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Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of Klay
Buddy Hield confirms that Klay/Pippen are replaceable and carried, while Wiggins already proved it in 2022.
Great chemistry & system allows secondary players like Klay, Buddy, Wiggins and Pippen to play well, otherwise they're nobodies in the annals of history - winning sidekicks are the most overrated players in history by virtue of getting inflated by the winning spotlight..
Of course, a great system is only possible if the 1st option has a skillset that allows great ball movement and system - a ball-dominator like Luka, Lebron or Harden simply don't allow ball movement systems to be run, while goat jumpshooters like Curry or MJ do.
Indeed, we see that Klay was inferior to Hornacek across the board (see first post below).
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
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[U]Regular Season[/U]
[url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hornaje01.html]Hornacek[/url]'.... 17.7 PER.. 2.9 bpm.. 0.153 ws/48.. 42.1 vorp on 33,964 min.. 15/3/5 on 58.2 ts
[url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thompkl01.html]Klay[/url]............ 16.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.110 ws/48.. 14.4 vorp on 20,380 min.. 19/3/2 on 57.5 ts
[U]Playoffs[/U]
[url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/h/hornaje01.html]Hornacek[/url]'.... 16.5 PER.. 3.1 bpm.. 0.145 ws/48.. 14.1 vorp on 4766 min.. 15/4/4 on 57.5 ts
[url=https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thompkl01.html]Klay[/url]............ 14.4 PER.. 0.7 bpm.. 0.091 ws/48.... 3.1 vorp on 4570 min.. 19/3/2 on 56.0 ts
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=DJMcDonald;14955104]Kelly Oubre[/QUOTE]
exactly - that troll made the point that ALMOST anyone can replace klay, and now we see that the spirit of that post was correct - maybe not oubre, but [I]nearly anyone[/I] can replace a secondary producer like Klay or Pippen.. A guy like Pippen never played above a prime Larry Nance or Iguoudala caliber, but the winning spotlight inflated him to all-time status and media accolade.. And now we see that Buddy Hield is better than Klay in this system, and could've won in Curry's heyday just like Klay did.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[IMG]https://media.tenor.com/kZrd0Zxo1zIAAAAM/trump-dance-ymca.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]https://c.tenor.com/Sin0DOO2uMcAAAAd/tenor.gif[/IMG]
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[IMG]https://i.giphy.com/u1ysISFV3VwPJUIqQW.webp[/IMG]
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
Buddy would NEVER be enough help for Luka or Lebron, but it's enough for Curry because Curry's skillset emits great CHEMISTRY and ball movement.
Similarly, Kobe won with a sidekick that was worse than Bosh or Love because his skillset emits great chemistry and allows a system like the triangle.. If he was a dumb ball-dominator like Luka or Lebron, then the chemistry would be weak and Pau wouldn't be enough help.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
Put Lebron on the 2010s and 2020s Golden State Warriors, how many championship
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=Neal Romer;14955119]Put Lebron on the 2010s and 2020s Golden State Warriors, how many championship[/QUOTE]
1 title because he went 1 for 6 with AD so far, and he went 1 for 4 with Love or Wade (except the Allen miracle)
So he's a one-off guy that mostly loses regardless of cast.. He's a "1 for 4" guy.
His higher losing frequency is due to a high-scoring, ball-dominant skillset - this skillset scores a high volume of unassisted buckets that leave teammates standing around in spot-up roles, so the team has weak chemistry and can't compete effectively on the championship level...
Actually, Lebron's weak chemistry cannot win without greater talent than Klay - Lebron needs franchise guys at sidekick like Wade, Kyrie or AD, so Klay isn't nearly enough help to compensate for the weaker chemistry of bron-ball.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=Neal Romer;14955119]Put Lebron on the 2010s and 2020s Golden State Warriors, how many championship[/QUOTE]
I can answer that
[IMG]https://media.tenor.com/g6rR6Q_EClYAAAAM/trump-dance-trump.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]https://i.makeagif.com/media/7-20-2016/DflzKn.gif[/IMG]
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[IMG]https://i.makeagif.com/media/11-18-2020/8RMHtI.gif[/IMG]
[IMG]https://gifdb.com/images/high/funny-trump-dancing-sway-0ctj4cnz8ei4ucu4.gif[/IMG]
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
Is defense no longer part of basketball? That was like 40% of prime Klay's appeal.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=3ba11;14955118]Buddy would NEVER be enough help for Luka or Lebron, but it's enough for Curry because Curry's skillset emits great CHEMISTRY and ball movement.
