"Pippen was the best player in the world in 93, 94, 95" - Dennis Rodman

"and people didn't know that"


@3:45

[video=youtube;Uy4aEU5Swq4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uy4aEU5Swq4[/video]

You know 3ball is fcking DYING inside not being able to respond to this thread :oldlol:

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;13973709]3ball fcking DYING inside being unable to respond to this thread :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://media1.tenor.com/images/51ed3f4f2001697258609326a8a3cc8b/tenor.gif[/IMG]

Sounds about right

[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/3oGNDk2Ue1PbGr8qty/giphy.gif[/IMG]


[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;13973709]You know 3ball is fcking DYING inside not being able to respond to this thread :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/3oGNDk2Ue1PbGr8qty/giphy.gif[/IMG]


[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy;13973710][IMG]https://media1.tenor.com/images/51ed3f4f2001697258609326a8a3cc8b/tenor.gif[/IMG]

Sounds about right[/QUOTE]

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Umm no. Not even close in 1993. Wasn't even the best player at his own position that season. Old, post achilles tear Domonique Wilkins had a MONSTER season. Had a huge down year following the Olympics. Mike at 30 had to pick up his slack. Part of the reason they only won 57 games that year, besides pacing themselves.

1993

1) MJ
2) Barkley
3) Hakeem
4) Ewing
5) Nique

1994

1) Hakeem
2) D-Rob
3) IMO Shaq
4) Pippen
5) Ewing

1995

1) D-Rob
2) Hakeem
3) Shaq
4) K. Malone
5) Ewing

He's not even close in 1995 either. Hell, Mike came out of retirement / baseball for 1.75 years, and in only 17 games he CLEARLY was already the Bulls absolute best player.

Highest he EVER got on the MVP / Best Player ladder, is 3 or 4 depending how you rank him in the much praised 1994 season. Until that semis series against NY really exposed him yet again, in terms of being an alpha and a scorer. Much as it did the year prior, even with Jordan on the floor.

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH;13973726]Umm no. Not even close in 1993. Had a huge down year following the Olympics. Mike at 30 had to pick up his slack. Part of the reason they only won 57 games that year, besides pacing themselves.

1993

1) MJ
2) Barkley
3) Hakeem
4) Ewing
5) Nique

1994

1) Hakeem
2) D-Rob
3) IMO Shaq
4) Pippen
5) Ewing

1995

1) D-Rob
2) Hakeem
3) Shaq
4) K. Malone
5) Ewing

He's not even close in 1995 either. Hell, Mike came out of retirement / baseball for 1.75 years, and in only 17 games he CLEARLY was already the Bulls absolute best player.

Highest he EVER got on the MVP / Best Player ladder, is 3 or 4 depending how you rank him in the much praised 1994 season. Until that semis series against NY really exposed him yet again, in terms of being an alpha and a scorer. Much as it did the year prior, even with Jordan on the floor.[/QUOTE]

its just dennis rodmans opinion I dont think anyone would use his opinion as proof



the reason its so hilarious to me is because some posters tell us that pippen is a fake allstar.



meanwhile in reality he was top 3 in the world or top-5 at worst in the mid-90s.



[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/3oGNDk2Ue1PbGr8qty/giphy.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=red1;13973729]its just dennis rodmans opinion I dont think anyone would use his opinion as proof



the reason its so hilarious to me is because some posters tell us that pippen is a fake allstar.



meanwhile in reality he's top 3 in the world or top-5 at worst.



[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/3oGNDk2Ue1PbGr8qty/giphy.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

Have you seen his North Korea opinions? Or the 30 for 30 on him? Even in his prime he was a whacko ... it's gotten worse since retirement.

[QUOTE=red1;13973729]its just dennis rodmans opinion I dont think anyone would use his opinion as proof



the reason its so hilarious to me is because some posters tell us that pippen is a fake allstar.



meanwhile in reality he was top 3 in the world or top-5 at worst in the mid-90s.



[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/3oGNDk2Ue1PbGr8qty/giphy.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/3oGNDk2Ue1PbGr8qty/giphy.gif[/IMG]

He's right, Pippen was really that good. You just have these pathetic MJ stans trying to prop him down to make their hero look like he won with no help :facepalm

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH;13973735]Have you seen his North Korea opinions? Or the 30 for 30 on him? Even in his prime he was a whacko ... it's gotten worse since retirement.[/QUOTE]

not to mention dressing like a woman.



its still funny.

