The US blew up Russia's pipeline.

This could go down as a very significant event.

The idea that Russia could supply natural gas to the Europeans was simply too dangerous to let come to pass. It would allow Russia to profit and grow in strength. The US simply can't let that happen. The US provoked Russia into invading Ukraine so that sanctions could be imposed. The US pumped a total of 54 billion dollars into Ukraine to keep the conflict going. And now this. The US is playing a very dangerous game.

Meanwhile Russia is growing its military and soon will begin phase 2 in Ukraine. Buckle up fellas.

Putin never led a war before 2022. Oh wait. Did the US also pump 54 billions into Chechnia or Georgia? Putin is an imperialistic idiot, who threatened western Europe as soon as he came to power. But sure it's all about the US.

[QUOTE=Rolando;14665235]
Meanwhile Russia is growing its military[/QUOTE]
By conscripting old men and send them to Ukraine with next to zero training and zero supply? :roll:

Russia is losing this war. Watch the news.

[URL="https://www.bbc.com/news/business-63084613"]US suggests Russia could be behind Nord Stream gas leaks[/URL]

[QUOTE]US Energy Secretary Jennifer Granholm told the BBC an investigation was being carried out into the cause of what she called "an act of sabotage", adding "it is highly unlikely that these incidents are coincidence"[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=Rolando;14665235]This could go down as a very significant event.

The idea that Russia could supply natural gas to the Europeans was simply too dangerous to let come to pass. It would allow Russia to profit and grow in strength. The US simply can't let that happen. The US provoked Russia into invading Ukraine so that sanctions could be imposed. The US pumped a total of 54 billion dollars into Ukraine to keep the conflict going. And now this. The US is playing a very dangerous game.

Meanwhile Russia is growing its military and soon will begin phase 2 in Ukraine. Buckle up fellas.[/QUOTE]

yesterday someone knocked on the door in military gear , and was speaking weird / what was that ??
Dam they are hear already

bluh bluh bluh bluh bluh

yesterday I thought I saw a meteor / but found out they nuc'ed Florida but made it look like a hurricane

:lebronamazed:

Jasper, are you drunk?

The US and the mainstream media are going to try to convince the public that Russia blew up its own pipeline. I simply cannot imagine them doing that after all the time and money they invested in it. It is also their main leverage for getting Europe to quit supporting the Ukrainians.

Nope, the US has taken that leverage away from the Russians. Not only that, now US companies can sell as much natural gas to Europe as they want.

The US benefits the most: They did this.

Europeans lose. Russians lose. Of course the Ukrainians are given their lives for this as well.

[QUOTE=Rolando;14665302]The US and the mainstream media are going to try to convince the public that Russia blew up its own pipeline. I simply cannot imagine them doing that after all the time and money they invested in it. It is also their main leverage for getting Europe to quit supporting the Ukrainians.

Nope, the US has taken that leverage away from the Russians. Not only that, now US companies can sell as much natural gas to Europe as they want.

The US benefits the most: They did this.

Europeans lose. Russians lose. Of course the Ukrainians are given their lives for this as well.[/QUOTE]

Their main leverage is their nuclear arsenal. If they didn't have that Putin would be dead already. Most countries get their gas supply by Norway. Germany and Austria are the country most on Russian gas and they imposed sanctions pretty early this year.

Kind of a funny thread for such a serious subject.

You have Overdrive immediately trying to change the subject, OTC bringing the propaganda and Jasper drunk of his ass trying to use sarcasm to show how obvious it is that Putin blew up his pipeline :oldlol:

Biden said he would end this pipeline and now here we are just before winter, without even an option for Germany to get their energy prices down, no matter how much the people there would want it.

Here's a video from Germany on Monday, a day before the option of turning back the pipeline was removed.

[video=youtube_share;39SlTQoJ4QE]https://youtu.be/39SlTQoJ4QE[/video]

I didn't change the subject. Rhere are two swperate claims in the OP. There's no evidence yet, but OP is absolutely sure the US did blow up NS. He also said the US baited Putin into the war. Maybe you should read the whole OP first.

Gas isn't Putin's biggest leverage.
Putin led war against other nations and soviet republics before.