Similarly, Kobe won with a sidekick that was worse than Bosh or Love because his skillset emits great chemistry and allows a system like the triangle.. If he was a dumb ball-dominator like Luka or Lebron, then the chemistry would be weak and Pau wouldn't be enough help.[/QUOTE]
You would really take Kevin Love over Pau on your team?
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=ralph_i_el;14955149]You would really take Kevin Love over Pau on your team?[/QUOTE]
Love was considered [I]easily[/I] superior to Pau, prior to joining Lebron
So was Bosh
it's the historical record - Kobe won with a 2nd option that was worse than Lebron's 3rd options
Infact, Jamison was 14th for MVP in 2008 and a 2x all-star, while Pau was only 1x all-star and never an MVP candidate... So Jamison was considered on-par with Pau.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
Klay was one of the best all-time guard defenders. At his prime, he really could guard everyone on the court. He could keep centers from knocking him over, and fast enough to cover any guard. After his injury, both his ability to create and guard suffered. For reasons I can't explain, his basketball IQ plummeted as well.
Offensively I've always thought he owes his greatness to Curry. He would be good anywhere else, but be considered a legend because of the way Curry plays.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
Klay was great back in the day, but he's been washed for a few years now. Hield is better than Klay now, but I'd take prime Klay over Hield any day.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[IMG]https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AA1tR1N2.img?w=534&h=300&m=6&x=424&y=45&s=89&d=89[/IMG]
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=Full Court;14955283]Klay was great back in the day, but he's been washed for a few years now. Hield is better than Klay now,
[B]but I'd take prime Klay over Hield any day[/B].[/QUOTE]
Sure and maybe Klay is better than Wiggins too but the point is that Curry can win with any of them at 2nd option, while high-scoring ball-dominators like Luka and Lebron need franchise players at 2nd and 3rd option to win as 1st option.
Of course Curry produces perennial winners with any cast due to the superior chemistry that his highly-assisted skillset produces, while high-scoring ball-dominators like Lebron and Luka have high volume of unassisted buckets that leave teammates standing around and prevent great chemistry or winning.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493318-Curry-is-the-most-overrated-player-in-history"]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493318-Curry-is-the-most-overrated-player-in-history[/URL]
[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?492449-It-s-time-to-admit-the-16-Warriors-weren-t-that-good-amp-simply-had-strategy-because"]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?492449-It-s-time-to-admit-the-16-Warriors-weren-t-that-good-amp-simply-had-strategy-because[/URL]
[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498686-Let-s-cut-the-BS-about-Curry"]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498686-Let-s-cut-the-BS-about-Curry[/URL]
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
Only 8 points for Hield tonight, 3 points the game before.
He started the season shooting 50% from 3, that is obviously not sustainable. This will not end well for OP.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14955785][URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493318-Curry-is-the-most-overrated-player-in-history"]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?493318-Curry-is-the-most-overrated-player-in-history[/URL]
[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?492449-It-s-time-to-admit-the-16-Warriors-weren-t-that-good-amp-simply-had-strategy-because"]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?492449-It-s-time-to-admit-the-16-Warriors-weren-t-that-good-amp-simply-had-strategy-because[/URL]
[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498686-Let-s-cut-the-BS-about-Curry"]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498686-Let-s-cut-the-BS-about-Curry[/URL][/QUOTE]
^^^ Outdated fake news - I could tell that Curry would win with perennial losers like Poole and Wiggins, so I knew that Curry had proved me wrong and therefore made Curry top 5 all-time in 2021:
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499177-My-top-10-(supercedes-all-previous-rankings-for-reference-purposes-going-forward)[/url]
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=3ba11;14955788]^^^ Outdated fake news - I could tell that Curry would win with perennial losers like Poole and Wiggins, so I knew that Curry had proved me wrong and therefore made Curry top 5 all-time in 2021:
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499177-My-top-10-(supercedes-all-previous-rankings-for-reference-purposes-going-forward)[/url][/QUOTE]
Literally 2 weeks earlier
[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498686-Let-s-cut-the-BS-about-Curry"]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498686-Let-s-cut-the-BS-about-Curry[/URL]
[QUOTE]Let's cut the BS about Curry. He's a regular season performer that can't score under pressure and frequently gets destroyed by other athletic guards or "dogs" like Ja or Kyrie.
