Wilt Chamberlain scoring highlights 1960-1968

[QUOTE=Marchesk]Yes, a case can be made for Magic. It's quite similar to the case for Russell. Which is who helped their team win the most over their entire career. And if you say that Magic's team was stacked, then well same goes for Bird and Russell.[/quote]
Magic won 5 rings in 9 trips to the Finals. Russell won 11 rings. Sure, the Celtic's were stacked as f (I don't think anyone will dispute that), but according to most accounts, Russell was THE man for 8-9 rings.

[QUOTE=Marchesk]Kareem absolutely has a case. I don't know how you can say Russell and not Kareem.[/quote]
Simple. Russell won more.

[QUOTE=Marchesk]As for Wilt, well, he's overall better than Russell taking into account all that Wilt could do. But he didn't have the same situation as Russell. So we can say that Russell was the GOAT winner. Okay, and then the next five are all Celtics too. The same team that had one of the GOAT coaches and nine HOFers. Wilt didn't get drafted by the Celtics. You think Russell would have won with those Warriors teams?[/QUOTE]
Hypotheticals. Wilt , considering the amount of hype he get nowadays, should've more than 2 rings. His postseason choking brings him down a couple of places.

MJ is usually regarded as the GOAT because he was flat out dominant on all stages. I don't think I've ever seen MJ choke away a series. He went all out whenever he was on the court. The guy won an MPV at 35 and led his team to the championship. How many others have done that.
Dude is considered to be the GOAT perimeter scorer and one of the GOAT perimeter defenders as well.

[QUOTE=mehyaM24]lmao!!... not gonna happen…..im a bball genius….im a stat genius….im a math genius…nuff said.[/QUOTE]

Yep, that looks like shaqpopcorn :applause:

Dude is HILARIOUS, Yt community... (Not too long ago, maybe still, I was known as the biggest Kobe hater on yt :lol )

[QUOTE=senelcoolidge]GOAT, doesn't that mean the best player ever. Not who won the most championships because he had more teams with better players. Not necessarily the best player on his own.[/QUOTE]
Some people think Bill Russell's ability to win all those championships MAKES him the best player ever, despite not being able to do some of the things others could who played while he played or after. Bob Pettit and many other people such as Gary Payton think Bill Russell is the greatest of all time for this reason. And I don't blame them, Russell really was the reason behind all those Celtics championships, his teammates and peers all agree on this regardless of how many points he scored (btw, most don't give him enough credit there, only scored 6 less PPG than Kareem). I even have an interview where Wilt at that particular interview feels Russell was the greatest of all time (he then clarifies that's just how he feels that day, and he feels picking a GOAT is like picking you're favorite dessert... how can you decide? It could change depending on your mood.)

On the other hand some people think winning doesn't mean much at all and all around abilities and skills are the highest value. This is actually why in the 1980's before MJ even won any titles people were thinking of him as a GOAT caliber player. This is also why people think Oscar Robertson is a GOAT caliber player, as well as Lebron regardless of how many titles he would have ended up with. Oscar himself thinks Elgin Baylor is the GOAT, and if I'm not mistaken, Chick Hearn also said Elgin was the best player he ever saw (actually not sure if Chick believed that made him the 'greatest' though).

Then there are the people who think individual dominance makes you the greatest. Wilt leads everyone by a mile in that category, as guys like Kareem and Barry have explained.

Then finally there's the people that want an all around resume of MVP's, championships, etc and sometimes they want it at 'every level' in which case according to Dr. J, Kareem fits there best.

At the end of the day there are many GOAT candidates depending on your criteria. Any of the major front runners in that class of player has an 'edge' depending on how you favor what goes into making a player so great. I would agree with how Wilt put it, it's like picking you're favorite dessert.

[QUOTE=fpliii]Hm, well I'd break it down to left block, right block, high post, and then whatever else. You actually could do those sections, and maybe put an extra watermark (like the channel logo) in another corner saying which portion it is (maybe list the times when they start in the description, perhaps with a transition between segments)? :confusedshrug:

I guess you could do (just an idea):

• left block
• right block
• high post
• misc. half-court (off. rebounds, alley oops, PnRs)
• transition

[B]BTW is there any good footage of him passing out to shooters[/B] (I know he wasn't blessed with many with the Warriors, but maybe there's some good stuff in the Sixers/Lakers footage), or is it mostly finding cutters?

