The difference between LeBron and Jordan..straight to the facts and past the Nikecoms

[QUOTE=DaHeezy]Although it seems hypothetical, it's pretty much reasonable to say this would be a likely scenario. Not just saying Jordan, but for any basketball player with the exception of maybe Shaq, Wilt, Hakeem, or Kareem.
To say Jordan could have carried that squad to a finals is highly unlikely and a very validated statement.[/QUOTE]
Eh...given how weak the East was at the time, I think there's some validity to it. But that's assuming Jordan would face the same or similar competition in the playoffs.

Not saying it'd be a guarantee, but I think there's some versions of Jordan that could get that Cavs team through that weak of an EC, and to the Finals.

[QUOTE=KG215]Eh...given how weak the East was at the time, I think there's some validity to it. But that's assuming Jordan would face the same or similar competition in the playoffs.

Not saying it'd be a guarantee, but I think there's some versions of Jordan that could get that Cavs team through that weak of an EC, and to the Finals.[/QUOTE]

That Cavs team is a mess minus Lebron. I find Jordan is in that similar mold as AI (not saying they're the same player) in which the team needs to have elite role players for him to thrive. Is he capable of carrying this team? Absolutely. But I don't think the team would strive had Jordan have to fill out roles as a facilitator, the primary and only defender, and have to work within the post, not to mention the coaching style.
carry the team? Likely, finals? Longshot.

[QUOTE=DaHeezy]Although it seems hypothetical, it's pretty much reasonable to say this would be a likely scenario. Not just saying Jordan, but for any basketball player with the exception of maybe Shaq, Wilt, Hakeem, or Kareem.
To say Jordan could have carried that squad to a finals is highly unlikely and a very validated statement.[/QUOTE]
07 Lebron wasn't that good relative to his other years

[QUOTE=Bandito]True but in my hypothetical situation I was only talking about game 6 of the 2011 finals, and not really about the results, but more of how they play. If MJ played in that game and lost, do you honestly believe the main reason behind it would be because he gave up ? Or because he got owned by a better team?[/QUOTE]
Ok, I'll give you that. I understand where you're coming from. I honestly don't think any alpha perimeter player would have been able to mesh with Wade quick enough or at all to win the title that year though. Him and Lebron maybe only made it that far the 1st year due to a pre existing friendship. I don't think Wade would have been as willing to share/hand over the reigns to any other star. Would have been an epic implosion I'd guess. Just a shot in the dark though.

[QUOTE=DaHeezy]That Cavs team is a mess minus Lebron. I find Jordan is in that similar mold as AI (not saying they're the same player) in which the team needs to have elite role players for him to thrive. Is he capable of carrying this team? Absolutely. But I don't think the team would strive had Jordan have to fill out roles as a facilitator, the primary and only defender, and have to work within the post, not to mention the coaching style.
carry the team? Likely, finals? Longshot.[/QUOTE]
It'd ultimately depend on what version of Jordan you pick, but there are versions (even pre-championship versions) of Jordan that were a better all-around/two-way player than 2007 LeBron.

how stupid and delusional are kids these days.:roll:

[QUOTE=Dionysus]:lol @ the idea of Jordan carrying a team like the Cavs to the Finals.[/QUOTE]


Prime Dominique Wilkins could carry the Cavs to the 2007 finals in the weak ass Eastern Conference.

[QUOTE=andgar923]
And then there's the most obvious reason as to why MJ didn't grab more rebounds, a reason so obvious a 10 year old will see it as such:

DIFFERENT POSITION

MJ's role is to guard the other wing players so defensively he's already further from the rim. He also has to chase down perimeter players and get position, they're also the first to get down the court and as a perimeter player he's supposed to protect until the bigs get down court.

Bron plays the point FORWARD position. And even tho his game is versatile he eventually has to guard players closer to the basket.

Yet, there's another reason why Bron has more rebounds

[QUOTE=Dionysus]I'm guessing LeBron.

Greatest game 7 player of All Time. Has better Elimination game stats than Jordan and Kobe.

Also has that game 5 vs Pistons, his game 6 vs Celtics, his headband game, and his clutch closer game 7 that has gained him the same amount of titles Jordan had at age 28.[/QUOTE]

Yeah LeBron might be the best player in NBA History when overcoming adversity.

Lets be real what real challenge did the Bulls have in the 90s when they won their titles?

[QUOTE=funnystuff]He's using stats and facts. The only reason you deem it a troll thread is because the stats don't go your way.


@ The man, Jordan would never make the finals if he had Lebrons Cavalier squad. That is what puts Lebron > MJ in terms of player. MJ > Lebron in terms of accolades.[/QUOTE]
1. Speculation, you say he can't, I say he can. Especially considering the EC in 07 was absolute dog shit.

