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[QUOTE] JD Shaw: The [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Timberwolves have officially signed Bryn Forbes.[/URL] Forbes was important during the Bucks’ 2021 title run. He split time with the Spurs and Nuggets last season, averaging 8.8 points on 41% shooting from deep.
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/JShawNBA"]Twitter JShawNBA[/URL]
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good fit with Rudy
I think Butler can shoot? Juzang looked better including putting the game away for them after they almost blew it. He moves good with and without the ball. Funderburke played hard and with a lot of energy. Tacko isn't an NBAer at that size Maybe with the Stars? Got some good bigs. Bolmaro fills the box score. Hopefully they can figure out his shot!
[URL]https://kslsports.com/489435/walker-kessler-perfected-shot-blocking-watching-gobert/[/URL]
I was real impressed by him. Smart kid! Looks like he'll need to get stronger. Might be just the guy to lead the D for years to come? Can't wait to see him play in October!
[url]https://www.deseret.com/2022/7/11/23204156/are-the-utah-jazz-winners-or-losers-in-free-agency-so-far-what-national-media-say-nba-rudy-gobert[/url]
[QUOTE]“If Mitchell eventually asks out, he’ll bring back an even bigger haul and Utah will be armed to the teeth for a full-scale rebuild,” Botkin wrote.
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not convinced he will bring back more. He's not worth as much as the Hawks gave up for Dejounte. He's a one trick pony When the Jazz suck this year with their new leader and he's not an all star anymore his value will drop
[QUOTE]“This is a freaking haul for a Jazz franchise that has Mitchell, a first-round pick in 2023 (courtesy of Thursday’s Royce O’Neale trade) and all its own first-round picks minus a top-10 protected selection in 2024 that will go to the Thunder if it’s No. 11 or higher (which doesn’t seem likely),” Pina wrote. “Without Gobert, next season Utah will become one of the worst teams in the Western Conference. And before Mitchell’s current contract expires, there’s a decent chance Ainge flips him for [I]another[/I] desirable package.
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I'd expect them to be one of the 10 worst teams in 2024. They will be tanking by the trade deadline this season
[URL]https://www.deseret.com/2022/7/11/23204156/are-the-utah-jazz-winners-or-losers-in-free-agency-so-far-what-national-media-say-nba-rudy-gobert[/URL]
[QUOTE]“If Mitchell eventually asks out, he’ll bring back an even bigger haul and Utah will be armed to the teeth for a full-scale rebuild,” Botkin wrote.
[/QUOTE]
not convinced he will bring back more. He's not worth as much as the Hawks gave up for Dejounte. He's a one trick pony When the Jazz suck this year with their new leader and he's not an all star anymore his value will drop
[QUOTE]“This is a freaking haul for a Jazz franchise that has Mitchell, a first-round pick in 2023 (courtesy of Thursday’s Royce O’Neale trade) and all its own first-round picks minus a top-10 protected selection in 2024 that will go to the Thunder if it’s No. 11 or higher (which doesn’t seem likely),” Pina wrote. “Without Gobert, next season Utah will become one of the worst teams in the Western Conference. And before Mitchell’s current contract expires, there’s a decent chance Ainge flips him for [I]another[/I] desirable package.
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I'd expect them to be one of the 10 worst teams in 2024. They will be tanking by the trade deadline this season
[QUOTE]“Regardless, this was a masterful job by Ainge and the rest of Utah’s front office to squeeze every last drop of value from a center who already gave that team so much. They’re set up for great things down the line.”
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he hasn't declined yet. Still improving. Not every last drop. They wasted almost every drop in the Gobert era not putting a team around him!
[QUOTE]“Barring some other dramatic moves this offseason or miraculous improvements from players still on the roster, Utah is going to be worse over the next couple of seasons,” Bailey wrote.
