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And lets see if we can discuss it without bringing up that Duncan won a title in 99 with a considerably better cast. So the question is... just as players on the floor, rolling out the ball who you taking as of NOW?
I did see an interesting stat( since we in this era of talking up random milestones). 100 games in, Wemby has more points than Lebron, more blocks than Hakeem, and more 3s than Steph. Notable as these are the all-time leaders in each category.
Duncan 24/7
his offense was more refined, i don't care for a 7 footer taking 3s. give me a forward that can post you up, hit bank shots, has a face up game that doesn't involved getting stripped every other play. his back to the basket game was elite and extremely reliable...like more reliable than mikal bridges suiting up for a game, more reliable than lebron scoring double digits
there's an unverified tweet claiming duncan beat wemby in a juan on juan game 12-2 recently.
[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/ncJxcS7Q/image.png[/IMG]
Duncan was better but had the benefit of 4 years of NCAA. My only real gripe with Wemby is that I believe he'd be better off he cut out the threes but he's still an efficient scorer. Over time he's likely to either improve in shot selection or get better at shooting threes so I would go with Wembanyama. Great as Duncan was I believe Wembanyama will be an even more dominant defensive force. He's got the greatest potential as a defender of any player I've ever seen, a potential he will reach, and will average points in the high 20s in his prime.
[QUOTE=highwhey;14967191]Duncan 24/7
his offense was more refined, i don't care for a 7 footer taking 3s. give me a forward that can post you up, hit bank shots, has a face up game that doesn't involved getting stripped every other play. his back to the basket game was elite and extremely reliable...like more reliable than mikal bridges suiting up for a game, more reliable than lebron scoring double digits
[B]
there's an unverified tweet claiming duncan beat wemby in a juan on juan game 12-2 recently.[/B]
[IMG]https://i.postimg.cc/ncJxcS7Q/image.png[/IMG][/QUOTE]
I read that but I'm not sure if that was fake or not. 90% of the shit I see online now comes with heaping spoonfuls of salt. Shit like that would have been on someones camera and uploaded since everything is video'ed nowaways.
I just don't know if it's a disrespectful question to ask yet because obviously we know the totality of Duncan's career and for me he's like a top 8-ish GOAT but this is about their first two years as of now.
[QUOTE=Phoenix;14967199]I read that but I'm not sure if that was fake or not. 90% of the shit I see online now comes with heaping spoonfuls of salt. Shit like that would have been on someones camera and uploaded since everything is video'ed nowaways.
I just don't know if it's a disrespectful question to ask yet because obviously we know the totality of Duncan's career and for me he's like a top 8-ish GOAT but this is about their first two years as of now.[/QUOTE]
for sure, i would not take it as some truth but it's not beyond the realm of possibilities considering it's duncan and it's a 1on1 match not a full court 5x5 game.
[QUOTE=Real Men Wear Green;14967192]Duncan was better but had the benefit of 4 years of NCAA. [B]My only real gripe with Wemby is that I believe he'd be better off he cut out the threes but he's still an efficient scorer.[/B] Over time he's likely to either improve in shot selection or get better at shooting threes so I would go with Wembanyama. Great as Duncan was I believe Wembanyama will be an even more dominant defensive force. He's got the greatest potential as a defender of any player I've ever seen, a potential he will reach, and will average points in the high 20s in his prime.[/QUOTE]
That's my main beef as well but he's very much a product of his era when it comes to that. Defensively I agree, as great aa Duncan was defensively, Wemby is so long and athletic he can actually cover the basket and then close out on corner 3's. And he's never out of the play even if he bites on the first pumpfake:
[video=youtube;ZFqTa4_I5oA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZFqTa4_I5oA&ab_channel=ChazNBA[/video]
He's like his own help defender lol. He barely needs to jump to block a shot so if he bites on the first one he can almost instantaneously recover.
Is this a serious question? Duncan was 1st team all-NBA his rookie season and won the championship in his second season. I don't think Wemby will match that, to be honest.
