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PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than Rudy
[url]https://twitter.com/YoungNBA/status/1406740892736638980[/url]
Didnt say Rudy flatout but than any other big they faced :lol:lol
Imagine your $205 million big and "DPOY" being pretty much worse than a nikka on a rookie contract who was dumb enough to fail an NBA drug test :lol
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
Ayton is a lockdown man to man defender too and locked down Davis and jokic the first two rounds.
That 2018 draft is starting to turn out as the new 1984 draft
Hakeem Ayton
Trae Jordan
Luka Barkley
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
And Bagley is obviously sam bowie hahahaha
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=HBK_Kliq_2;14366271]Ayton is a lockdown man to man defender too and locked down Davis and jokic the first two rounds.
That 2018 draft is starting to turn out as the new 1984 draft
Hakeem Ayton
Trae Jordan
Luka Barkley[/QUOTE]
Davis was injured, and Jokic put up 25/13/6 in some pretty limited time against them due to blowouts.
Great take though.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=plowking;14366279]Davis was injured, and Jokic put up 25/13/6 in some pretty limited time against them due to blowouts.
Great take though.[/QUOTE]
Ayton didnt defend Jokic the whole game. Not sure why ppl still post series stats like theyre guarding them 40 minutes a game.
[url]https://twitter.com/GeraldBourguet/status/1403791454753878016[/url]
Jokic got CLAMPED with Ayton on him. And that wasnt even the worst part. Babybois defense got EXPLOITED badly on the pick and roll and isos. CP and Book shooting practice shots on the midrange. Ayton getting roll finishes at the basket at will hahahaha. Jokic no can defend.
Its not just his defense on bigs Ayton is looking like a playoff animal and top 5 defender in the league.
[url]https://twitter.com/TheValleyStats/status/1404295675345391620[/url]
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=PG13;14366258]Ayton is more agile, [B]more of a presence down low[/B] and better finisher than Rudy[/QUOTE]
yall literally couldnt play a center if he was in a game because toody would disrupt the game too much lol...fk outta here lying. we get it, you dont like the dude but come on now.... be believable
The man made yall run 5 out just so yall could score enough to keep up with the jazz
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
Xiao fuming
PG13 is just trolling, he says
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
As a Suns fan, there's 0 chance I'd trade Ayton for Rudy, and that's before even getting into their contract situations which makes it even worse. And unlike a lot of people on here I respect Rudy's defense and impact. He's a very good player and aside from trolling Xiao and his bad contract, idk why people shit on him so much.
But I honestly believe Ayton's defense as of right now is at least almost just as good, maybe even better because he's more versatile. Ayton passes when it comes to the eye test as well, you can just see the other team struggling to deal with him usually no matter who they switch onto him. Ayton excels defensively in a lot of situations that Rudy gets exposed in. He has the speed and athleticism, and verticality to switch onto any position. Very few players have the speed to abuse him.
Ayton's ceiling as a defender is ridiculous. It just gets slept on because he was known for being a poor defender in college, and he doesn't get as much sexy "normal" stats that show up on standard box scores like blocks and steals. But when you get into advanced head to head matchup stats you see his impact. Or better yet when you just watch him play. Especially in the playoffs where he's been playing the best ball of his life consistently every game. He makes so many people miss shots when he's on them, who are usually money.
Obviously he's much better offensively than Rudy and improving fast, and he's a 22 year old who's extremely coachable with a ceiling as high as the moon... realistically he's only going to get way better on the offensive end from here on out. In this playoffs alone I've seen so much growth in his game. He's finally learning that nobody can stop him when he's aggressive, and it's a beautiful thing to see.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=HBK_Kliq_2;14366271]Ayton is a lockdown man to man defender too and locked down Davis and jokic the first two rounds.
That 2018 draft is starting to turn out as the new 1984 draft
Hakeem Ayton
Trae Jordan
Luka Barkley[/QUOTE]
Your takes on players defense is worse than your takes on Kawhit. You just don't know anything about basketball, period.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
So, lets line up all the morons that think Gobert > Ayton:
Xiao
Smoke
anyone else?