Your evidence is a video of german conspiracy fueled people protesting?

[IMG]https://i.ibb.co/0n8KBM4/Fd1b-Bh2-WIAEjrvo.png[/IMG]

[QUOTE=Overdrive;14665384]I didn't change the subject. Rhere are two swperate claims in the OP. There's no evidence yet, but OP is absolutely sure the US did blow up NS. He also said the US baited Putin into the war. Maybe you should read the whole OP first.

Gas isn't Putin's biggest leverage.
Putin led war against other nations and soviet republics before.

Your evidence is a video of german conspiracy fueled people protesting?[/QUOTE]

Your post was exactly about changing the thread from being about the US having done something fkucked up to being about Russia.
And this is not a court of law, but a discussion board.
Is it your "evidence" that the US did not force Russia, because Russia has been to war before?

Anyways, here's Joe Biden saying that the pipeline will be shut down and being pretty quite coy as for how that would happen:

[video=youtube_share;OS4O8rGRLf8]https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8[/video]

He's been serious about all other things he said they would do against Russia, why should I think differently about this?
Or you're saying that Putin might have done Biden's bidding for him and blown it up himself?
Gas isn't Putin's biggest leverage, but what does that have to do with incentive for him to blow up his own expensive pipeline?

The fact that Biden said that makes me think that it is possible Russia did it. Biden told the whole world he would do it, he warned everyone. So then why would he deny it after? Makes no sense to me.

If Biden had not said that I would be more inclined to believe the US did this. And to be clear, I do think it is very possible the US did this, but I also think it is possible that they did not.

[QUOTE=ZenMaster;14665420]Your post was exactly about changing the thread from being about the US having done something fkucked up to being about Russia.
And this is not a court of law, but a discussion board.
Is it your "evidence" that the US did not force Russia, because Russia has been to war before?

Anyways, here's Joe Biden saying that the pipeline will be shut down and being pretty quite coy as for how that would happen:

[video=youtube_share;OS4O8rGRLf8]https://youtu.be/OS4O8rGRLf8[/video]

He's been serious about all other things he said they would do against Russia, why should I think differently about this?
Or you're saying that Putin might have done Biden's bidding for him and blown it up himself?
Gas isn't Putin's biggest leverage, but what does that have to do with incentive for him to blow up his own expensive pipeline?[/QUOTE]

I didn't change the topic, because the two countries suspected and capable are the US and Russia. How is it a change of topic if I say at this point hitting NS wouldn't be of much use for the US. How is that a change of topic when the topic is about the US sabotaging NS?

How is it a change of topic when the OP says Russia was provoked into a war by the US when Russia has a track record of unprovoked wars? When Putin is on record to deny statehood for Ukraine, large parts of Georgia etc.

It's not Putin's expensive pipeline. It's Germany's. Why would he do it? With the looming threat of Russia in the baltic sea he's binding skandinavic and german miltary in that place.

Apparently russia has ran out of kirov airships as we speak. :(

So, I guess it would be a good idea to catch everybody up on what’s happened in Ukraine since the US engineered a coup of their government in 2014. ( [url]https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-perpetrated-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine/[/url] )

The US has worked for many years to set this all up. They helped overthrow the democratically elected government in 2014 and set up a very right-wing government which has Nazi elements involved in it. This government was not neutral on the question of joining NATO. It was very pro joining NATO.

When this all happened, the Russian speaking Ukrainians who generally live in the Donbas region decided they were not on board with the new government. So they started fighting against the new government.

Then came the Minsk Agreements. This negotiated a cease fire. The government forces would withdraw, and the region would be given more autonomy. They could have their own elections….. But none of this happened. The Ukrainian government kept bombing the crap out of the Donbas Region for another 8 years. Again, these people are Russian by ethnicity.

1 in 6 Ukrainians are ethnic Russians. 1 in 3 Ukrainians speak Russian as their primary language.

When you have such a divided country, it would be a good idea to remain neutral. The Ukrainians simple could have stayed neutral and avoided this whole war.

However, that’s not an acceptable situation for the US. They have pressured the very conservative / Nazi government to join NATO. The US also financed the continued violence against ethnic Russians within Ukraine.

