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I know, I know, I know that this may have been discussed over one billion times but I am wondering who would be better for a team? A young 1984-1987 Michael Jordan or a current Kobe Bryant?
A lot of people say that they didn't know that Michael Jordan would be as good as he turned out to be whenever he was drafted in 1984. But is this type of Michael Jordan (with hair on his head) better than a current MVP Kobe Bryant?
Michael who? Jordan?
who's better: early Jordan or prime Bo Kimble?
The better question Jordan as a toddler or current Kobe Bryant?
Jordan's walk-on at Illinois son Jeffrey or Kobe's wife. WHO WINS
When it comes to Kobe vs Jordan, I count on only 3 people to make a reasonable/honest/objective assessment here.
Psileas/The Indian Guy/Dejordan.
Maybe someone else I'm forgetting and if that's so, I apologize.
[QUOTE=TruthKGRay3412]The better question Jordan as a toddler or current Kobe Bryant?[/QUOTE]
wow yes i knew it kobe hater...
kg is sucks by the way!!!lol
[COLOR="White"]ur a stupid mutherf*cker[/COLOR]
Jordan.
honestly
i cant quote on this because i wasnt around to watch those old jordan james
and i bet most of the people who post here didnt either.
but from common sense an 11 player veteran is better than a rookie..in this case...dumb thread...
They were different types of players. Rookie Jordan could most likely equal current Kobe's production, but Kobe's game management and the general polish of his game is more than what rookie Jordan's was. Rookie Jordan was also more of an energy/intensity player than current Kobe, so he could provide a spark that way.
I'd probably take current Kobe. I would take '87 and later Jordan over any version of Kobe, however.
[QUOTE]I would take '87 and later Jordan over any version of Kobe, however.[/QUOTE]
I'm pretty sure everybody knows your answer. Stop trolling..
[QUOTE=Emile]When it comes to Kobe vs Jordan, I count on only 3 people to make a reasonable/honest/objective assessment here.
Psileas/The Indian Guy/Dejordan.
Maybe someone else I'm forgetting and if that's so, I apologize.[/QUOTE]
As you should. :)
[QUOTE=Emile]When it comes to Kobe vs Jordan, I count on only 3 people to make a reasonable/honest/objective assessment here.
Psileas/The Indian Guy/Dejordan.
Maybe someone else I'm forgetting and if that's so, I apologize.[/QUOTE]
I really don't care what anyone says... the vast majority of the time when it comes to Jordan vs Kobe topics... the only reasonable, honest, objective assessment is that Jordan was by far and away, yes, by far and away, a superior basketball player.
I'd probably take a current Kobe over a rookie MJ but it wouldn't be some slam dunk decision. This one actually is debatable.
But prime vs prime, career vs career, MJ wins hands down. Anyone who says otherwise is a damn fool or completely ignorant of the past.
[quote=Vendetta]I really don't care what anyone says... the vast majority of the time when it comes to Jordan vs Kobe topics... the only reasonable, honest, objective assessment is that Jordan was by far and away, yes, by far and away, a superior basketball player.
I'd probably take a current Kobe over a rookie MJ but it wouldn't be some slam dunk decision. This one actually is debatable.
But prime vs prime, career vs career, MJ wins hands down. Anyone who says otherwise is a damn fool or completely ignorant of the past.[/quote]
:cheers:
Obviously current Kobe. I'd prefer to watch Mike again though.
[QUOTE=Vendetta]I really don't care what anyone says... the vast majority of the time when it comes to Jordan vs Kobe topics... the only reasonable, honest, objective assessment is that Jordan was by far and away, yes, by far and away, a superior basketball player.
I'd probably take a current Kobe over a rookie MJ but it wouldn't be some slam dunk decision. This one actually is debatable.
But prime vs prime, [B]career vs career[/B], MJ wins hands down. Anyone who says otherwise is a damn fool or completely ignorant of the past.[/QUOTE]
you cannot come to that conclusion yet. kobes career is far from over...
[QUOTE=iamgine]Obviously current Kobe. I'd prefer to watch Mike again though.[/QUOTE]
I agree. Kobe's experience and ability to hit the J makes him a better player than '84 MJ. But there's never been a more exciting player than a 1984-90 Michael Jordan. I would donate my left nut to science research to watch Jordan play again from 23-24 years ago.
This is SUCH a joke. Kobe at the same age as rookie Mike was arguably better. Similar numbers, better shooter, better defender(All-NBA Defensive First Team the YEAR BEFORE).