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
Only thing Rudy does better than Ayton is protect the rim in a regular season schedule
I don't even think he's a better defender in the yoffs.
Ayton already forced Lue to adjust and play Zubac in game 2 when they got away with playing all guard and wing lineups VS Toody all series. Ayton got a nice jump hook and footwork down low he damn near automatic. Oh and he ended up dunking a game winner on Zu :roll:
But but muh screen assist:roll:
Nikkas on a rookie deal better than the 205 million dollar man. WOAT contract
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=ArbitraryWater;14368850]So, lets line up all the morons that think Gobert > Ayton:
Xiao
Smoke
anyone else?[/QUOTE]
Rudy is clearly the higher impact player at this point. A small sample size in the playoffs doesn’t change that. Ayton hasn’t done anything at a consistent level to be put over Gobert. I don’t even care about Gobert. Everything I’ve said in relation to him and Mitchell is to pour gasoline on the flames and troll. Trying to put Ayton over him, though, is absolutely ****ing moronic.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Smoke117;14368854]Rudy is clearly the higher impact player at this point. A small sample size in the playoffs doesn’t change that. Ayton hasn’t done anything at a consistent level to be put over Gobert. I don’t even care about Gobert. Everything I’ve said in relation to him and Mitchell is to pour gasoline on the flames and troll. Trying to put Ayton over him, though, is absolutely ****ing moronic.[/QUOTE]
You ****ing retard.
You ****ing **** dumbass
This type of IQ should not be allowed on bball forums
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
Why are people shitting on Rudy so much? What did he do to you all?
Who cares if he has a big contract. He'd be an idiot to turn it down.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Smoke117;14368854]Rudy is clearly the higher impact player at this point. A small sample size in the playoffs doesn’t change that. Ayton hasn’t done anything at a consistent level to be put over Gobert. I don’t even care about Gobert. Everything I’ve said in relation to him and Mitchell is to pour gasoline on the flames and troll. Trying to put Ayton over him, though, is absolutely ****ing moronic.[/QUOTE]
Yet if he's the higher impact player then why are the Clippers players and fans admitting that Ayton is already a much bigger issue than Rudy was. Even if you give Rudy the edge on defense(which is honestly situational as I already said, since Ayton excels in a lot of situations Rudy struggles in). Not to mention the fact that Ayton is only 22.
Also the fact that he's playing his best ball in the playoffs when it matters most is a GOOD thing, and even more impressive when you consider it's only his first playoff appearance ever. What contender would ever chose a big who's great in reg season but average in the playoffs over a player who's average in the regular season but great in the playoffs?
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=SATAN;14368860]Why are people shitting on Rudy so much? What did he do to you all?
Who cares if he has a big contract. He'd be an idiot to turn it down.[/QUOTE]
It's since that Chinese Jazz fan was shitting on Mitchell and being a d1ckhead about Rudy.
Kinda like how that Kawhi guy makes every single post about Kawhi, even if its got nothing to do with Kawhi...whilst he also knows nothing about the rules or history of the game and league.
And then the Bron stans...obviously.
Stans make the general posters turn on their obsessions...mainly for their sheer disrespect to other players, and delusion that comes with their stanning
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
when Ayton is carrying a crappy team let me know.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=wagexslave;14368861]Yet if he's the higher impact player then why are the Clippers players and fans admitting that Ayton is already a much bigger issue than Rudy was. Even if you give Rudy the edge on defense(which is honestly situational as I already said, since Ayton excels in a lot of situations Rudy struggles in). Not to mention the fact that Ayton is only 22.