Putin had warned many years ago that Ukraine joining NATO would be unacceptable. For NATO to set up in Ukraine would be like Russia setting up a strategic partner in Mexico. It is a complete no-go.

1. The slaughter of ethnic Russians has been going on for 8 years in the Donbas.
2. The Ukrainian government wants to Join NATO.
3. NATO and the US has been training Ukrainian forces for many years now.

This is why the Russians have invaded the Donbass in Ukraine. After so many years of pressure to do something for their people there and also the massive threat of Ukraine joining NATO left them no choice but to act.

Sanctions allowed the US to close the dreaded Russian pipeline so that Europe has to turn to other, western companies for energy. This conflict allows American arms producers to profit greatly. The US taxpayers are basically paying the salaries of the Ukrainian army at this point. Taxpayer money is being used to buy all the arms. (The money goes directly to arms manufacturers.)

TLDR: Wealthy people in the States don’t like the wealthy people in Russia. Poor people will fight this conflict for both sides.

Nobody knows for sure who sabotaged the pipeline, and I don't know if we will. If it's a high-level military sabotage, they probably took precautions to hide their tracks. If there is a report, it would be classified I don't know if there is going to be an investigation, who would fund, and what they would find.

[QUOTE=Rolando;14665486]So, I guess it would be a good idea to catch everybody up on what’s happened in Ukraine since the US engineered a coup of their government in 2014. ( [url]https://moderndiplomacy.eu/2018/06/04/how-and-why-the-u-s-government-perpetrated-the-2014-coup-in-ukraine/[/url] )

The US has worked for many years to set this all up. They helped overthrow the democratically elected government in 2014 and set up a very right-wing government which has Nazi elements involved in it. This government was not neutral on the question of joining NATO. It was very pro joining NATO.

When this all happened, the Russian speaking Ukrainians who generally live in the Donbas region decided they were not on board with the new government. So they started fighting against the new government.

Then came the Minsk Agreements. This negotiated a cease fire. The government forces would withdraw, and the region would be given more autonomy. They could have their own elections….. But none of this happened. The Ukrainian government kept bombing the crap out of the Donbas Region for another 8 years. Again, these people are Russian by ethnicity.

1 in 6 Ukrainians are ethnic Russians. 1 in 3 Ukrainians speak Russian as their primary language.

When you have such a divided country, it would be a good idea to remain neutral. The Ukrainians simple could have stayed neutral and avoided this whole war.

However, that’s not an acceptable situation for the US. They have pressured the very conservative / Nazi government to join NATO. The US also financed the continued violence against ethnic Russians within Ukraine.

Putin had warned many years ago that Ukraine joining NATO would be unacceptable. For NATO to set up in Ukraine would be like Russia setting up a strategic partner in Mexico. It is a complete no-go.

1. The slaughter of ethnic Russians has been going on for 8 years in the Donbas.
2. The Ukrainian government wants to Join NATO.
3. NATO and the US has been training Ukrainian forces for many years now.

This is why the Russians have invaded the Donbass in Ukraine. After so many years of pressure to do something for their people there and also the massive threat of Ukraine joining NATO left them no choice but to act.

Sanctions allowed the US to close the dreaded Russian pipeline so that Europe has to turn to other, western companies for energy. This conflict allows American arms producers to profit greatly. The US taxpayers are basically paying the salaries of the Ukrainian army at this point. Taxpayer money is being used to buy all the arms. (The money goes directly to arms manufacturers.)

TLDR: Wealthy people in the States don’t like the wealthy people in Russia. Poor people will fight this conflict for both sides.[/QUOTE]

Interesting...just one question. Are you by any chance Russian?

[QUOTE=TheMan;14665504]Interesting...just one question. Are you by any chance Russian?[/QUOTE]

Or possibly spending too much time on some 4chan Russian propaganda board.

[QUOTE=bladefd;14665507]Or possibly spending too much time on some 4chan Russian propaganda board.[/QUOTE]
:roll:

Ha ha ha.....Nope.

American here.