[QUOTE=eliteballer]This is SUCH a joke. Kobe at the same age as rookie Mike was arguably better. [/QUOTE]
:roll: :bowdown: :roll: :bowdown:
Jordan at 22(Most of rookie year)
28.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.4 stl, 51.5 FG, 17.3 3FG, 84.5 FT
Kobe at 22
28.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.7 stl, 46.4 FG, 30.5 3FG, 85.3 FT, [B]All-NBA Defensive Second Team(First-Team year before)[/B]
Not to mention Jordan was in a faster paced, less defensive easier to score league.
[QUOTE=eliteballer]Jordan at 22(Most of rookie year)
28.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.4 stl, 51.5 FG, 17.3 3FG, 84.5 FT
Kobe at 22
28.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.7 stl, 46.4 FG, 30.5 3FG, 85.3 FT, [B]All-NBA Defensive Second Team(First-Team year before)[/B]
Not to mention Jordan was in a faster paced, less defensive easier to score league.[/QUOTE]
Lesser defense in the 80's? I'm not sure about that. What sport were you watching back then? Were you even alive in 1985?
[QUOTE=elementally morale]Lesser defense in the 80's? I'm not sure about that. What sport were you watching back then? Were you even alive in 1985?[/QUOTE]
Its true. Just look at scoring averages.
It's threads like these that make we want to get a sledge hammer and start swinging at the TC's head.
I'll take Jordan at birth (say 12 minutes old) over Kobe at age 83 with Leukemia.
[QUOTE=GreatLakes]Its true. Just look at scoring averages.[/QUOTE]
Faster game, true. Less defense... not really. Different defense. More physical defense.
[QUOTE=elementally morale]Faster game, true. Less defense... not really. Different defense. More physical defense.[/QUOTE]
Sure more physical defense. But less athletic players. Guys not as long and able to cover as much ground. Easier to run your offense.
[QUOTE=eliteballer]Jordan at 22(Most of rookie year)
28.2 ppg, 6.5 rpg, 5.9 apg, 2.4 stl, 51.5 FG, 17.3 3FG, 84.5 FT
Kobe at 22
28.5 ppg, 5.9 rpg, 5.0 apg, 1.7 stl, 46.4 FG, 30.5 3FG, 85.3 FT, [B]All-NBA Defensive Second Team(First-Team year before)[/B]
Not to mention Jordan was in a faster paced, less defensive easier to score league.[/QUOTE]
Not to mention that Jordan was the focus of every defense he faced as opposed to Kobe, who was playing with a top 7 all-time player in his absolute prime. :hammerhead:
[QUOTE=Loki]Not to mention that Jordan was the focus of every defense he faced as opposed to Kobe, who was playing with a top 7 all-time player in his absolute prime. :hammerhead:[/QUOTE]
Meh, I bet Kobe would still get similar numbers or higher when by himself. It might have been a bit harder but Kobe could adapt. But we'll never know which is why threads like this are worthless...
[QUOTE=KenneBell]Meh, I bet Kobe would still get similar numbers or higher when by himself. It might have been a bit harder but Kobe could adapt. But we'll never know which is why threads like this are worthless...[/QUOTE]
Right. Because it's easier to score against double and triple teams than when you have a teammate commanding those double/triple teams, and it's easier to get assists passing to shooters than it is by driving and dumping it off for guaranteed dunks. :oldlol:
Funny when history tells us that a star is on his own team where he has to carry the load on a bad team...his numbers go UP. As Kobe's did without Shaq:D Oh yeah...and Kobe was operating in the triangle, not freelancing like MJ.
[QUOTE=eliteballer]Funny when history tells us that a star is on his own team where he has to carry the load on a bad team...his numbers go UP. As Kobe's did without Shaq:D Oh yeah...and Kobe was operating in the triangle, not freelancing like MJ.[/QUOTE]
Kobe's numbers went up only once they changed the defensive rules that benefitted all perimeter players. Nice try though. In 2005 and from '00-'04 in the games Shaq was out, his numbers were noticeably worse than when Shaq was in.
[QUOTE=Loki]They were different types of players. Rookie Jordan could most likely equal current Kobe's production, but Kobe's game management and the general polish of his game is more than what rookie Jordan's was. Rookie Jordan was also more of an energy/intensity player than current Kobe, so he could provide a spark that way.
I'd probably take current Kobe. I would take '87 and later Jordan over any version of Kobe, however.[/QUOTE]
This is a solid analysis. From a MJ groupie no less.