Also the fact that he's playing his best ball in the playoffs when it matters most is a GOOD thing, and even more impressive when you consider it's only his first playoff appearance ever. What contender would ever chose a big who's great in reg season but average in the playoffs over a player who's average in the regular season but great in the playoffs?[/QUOTE]
Yeah, it’s really not situational. Gobert was a vastly superior defensive player throughout the season. It wasn’t even close. The impact defensively was day and night. Ayton was average at best for a center. A few games in the playoffs doesn’t make it “situational” or put Ayton overall anywhere near Gobert. That’s idiotic.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
lockdown AD? in the game where ad wasn't injured he put 34 points each on 50% shooting. Jokic was 25/13/6. He isn't locking down anyone. Ayton is more Deandre Jordan than he is rudy, ad or jokes
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Rudeboy3;14368878]lockdown AD? in the game where ad wasn't injured he put 34 points each on 50% shooting. Jokic was 25/13/6. He isn't locking down anyone. Ayton is more Deandre Jordan than he is rudy, ad or jokes[/QUOTE]
lol Nice try. Obviously you didn't watch the games, but you should AT LEAST check the defensive matchup stats before you type something stupid as f*ck.
AD's total combined round 1 stats when Ayton was guarding him: 33 points on 11/29 shooting (37.9% FG), 2/5 from 3pt (40%), 4 assists
Joker's total combined round 2 stats when Ayton was guarding him: 53 points on 24/59 shooting(40.7% FG), 2/12 from 3pt (16.7%), 14 assists
Oh btw on the offensive end, when AD was guarding Ayton he shot 100% FG. When Jokic was guarding Ayton he shot 64% FG. They literally couldn't do shit to stop him, he was straight up sh*tting in their Cheerios and making them eat it.
Only reason AD even had those 2 good games was because he was flopping like crazy flailing his arms yelling "AHHHH" any time someone breathed on him and the refs were giving him phantom whistles granting him trips to the line at an insane rate, it was a joke and painful to watch. Dude shot over 20 FTs in game 2 alone. But you'd know that if you actually watched it.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
People love to praise Gobert on D but give me a big guy like Ayton or Embiid that can move and switch any day come playoff time.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
Exactly what defensive matchups? AD Jokic still ate him up, gave up 20 fts? You’re a ****ing bum. Giannis even ****ed him the regular season
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Rudeboy3;14368908]Exactly what defensive matchups? AD Jokic still ate him up, gave up 20 fts? You’re a ****ing bum. Giannis even ****ed him the regular season[/QUOTE]Ayton was definitely a problem for them. Even Jokic says Ayton’s a problem. You are definitely one of them boxscore watching clowns that thinks the boxscores tell the whole story. Dude just posted the defensive stats on you casuals and you’re still trying to argue and plead your case. :roll:
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=JohnMax;14368893]People love to praise Gobert on D but give me a big guy like Ayton or Embiid that can move and switch any day come playoff time.[/QUOTE]
Big guys can that can have big impact on both ends
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Rudeboy3;14368908]Exactly what defensive matchups? AD Jokic still ate him up, gave up 20 fts? You’re a ****ing bum. Giannis even ****ed him the regular season[/QUOTE]
LOL Continuing to prove my point, which is that you don't have a single f*cking clue about what you're talking about. Giannis literally shot 10 of 24 when guarded by Ayton this season 41.7% FG, 0 of 4 from 3PT
Some other noteworthy matchups guarded by Ayton in the reg season:
Jokic went 13 of 34
Embiid 11 of 23
Jamal Murray 8 of 24
Luka doncic 5 of 14
Sabonis 9 of 20
Christian Wood 11 of 25
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
Ayton has impressive touch on his jumper and hook shot. Also good court awareness where to be. He doesn't play soft either flopping so he's a respectable all star level offensive center and pretty good on defense too which I didn't expect. He saved the suns all night yesterday.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
This is going to be a test for Gobert. He needs to be taking down notes and imprinting it in his mind who is never ever going to win against him again.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Rudeboy3;14368908]Exactly what defensive matchups? AD Jokic still ate him up, gave up 20 fts? You’re a ****ing bum. Giannis even ****ed him the regular season[/QUOTE]
Box score watcher confirmed