You Curry fans claim he's superior but here's the facts - when you put Curry on the same court as Kyrie, Ja and others, he does NOT have an advantage - it's like "oh look, he isn't better"... Curry is just a regular season performer and infact inferior under pressure or when his peers are standing right next to him
Ultimately, since he's just a 3-point bomber, he lacks the pure scoring and shot-making skill that Kyrie, Ja and others have, along with athleticism.[/QUOTE]
This dude was claiming in October 2021 the likes of Ja Morant were better than Curry :lol
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14955790]Literally 2 weeks earlier
[URL="http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498686-Let-s-cut-the-BS-about-Curry"]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?498686-Let-s-cut-the-BS-about-Curry[/URL]
This dude was claiming in October 2021 the likes of Ja Morant were better than Curry :lol[/QUOTE]
And he proved me wrong, so I made him top 5 all-time in 2021 before anyone else had him anywhere near that high..
[url]http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?499177-My-top-10-(supercedes-all-previous-rankings-for-reference-purposes-going-forward)[/url]
And now he will come out of the West and contend for his 5th title with perennial non-contenders like Heild, Poole, Wiggins or Klay, so it's clear that he's superior to inferior skillsets like ball-dominators, who need franchise players like AD, Wade or Kyrie - it's an obvious gap..
Curry's skillset is superior because he produces goat chemistry to win with less, while Lebron produces worst-ever chemistry to have the neediest teams in history... Again, the unfolding results continue to support my doctrines.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=3ba11;14955793]And he proved me wrong[/QUOTE]
You seem to be wrong alot.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=DJMcDonald;14955104]Kelly Oubre[/QUOTE]
Lol. Kelly oubre's 20.3 ppg in charlotte didn't do any wonders for the hornets, the worst-owned franchise in the league.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14955794]You seem to be wrong alot.[/QUOTE]
Curry is the only long-standing, egregious case..
I briefly had Giannis and Kawhi top 10 in 2021, but that was for 1 day on the first iteration of my final rankings that finally included Curry - the final top 12 rankings are ranked in order of the skillsets that produced the best chemistry have the best teams and win with the least, such as the cast they were give (organically) - MJ, Kobe, Bird, Curry, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Duncan, Shaq, Magic, Lebron, Oscar.
History shows that every great team, aka "dynasty" that mostly won for a material stretch of 5+ years were led by highly-assisted skillsets such as jumpshooters (Curry, MJ, Kobe/Shaq) or bigs (Russell, Kareem, Duncan, Shaq/Kobe) - that's all the dynasties.. Meanwhile, the lower-assisted skillsets/ball-dominators produced perennial losers and never produced dynasties/great teams.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
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[B]Thread Cliffs[/B]
Based on this thread and previous threads from 2022 to 2024, I'm currently correct about Curry, while everyone else is wrong and doesn't think Curry is on Lebron's level or better, despite consistently having superior teams with FAR less help, and consistently elevating perennial nobodies to champion like Poole, Wiggins or Heild.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14955786]Only 8 points for Hield tonight, 3 points the game before.
He started the season shooting 50% from 3, that is obviously not sustainable. This will not end well for OP.[/QUOTE]
Hield since OP made this thread. 10 ppg | 38 FG% | 35 3PT%.
Warriors are also 6-8 since OP made this thread.
:oldlol:
This was predictable. Anything involving Klay turns into a backfire for 3bot.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
Klay was the prototype for 3 and D in his prime.
He was one of the top 3-5 shooters in the league and he was one of the top 10 perimeter defenders while also being able to run off screens and have an offense flow through that at times of the game.
Buddy is an excellent shooter but if he were tasked with defending the other teams top guard like prime Klay was asked to do that would not go very well.
it doesnt surprise me that 3ball would argue this point, he has never valued defense. Doesnt fit the agenda of hating Pippen.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=Carbine;14961502]Klay was the prototype for 3 and D in his prime.
He was one of the top 3-5 shooters in the league and he was one of the top 10 perimeter defenders while also being able to run off screens and have an offense flow through that at times of the game.
Buddy is an excellent shooter but if he were tasked with defending the other teams top guard like prime Klay was asked to do that would not go very well.
it doesnt surprise me that 3ball would argue this point, he has never valued defense. Doesnt fit the agenda of hating Pippen.[/QUOTE]
3ball genuinely can't process value in basketball outside of scoring, and thinks if two players average the same ppg they're equally as good, which is why his takes are always so bad.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
The straws he grasps at always seem to be the short ones that backfire in his face :facepalm The message board equivalent of wile e. coyote for those old enough to know.:oldlol:
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14961501]Hield since OP made this thread. 10 ppg | 38 FG% | 35 3PT%.
