cp3 vs kidd vs payton

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Dude...you aren't listening. We know Kobe played poorly, I'm asking you why you think even if he played as well as he did in the 08 finals...that would be good enough?

I'm not disputing Kobe played poorly, I'm saying he could have played quite better and it still not have been good enough.[/quote]
Why do you keep bringing up the stats form '08 and the series in general? Kobe could've dumped it into the post more, whenever he was getting doubled. He could've also passed it more to open players when he was getting doubled at the half court. It's not just stats. It's about how you play the game.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]And you've given no arguments at all...you just keep saying Kobe was bad on repeat.[/QUOTE]
I don't think you actually understand basketball. It's not just stats. You also can't compare stats from different series, in basically different defensive eras, without any context.

[QUOTE=aj1987]Why do you keep bringing up the stats form '08 and the series in general? Kobe could've dumped it into the post more, whenever he was getting doubled. He could've also passed it more to open players when he was getting doubled at the half court. It's not just stats. It's about how you play the game.


I don't think you actually understand basketball. It's not just stats. You also can't compare stats from different series, in basically different defensive eras, without any context.[/QUOTE]

I'm not comparing "the stats"...I'm saying that Kobe playing at his 08 level still wouldn't have been good enough. Dumping it into Shaq more would have helped, but I don't think you are grasping the difference in that series on both sides of the ball. Those Lakers weren't an elite offense to begin with...with a 105.5 regular season ortg....good for 6th in the league. Now you think they are going above that against the Pistons? Why?

You have to give the Pistons credit...they were an all time great defense. And they were scoring at a clip of 106.7 offensive rating. It's no realistic to think the Lakers jump up over 10 points on offensive rating in your scenario.

Again, you can't just ignore that the Pistons were the cause of Kobe doing some of the things he was doing.

And finally, the nail in your coffin...is game 2. Everything you could ever ask for happened that game and the Lakers still needed overtime to win.

[QUOTE=DMAVS41][B]Those Lakers weren't an elite offense to begin with[/B]...with a 105.5 regular season ortg....good for [B]6th in the league[/B]. Now you think they are going above that against the Pistons? Why?[/QUOTE]
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

I'm done. Your Kobe hate is beyond irrational.

[QUOTE=aj1987]:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

I'm done. Your Kobe hate is beyond irrational.[/QUOTE]

What?

And why do you think that is hating? What I said were facts.

Go look at the playoffs in each series. I don't even have to. I know they were pretty good offensively against the wolves, and average at best vs the Rockets and Spurs.

Seriously....what are you talking about?

[QUOTE=KungFuJoe]Payton getting seriously overrated. He's on a tier below CP3 and Kidd. Great defender and good scorer but not near the floor general that CP3 and Kidd are.

To me CP3 is the best. Then Kidd but it's close.[/QUOTE]

stop. go watch some film before you spew nonsense.

cp3 is easily the worst of the bunch. if you had gary payton, jason kidd, and cp3 all lined up in front of you, then cp3 would be picked last every single time.

[QUOTE=aj1987]I've said it like a dozen times. Kobe was trying to be the man and he let his ego get in the way. If you actually saw the series, you'd know it as well. Dude was basically chucking the ball. Trying to score whenever he got it. There's no way ANY team could hold him to those numbers over a span of 5 games.[/QUOTE]

Lets say you're right and Kobe was making poor decisions. What alternative actually turns the tide in that series? Shaq was simply NOT going to turn the tide with more touches. I'm not sure if he was just still not in game shape after a whole season or if he'd just gotten too old, but either way he was NOT going to turn that series. The pistons defense was too good.

Payton and Malone both shot 33% or less. Devan George was under 40% shooting. Those were your next 3 guys in minutes played in that series. Fisher your 6th man was again under 33%. Hell rick fox was the ONLY guy on their bench to shoot over 50%...but he wasn't just the only over 50%, he was the only guy over 40%!

More to the point do you think the pistons were just letting kobe drop the ball to shaq with ease?

[QUOTE=dhsilv]Lets say you're right and Kobe was making poor decisions. What alternative actually turns the tide in that series? Shaq was simply NOT going to turn the tide with more touches. I'm not sure if he was just still not in game shape after a whole season or if he'd just gotten too old, but either way he was NOT going to turn that series. The pistons defense was too good.

Payton and Malone both shot 33% or less. Devan George was under 40% shooting. Those were your next 3 guys in minutes played in that series. Fisher your 6th man was again under 33%. Hell rick fox was the ONLY guy on their bench to shoot over 50%...but he wasn't just the only over 50%, he was the only guy over 40%!

More to the point do you think the pistons were just letting kobe drop the ball to shaq with ease?[/QUOTE]
Shaq was 2nd in MVP voting the next season and was putting up 23/11/3 on 60% the next season.

How the years years change the status of teams. :oldlol:

[QUOTE=aj1987]Shaq was 2nd in MVP voting the next season and was putting up 23/11/3 on 60% the next season.

How the years years change the status of teams. :oldlol:[/QUOTE]

Could you explain why you think the Lakers would somehow start playing better offense than they did all year, including the playoffs, against one of the best defensive teams ever...and a team perfectly suited to guard both Kobe and Shaq?

Please answer...

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Could you explain why you think the Lakers would somehow start playing better offense than they did all year, including the playoffs, against one of the best defensive teams ever...and a team perfectly suited to guard both Kobe and Shaq?

Please answer...[/QUOTE]
If you think the 6th best offensive team in the league is not a good offensive team, than you really need to learn more about basketball.

[QUOTE=aj1987]If you think the 6th best offensive team in the league is not a good offensive team, than you really need to learn more about basketball.[/QUOTE]

Straw man argument. I said they weren't elite...I never said they weren't "good"...

Please respond with substance.

Payton > Kidd > Nash > CP3

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Straw man argument.

Please respond with substance.[/QUOTE]
:biggums:

Are you drunk or high?

[QUOTE=aj1987]:biggums:

Are you drunk or high?[/QUOTE]

Are you?

[QUOTE=DMAVS41]Are you?[/QUOTE]
:facepalm

Great discussion...we should take you seriously from now on.

Does it make you feel better or worse that everyone here knows you got killed in the debate and are very aware of the BS straw man arguments and ad hominem you just pulled?