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Smoke117;14368854]Rudy is clearly the higher impact player at this point. A small sample size in the playoffs doesn’t change that. Ayton hasn’t done anything at a consistent level to be put over Gobert. I don’t even care about Gobert. Everything I’ve said in relation to him and Mitchell is to pour gasoline on the flames and troll. Trying to put Ayton over him, though, is absolutely ****ing moronic.[/QUOTE]
Gobert is better than Ayton at one thing and that is rim protection. If Gobert had any offensive moves whatsoever, the Suns and Jazz are playing right now but he doesn't so they couldn't take advantage of the Clippers small ball attack the way Phoenix has been able to with Ayton.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Smoke117;14368854]Rudy is clearly the higher impact player at this point. A small sample size in the playoffs doesn’t change that. Ayton hasn’t done anything at a consistent level to be put over Gobert. I don’t even care about Gobert. Everything I’ve said in relation to him and Mitchell is to pour gasoline on the flames and troll. Trying to put Ayton over him, though, is absolutely ****ing moronic.[/QUOTE]
There's a big playoff sample size on Rudy. And it's not good. Its not just losing, its about how you lose. He is the main reason they lost ~ offensive ineptitude + exploitable perimeter defense. Ayton otoh defends the perimeter better, and on offense has a post game and a midrange jumper. The fact that Ayton is playing better in the playoffs right now than Gobert ever has in many tries should show you he's a more complete basketball player.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[url]https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-really-just-saw-as-jazz-collapsed-versus-clippers/[/url]
[QUOTE]Trying to stop a popular NBA fan narrative is like standing in front of a train. But let’s get this out of the way: this series did not say the things about Gobert that many people are claiming it said.
In fact, for much of this series, Gobert was Utah’s best and only chance of really slowing the Clippers down at all, even when they were small and when they abandoned pick-and-roll play altogether to force the 3-time Defensive Player of the Year to guard in space.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]By the end of Game 2, the Clippers realized that the way to avoid Gobert’s game-changing defensive presence was to stop running pick-and-roll offense almost completely. They committed fully to small lineups and isolation play, and the Jazz’s initial response was to guard them straight up, with man-to-man defense. And in that context, Rudy again was excellent.
Through five games, Gobert was actually Utah’s best isolation defender in the series, per [URL="https://twitter.com/Ben_Dowsett/status/1405548778585608193?s=20"]tracking stats shared by JazzFilmRoom’s Ben Dowsett[/URL]. Gobert wasn’t the reason man defense wasn’t working; everybody else was. George and Jackson had no problem getting right around the first defender, only now there was no Gobert in the paint to offer last-line defensive help.
So the Jazz made another system tweak. By the end of Game 4, Quin Snyder had realized that, while Gobert could hold his own guarding in space, other Jazz defenders were just dying at the point of attack without Gobert behind them to deter drivers. So that’s when he made the decision to [URL="https://twitter.com/danclayt0n/status/1404879326953152512"]let Rudy be Rudy[/URL]: he started pulling Gobert off of his man to show on drives.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]Similarly, the gambit actualy helped Utah get back in Game 4, as Gobert [URL="https://twitter.com/danclayt0n/status/1404714928359886848"]turned multiple would-be drivers away from the lane[/URL]. It was hit-or-miss in Game 5. In the first half of Game 6, it worked fantastically well: the Clippers were shooting just 6-for-20 from outside, and nobody had really punished the Jazz for exposing the perimeter in an attempt to take away layups.[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
But it’s important to remember that they were in this scheme to begin with not because of Gobert’s supposed limitations as a perimeter defender, but because of what his teammates were allowing when he wasn’t near the paint.
Jackson had 10 assists [I]in the second half of Game 6 alone[/I], and it’s easy to watch his assist reel and focus on the tough decision at the end of each play — to close out or not to close out? But if you watch what happens at the beginning of these plays, the complete and utter ease with with Jackson dances around various defenders without even needing a pick, then you understand why the Jazz needed so badly needed Gobert to sag into the paint.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]
Like, what happens on those drives if Gobert ISN’T there?