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[QUOTE=Docs Orders;13973737][IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/3oGNDk2Ue1PbGr8qty/giphy.gif[/IMG][/QUOTE]
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Pip was never the best in the world but he was absolutely an elite player. It's stupid to see how his legacy is attacked by the crazy MJ stan and exalted by the James psychophants with probably neither side having watched him play and just shooting talking points with no context about games they never saw.

[QUOTE=red1;13973729]the reason its so hilarious to me is because some posters tell us that pippen is a fake allstar. [/QUOTE]

Exactly.

SamuariSwish, Jordan himself said Pippen was the best player in the NBA in 1995.

For me Pippen peaked at 3rd in 94' behind Hakeem and Robinson. In 95' he fell to 4th as Shaq surpassed him. 96' 5th as MJ was back. 97' 5th again. 98', 92' he wasn't top 5 but was close. 91' top 10.

Yet we have people like 3ball saying he was Mo Williams or others saying Kyrie Irving was much better. He was a legitimate superstar, a MVP caliber player. He was similar to Ewing or Drexler at their peaks--players MJ stans love to tell us were great.

People don't realize how hard it is to be the best player. Guys like Barkley, K. Malone, KG, Dirk, West, Oscar, Isiah, Dr. J, D. Robinson all never got to #1. Many legends don't even get into the top 5. Reggie Miller or Dominique were never close to the top 5.

[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;13973780]Pip was never the best in the world but he was absolutely an elite player. It's stupid to see how his legacy is attacked by the crazy MJ stan and exalted by the James psychophants with probably neither side having watched him play and just shooting talking points with no context about games they never saw.[/QUOTE]

exactly. he was excellent - maybe not a first option scoring-wise but a GREAT piece for any team. and CERTAINLY not some challenged bumbling klutz like some people have literally told us.


[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;13973815]Exactly.

SamuariSwish, Jordan himself said Pippen was the best player in the NBA in 1995.

For me Pippen peaked at 3rd in 94' behind Hakeem and Robinson. In 95' he fell to 4th as Shaq surpassed him. 96' 5th as MJ was back. 97' 5th again. 98', 92' he wasn't top 5 but was close. 91' top 10.

Yet we have people like 3ball saying he was Mo Williams or others saying Kyrie Irving was much better. He was a legitimate superstar, a MVP caliber player. He was similar to Ewing or Drexler at their peaks--players MJ stans love to tell us were great.

People don't realize how hard it is to be the best player. Guys like Barkley, K. Malone, KG, Dirk, West, Oscar, Isiah, Dr. J, D. Robinson all never got to #1. Many legends don't even get into the top 5. Reggie Miller or Dominique were never close to the top 5.[/QUOTE]

pippen fam eating steak and caviar in 2020 :cheers:

Since everybody is basically quarantined with a lot of time on their hands, I guess I will add more fuel to the trolls' fire. This was Phil Jackson reflecting on how MJ's perception of Pippen changed after the Dream Team's performance in 1992.

[I][B]“Michael returned from the games raving about Scottie’s performance. Before the summer, Michael had regarded Pippen as the most talented member of his supporting cast. [U]But after watching him outplay Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Clyde Drexler, and other future Hall of Famers in Barcelona, Michael realized that Scottie was the best all-around player on what many consider the best basketball team ever assembled. Scottie, Michael had to admit, had even outshone him in several of the games.[/U]”[/B][/I]–Phil Jackson

[url]https://www.basketballnetwork.net/phil-jackson-remembers-a-moment-when-michael-jordan-realized-scottie-pippen-is-the-best-all-around-player-in-the-nba/[/url]

[QUOTE=jlip;13973844]Since everybody is basically quarantined with a lot of time on their hands, I guess I will add more fuel to the trolls' fire. This was Phil Jackson reflecting on how MJ's perception of Pippen changed after the Dream Team's performance in 1992.

[I][B]“Michael returned from the games raving about Scottie’s performance. Before the summer, Michael had regarded Pippen as the most talented member of his supporting cast. [U]But after watching him outplay Magic Johnson, John Stockton, Clyde Drexler, and other future Hall of Famers in Barcelona, Michael realized that Scottie was the best all-around player on what many consider the best basketball team ever assembled. Scottie, Michael had to admit, had even outshone him in several of the games.[/U]”[/B][/I]–Phil Jackson

[url]https://www.basketballnetwork.net/phil-jackson-remembers-a-moment-when-michael-jordan-realized-scottie-pippen-is-the-best-all-around-player-in-the-nba/[/url][/QUOTE]

thanks for posting this. I've watched many videos of the dream team and mike and scottie were extremely athletic and pippen was a beast.


this doesnt surprise me at all.


