These year-by-year threads are getting more and more popular....
Anyway I agree with the OP
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These year-by-year threads are getting more and more popular....
Anyway I agree with the OP
[QUOTE=Champ]If reporters were promoting Bird to such a degree, and he was the beneficiary of preferential voting as you say, then why did he suddenly fall out of favor with those same voters during the '87 and '88 seasons, when he was still one of the best players in the game? Did American sportswriters secretly conspire and agree that 3 MVPs were enough?
Of course not. The reason was the same as when Bird had one his awards -- other players, namely Magic and Jordan, had better seasons.
While we're at it, why didn't they give Bird the MVP award in '81 over Dr. J? Given how close it was, and how both players had very comparable seasons, you'd think an agenda-driven, racially-motivated votership would've given the award to Bird easily.[/QUOTE]
first things first
you asked me who "should" have gotten the award over Bird..I posted Magic Johnson's(by then already a champion, proven player) statline and team record for the years that Bird won the mvp
and I posted his statline from years when he won it himself
It's not a stretch to say that Magic COULD have gotten the award one of the 3 straight years that Bird won.
Do you concede that much?
and I note AGAIN.....that you haven't said that Bird was a better player than KAJ or Jordan, but you are dancing around the fact that he won 3 straight MVP awards and that neither of them did.
[B]People are Still Avoiding and Talking as if Bird Wasn`t a Great Defender.
Statistically It Is Shown He Was
Much Better than Magic Defensively[/B]
[QUOTE=Round Mound][B]People are Still Avoiding and Talking as if Bird Wasn`t a Great Defender.
Statistically It Is Shown He Was
Much Better than Magic Defensively[/B][/QUOTE]
you also said that stockton was better than isiah...so...
[QUOTE=get these NETS]you also said that stockton was better than isiah...so...[/QUOTE]
[B]He Was :confusedshrug: ....Only Things Isiah Was Better than Stockton at Was Driving to the Basket or Slashing 1 on 1 and Rebounding
Stockton Had Better Fundamentals, Better Creator and Passer, Better Floor General, Better Shooter and Better Defender.[/B]
[QUOTE=pauk]How come? Both were 6'9".... and both attacked the boards... You should really see some of the footage of Magic and focus on how he attacks the boards, he would run in on the defensive rebounds as fast as possible (allowed him to start the offensive break even faster and he is supposed to have the ball anyways) and on offense he would especially those first 3-4 years in the NBA attack the offensive boards all the time instead of running back to play defense.. both attacked the boards, position is no excuse here...
Also, Magic didnt even touch the PG position until around 1983, during 1980-83 Norm Nixon was the starting PG, Magic started Forward (played a la point-forward)... his season rebound average career high came during that time actually at 9.6 RPG... During those years of not starting PG he averaged between 7.7 - 9.6 rpg...
Larry Bird averaged 10-11 rpg from the get go... his career average is 10.0 rpg...