“The problem is if I don’t come and help, we give up layups,” a frustrated Gobert said the day after the Game 6 ouster. “The gameplan was for us to let Terance Mann shoot rather than letting Reggie Jackson or PG get layups.”
So yeah, this scheme was never about Rudy’s limitations: it was about the other four guys’ inability to stay in front of the basketball.
Snyder seemed to concur: “There’s things we didn’t execute on, beginning with being able to defend the ball up front.”
Snyder said that he tried variations on the scheme once the Clippers started hitting. Instead of simply letting Mann and others shoot, they started having Gobert stunt or fake the closeout, or they’d rotate down from the top. For a while they even went into zone defense. But the failure on those plays happens way before the ball ever even gets to the shooter’s hands: the Jazz just simply have to be better at guarding the ball.
[/QUOTE]
[QUOTE]But what they shouldn’t do is conclude that these breakdowns say things about Gobert’s ability to guard 5-out lineups. Even in 24 minutes that were far from his most impactful defensive half of basketball, the Gobert component of these scheme is not what broke down over and over again.
“Teams have spaced Rudy in the strong corner the entire season,” Snyder acknowledged earlier in the series. “To me, it’s a question of how we execute.”
In other words, what the Clippers did to the Jazz was just an extreme version of something they saw all season long on the way to a 52-20 record. It’s not necessarily the sign of a fatal flaw — and certainly not indicative of an inability on Gobert’s part to guard 5-out lineups. Once more for the people in the back: Gobert’s not the reason they had to abandon man defense and employ this riskier scheme.
[/QUOTE]
So apparently Ayton just has better teammates and coaching
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
Justin Kubatko: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Gobert is the only player in NBA history to average a double-double and shoot at least 60% from the field through his first eight seasons[/URL].
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/jkubatko"]Twitter jkubatko[/URL]
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14372779]Justin Kubatko: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Gobert is the only player in NBA history to average a double-double and shoot at least 60% from the field through his first eight seasons[/URL].
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/jkubatko"]Twitter jkubatko[/URL][/QUOTE]
Also the only 6th option to receive a 200m contract
Setting all sorts of records.
Btw good job getting ousted by a team without their best player.
Superstar young guard, perennial all star PG, and elite role players and still can't get out of thr 2nd round because Gobert is a liability on both ends
He's the worst player ever
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[url]https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-really-just-saw-as-jazz-collapsed-versus-clippers/[/url]
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14372801][url]https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-really-just-saw-as-jazz-collapsed-versus-clippers/[/url][/QUOTE]
Rudy isn’t Ayton that’s for sure
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
How come Ayton isnt being torched by small ball and is able to murk them on offense and the glass when a $205 million big couldnt?
Anyone knows?
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
Gobert is a monster defensively. How else a franchise where you have the likes of Mitchell, Bojan, Ingles, Clarkson getting big minutes be top 5 in defense. Without Gobert they might be matching the Blazers in defense.
Whether Ayton is better in some matchups doesn't change that.
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Hamtaro CP3KDKG;14373750]How come Ayton isnt being torched by small ball and is able to murk them on offense and the glass when a $205 million big couldnt?
Anyone knows?[/QUOTE]
better teammates and coach
[URL="https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-really-just-saw-as-jazz-collapsed-versus-clippers/"]https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-re...rsus-clippers/[/URL]
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Re: PG13: Ayton is more agile, more of a presence down low and better finisher than R
[QUOTE=Xiao Yao You;14373808]better teammates and coach
[URL="https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-really-just-saw-as-jazz-collapsed-versus-clippers/"]https://saltcityhoops.com/what-we-re...rsus-clippers/[/URL][/QUOTE]
3rd place in coty. You throw everyone under the bus but Rudy