EDIT: Just saw this:



Screens - Maybe, but I'm not sure where you could include them. The outlet passing would be great if you put it in the transition portion of the video.[/QUOTE]
of course

Also should I separate high post to left and right?

Should outlet passing be lumped with his transition baskets of himself trailing/running the floor since technically an outlet/fastbreak pass is a transition offensive play?

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]of course

Also should I separate high post to left and right?

Should outlet passing be lumped with his transition baskets of himself trailing/running the floor since technically an outlet/fastbreak pass is a transition offensive play?[/QUOTE]
Nice.

Hm I'm not sure. I'd lump the high post plays together but it's up to you.

I'm not sure. I think you could group the outlet passing in, but keep it separate from transition baskets (so maybe consecutive portions).

Here again, CavFan is going to post the most indepth video footage ever of Chamberlain's offensive skills...

but, the fact remains, that we only have a tiny particle of his 1200 NBA games, and a crumb of his 50 college games.

The real question has to be...

just what did Chamberlain's BEST performances look like? His 271 40+ point games? Or his 132 30-30 games? Or his 122 50+ point games? Or his 32 60+ point games? His 73 40-30 games? His 32 50-30 games? How about his 15-15 game from the field, or 16-16 game from the field, or his 18-19 game, or his 18-18 game? Maybe his 29-35 game from the field? How about a few of his 81 triple-doubles (and perhaps as many as 40 quad doubles?) And wouldn't it be nice to have footage of his 22-25-21 game? Or his 53-32-14 triple double game? Maybe his game with a RECORDED 23 blocked shots? Or perhaps a couple of his estimates 30+ block games? Perhaps the six H2H games in which he held KAJ to under .399 shooting? Maybe the game in which he held Russell to 0-14 shooting from the field? Maybe his just one of his several 60+ games against Bellamy, including one with 73 points and 36 rebounds? Or his 38-15 beatdown of Thurmond, or an even more incredible 45 point crushing of Thurmond (outscoring Nate by a 45-13 margin?) Or one of his 12 H2H games against Reed in their 64-65 H2H's, in which Chamberlain was shelling him by margins of 41-9, 52-23, and 58-28? Perhaps his 62 point game against Russell (on 27-45 shooting.) Or maybe his four other 50+ point games he shellacked Russell with. How about his 55-19 rebounding margin over Russell in one H2H?

The point is, there is simply no known footage available, of a truly GREAT Chamberlain. An unequaled Chamberlain. The unfathomable Chamberlain.

THAT is the footage that we really need...

[QUOTE=dankok8]A lot of animosity in this thread for Fatal9 who is dubbed "a Wilt hater". Truth you may not agree with what the man said but he backed up his opinions with facts and sound logic. I mean are Regul8r, ShaqAttack, PTB Fan etc. all bad posters because they don't think Wilt is the greatest scorer and player? Before you call out others for being biased consider your own personal biases.

As for the OP's video, it's very well done. I've seen most of the footage before since it comes from games that are available but it's well put together. Watching all the available games I've always praised Wilt's coordination, excellent hands, and athleticism. This video definitely sells those points.

[B]I do think Chamberlain lags significantly behind Hakeem and Kareem as far as footwork, fluidity, and variety of moves/counter-moves[/B]. Then again it's isn't really a diss. Skills are only the means to an end! Wilt did pretty damn well scoring the ball. The results matter.[/QUOTE]

Read my post directly above this one...

Fpliii how about for structuring the video:

Left block

Right block

Lobs and Offensive rebounds

Transition

High Post

2 man game (Give and go's and Pick and Rolls)

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Fpliii how about for structuring the video:

Left block

Right block

Lobs and Offensive rebounds

Transition

High Post

2 man game (Give and go's and Pick and Rolls)[/QUOTE]
Sounds good. Great way to mix it up. :cheers:

For the final video, can you include start times in the description for each section?

Thanks again for your hard work!

[QUOTE=fpliii]Sounds good. Great way to mix it up. :cheers:

For the final video, can you include start times in the description for each section?

Thanks again for your hard work![/QUOTE]
Yeah I can do that. Going to separate lobs and offensive rebounds I've decided after watching some lumped together, they don't look right together. Some great post moves that he initially missed but rebounded immediately himself I'm probably going to put into their appropriate block position section if move was more highlight worthy than the rebound.