2. From 86-89, the young Jordan led Bulls lost 3 out of those 4 times to the eventual NBA champions, the 86 Celtics and the repeat Pistons. They were losing to great teams, not also rans.

3. Considering that the East was really weak in 07, a Jordan led Cavs get to the Finals and IMO don't get swept...

basketball is a sport that naturally privileges players who plays closer to the rim and occupies the frontcourt because of its idosyncracies and structure. Naturally a shooting guard should have lesser impact on the game than a small forward or power forward. The fact that MJ was able to approximate Lebron's stats from the SG position while still allowing another SF to contribute to the team is significant in and of itself.

All stats needed to be weighted by positions when analyzing value added accounting for team composition.

[QUOTE=TonyMontana]


This is because your looking at those players in hindsight and you get to see how their entire career panned out. Guys like Durant, Rose are still in their early 20s. Their teams could win a string of titles and suddenly just because of that their going to be regarded extremely high.

The truth is Durant is already playing at an extremely level. If there wasn't a LeBron in the league he would get more credit.

Nearly 30 PPG on 50/40/90 splits along with 6'11 height and something like a 7'5 wingspan on defense? He is amazing, and you realize just how few guys have done something like that. He is on par with any individual player from the 90s that Jordan had to play against. AND he actually has a superstar teammate in his prime. Something very few of Jordans opponents had.

[/QUOTE]


It has nothing to do with hindsight. I know Durant will be an all time great and will start winning MVPs and take them away from Lebron going forward. But 21, 23, and 24 year old Durant was too young to start winning them. If you look through the history of the award, they don't usually start giving them to players until they are around 25+. There are a few exceptions like Jordan, Wilt, Lebron, Russell, and Rose, but most of them are top 10 all time material. Rose winning was just an anomaly, and never should have happened. It makes the award a complete joke imo.

Lebron's 2013 season was an all time great season as well, and would have won the award in just about any decade, but of the other 3, I think he would only win 1 of them if he were playing in the 1980s. Most of those seasons would be enough to beat out prime Bird's or Magic's years. Lebron's Cavs would not be winning 60+ games in the 1980s East, so that would take him out of the running much of the time. He's benefited quite a bit from playing in the East while it's been at it's lowest point ever compared to the West.

[QUOTE=TonyMontana]Here is the difference between LeBron and Jordan.

When Jordans Bulls lack interior defenders and rebounders, they become pretenders(As evidenced by Shaq/Horace shitting on them in 1995 when they had no great interior defenders/rebounders).

When LeBrons Heat lack interior defenders and rebounders, LeBron gets his ass in the post and starts getting 10+ boards and guarding David Wests. Because of LeBrons superior physical abilities he is more versatile and able to effect the game in more ways.

As it stands now LeBron is the only perimeter superstar in NBA History to win with a frontcourt that gets abused on a nightyly basis.

Don't even get me started on who is more valuable to their teams. :oldlol:

1993 Bulls with Jordan: [B]57-25[/B]
1994 Bulls w/o Jordan: [B]55-27[/B]

2010 Cavs with LeBron: [B]61-21[/B]
2011 Cavs w/o LeBron: [B]19- 63[/B]
:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Jordan only had to be his teams go to scorer....LeBron has to be his teams go to scorer ON TOP of main playmaker/ball handler, top rebounder, top perimeter defender, top post defender. You name it and LeBron is the best on the Heat at it. And hes still racking up rings. :oldlol:
[/QUOTE]
Well the Heat didn't face anything remotely close to Shaq/Horace so that point is not comparable.

Also the winning difference...in that case Ray Allen was more valuable than Jordan since Seattle lost many more games after he left?

[QUOTE=TonyMontana]Yeah LeBron might be the best player in NBA History when overcoming adversity.

Lets be real what real challenge did the Bulls have in the 90s when they won their titles?[/QUOTE]
Wht challlenge did the Heat had? A team with an average age of 24 and another team with an average age of 38?:roll: :roll: :roll:

Mj played against vets like the Lakers led Magic, Sonics, Jazz and the Blazers, all led by legends like Magic, the glove, the maillman and Stockton,and Drexler. All future and/or current HOF.

Because the 2010 CAVS and the 2011 Cavs were the exact same team minus Lebron :facepalm

The 2010 Cavs starting 5 minus Lebron played a combined 0 minutes together in 2011

In 2011 there was no Shaq, no Big Z, no Delonte, no JJ Hickson, no Danny Green, Andy V got hurt for the season 30 games in, Mo was hurt and traded 30 games in, no mike brown

So they lost their starting Center, their 6th man, their back up Center, their back up power forward, lost Andy V 30 games in on top of losing their big man depth they lost their head coach who had turned them into a defensive juggernaut.

Alot of other things happened other than losing Lebron