[QUOTE=Loki]Kobe's numbers went up only once they changed the defensive rules that benefitted all perimeter players. Nice try though. In 2005 and from '00-'04 in the games Shaq was out, his numbers were notably worse than when Shaq was in.[/QUOTE]
As if the notion that 80's defense at ANY stage was better than 00's defense at ANY stage. As for your second point. [B]NOPE. You're lying. FLAT OUT. I'm calling you OUT to POST THE NUMBERS FROM EVERY GAME KOBE PLAYED WITHOUT SHAQ FROM 00-04 AND AVERAGE THEM, THEN COMPARE. Go ahead, do IT. I've seen them. [/B]
[B]I'LL PROVE YOUR WRONG RIGHT NOW FOR THE 04 SEASON.[/B]
[url]http://www.82games.com/kobeshaq.htm[/url]
Kobe Bryant stat splits for the 2003-04 Regular Season
Situation FGA FG% FTM Ast TO OReb Reb Stl Pts Pts100
[B]with Shaq 17.2 45.5% 6.3 5.7 2.9 1.6 5.7 1.7 23.0 100.0
without Shaq 24.0 41.5% 10.3 4.6 2.7 2.0 6.3 2.2 31.6 100.4 [/B]
Stats shown on a per 40 minutes of playing time basis,
"PTS100" is points per 100 possessions, ignoring offensive rebounds
Without Shaquille, Kobe's field goal attempts increase by a whopping 40%, albeit at a cost in field goal percentage (and for you eFG lovers that adjust for three-point shots made, Kobe's eFG is .487 with Shaq, .443 without him).
[B]Remarkably though, Kobe's efficiency doesn't drop[/B] despite the lower FG% number, since he gets to the free throw line a whole lot more, but his scoring average zooms up to 31.6 points per 40 minutes, [B]so yes he may well lead the league in scoring once the Diesel is no longer obstructing his way to the paint. [/B]
[B]
In other details, Bryant's assists drop slightly without Shaq, but his rebounds and steals move up a little. Most importantly, despite handling the ball more often his turnovers decrease, presumably because he's making less passes into the paint which carry the higher risk/reward equation. [/B]
Let's see....EIGHT MORE POINTS PER GAME, MORE REBOUNDS, STEALS, LESS TURNOVERS.
Not even mentioning MJ's much superior D, the fact that Jordan shot a career 49%, while Kobe's career high for a SEASON is a rounded up 47% sums it up for me.
[QUOTE=InspiredLebowski]Not even mentioning MJ's much superior D, the fact that Jordan shot a career 49%, while Kobe's career high for a SEASON is a rounded up 47% sums it up for me.[/QUOTE]
KOBE IS ALL-NBA DEFENSE, NOT ROOKIE MJ.
.........
[quote=eliteballer]KOBE IS ALL-NBA DEFENSE, NOT ROOKIE MJ.[/quote]
WHAT DID YOU SAY I COULDN'T MAKE IT OUT
Besides, Mike with the gold chain is the best NBA photo of all time
[QUOTE=InspiredLebowski]Not even mentioning MJ's much superior D, the fact that Jordan shot a career 49%, while Kobe's career high for a SEASON is a rounded up 47% sums it up for me.[/QUOTE]
We've been over this already. Kobe is more of a perimeter jumpshooter. He takes way more threes than Jordan and pretty much anyone in his era. The game has changed. His FG% as well pretty much everyone else's is lower than players from Jordan's era because of the recent tendencies to take 3's. It's also explains why his TS% is close to MJ's.
18 feet in, Jordan was automatic. That's where he and most guards in his day operated. Not today.
[quote=KenneBell]We've been over this already. Kobe is more of a perimeter jumpshooter. He takes way more threes than Jordan and pretty anyone in his era. The game has changed. His FG% as well pretty much everyone else's is lower than players from Jordan's era because of the recent tendencies to take 3's.[/quote]
First of all, my mistake in making this an overall vs. overall debate, it's digressing from the OP.
Anyway, so what? He should be given the benefit of the doubt, even though there's no hand-check these days, because he takes lower % shots? I'll readily admit Kobe has more range right now than MJ ever had in his career, but so what? Is Reggie Miller or Ray Allen better than a guy like Dwyane Wade because they could drain it from 30 feet?
[QUOTE=InspiredLebowski]
Anyway, so what? He should be given the benefit of the doubt, even though there's no hand-check these days, because he takes lower % shots? I'll readily admit Kobe has more range right now than MJ ever had in his career, but so what? Is Reggie Miller or Ray Allen better than a guy like Dwyane Wade because they could drain it from 30 feet?[/QUOTE]
No I'm just saying...
For the topic, I'd go with Kobe no doubt. I'd like to see 29yo Kobe matchup vs a 29yo Jordan. It'd be interesting to see for sure.
[quote=KenneBell]No I'm just saying...
For the topic, I'd go with Kobe no doubt. I'd like to see 29yo Kobe matchup vs a 29yo Jordan. It'd be interesting to see for sure.[/quote]
MJ 11 Kobe 5