[QUOTE=pandiani17;14967203]Is this a serious question? Duncan was 1st team all-NBA his rookie season and won the championship in his second season. I don't think Wemby will match that, to be honest.[/QUOTE]
Yes it's a serious question. Did you read where I said see if we can compare them as players without the championship, since the 99 Spurs are considerably better than the current ones? And as for first team all-nba, I'd argue it was easier for Duncan to achieve that in 98. Barkley was past his prime, Scottie missed half the year, so who else would be really challenging him for a forward spot on the 1st team that year asides from an aging Karl Malone and Grant Hill? To be first team in the frontcourt now you're competing with peak Jokic and Giannis, Embiid( when healthy), and prime AD. I would argue with Embiid being injured this year he may be first team and it would be criminal if he's not DPOY.
Duncan....but Wemby's ceiling is higher. Wemby's potential is GOAT-tier.
You've got to be kidding me, right? Duncan won a championship in year 2. No way OP is serious.
Duncan won a fvcking FMVP in his sophomore year, Wemby may not even win a playoff game. Absolutely ridiculous question.
[QUOTE=MrFonzworth;14967213][B]You've got to be kidding me, right?[/B] Duncan won a championship in year 2. No way OP is serious.[/QUOTE]
Are you? The very first thing I said is lets see if we can compare them just as players( given that Duncan played on a way better Spurs team in 99).
You then completely ignore that and go right to the championship argument. Duncan isn't winning with the 2024 Spurs either.
Wemby's already played like 6yrs against pro's and still isn't better than 2nd year Duncan.
[QUOTE=SouBeachTalents;14967219]Duncan won a fvcking FMVP in his sophomore year, Wemby may not even win a playoff game. Absolutely ridiculous question.[/QUOTE]
Now I expect more nuanced takes from you than this. Come on SBT....
Duncan was 1st team All NBA in 1998.
[QUOTE=MrFonzworth;14967213]You've got to be kidding me, right? Duncan won a championship in year 2. No way OP is serious.[/QUOTE]
First post about basketball in 3yrs ^^^^
Why oh why did I ever think, in a post where I'm specifically asking to compare these two *as players* after 2 seasons without using circumstantial accolades.....that the majority answers would be circumstantial accolades. Fukking hell....
Let me simplify it, for the 'herp derp Duncan won a title' low hanging fruit replies. Is Wemby, assuming health, at least trending to be potentially better than Duncan? Or are we gonna stick with Duncan won a title with David Robinson as the defacto fallback? Because Wemby could very easily be first team All-NBA this year( with Jokic and Giannis),stiffer competition at the forward spot than Duncan in 98, and end up DPOY.
Duncan was more polished, knew where is spots were, and was already a leader. I’d go with him if I’m starting a team and only get them in their first two years.
[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14967230]Duncan was more polished, knew where is spots were, and was already a leader. I’d go with him if I’m starting a team and only get them in their first two years.[/QUOTE]
Thank you for replying in the spirit the question was intended. How do you see them in terms of defensive impact( taking into account of course they had different responsibilities because of how the game is played nowadays).
I find it interesting that people here steer away from championships when the conversation is something like MJ vs Lebron...preferring to argue that as a 'team achievement'....but use that very crouch comparing Wemby vs Duncan.
[QUOTE=Phoenix;14967233]Thank you for replying in the spirit the question was intended. How do you see them in terms of defensive impact( taking into account of course they had different responsibilities because of how the game is played nowadays).
I find it interesting that people here steer away from championships when the conversation is something like MJ vs Lebron...preferring to argue that as a 'team achievement'....but use that very crouch comparing Wemby vs Duncan.[/QUOTE]
It’s kind of a cop out to say, but I think defensively they both impact their era greater than the other would. Wembys length and athleticism of course play now with all the spacing but I think he’d get beat up more than Duncan in 1998. Particularly on the boards.
[QUOTE=ShawkFactory;14967235]It’s kind of a cop out to say, but I think defensively they both impact their era greater than the other would. Wembys length and athleticism of course play now with all the spacing but I think he’d get beat up more than Duncan in 1998. Particularly on the boards.[/QUOTE]
Yeah he'd need to bulk up more in the 90s.
I actually didn't think it was a crazy question but apparently it is. Here I thought 98 was a 'weak' period for the league but apparently that only matters depending on which players are in the argument. To me Wemby's not that far off from being top 5 right now but I'd like to see him in the playoffs first.