I've posted this a couple of times - its the way pippen shut down kukoc who was a very hyped overseas prospect:

[url]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j86xZvW5zJw[/url]

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;13973815]Exactly.

For me Pippen peaked at 3rd in 94' behind Hakeem and Robinson. In 95' he fell to 4th as Shaq surpassed him. 96' 5th as MJ was back. 97' 5th again. 98', 92' he wasn't top 5 but was close. 91' top 10.



[/QUOTE]

It's been interesting watching Pippen's legacy grow as the years go by. Back in the 90's when the 50 greatest players came out, the two players that people argued shouldn't be on the list was Shaq and Scottie, Shaq because he was only in his 4th year but Scottie because people didn't think highly of him. I lived in Chicago and we used to argue this on the local sports talk radio stations. We watched his migraine shenanians against Detroit and his refusing to enter a playoff game against the hated Knicks in '94. The fact is, he was the man in '94 and his leadership skills were questionable. He quit on not just the Bulls, but the city. None of us thought he was better than Grant Hill, and none of us thought he was better than Penny, at the time. Looking back at the entirety of his career it's turned out better than both Hill and Penny, but you have to understand how people viewed Pippen at that time. It wasn't great. He was a fantastic player, he deserves alot of credit, but you guys elevate him too much.

[QUOTE=red1;13973835]pippen fam eating steak and caviar in 2020 :cheers:[/QUOTE]

:cheers:

[QUOTE]This was Phil Jackson reflecting on how MJ's perception of Pippen changed after the Dream Team's performance in 1992.[/QUOTE]

Not only that, in 1995 he said Pippen was the best player in the NBA. When he said it I thought he was just praising a teammate but years later David Halberstam talked to MJ in an interview for the book and MJ said he meant what he said then.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;13973867]:cheers:



Not only that, in 1995 he said Pippen was the best player in the NBA. When he said it I thought he was just praising a teammate but years later David Halberstam talked to MJ in an interview for the book and MJ said he meant what he said then.[/QUOTE]

OMG he did? So he's not the goat after all??

[QUOTE=RogueBorg;13973864]It's been interesting watching Pippen's legacy grow as the years go by. Back in the 90's when the 50 greatest players came out, the two players that people argued shouldn't be on the list was Shaq and Scottie, Shaq because he was only in his 4th year but Scottie because people didn't think highly of him. I lived in Chicago and we used to argue this on the local sports talk radio stations. We watched his migraine shenanians against Detroit and his refusing to enter a playoff game against the hated Knicks in '94. The fact is, he was the man in '94 and his leadership skills were questionable. He quit on not just the Bulls, but the city. None of us thought he was better than Grant Hill, and none of us thought he was better than Penny, at the time. Looking back at the entirety of his career it's turned out better than both Hill and Penny, but you have to understand how people viewed Pippen at that time. It wasn't great. He was a fantastic player, he deserves alot of credit, but you guys elevate him too much.[/QUOTE]

Solid stuff here

[QUOTE=RogueBorg;13973864]you have to understand how people viewed Pippen at that time. It wasn't great. He was a fantastic player, he deserves alot of credit, but you guys elevate him too much.[/QUOTE]

It depends. I was a Pippen fan who grew up in the Philadelphia area so I saw him through a national lens. 1.8 second gate didn't help his image but he wasn't nationally harped on as I assume he was locally. He was a superstar, not the best player but definitely in the top 5 at his best. Hill got a lot of hype (he was supposed to be the next MJ) but remember Pippen was ahead of him in all-NBA in 95' and 96'. By 97' Hill was better but Pippen was 31 by then so not shocking.

The top 50 thing comes up but look at those lists now. Pippen consistently is in the top 20-30 range ahead of many of his peers. For instance, Slam Magazine's list in 2018 had Pippen 22nd. Wilkins was 41st, Payton 39th, Ewing 30th, Robinson 29th, Stockton 25th. Malone (21), Barkley (20) and obviously Hakeem and MJ were ahead of him.

I am not sure why Pippen is the one people keep pointing to about the top 50 when anyone who does those lists has him easily in it. I suspect a lot of these people are not putting pen to paper. Can anyone here name 50 players greater than him?

The leadership stuff is an odd critique, albeit a common one. His coaches and teammates all rave about his leadership. Who are we to say he sucked as a leader? We weren't in the locker room or in the huddle.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;13973815]Exactly.