Warriors are also 6-8 since OP made this thread.
:oldlol:
This was predictable. Anything involving Klay turns into a backfire for 3bot.[/QUOTE]
For the season,
Buddy Hield is averaging 14 ppg on 45% FG and 42% 3pt.
Klay is averaging 13 ppg on 38% FG and 37% 3pt.
:biggums:
It's honestly amazing how you guys just disregard and distort reality.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=tpols;14961516]For the season,
Buddy Hield is averaging 14 ppg on 45% FG and 42% 3pt.
Klay is averaging 13 ppg on 38% FG and 37% 3pt.
:biggums:
It's honestly amazing how you guys just disregard and distort reality.[/QUOTE]
:biggums:
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=tpols;14961515]This is a wierd bump.[/QUOTE]
Is it really? The premise op presented has quickly soured.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=tpols;14961516]For the season,
Buddy Hield is averaging 14 ppg on 45% FG and 42% 3pt.
Klay is averaging 13 ppg on 38% FG and 37% 3pt.
:biggums:
It's honestly amazing how you guys just disregard and distort reality.[/QUOTE]
Also im pretty effing sure the point of this thread was the alltime great version of klay could be replaced by anyone decent. And it's definitely not truth. You're reduced to comparing washed up Klay to a younger "prime" player. Sad.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
I doubt OP was referring to the current Klay who the Ws let walk for nothing.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=tpols;14961516]It's honestly amazing how you guys just disregard and distort reality.[/QUOTE]
Said without the slightest bit of irony :lol
And OP is CLEARLY talking about Klay on the title winning teams, you constantly misinterpret things.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=sdot_thadon;14961522]Also im pretty effing sure the point of this thread was the alltime great version of klay could be replaced by anyone decent. And it's definitely not truth. You're reduced to comparing washed up Klay to a younger "prime" player. Sad.[/QUOTE]
It's not really that far fetched when you look at the actual production. Klay simply didn't show up a lot in the playoffs when the warriors really needed him outside of the 2016 WCFs.
Shit the bed in the 2015 Finals and needed Iggy to replace his impact, shit the bed in the 2016 Finals and if he even shot just slightly below average they'd have won, was inconsequential in the Durant years, and then shit the bed in the 2022 Finals and needed Wiggins of all people to step into the 2nd option role while also guarding and locking down the other teams best player in Tatum.
The winning spotlight clearly elevated the publics perception of Klay. He'd be a 20 ppg borderline All Star on any other team. Like Bradley Beal level but even Beal had a higher ceiling and was capable of doing 30/5/5. More bag and handles for sure.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=tpols;14961528]It's not really that far fetched when you look at the actual production. Klay simply didn't show up a lot in the playoffs when the warriors really needed him outside of the 2016 WCFs.
Shit the bed in the 2015 Finals and needed Iggy to replace his impact, shit the bed in the 2016 Finals and if he even shot just slightly below average they'd have won, was inconsequential in the Durant years, and then shit the bed in the 2022 Finals and needed Wiggins of all people to step into the 2nd option role while also guarding and locking down the other teams best player in Tatum.
The winning spotlight clearly elevated the publics perception of Klay. He'd be a 20 ppg borderline All Star on any other team. Like Bradley Beal level but even Beal had a higher ceiling and was capable of doing 30/5/5. More bag and handles for sure.[/QUOTE]
He was the best player for the Warriors in the '19 Finals up until he got injured while Curry was stinking it up.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14961529]He was the best player for the Warriors in the '19 Finals up until he got injured while Curry was stinking it up.[/QUOTE]
Curry averaged 31/6/5 on 41/34/95 splits in the 2019 NBA Finals. Not the best series of his career but still... pretty damn good. Klay did show up in that series but he couldn't finish it due to injury... so that counts. It's unfortunate but it's the way it went.
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Re: Who knew that Buddy could've replaced Klay & been called an all-timer instead of
[QUOTE=tpols;14961530]Curry averaged 31/6/5 on 41/34/95 splits in the 2019 NBA Finals. Not the best series of his career but still... pretty damn good. Klay did show up in that series but he couldn't finish it due to injury... so that counts. It's unfortunate but it's the way it went.[/QUOTE]
From what I remember Curry was bricking everything in that series. Klay would have easily won FMVP that year if he didn't get injured and the Warriors won.