I agree with the Duncan by a mile take, tho. It really is that simple. Duncan was so smart as a youngin. Wemby isn't a basketball genius. Maybe it won't matter in the end, but it does in the beginning.
Not a huge Duncan fan, either, but this is not a hard question. One time that the 'troll responses' are right.
-Smak
[QUOTE=Phoenix;14967236]Yeah he'd need to bulk up more in the 90s.
I actually didn't think it was a crazy question but apparently it is. Here I thought 98 was a 'weak' period for the league but apparently that only matters depending on which players are in the argument. To me Wemby's not that far off from being top 5 right now but I'd like to see him in the playoffs first.[/QUOTE]
It was not a weak period and the PF position was starting to get loaded with talent: Karl Malone (who won MVP in the 1999 regular season), Kevin Garnett already having a couple of All-Star appearances under his belt, Charles Barkley, Chris Webber, Shawn Kemp, Vin Baker,Rasheed Wallace, etc. And it got even more competitive in the early 2000s with Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand, Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, Amare Stoudemire, Zach Randolph, etc.
[QUOTE=Phoenix;14967236]Yeah he'd need to bulk up more in the 90s.
I actually didn't think it was a crazy question but apparently it is. Here I thought 98 was a 'weak' period for the league but apparently that only matters depending on which players are in the argument. To me Wemby's not that far off from being top 5 right now but I'd like to see him in the playoffs first.[/QUOTE]
It was not a weak period and the PF position was starting to get loaded with talent: Karl Malone (who won MVP in the 1999 regular season), Kevin Garnett already having a couple of All-Star appearances under his belt, Charles Barkley, Chris Webber, Shawn Kemp, Vin Baker,Rasheed Wallace, etc. And it got even more competitive in the early 2000s with Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand, Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, Amare Stoudemire, Zach Randolph, etc.
[QUOTE=Phoenix;14967236]Yeah he'd need to bulk up more in the 90s.
I actually didn't think it was a crazy question but apparently it is. Here I thought 98 was a 'weak' period for the league but apparently that only matters depending on which players are in the argument. To me Wemby's not that far off from being top 5 right now but I'd like to see him in the playoffs first.[/QUOTE]
I don't really think wemby can bulk up. He seems like he will always be skinny like Durant, but to an even larger degree since he's even taller and lankier.
With those giraffe legs he'd never be able to move leverage on anthony mason or Oakley or Rodman types. He would just have to shoot over everybody like he's doing now.
[QUOTE=pandiani17;14967244]It was not a weak period and the PF position was starting to get loaded with talent: Karl Malone (who won MVP in the 1999 regular season), Kevin Garnett already having a couple of All-Star appearances under his belt, Charles Barkley, Chris Webber, Shawn Kemp, Vin Baker,Rasheed Wallace, etc. And it got even more competitive in the early 2000s with Dirk Nowitzki, Elton Brand, Jermaine O'Neal, Pau Gasol, Amare Stoudemire, Zach Randolph, etc.[/QUOTE]
Malone was 36 and past his heyday in 99. Garnett wasn't quite there yet, same for Webber. Kemp's best days were behind him. Vin Baker? good player at his best, but come on. He was never an All-NBA first teamer. Barkley was a year from retirement. But anyways, I always see on this board that the late 90's was a weak period after expansion. Guess it depends on the conversation when you have people saying the players today are more skilled/talented, so comparing accolades in a vacuum isn't really a 1:1.
The early 2000s being more competitive at the position has nothing to do with Duncan in 98 making the all-NBA first team.
[QUOTE=tpols;14967246]I don't really think wemby can bulk up. He seems like he will always be skinny like Durant, but to an even larger degree since he's even taller and lankier.
[/QUOTE]
Yeah probably not, it's just his body type( and would take away from what he is if he could).
This is easily Duncan. He was the best player on a title team by '99 and was first team all NBA. He was a better player in his era than Wemby is in this era. No shame in that, Wemby being younger and all.