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if it's only a couple years bravo! You've got to get a player to build around and that can take more than a couple. Mitchell isn't that guy
[QUOTE]“And if steering toward mediocrity gives Donovan Mitchell an excuse to [URL="https://www.actionnetwork.com/nba/nba-intel-trade-rumors-draft-intel-early-free-agency-targets-2022-matt-moore"]ask[/URL] for a trade to a bigger market, this deal could feel like even more of a loss.”
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let them have him if he wants
[QUOTE]Unlike other analysts, writers Cydney Henderson and Jeff Zillgitt did not classify the Jazz as either a winner or loser so far. Rather, [URL="https://sports.yahoo.com/nba-free-agency-early-winners-174222712.html"]Utah was designated a To Be Determined[/URL] for its offseason efforts.
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which is correct
[url]https://saltcityhoops.com/the-mitchell-question-is-central-to-utahs-post-gobert-path/[/url]
[QUOTE]In the 43 seasons the Jazz have belonged to Utah, just three of the franchise’s players have achieved all-league status at least four separate times: Karl Malone (14), John Stockton (11) and a certain Frenchman who’s suddenly figuring out how to forward mail to Minneapolis.
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but it's time to build around someone that has 0!!! :coleman:
[QUOTE]In other words, being competitive without Rudy Gobert on the roster is going to be a challenge. According to various stats that attempt to apportion credit for a team’s record (EPM, RPM, RAPTOR, Win Shares, LEBRON, etc.), the Jazz have gotten a bonus of somewhere between 10 and 17 wins just by having the Stifle Tower on their roster. Over the past five seasons combined, only three players have impacted winning more than Gobert as measured by [URL="http://nbashotcharts.com/rapm5?id=-1129977058"]luck-adjusted Regularized Adjusted Plus-Minus[/URL]: Giannis Antetokounmpo, Steph Curry and Nikola Jokic, who have six MVPs between them.
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overpaid at less than full super max!!! :lol
[QUOTE]Indeed, plugged-in folks tell me that the Jazz are not done roster-building yet. They’re just also not in a massive hurry.
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obviously
[QUOTE]That’s why I’ll stop short of guaranteeing that Mitchell doesn’t change addresses this summer; stuff changes constantly. As high as the bar ultimately was for the Jazz to move Gobert, I’d guess the threshold is similar or even higher for a Mitchell deal. There’s growing evidence to suggest that teams offering a bunch of decent-ish stuff for Mitchell just [URL="https://twitter.com/TheNBACentral/status/1546288799663230976?s=20&t=xMtXLjif6gkxMijuJLN4ZA"]aren’t even in the ballpark[/URL], at least for now. That could change in a hurry… or not.
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they'll ask for more than he's worth and probably get it because of the hype and the fact that there are a lot of stupid front offices
[QUOTE]If it does change, the Jazz could suddenly find themselves in the middle of an honest-to-goodness rebuild. Many fans have noticed that it seems like a good year to dip into the lottery, with eight or nine potential stars atop the 2023 draft. But again, that doesn’t appear to be the way franchise brass are talking at the moment.
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I think that is exactly where they're aiming with 3 picks already
[QUOTE]If we take Zanik’s “primary players” designation to mean they want at least a borderline star to pair with Mitchell, the potential target list starts to get more finite. And where that circle overlaps on the Venn diagram with “bigger players” and “realistically gettable,” there are some obvious names to start with — though to be clear, these are purely this writer’s speculation. John Collins is still sitting there despite the whole world knowing of Atlanta’s desire to move on. Is he enough of a star at this point to fit the label? How much would the Jazz have to give up to get Turner on an expiring deal? Is Harrison Barnes more available than he was at the trade deadline? Is Toronto intent on keeping its glut of wings? Or is someone else available that we don’t know about? If that tier of player is unrealistic, there are non-star difference-makers who could help make Utah bigger and younger, if they’re available: P.J. Washington, Larry Nance, Jakob Poeltl, Kenrich Williams.
