Tim Duncan is greater than Shaq, and here are the numbers to PROVE it

[QUOTE=Force]You're an idiot. Shaq dominance wasn't just based on his size. Whats amazing is what he was able to do at his size. Look at his amazing footwork. It might be 20 years until we see a guy who is 350 pounds who has quick footwork like that. Also, how often do you see a guy that big who can get the ball and just go up and score right away??? Take a look at guys like Mutombo, Zo, Big Z, basically, pick 99% of any center you want from the history of the league. Now think about slow they are when it comes to gathering up the ball and then going up for a dunk or lay up, plus they were all much lighter than Shaq. Plus Shaq did this at 350 pounds!!! I used to always cringe when I saw centers get the ball under the rim, and then take what felt like 2 seconds just to secure the ball and bend their knees to get ready to jump. Just because you're big it doesn't mean you should kill everyone. He's an anomaly. He really is. A guy that size who can get the ball, take a jumpstop and go up and bang it whoever is in front of him...nobody has ever been able to do that the same way. There is a reason why Shaq has gotten doubled teamed more than any other big man in the history of the league.[/QUOTE]

Dominant or no, his career numbers and accomplishments don't lie, and Tim Duncan has had easily had the better career (see page 1 of this thread for comparisons). Also, don't use unprovable, subjective jargon like "Shaq has gotten double teamed more than...in the history of the league." It's too subjective, and destroys your credibility.

[QUOTE=D

[QUOTE=D

:pimp:

[QUOTE=poeticism707]:pimp:[/QUOTE]
I like how you're ignoring Don's post where he owned you...

Shaq was better in his prime but Duncan may still end up having the better career. Normally I give it to the guy with the best prime, like Isiah over Stockton, but since both these guys are proven champions have been the best in the league, if Duncan does it for longer and wins more rings I gotta give the better career title to him. It'll take a couple more great seasons though.

Duncan not winning a single DPOY award in his career yet is a huge travesty.

Spurs defensive rankings
97-98: 2nd
98-99: 1st
99-00: 1st
00-01: 1st
01-02: 1st
02-03: 3rd
03-04: 1st
04-05: 1st
05-06: 1st
06-07: 2nd

Over that span, only two players have averaged more defensive rpg, and only four players have averaged more bpg.

Duncan should have multiple DPOY awards by now. It's a shame the best defensive player of his generation by far may never have a DPOY to show for it. In fact, he's only twice finished as high as 3rd in DPOY voting.

[QUOTE=beau_boy04]Duncan not winning a single DPOY award in his career yet is a huge travesty.

Spurs defensive rankings
97-98: 2nd
98-99: 1st
99-00: 1st
00-01: 1st
01-02: 1st
02-03: 3rd
03-04: 1st
04-05: 1st
05-06: 1st
06-07: 2nd

Over that span, only two players have averaged more defensive rpg, and only four players have averaged more bpg.

Duncan should have multiple DPOY awards by now. It's a shame the best defensive player of his generation by far may never have a DPOY to show for it. In fact, he's only twice finished as high as 3rd in DPOY voting.[/QUOTE]

Are you basing it off of PPG? Or a combination of stats. Cause I believe we actually ended this year 1st in points allowed. Not sure though.

^^

i think having bowen on his team steals potential voters from him and vice versa. i don't think it's right, but i do think that's the case. the credit gets spread between them.

[QUOTE=dejordan]^^

i think having bowen on his team steals potential voters from him and vice versa. i don't think it's right, but i do think that's the case. the credit gets spread between them.[/QUOTE]

Which is kinda stupid, because the only reason Bruce Bowen can be so aggressive is because he knows Timmy will be there to help him if he messes up. Tim creates jump shots for Bowen to defend because people just really don't want to take it inside on him.

[QUOTE=Timmy D for MVP]Which is kinda stupid, because the only reason Bruce Bowen can be so aggressive is because he knows Timmy will be there to help him if he messes up. Tim creates jump shots for Bowen to defend because people just really don't want to take it inside on him.[/QUOTE]
completely agree. bruce is able to body up like crazy because it barely matters if he gets beat off the dribble.

:sleeping

As to Don's misguided attempt to explain away Tim Duncan's many more first team all nba and first team all defense selection, consider the following. Just because TD had 2 opportunities (forward) to Shaq's 1 on first team all nba (the center), doesn't mean Shaq was robbed or TD benefited at all. Consider, since TD has been in the league 10 years, with 9 first team all nba selections. When in that time has he EVER utilized the "2nd" forward position, meaning another forward was ranked ahead of him? Only once, and most and arguably twice: last year injured with plantarfaciatius in his foot (2nd team all nba, ONLY year he's missed it), and very arguably the year KG won MVP (2004, hence making TD the "second forward" in the NBA, if he were Shaq at center he wouldn't have made it). Even with these two exceptions, and one being very arguable, Tim Duncan would still lead Shaq in first team all nba 8-7, and that's in 5 less years.

Also, we don't even need to discuss First Team All Defense, where Tim Duncan destroys Shaq 7-0, and Shaq has a pathetic 3 CAREER 2nd team all defense. Shaq is so bad defensively, he would never have made the first team even at forward either. Examining their careers comparatively, there can be only one conclusion: Tim Duncan is greater than Shaq, and here are the numbers to prove it! (TD is on the verge of winning another title and finals mvp this year, which will be icing on the cake.):cheers:

Duncan'll have the same amount of rings after this year. I think Shaq will still always be better.

Stop bringing this **** back up poeticism. It's dead. No one wants to argue with you, and no one cares how you use emotions ever second posts because you have nothing else to say.