What is Kobe's legacy if he beats Miami's big 3 in the finals?

Well, I was correct. The Lakers bench damn near lost games by themselves in the WCF and Finals. Miami is still more talented though.

[QUOTE=Jacks3]Well, I was correct. The Lakers bench damn near lost games by themselves in the WCF and Finals. Miami is still more talented though.[/QUOTE]

I didn't say you weren't correct, though I'd say Kobe is already top 10 and will probably be top 6 if he beats Miama while putting up good numbers.

But didn't you say in another thread that Jordan was no better than OJ Mayo?

Incidentally, I love how some posters are just dismissing Bird left and right in this thread.

[QUOTE=MaxFly]Incidentally, I love how some posters are just dismissing Bird left and right in this thread.[/QUOTE]

Bird's peak was short (2-3 season), and the rest of his career, while great, wasn't good enough for me to put him in my top 5. I'd put Jordan, Johnson, O'neal, Abdul-Jabbar, Olajuwon, Duncan, Bryant, Robinson above him, in that order.

I'd also probably consider 3-4 other players above him.

And that's just in the modern era. I'm not counting players like Wilt, Russell, etc..

[QUOTE=Vicp493]Bird's peak was short (2-3 season), and the rest of his career, while great, wasn't good enough for me to put him in my top 5. I'd put Jordan, Johnson, O'neal, Abdul-Jabbar, Olajuwon, Duncan, Bryant, Robinson above him, in that order.

I'd also probably consider 3-4 other players above him.

And that's just in the modern era. I'm not counting players like Wilt, Russell, etc..[/QUOTE]

So........... Olajuwan, Duncan, Robinson and Shaq over Bird on all time lists... Well, rveryone is entitled to their own opinions... but :facepalm

[QUOTE=NBASTATMAN]Kobe, in my opinion has hurt his teams' REGULAR SEASON record with his play in the regular season.. I think him wanting to win the MVP too much hurt their record last year.....Gasol showed he was a great player when Kobe went out...[/QUOTE]

This is interesting.... When did you determine he was trying to win the MVP award?

The same as it will be when his career ends. On the outside looking in on the top 5. I don't see any plausible way that Kobe squeezes into fifth or higher all time.

A ring this year, Kobe sniffs the top 7, and I have to believe Kobe is too much of a NBA historian to know that he has the chance to beat out MJ in terms of # of rings. Kobe has the teammates to win at least 2 more, especially if we are just seeing Gasol at his prime and with Bynum healthy, there is no reason not to believe Lakers are contending for the next 2-4 years.

I think beating or losing to Miami isn't going to make Kobe's legacy THAT much better or worse. I think Kobe can shut fans up if he has a real MVP type series, putting up great numbers, then there is absolutely no doubt Kobe is in his own class above Lebron and Wade.

But knowing Kobe, he knows his place in the NBA history, and it's about more than just beating Lebron and Wade. It's tying MJ and having the opportunity to have more rings than MJ. I think that's ultimately the motivation for the guy. In fact, I think Kobe has always believe he is better than Lebron and Wade so he probably doesn't even care too much who he sees in the Finals next year.

As long as Kobe doesn't take 30+ shots a game, the Lakers have a chance.

From LakersNation analyzing stats for 2008-2009 season:

[QUOTE]** In games when Kobe takes 30 or more shots, the Lakers are 3-5

** In games when Kobe takes 20 or less shots, the Lakers are 27-1

** Kobe is averaging 20 shots per game in the Lakers’ 48 victories

** Kobe is averaging 27.3 shots per game in their 12 losses.
[/QUOTE]

So, as long as he keeps his FGAs down to around 20. . .they should have a good chance. Lakers' bigs will be way too much for Chris Bosh, Father Time, and Snoop Dogg to deal with.

That is, if both those two teams both make it to the finals, which I sincerely doubt will happen. This year's not the Heat's year imo.


[QUOTE=okayabc123]there is no reason not to believe Lakers are contending for the next 2-4 years. [/QUOTE]

4 years from now their core's age would be like 36. 2 years, sure. 4? No.

[QUOTE=SinJackal]As long as Kobe doesn't take 30+ shots a game, the Lakers have a chance.

From LakersNation analyzing stats for 2008-2009 season:



So, as long as he keeps his FGAs down to around 20. . .they should have a good chance. Lakers' bigs will be way too much for Chris Bosh, Father Time, and Snoop Dogg to deal with.