Just pointing out the obvious. I also am ahead of the media. Let's see what the official story is. Somehow, the powers-that-be have to convince us that Russia blew up its own pipeline which it has spent billions building. This also took a looooooong time to build. These explosions may make it PERMANENTLY unusable.

So you can consider me a bit skeptical.

Until I get a convincing alternative, the US is the main suspect. Nothing else makes sense. As soon as the European citizens realize what has been done to them. They just might be quite upset with the good ole USA.

I watched Putin's annexation ceremony speech. Dude talks well but it's clear he wants the West crippled. Dude was literally talking about trans, the Anti-Christ while pretending "Russia" is morally superior and must do what's necessary. I can see how a certain brand of conservatives fall for his shit.

[QUOTE=Rolando;14665538]Ha ha ha.....Nope.

American here.

Just pointing out the obvious. I also am ahead of the media. Let's see what the official story is. Somehow, the powers-that-be have to convince us that Russia blew up its own pipeline which it has spent billions building. This also took a looooooong time to build. These explosions may make it PERMANENTLY unusable.

So you can consider me a bit skeptical.

Until I get a convincing alternative, the US is the main suspect. Nothing else makes sense. As soon as the European citizens realize what has been done to them. They just might be quite upset with the good ole USA.[/QUOTE]

I've been following the Nord Stream 2 saga for many months. The sanctions, Russia using it as leverage, German freezing and the German government telling their citizens that THEY have to sacrifice (not them) for Ukraine, German's citizens cutting wood. And I had such little motivation to create a thread about it because immediately CNN, MSNBC came out with the narrative that it was Russia. A narrative that made no sense. It's like cutting your nose off. And two, how would they even know, be so sure. And then immediately after you had the usual suspects repeating it. Like even if by luck it was somehow Russia, the propaganda is so obvious, and the usual suspects eat it up completely. It's always going to be that way.

[video=youtube_share;NwHH1RJxx1g]https://youtu.be/NwHH1RJxx1g[/video]

[QUOTE=SATAN;14665542]I watched Putin's annexation ceremony speech. Dude talks well but it's clear he wants the West crippled. Dude was literally talking about trans, the Anti-Christ while pretending "Russia" is morally superior and must do what's necessary. I can see how a certain brand of conservatives fall for his shit.[/QUOTE]

He was talking about how Satan the devil is in the United States right now because we're committing so many resources on mutilating and exploiting children through trans ideology. He is right.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;14665566]He was talking about how Satan the devil is in the United States right now because we're committing so many resources on mutilating and exploiting children through trans ideology. He is right.[/QUOTE]

He's saying it hoping people like you will hear it and cause further division imo. You don't start shit with a foreign country over something like that unless you really are an unhinged religious nutjob (imo). You could blame Satan for what China is doing to minorities also. Or any other ****ed up/weird thing happening in the world.

[QUOTE=TheMan;14665504]Interesting...just one question. Are you by any chance Russian?[/QUOTE]

I know a Ukrainian woman who explains events from 2014 and up until the war basically the same as Rolando, says she lost her patriotism towards Ukraine when her birth region was bombed by their own government back then.
I guess she just spent too much time on 4chan as well :oldlol:

[QUOTE]I didn't change the topic, because the two countries suspected and capable are the US and Russia. How is it a change of topic if I say at this point hitting NS wouldn't be of much use for the US. How is that a change of topic when the topic is about the US sabotaging NS?[/QUOTE]

You didn't say anything about that, all you said was that Russia has been to war before without being baited into it, so they could not have been baited this time.

[QUOTE=Patrick Chewing;14665288]Jasper, are you drunk?[/QUOTE]


Poopsie - if I was hammered to the gills I would have more logic than you when you are sober...:oldlol::roll::oldlol:

[QUOTE=jstern;14665563]I've been following the Nord Stream 2 saga for many months. The sanctions, Russia using it as leverage, German freezing and the German government telling their citizens that THEY have to sacrifice (not them) for Ukraine, German's citizens cutting wood. And I had such little motivation to create a thread about it because immediately CNN, MSNBC came out with the narrative that it was Russia. A narrative that made no sense. It's like cutting your nose off. And two, how would they even know, be so sure. And then immediately after you had the usual suspects repeating it. Like even if by luck it was somehow Russia, the propaganda is so obvious, and the usual suspects eat it up completely. It's always going to be that way.