SamuariSwish, Jordan himself said Pippen was the best player in the NBA in 1995.

For me Pippen peaked at 3rd in 94' behind Hakeem and Robinson. In 95' he fell to 4th as Shaq surpassed him. 96' 5th as MJ was back. 97' 5th again. 98', 92' he wasn't top 5 but was close. 91' top 10.

Yet we have people like 3ball saying he was Mo Williams or others saying Kyrie Irving was much better. He was a legitimate superstar, a MVP caliber player. He was similar to Ewing or Drexler at their peaks--players MJ stans love to tell us were great.

People don't realize how hard it is to be the best player. Guys like Barkley, K. Malone,[B] KG, Dirk[/B], West, Oscar, Isiah, [B]Dr. J, D. Robinson [/B][B]all never got to #1[/B]. Many legends don't even get into the top 5. Reggie Miller or Dominique were never close to the top 5.[/QUOTE]
You sure about that? Very arguable for all of these guys. I would imagine West may have been arguable as well, but I am less familiar with who was the best players during his career.

[QUOTE=LAL;13973871]OMG he did? So he's not the goat after all??[/QUOTE]

Yeah and in 95' he would be asked if he felt he was the best player in the NBA again and he would say he wasn't even the best player on his team.

I forgot to mention in 96' MJ was going around saying Pippen should be MVP.

I always take the public stuff with a grain of salt--it is smart to praise a teammate--but when it is confirmed privately (like the Dream Team quote posted earlier in this thread) or years later then you have to give it weight.

[QUOTE=RRR3;13973881]You sure about that? Very arguable for all of these guys. I would imagine West may have been arguable as well, but I am less familiar with who was the best players during his career.[/QUOTE]

West and Oscar never did because Wilt, Russell, or Kareem was always around. There was a "Hakeem versus Robinson" debate in 94' and 95' (most people said Hakeem but Robinson had a sizable contingent) but in retrospect no one is going to say Robinson was better than peak Hakeem.

Dirk, KG are in a similar boat as West and Oscar. Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, or LeBron were always around.

Dr. J had Kareem, Bird, Moses there blocking him.

You can apply the same to Harden or Curry. They have been a top 3-5 guys for years but one or more of LeBron, Durant, Giannis were always better.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;13973890]West and Oscar never did because Wilt, Russell, or Kareem was always around. There was a "Hakeem versus Robinson" debate in 94' and 95' (most people said Hakeem but Robinson had a sizable contingent) but in retrospect no one is going to say Robinson was better than peak Hakeem.

Dirk, KG are in a similar boat as West and Oscar. Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, or LeBron were always around.

Dr. J had Kareem, Bird, Moses there blocking him.

You can apply the same to Harden or Curry. They have been a top 3-5 guys for years but one or more of LeBron, Durant, Giannis were always better.[/QUOTE]
Who was better than KG in 2004? Didn't Dr. J have a case in 1981 or 1982? Didn't Dirk have a case in 2006 or 2007? You could easily argue Curry any year from 15-19.

[QUOTE=RRR3;13973896]Who was better than KG in 2004? Didn't Dr. J have a case in 1981 or 1982? Didn't Dirk have a case in 2006 or 2007? You could easily argue Curry any year from 15-19.[/QUOTE]

These guys weren't far behind so I suppose you could argue for any of them (in theory you could do the same for Pippen too, or Harden today). Duncan was the best player in 2004, Kobe in 2006 and 2007. Curry was never better than LeBron or Durant. For Dr. J in 81' Bird was better (although J won MVP) and arguably Kareem. In 82' Bird again and Moses.

MVP is different as we see these guys sometimes win those due to narratives, voter fatigue, etc. Harden won it in 2018. Did anyone think he was the best player, though?

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;13973915]These guys weren't far behind so I suppose you could argue for any of them (in theory you could do the same for Pippen too, or Harden today). Duncan was the best player in 2004, Kobe in 2006 and 2007. Curry was never better than LeBron or Durant. For Dr. J in 81' Bird was better (although J won MVP) and arguably Kareem. In 82' Bird again and Moses.