That is, if both those two teams both make it to the finals, which I sincerely doubt will happen. This year's not the Heat's year imo.




4 years from now their core's age would be like 36. 2 years, sure. 4? No.[/QUOTE]


Bro...I really don't want an epic Kobe hate flame war debate...But as a Lakers fan and watching the games in the last 3yrs where Kobe takes a bunch of shots....I can tell you that those numbers a flawd..

Because...In MOST of the games where he hoist up tons of shots...It happens when his team is playing garbage...Thus he tries to go into that second half "shoot it untill I bring my team back" and it either gets them up, or puts them in an deeper hole...I mean dude can have 17fga going into the 4th..We would have the lead...Then our bench gives it away...Phil brings Kobe in, and Kobe has to try and get us back in it..Thus taking about 10-11 shots in the 4th...And in games where he doesn't shoot that many...It's because he, along with his teamates played great from the start and whind up blowing the other team out, thus Kobe sitting for the 4th.

Now, there's been a few games where he just came out Chucking in the 1st and we lost...Not gonna deny that...But mostly, Kobe comes out passing..And when he starts shooting crazy, it's mostly due to his teamates playing with no soul, and him having to try and bring us back in the 4th.

Every LAKERS fan who has watched every game knows this happens.

Just had to place some perspective to that stat.

[QUOTE=Vicp493][B]Bird's peak was short (2-3 season), and the rest of his career, while great, wasn't good enough for me to put him in my top 5. I'd put Jordan, Johnson, O'neal, Abdul-Jabbar, Olajuwon, Duncan, Bryant, Robinson above him, in that order.[/B]

I'd also probably consider 3-4 other players above him.

And that's just in the modern era. I'm not counting players like Wilt, Russell, etc..[/QUOTE]

Holy shit! You know nothing about baskeball! :oldlol:

So in Larry Bird's peak (considering he won 3 MVP's in a row) he was only super duper awesome in 2 or 3 of them apparently? :oldlol:
Bird was top 3 in MVP voting for 8 years in a row, and if you count his rookie season where he was 4th, he was top 4 for 9 years in MVP voting...
All NBA first team since his rookie season and for 9 consecutive seasons...

I mean, really... Did you expect anyone to believe what you were saying?

[QUOTE=branslowski]Bro...I really don't want an epic Kobe hate flame war debate...But as a Lakers fan and watching the games in the last 3yrs where Kobe takes a bunch of shots....I can tell you that those numbers a flawd..

Because...In MOST of the games where he hoist up tons of shots...It happens when his team is playing garbage...Thus he tries to go into that second half "shoot it untill I bring my team back" and it either gets them up, or puts them in an deeper hole...I mean dude can have 17fga going into the 4th..We would have the lead...Then our bench gives it away...Phil brings Kobe in, and Kobe has to try and get us back in it..Thus taking about 10-11 shots in the 4th...And in games where he doesn't shoot that many...It's because he, along with his teamates played great from the start and whind up blowing the other team out, thus Kobe sitting for the 4th.

Now, there's been a few games where he just came out Chucking in the 1st and we lost...Not gonna deny that...But mostly, Kobe comes out passing..And when he starts shooting crazy, it's mostly due to his teamates playing with no soul, and him having to try and bring us back in the 4th.

Every LAKERS fan who has watched every game knows this happens.

Just had to place some perspective to that stat.[/QUOTE]



110% correct. This is a fact.

[QUOTE=plowking]Holy shit! You know nothing about baskeball! :oldlol:

So in Larry Bird's peak (considering he won 3 MVP's in a row) he was only super duper awesome in 2 or 3 of them apparently? :oldlol:
Bird was top 3 in MVP voting for 8 years in a row, and if you count his rookie season where he was 4th, he was top 4 for 9 years in MVP voting...
All NBA first team since his rookie season and for 9 consecutive seasons...

I mean, really... [B]Did you expect anyone to believe what you were saying?[/B][/QUOTE]

He did...

My question is this, what if the Lakers beat the Heat this season, but then lose to them in 2012? What does that do to Kobe's legacy?

[QUOTE=Kurosawa0]My question is this, what if the Lakers beat the Heat this season, but then lose to them in 2012? What does that do to Kobe's legacy?[/QUOTE]

Really depends on how he plays individually.