[video=youtube_share;NwHH1RJxx1g]https://youtu.be/NwHH1RJxx1g[/video][/QUOTE]

Surprised Jstern followed anything other than poopsie on ISH ....lmfao

Secretary of Defense Blinken says: "the sabotage of Russian Nord Stream gas pipeline was seen in Washington as a “tremendous opportunity”

Secretary Blinken also confirmed that the U.S. had now become “the leading supplier of [liquefied natural gas] to Europe.”

Wow! Putin blowing up his own pipeline and now this.

Are you all still on board with the mainstream media explanation?

[url]https://militarywatchmagazine.com/article/blinken-nord-stream-attack--opportunity[/url]

Former Polish minister of national defense tweeted: Thank You USA! With a nice picture of the gas bubbling up in the Baltic Sea.

[url]https://www.reddit.com/r/poland/comments/xpqkvc/i_was_not_expecting_a_former_polish_foreign/[/url]

Shall I continue?

[QUOTE=Rolando;14665538]Ha ha ha.....Nope.

American here.

Just pointing out the obvious. I also am ahead of the media. Let's see what the official story is. Somehow, the powers-that-be have to convince us that Russia blew up its own pipeline which it has spent billions building. This also took a looooooong time to build. These explosions may make it PERMANENTLY unusable.

So you can consider me a bit skeptical.

Until I get a convincing alternative, the US is the main suspect. Nothing else makes sense. As soon as the European citizens realize what has been done to them. They just might be quite upset with the good ole USA.[/QUOTE]

Quick note to say thanks for your posts in this thread and other 'thinking' posts.

I keep expecting a nuclear event after the pipeline bombing...

this is an undercover operation by the demo's to free the world .
When Trump becomes Prez again , all the nazi's will fall back into place...

[QUOTE=Jasper;14666959]this is an undercover operation by the demo's to free the world .
When Trump becomes Prez again , all the nazi's will fall back into place...[/QUOTE]

Does this make sense to anyone??

[QUOTE=Rolando;14665538]
Until I get a convincing alternative, the US is the main suspect. Nothing else makes sense.[/QUOTE]

How about this?

[video=youtube;hk-0qJXyido]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk-0qJXyido[/video]

[QUOTE=Off the Court;14666976]How about this?

[video=youtube;hk-0qJXyido]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk-0qJXyido[/video][/QUOTE]

It doesn't fit his narrative, and 4chan Russian propaganda forum would not permit it.

[QUOTE=oldtimer28;14666889]Quick note to say thanks for your posts in this thread and other 'thinking' posts.

I keep expecting a nuclear event after the pipeline bombing...[/QUOTE]

I appreciate it. I am enjoying throwing out some new and challenging ideas and points of view to this discussion. It really is quite remarkable how universal the "group think" is on this particular issue. In my own life, there's pretty much nobody in my social circle who's in agreement with me. On Facebook, there's only one friend of mine who seems to get it. Usually there's a percentage of progressive thinkers out there presenting a contrary opinion.......Not this time.

The propaganda machine has been really, really successful in putting forth a certain perspective of events.

Russia must be tempted to retaliate in some way. I don't think they can. Like I said in the other thread, this is a game of chess. Of course, the nuclear option is their ultimate card to play but things have not risen to that level of action yet. Russia has taken territory from Ukraine and taken in the ethnic Russians in that area.

Ukraine is pretty helpless without US support. I don't think the American public is up for sending any more billions over there so it could be that things cool down in Ukraine fairly soon. Russia will solidify it's new border and respond to the coming minor attacks and disruptions. Ukraine has to be careful that it doesn't collapse once the the western money runs dry. They will be very unstable, flooded with arms and a variety of factions looking to take power.

[QUOTE=Off the Court;14666976]How about this?

[video=youtube;hk-0qJXyido]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hk-0qJXyido[/video][/QUOTE]

Ok. This is something we can definitely discuss. The guy has a level of intelligence and he's constructed a theory based on some selected facts supported by some big assumptions.