MVP is different as we see these guys sometimes win those due to narratives, voter fatigue, etc. Harden won it in 2018. Did anyone think he was the best player, though?[/QUOTE]
Imo KG was the best player in '04 & Dirk in 2011. I really don't see Duncan's argument at all over KG for that year

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;13973915]These guys weren't far behind so I suppose you could argue for any of them (in theory you could do the same for Pippen too, or Harden today). Duncan was the best player in 2004, Kobe in 2006 and 2007. Curry was never better than LeBron or Durant. For Dr. J in 81' Bird was better (although J won MVP) and arguably Kareem. In 82' Bird again and Moses.

MVP is different as we see these guys sometimes win those due to narratives, voter fatigue, etc. Harden won it in 2018. Did anyone think he was the best player, though?[/QUOTE]
Curry has been better than Durant for a while and he was absolutely better than LeBron in 2019. I generally see people ranking KG as the best in 2004 man, I don't remember seeing someone say Duncan before tbh.

[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;13973923]Imo KG was the best player in '04 & Dirk in 2011. I really don't see Duncan's argument at all over KG for that year[/QUOTE]
Dirk was absolutely not the best in 2011. LeBron clearly was, or else he wouldn't have got so much shit for choking. Dirk had the most successful year of course.

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;13973815]Exactly.

For me Pippen peaked at 3rd in 94' behind Hakeem and Robinson.[/quote]

Pippen might have peaked in 1994, but he wasn't better than Hakeem/Robinson/Shaq/Malone/Barkley. Especially if we're including postseason play. He was top ~6-8 in 1994. Top 10ish in 1995, as his scoring went down. The other players I mentioned, besides Barkley, were also playing better than the year before.

Pippen was a top 5 player in the 1996 regular-season, but trailed off a bit in the playoffs (39% shooting in the playoffs. ouch!) Overall? I'd say he was top 10 that year. Top 10 in 1997. And probably top 10 in 1998.

Giving him top 5 status for some of those years was a bit generous of you. Other than that, we mostly agree. I mean better THAT than going the 3ball route, thinking Pippen was Derek Fisher :oldlol:

[QUOTE=RRR3;13973925]Dirk was absolutely not the best in 2011. LeBron clearly was, or else he wouldn't have got so much shit for choking. Dirk had the most successful year of course.[/QUOTE]

Who was the best player in 2016?

See, the best player still has to perform best.

LeBron and Dirk got an equal share of playoff time, 4 rounds, and Dirk outperformed him. He was better, literally.

[QUOTE=SamuraiSWISH;13973726]Umm no. Not even close in 1993. Wasn't even the best player at his own position that season. Old, post achilles tear Domonique Wilkins had a MONSTER season. Had a huge down year following the Olympics. Mike at 30 had to pick up his slack. Part of the reason they only won 57 games that year, besides pacing themselves.

1993

1) MJ
2) Barkley
3) Hakeem
4) Ewing
5) Nique

1994

1) Hakeem
2) D-Rob
3) IMO Shaq
4) Pippen
5) Ewing

1995

1) D-Rob
2) Hakeem
3) Shaq
4) K. Malone
5) Ewing

He's not even close in 1995 either. Hell, Mike came out of retirement / baseball for 1.75 years, and in only 17 games he CLEARLY was already the Bulls absolute best player.

Highest he EVER got on the MVP / Best Player ladder, is 3 or 4 depending how you rank him in the much praised 1994 season. Until that semis series against NY really exposed him yet again, in terms of being an alpha and a scorer. Much as it did the year prior, even with Jordan on the floor.[/QUOTE]

This. You have to have as much drugs in your veins as rodman to actually think this. Pip was definitely one of the best those years though and mj was definitely lucky to have him.

Pippen from 1994-95 is Kawhi Levrk without the load management.

[QUOTE=Lebron23;13973946]Pippen from 1994-95 is Kawhi Levrk without the load management.[/QUOTE]

What's wrong with you bronsexuals? It's amazing how you all take pride in lying and stupidity.

[QUOTE=Lebron23;13973946]Pippen from 1994-95 is Kawhi Levrk without the load management.[/QUOTE]

Pippen couldn't score like Kawhi. He had similar skill and fundamentals but never the mentality.

[QUOTE=LAL;13973960]What's wrong with you bronsexuals? It's amazing how you all take pride in lying and stupidity.[/QUOTE]

the only thing I've seen you post is "bron bron bron bron bron"


you're a bronsexual methinks

[QUOTE=red1;13973962]the only thing I've seen you post is "bron bron bron bron bron"


you're a bronsexual methinks[/QUOTE]

"Kyrie fan" "cavaliers fan" :oldlol::oldlol: I'm going to have so much fun with you.