Still not sure how I should tie in passing actually. Trying to wrap my head around how I would include passes if I separated give and go and pick and roll footage of him scoring... would that then mean I should put his give and go footage in that 2 man section if he's the assist man even if he's set up in the block or high post which has it's own sections? Just figuring out how to structure this video to present his offensive abilities takes a bit more critical thinking than I anticipated. I'm essentially trying to group and organize plays in a game that is very dynamic into a small number of categories but there always seems to be some grey area.

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Yeah I can do that. Going to separate lobs and offensive rebounds I've decided after watching some lumped together, they don't look right together. Some great post moves that he initially missed but rebounded immediately himself I'm probably going to put into their appropriate block position section if move was more highlight worthy than the rebound.

Still not sure how I should tie in passing actually. Trying to wrap my head around how I would include passes if I separated give and go and pick and roll footage of him scoring... would that then mean I should put his give and go footage in that 2 man section if he's the assist man even if he's set up in the block or high post which has it's own sections? Just figuring out how to structure this video to present his offensive abilities takes a bit more critical thinking than I anticipated. I'm essentially trying to group and organize plays in a game that is very dynamic into a small number of categories but there always seems to be some grey area.[/QUOTE]
Good question, I'm not sure. Maybe you could just structure by where Wilt is when the play begins? So if there's a five and go from the left block, include it in that section I think. You have a better creative mind than I do though, so I think you'll figure something out.
[QUOTE=LAZERUSS]Here again, CavFan is going to post the most indepth video footage ever of Chamberlain's offensive skills...

but, the fact remains, that we only have a tiny particle of his 1200 NBA games, and a crumb of his 50 college games.

The real question has to be...

just what did Chamberlain's BEST performances look like? His 271 40+ point games? Or his 132 30-30 games? Or his 122 50+ point games? Or his 32 60+ point games? His 73 40-30 games? His 32 50-30 games? How about his 15-15 game from the field, or 16-16 game from the field, or his 18-19 game, or his 18-18 game? Maybe his 29-35 game from the field? How about a few of his 81 triple-doubles (and perhaps as many as 40 quad doubles?) And wouldn't it be nice to have footage of his 22-25-21 game? Or his 53-32-14 triple double game? Maybe his game with a RECORDED 23 blocked shots? Or perhaps a couple of his estimates 30+ block games? Perhaps the six H2H games in which he held KAJ to under .399 shooting? Maybe the game in which he held Russell to 0-14 shooting from the field? Maybe his just one of his several 60+ games against Bellamy, including one with 73 points and 36 rebounds? Or his 38-15 beatdown of Thurmond, or an even more incredible 45 point crushing of Thurmond (outscoring Nate by a 45-13 margin?) Or one of his 12 H2H games against Reed in their 64-65 H2H's, in which Chamberlain was shelling him by margins of 41-9, 52-23, and 58-28? Perhaps his 62 point game against Russell (on 27-45 shooting.) Or maybe his four other 50+ point games he shellacked Russell with. How about his 55-19 rebounding margin over Russell in one H2H?

The point is, there is simply no known footage available, of a truly GREAT Chamberlain. An unequaled Chamberlain. The unfathomable Chamberlain.

THAT is the footage that we really need...[/QUOTE]
I guess we don't have anything from his best games, but aren't clips from that game against Detroit, and the highlights of him with his facemask from pretty good games? I think they're at least from his absolutely prime, right?

[QUOTE=fpliii]Good question, I'm not sure. Maybe you could just structure by where Wilt is when the play begins? So if there's a five and go from the left block, include it in that section I think. You have a better creative mind than I do though, so I think you'll figure something out.

I guess we don't have anything from his best games, but aren't clips from that game against Detroit, and the highlights of him with his facemask from pretty good games? I think they're at least from his absolutely prime, right?[/QUOTE]

No. Highlights of Chamberlain don't begin to do justice to him. Video clips of blocked shots or slam dunks or even these great studies that Cavs is doing just don't show what made 13 the greatest.
It was his ability to completely overshadow the game for several minutes at a time. As a 3rd quarter would go along, he would get more and more remorseless, until it was just brutal. Not just blocking shots, but stopping [I]every[/I] shot inside of 15 feet. The snap passes that usually throw a defense into disarray would fail against the Sixers because he and Chet Walker could switch back and forth so quickly that there was just no shot to be had. After 3 or 4 minutes of that TOTAL denial of shots you could see the complete intimidation on the faces of the other team.