1. He assumes that, if the US did it, they could have done it in a clandestine way that was completely under the radar........So clearly it wasn't the US….. Well, perhaps there was no other way to kill this pipeline outside of blowing it up. Perhaps the cyber security of the Russia is capable of protecting it from such clever threats.

So the “operational design” base for this argument has assumptions that can be easily questioned.

2. He mentions early on that we should not consider who benefits from this but rather, focus on his “operational design” theory. Really?

3. He also specified that the operation created three effects. Ok. At LEAST three effects were created. Here’s an effect he didn’t mention: The Americans are now the biggest supplier of natural gas to Europe as a result of these explosions.

4. He falsely states that “all the effects of the blowing up of the pipelines are bad for the United States.”

5. He claims that the consequences of blowing up these pipes “are all good for Russia”. Really? They just lost all their negotiating leverage with the Europeans. That’s not some minor point to ignore. They also just lost 11 billion invested in building the pipeline. They lost all future profits as well.

6. He then goes on to say that, since Russia is losing the war badly, they are much more likely to do crazy things. Russia is losing the war? Really? They just expanded their territory. Ukraine has gotten smaller! FFS! Seriously. Look at the freaking value of the Ruble since the war started. Russia isn’t losing. Their economy is quite healthy. Putin is very popular at the moment.

Anyway, this guy has a certain level of intelligence but he has constructed an argument that is pretty easily countered.

[QUOTE=Rolando;14667168]Ok. This is something we can definitely discuss. The guy has a level of intelligence and he's constructed a theory based on some selected facts supported by some big assumptions.

1. He assumes that, if the US did it, they could have done it in a clandestine way that was completely under the radar........So clearly it wasn't the US….. Well, perhaps there was no other way to kill this pipeline outside of blowing it up. Perhaps the cyber security of the Russia is capable of protecting it from such clever threats.

So the “operational design” base for this argument has assumptions that can be easily questioned.

2. He mentions early on that we should not consider who benefits from this but rather, focus on his “operational design” theory. Really?

3. He also specified that the operation created three effects. Ok. At LEAST three effects were created. Here’s an effect he didn’t mention: The Americans are now the biggest supplier of natural gas to Europe as a result of these explosions.

4. He falsely states that “all the effects of the blowing up of the pipelines are bad for the United States.”

5. He claims that the consequences of blowing up these pipes “are all good for Russia”. Really? They just lost all their negotiating leverage with the Europeans. That’s not some minor point to ignore. They also just lost 11 billion invested in building the pipeline. They lost all future profits as well.

6. He then goes on to say that, since Russia is losing the war badly, they are much more likely to do crazy things. Russia is losing the war? Really? They just expanded their territory. Ukraine has gotten smaller! FFS! Seriously. Look at the freaking value of the Ruble since the war started. Russia isn’t losing. Their economy is quite healthy. Putin is very popular at the moment.

Anyway, this guy has a certain level of intelligence but he has constructed an argument that is pretty easily countered.[/QUOTE]

I saw the video earlier, and it was disgusting seeing all those people in the comment section eating it up. His whole argument is based on his theory, being presented as full proof. And at the core of it it's based on the fake CNN, MSNBC narrative that Putin is Hitler, that one day he just decided that he wanted to take over ALL of Ukraine, unexpectedly, shocking the whole world, AND that he's loosing and getting embarrassed in this conflict.

So basically, Putin is a suicidal maniac, so doesn't care about Russia, therefor he clearly is the one who blew up his own pipeline. Because "the allies are closing in." That's a very simplistic narrative that the Blade's and Off the Court of the world can easily gobble up.

And when you have such media coordination based on narrative, there's not much that can be done about it. The best thing to do is to make sure you don't get caught up in it.

And even the design of the video, reminds me of this Corona Doctor that just spread Pfizer propaganda. Has an expensive camera, great presentation, and a high status job. He puts a spoiler on the thumbnail, "Russia did it," and then tells you before he starts his explanation that spoiler, Russia did it. Most creators want to create suspense in a sense, to have people watch as long as possible. But the point of the video doesn't seem to be about getting engagement, but rather, "Russia did it."