[QUOTE=MrFonzworth;14967213]You've got to be kidding me, right? [B]Duncan won a championship in year 2[/B]. No way OP is serious.[/QUOTE]
:lol
I would probably take Duncan, but it's way closer than some people think, especially when you consider how well Wemby is playing this season.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14967258]I would probably take Duncan, but it's way closer than some people think,[B] especially when you consider how well Wemby is playing this season.[/B][/QUOTE]
Agreed. Just defensively I feel like people are underestimating how much of a game changer this dude is. He doesn't even have anyone on the team remotely as good as 99 David Robinson for the championship argument to even matter. That's why I was trying to steer the conversation to just comparing them as on-floor talents, but throwing out the chip argument takes way less effort.
Wemby doesn't shoot, dribble or score as well as many other shooters or ball-handlers, so he doesn't have a skill advantage compared to his peers, while Duncan dominated the post better than his peers, so Duncan won right away.. Wemby will always be stuck trying to be guard, so he'll never have an advantage on his peers from a skill standpoint, or achieve the chemistry that Duncan did.
But he'll always be a great stat-padder, so you guys will hold on for a long time before you realize that putting an 8 footer so far from the rim is bad for chemistry.
[QUOTE=3ba11;14967265]Wemby doesn't shoot, dribble or score as well as many other shooters or ball-handlers, so he doesn't have a skill advantage compared to his peers, while Duncan dominated the post better than his peers, so Duncan won right away.. Wemby will always be stuck trying to be guard, so he'll never have an advantage on his peers from a skill standpoint, or achieve the chemistry that Duncan did.
But he'll always be a great stat-padder, so you guys will hold on for a long time before you realize that putting an 8 footer so far from the rim is bad for chemistry.[/QUOTE]
Remember when you called him a bust? lol
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14967269]Remember when you called him a bust? lol[/QUOTE]
If he doesn't win any titles, or if he has to team-up with opponents like Lebron - then he will be a bust
I think his game sucks tbh... An 8 footer shooting threes and trying to put the ball between his legs - he looks like an idiot.... but you guys just don't understand basketball, which is why it took you 10 years to get tired of threes (as I told you that you would)
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14967269]Remember when you called him a bust? lol[/QUOTE]
Oof, another horrible take from 3ball.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers;14967269]Remember when you called him a bust? lol[/QUOTE]
And Steph was the most overrated player ever, then two months later he was top 10. And this occurred during the summer of 2021, so he hadn't done anything on the court to even shift that opinion from the end of one season to the start of the next.
[QUOTE=3ba11;14967265]Wemby doesn't shoot, dribble or score as well as many other shooters or ball-handlers, so he doesn't have a skill advantage compared to his peers, while Duncan dominated the post better than his peers, so Duncan won right away.. Wemby will always be stuck trying to be guard, so he'll never have an advantage on his peers from a skill standpoint, or achieve the chemistry that Duncan did.
But he'll always be a great stat-padder, so you guys will hold on for a long time before you realize that putting an 8 footer so far from the rim is bad for chemistry.[/QUOTE]
So which category are you putting him in today that you'll flip flop on by next season? Ball-dominator? Bird-fed? Elite jumpshooter?
[QUOTE=Phoenix;14967272]And Steph was the most overrated player ever, then two months later he was top 10. And this occurred during the summer of 2021, so he hadn't done anything on the court to even shift that opinion from the end of one season to the start of the next.[/QUOTE]
Curry proved me wrong because I had a blind spot of the 3ball, but what does Wemby have to prove me wrong??
Nothing... It's simply suboptimal to have a guy that tall play guard and be 1st option - he'll NEVER WIN, unless he stacks the deck like Lebron...
You'll see... You just don't understand how basketball works and get your information from journalism majors, which makes your understanding even worse... Otoh, I had the insight on 3-pointers 10 years ago and people are finally catching up - people are finally realizing that today's game isn't really basketball and sucks
[QUOTE=Phoenix;14967274]So which category are you putting him in today that you'll flip flop on by next season? Ball-dominator? Bird-fed? Elite jumpshooter?[/QUOTE]
He's a 7'5" guy that tries to be a guard... This cannot win because literally ALL his peers shoot and dribble better than him - they do what he does BETTER, so he's just for entertainment and not someone that can win... otoh, Duncan entered the league as the best post player in the game (massive edge over peers), so he won immediately without that much help.