A more productive rebounder is a more productive rebounder....[/QUOTE]
Magic was the more productive rebounder. Not all rebounds are created equal. When Magic rebounded the opposing team went in panic mode. Magic was an impact rebounder. He unbalanced the floor and could get points off of the rebound unlike any player ever. I doubt that there is a coach around that would want 10 of Bird's rebounds over 8 of Magics. The whole Laker team would lick their lips when Magic would get the rebound. Their juices got flowing. There is no way you could have seen 87 or 85 finals and could possibly think that there was any semblance of their rebounds being equal. Boston got deflated when Magic rebounded or stole the ball and the inverse happened for the Lakers.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Magic was the more productive rebounder. Not all rebounds are created equal. When Magic rebounded the opposing team went in panic mode. Magic was an impact rebounder. He unbalanced the floor and could get points off of the rebound unlike any player ever. I doubt that there is a coach around that would want 10 of Bird's rebounds over 8 of Magics. The whole Laker team would lick their lips when Magic would get the rebound. Their juices got flowing. There is no way you could have seen 87 or 85 finals and could possibly think that there was any semblance of their rebounds being equal. Boston got deflated when Magic rebounded or stole the ball and the inverse happened for the Lakers.[/QUOTE]
I'll take Bird's 10 rpg on great outlet passing over Magic's 7 rpg which may potentially start a fast break. You are forgetting that Bird himself started alot of fastbreaks when he grabbed a rebound with his outlet passing.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Magic was the more productive rebounder. Not all rebounds are created equal. When Magic rebounded the opposing team went in panic mode. Magic was an impact rebounder. He unbalanced the floor and could get points off of the rebound unlike any player ever. I doubt that there is a coach around that would want 10 of Bird's rebounds over 8 of Magics. The whole Laker team would lick their lips when Magic would get the rebound. Their juices got flowing. There is no way you could have seen 87 or 85 finals and could possibly think that there was any semblance of their rebounds being equal. Boston got deflated when Magic rebounded or stole the ball and the inverse happened for the Lakers.[/QUOTE]
:applause: :applause: :applause:
[QUOTE=ShaqAttack3234]
So the best strategy probably was to guard him 1 on 1 and get his. Phoenix did that in '90 when they upset the Lakers. Magic averaged 30, and ended the series with back to back 43 point games, but they lost both and lost in 5. Guarding Magic 1 on 1 most of the time with [B]Dan Majerle seemed to prevent his teammates from going off.[/B] Granted, Hornacek exploiting Magic's defense was also a factor. [/QUOTE]
So let me get this straight, the best way to guard Magic is hold him to 43 ppg while shooting a stellar 55% and this great defense will somehow transfer into Coop, Worthy and Scott missing every shot Magic didn't spoon feed them with? And you wonder why it didn't catch on, huh?
Hornacek wasn't breaking Magic down off of the dribble. Rarely ever did Hornacek get points on the initial defender. He scored like Reggie Miller. Magic was by far the best player in that series. And he was twice as good as any Laker in the series. While Majerle's good defense on Magic was stoping Magic at 43/7/8 we somehow missed how it totally crushed Worthy to 24% shooting in his last 80 minutes.
[QUOTE=eliteballer]:applause: :applause: :applause:[/QUOTE]
:applause: I just don't get how people have Bird over Magic in 82. He averaged basically a triple double.
[QUOTE=1987_Lakers]I'll take Bird's 10 rpg on great outlet passing over Magic's 7 rpg which may potentially start a fast break. You are forgetting that Bird himself started alot of fastbreaks when he grabbed a rebound with his outlet passing.[/QUOTE]
Watch the '85 and '87 finals and you couldn't even pretend they were remotely on the same scale. And you got the screenname to boot. :lol
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Watch the '85 and '87 finals and you couldn't even pretend they were remotely on the same scale. And you got the screenname to boot. :lol[/QUOTE]
Even Bird fans know Magic comes to play in the nba finals/playoffs. He so good in finals they cliamed Magic putting up 18/12/56% is tragic. Magic made a mistake put so did his teammates. 85 n 87 made up for it.