[QUOTE=LAL;13973964]"Kyrie fan" "cavaliers fan" :oldlol::oldlol: I'm going to have so much fun with you.[/QUOTE]

no you wont bitch.


you're a f[SIZE=2]u[/SIZE]cking retard. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=Roundball_Rock;13973878]

I am not sure why Pippen is the one people keep pointing to about the top 50 when anyone who does those lists has him easily in it. .[/QUOTE]

They do now, but back then it was a real debate. I think 1994 really hurt him in Chicagoans eyes. It really bothered me. It was the freakin' Knicks. New York vs. Chicago, Knicks vs. Bulls, you cannot sit out. Anyway, all was forgiven by '98. I thought he deserved to be on that list, but, iirc, Dominique Wilkins being left off caused a huge reaction, "If we put Nique in there, who do you take out?"

SF to SF, the obvious answer was Pippen.

Hindsight being 20/20 with the ability to have seen these careers play out, there's no question Pippen belongs on there.

One other thing, the talk shows talked alot about Pippen's contract back then. Interestingly enough, Mike Greenberg was an intern for that radio station at the time. Anyway, not long after he signed it, Larry Johnson signed for some un-godly amount, $80 million comes to mind, check me on that, but Pip's contract looked really bad in comparison. But that's what he wanted, a long term deal. I would never ask him for financial advice.

[QUOTE=red1;13973965]no you wont bitch.


you're a f[SIZE=2]u[/SIZE]cking retard. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

[IMG]https://media.giphy.com/media/3oGNDk2Ue1PbGr8qty/giphy.gif[/IMG]

[QUOTE=kuniva_dAMiGhTy;13973928]Giving him top 5 status for some of those years was a bit generous of you. Other than that, we mostly agree. I mean better THAT than going the 3ball route, thinking Pippen was Derek Fisher :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

People conflate 93' Barkley with 94' Barkley. He got hurt and his production went down in the second half and he was never again the Barkley we saw before that. Barkley, Malone, Pippen all play the same position so we can get an idea how they were perceived via all-NBA voting. Pippen and Malone were the first team guys and Pippen finished ahead of Malone in all-NBA 2 of 3 years from 1994-1996.

96' may actually have been Pippen's best season but MJ overshadowed him. Pippen had injury problems late in the season and that carried over to the playoffs. 96' was easily his worst finals.

In 95' his scoring went down because MJ came back and his stats took a hit across the board. He was scoring the same as 94' before MJ. He was top 20 in rebounding as a SF.

But hey we are at least having a reasonable debate in the real world, not comparing Pippen to Fisher, Mo Wiliams, or James Jones. :oldlol:

[QUOTE]Until that semis series against NY really exposed him yet again, in terms of being an alpha and a scorer. Much as it did the year prior, even with Jordan on the floor.[/QUOTE]

This is ridiculous. MJ was the one who struggled against New York the previous year...it is masked by one monster game.

[QUOTE]Pippen couldn't score like Kawhi. He had similar skill and fundamentals but never the mentality.[/QUOTE]

True but Pippen was a much superior playmaker. That said, the question is 80 games of Pippen against 60 games of Kawhi since Kawhi can't play regularly. Keep in mind Kawhi's stats are inflated by the rest. No other superstar has ever rested as much as he does...

[QUOTE]They do now, but back then it was a real debate. I think 1994 really hurt him in Chicagoans eyes.[/QUOTE]

That happens a lot, local fans will be harsher on a player when he plays and then be more fond of that player in retirement than nationally.

Philadelphia fans rip basically every star we have (except for Saint Nick Foles). Iverson was a weird exception since he didn't win much and got a pass.

[QUOTE]Curry has been better than Durant for a while and he was absolutely better than LeBron in 2019. I generally see people ranking KG as the best in 2004 man, I don't remember seeing someone say Duncan before tbh.[/QUOTE]

Sloppy phrasing but the point is one or both of LeBron or Durant has always been ahead of Curry and then you have other guys like Harden, Westbrook, and Giannis in the mix. You may have Curry as better but keep in mind the national perception was Durant was the best player on the team. I agree, although Curry was more important to the tram.

KG had a monster year and I see a lot of people saying it but I don't sway much due to one year. To me Duncan replaced Shaq as the best player and held that until Kobe took over in 2006, but I can see why people would say KG.

No one said Dirk was the best player in 2011. It was LeBron, Kobe, Wade as the consensus top 3. Dirk probably came in 4th or 5th. I do think Dirk was the best player in the playoffs, though.