On the other end........ you know, people make a big deal about somebody like Mattie Guokas saying something like "Chamberlain always insisted they wait for him to get down the court on offense so he would get an assist."

Lemme tell you, if that [I]was[/I] Wilt & not Hannum maiking that decision, well, Chamberlain was absolutely correct in doing that because Guokas was a true scrub, on the court purely to give somebody 2 minutes of deep breathing on the bench. NOBODY wanted Guokas running anything, least of all Alex Hannum. Whenever Coach put that guy in the game he'd start pacing and looking at the clock, wishing the time would go faster so he could get a real player back in the game. Chamberlain threw a lot of deep passes and ran a lot of transition off his rebounds... just not to somebody like Mattie Guokas.

In '68 Wilt had mastered the all round game to the point where his triple double threat was so dangerous that despair set in for other NBA teams. Mailing it in became a major pastime for teams that went to Philly.

Highlights don't begin to show those kinds of things.

[QUOTE=La Frescobaldi]No. Highlights of Chamberlain don't begin to do justice to him. Video clips of blocked shots or slam dunks or even these great studies that Cavs is doing just don't show what made 13 the greatest.
It was his ability to completely overshadow the game for several minutes at a time. As a 3rd quarter would go along, he would get more and more remorseless, until it was just brutal. Not just blocking shots, but stopping [I]every[/I] shot inside of 15 feet. The snap passes that usually throw a defense into disarray would fail against the Sixers because he and Chet Walker could switch back and forth so quickly that there was just no shot to be had. After 3 or 4 minutes of that TOTAL denial of shots you could see the complete intimidation on the faces of the other team.

On the other end........ you know, people make a big deal about somebody like Mattie Guokas saying something like "Chamberlain always insisted they wait for him to get down the court on offense so he would get an assist."

Lemme tell you, if that [I]was[/I] Wilt & not Hannum maiking that decision, well, Chamberlain was absolutely correct in doing that because Guokas was a true scrub, on the court purely to give somebody 2 minutes of deep breathing on the bench. NOBODY wanted Guokas running anything, least of all Alex Hannum. Whenever Coach put that guy in the game he'd start pacing and looking at the clock, wishing the time would go faster so he could get a real player back in the game. Chamberlain threw a lot of deep passes and ran a lot of transition off his rebounds... just not to somebody like Mattie Guokas.

In '68 Wilt had mastered the all round game to the point where his triple double threat was so dangerous that despair set in for other NBA teams. Mailing it in became a major pastime for teams that went to Philly.

Highlights don't begin to show those kinds of things.[/QUOTE]
Cool, thanks for the response. :cheers:

Guys, what is it called if the center/big never quite sets up in the post offensively and your guard runs up the floor with the ball and your center starts rolling to the hoop as the guard draws the defense running across the court then he kicks it out to the rolling big man for an easy dunk... it's not a pick and roll because no pick was set it's just like, the guard drew the defense and kicked it - what is that play called? Not sure whether to group that type of play into "transition" or "2 man (Pick & Rolls and Give and Go's)" sections. Wilt clearly rolled to the hoop while he and his guard played a 2 man game... but the guard seemed to be rolling up the court in transition (as the last man though, the entire rest of the team was already down the floor including Wilt) so... I don't know?

*EDIT* I'm gonna upload the clip... easier to show than to describe :lol

[QUOTE=CavaliersFTW]Guys, what is it called if the center/big never quite sets up in the post offensively and your guard runs up the floor with the ball and your center starts rolling to the hoop as the guard draws the defense running across the court then he kicks it out to the rolling big man for an easy dunk... it's not a pick and roll because no pick was set it's just like, the guard drew the defense and kicked it - what is that play called? Not sure whether to group that type of play into "transition" or "2 man (Pick & Rolls and Give and Go's)" sections. Wilt clearly rolled to the hoop while he and his guard played a 2 man game... but the guard seemed to be rolling up the court in transition (as the last man though, the entire rest of the team was already down the floor including Wilt) so... I don't know?[/QUOTE]
How far out was he? Is it like a drive and kick?