[QUOTE=Round Mound][B][COLOR="darkgreen"]Bird [/COLOR]was A [COLOR="DarkGreen"][U]WAY[/U] [U]BETTER DEFENDER[/U][/COLOR] Than Magic Was[/B]
[B][U]Defensive Rating [/U]
1979-80 NBA 98.2 (6)
1980-81 NBA 98.6 (10)
1981-82 NBA 99.4 (6)
[U][COLOR="Green"]1983-84 NBA 100.8 (2)[/COLOR][/U]
1984-85 NBA 102.8 (9)
1985-86 NBA 99.4 (4)
Career NBA 101.4 (61)
[B][U]NBA & ABA Yearly Playoff Leaders and Records for Defensive Rating[/U][/B]
2012 NBA Josh Smith 93.20 ATL
2011 NBA Dwight Howard 95.73 ORL
2010 NBA Dwight Howard 92.98 ORL
2009 NBA Dwight Howard 98.35 ORL
2008 NBA Tim Duncan 98.51 SAS
2007 NBA Jason Kidd 94.63 NJN
2006 NBA Alonzo Mourning 95.13 MIA
2005 NBA Ben Wallace 93.48 DET
2004 NBA Ben Wallace 83.91 DET
2003 NBA Ben Wallace 90.51 DET
2002 NBA Ben Wallace 86.41 DET
2001 NBA David Robinson* 92.42 SAS
2000 NBA David Robinson* 84.01 SAS
1999 NBA David Robinson* 87.33 SAS
1998 NBA David Robinson* 93.42 SAS
1997 NBA Alonzo Mourning 94.64 MIA
1996 NBA Scottie Pippen* 96.07 CHI
1995 NBA David Robinson* 97.53 SAS
1994 NBA Patrick Ewing* 94.34 NYK
1993 NBA Hakeem Olajuwon* 96.56 HOU
1992 NBA Dennis Rodman* 99.35 DET
1991 NBA Scottie Pippen* 99.52 CHI
1990 NBA Bill Laimbeer 96.32 DET
1989 NBA Dennis Rodman* 99.38 DET
1988 NBA Bill Laimbeer 99.51 DET
1987 NBA Hakeem Olajuwon* 102.24 HOU
1986 NBA Bill Walton* 100.62 BOS
1985 NBA Ralph Sampson* 97.16 HOU
1984 NBA Buck Williams 99.41 NJN
1983 NBA Moses Malone* 95.76 PHI
[COLOR="green"][U]1982 NBA Larry Bird* 94.21 BOS[/U][/COLOR]
1981 NBA Truck Robinson 94.51 PHO
[U][COLOR="green"]1980 NBA Larry Bird* 95.93 BOS[/COLOR][/U]
[U]Defensive Win Shares[/U]
[COLOR="green"]1979-80 NBA 5.6 (1) [/COLOR]
[COLOR="green"][U]1980-81 NBA 6.1 (1) [/U][/COLOR]
1981-82 NBA 5.7 (2)
1982-83 NBA 5.6 (5)
[COLOR="green"][U]1983-84 NBA 5.6 (1) [/U][/COLOR]
1984-85 NBA 5.2 (2)
[COLOR="green"][U]1985-86 NBA 6.2 (1) [/U][/COLOR]
1986-87 NBA 4.8 (6)
Career NBA 59.0 (25)[/B][/QUOTE]
Magic controlled the pace of the game. The game was usually centered around Magic's ability to get the other team off of their game and onto his pace. They had to keep another player at the top of the key in fear of Magic's running ability. So there was always one player compromised on offense because of Magic and five players confused about taking the bait of playing at Magic's pace. Only Nash influenced pace as much as Magic.
[QUOTE=Pointguard]Magic controlled the pace of the game. The game was usually centered around Magic's ability to get the other team off of their game and onto his pace. They had to keep another player at the top of the key in fear of Magic's running ability. So there was always one player compromised on offense because of Magic and five players confused about taking the bait of playing at Magic's pace. Only Nash influenced pace as much as Magic.[/QUOTE]
[B]That`s His Jobe cause he is a Point-Guard. I Know He Influced Pace More Than Any PG Ever (but Maybe Stockton, More than Nash) but Still It Was His Job..While Having Alot of Athletic Players Along Side Him for Break Passes Made It Easier for Himself and His Fellow Teamates.
Still Doesn`t Change the Fact that Bird Had More Impact on Defense than Magic. While Magic Had More Impact on Offense Slightly...Yet Bird Had Both Impacts In the Game While Magic One.[/B]
Bird > Magic
Stockton >>>> Isiah
Nash > Magic
/thread