before they die. Amare handcuffed the Knicks and that's on management. Chandler was ok but his best years was 2011 with mavs. He regressed a lot and he isn't much of an option on offense.

[QUOTE=MellowYellow]Monta was their best player dirk was a good 1b, it would be nice if the Knicks could get good players before they die. Amare handcuffed the Knicks and that's on management. Chandler was ok but his best years was 2011 with mavs. He regressed a lot and he isn't much of an option on offense.[/QUOTE]

And IDK but their isn't really much difference between the 2.

Melo 25/6.6/3.1 on 45%
Dirk 22/7.9/2.6 on 47%