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Their borderline star is Bojan. Bojan and Mitchell don't win. Don't think any of those guys and Mitchell do but I like the thought of Collins
[QUOTE]Mitchell’s regular season stats plateaued last year, and then he had what could be accurately described as his worst postseason as a pro, especially struggling with defense, outside shooting, and some aspects of playmaking. But overall, he’s a player who’s still climbing. A new ecosystem could provide the backdrop for another mini-leap, and honestly Mitchell crossing that last tier into All-NBA waters is probably the only way of staying truly relevant in the short term. That’s a lot to ask of the young man, essentially saying he has to be an MVP candidates or the Jazz will backtrack — but that’s about the shape of it.
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was awful after the break. This is what everyone should be talking about!
[url]https://thejnotes.com/2022/07/11/3-power-forwards-the-utah-jazz-could-target-in-a-trade/[/url]
[QUOTE]This is the most unlikely trade on the list, as although the draft picks would help Philly acquire a star alongside their two big names, they are likely just looking to make that happen in one trade, but if Utah can get the 76ers talking, they should certainly be trying to target pairing Tobias Harris with Donovan Mitchell going forward.
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Mitchell/Harris on max deals? Harris might make more? Can't see them winning many games
[QUOTE]The Knicks may not look to part with Randle for scraps, but if the Jazz are happy to offload some first round picks and a talented name or two like Malik Beasley, Leandro Bolmaro or other young players acquired in the trade, there’s a possibility that the Knicks take that deal and look to use all those picks to acquire a star. His fit alongside Mitchell, Bogdanovic and Mike Conley isn’t the worst, and if he can get back to form away from the spotlight in Utah, the Jazz may be on the precipice of taking the next step forward.
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he's a little more intriguing because he did carry the Knicks a couple years ago. Last year would make me pause though!
[QUOTE]Collins has been rumoured to be available for a while now, and if the Jazz can find the right deal, along with Mitchell, Bogdanovic and the talented bench that Utah possess, this could be a team that has potential to do some damage when it matters most in the next few seasons.
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He makes less than max! who will carry this team though?
[url]https://thejnotes.com/2022/07/12/utah-jazz-change-name/[/url]
That time has passed. Should have done it when they moved here
[QUOTE]Joey Lynn: [URL="http://twitter.com/joeylinn_/status/1546929769001799680?s=21&t=4uZhb20tAc67BedbtKz9Mw"]Sounds like Pat Bev is waiting for the Utah Jazz to decide which direction their franchise is going. “Utah ya’ll tryna win or ya’ll tryna tank,[/URL] let me know… We gon take Utah all the way, or Utah gon say they don’t need me and we can go somewhere else?”
[HR][/HR] [INDENT] Sounds like Pat Bev is waiting for the Utah Jazz to decide which direction their franchise is going.
“Utah ya’ll tryna win or ya’ll tryna tank, let me know… We gon take Utah all the way, or Utah gon say they don’t need me and we can go somewhere else?” [URL="https://t.co/MHe6c5Nv7t"]pic.twitter.com/MHe6c5Nv7t[/URL]
— Joey Linn (@joeylinn_) [URL="https://twitter.com/joeylinn_/status/1546929769001799680?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw"]July 12, 2022[/URL]
[/INDENT][/QUOTE]
I'd think he and Conley will be gone. They say the window closed and than go get a new coach and Beverley and Beasley :facepalm
[QUOTE] Ira Winderman: Spoke to a Western Conference scout today here in Vegas about Donovan Mitchell. He said he has heard Heat have made interest clear. [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]The long-time scout said he would move Herro in such a deal. (Robinson, picks likely also would have to go out.)[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/IraHeatBeat"]Twitter IraHeatBeat[/URL]
Tony Jones: Let’s be clear about this: the [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Jazz are currently not close to a Donovan Mitchell trade.[/URL] And much like Gobert, they have no issues whatsoever in keeping him. Either a team is going to meet the bar to make this a convo, or he will be with the Jazz. They are not giving him away
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba"]Twitter Tjonesonthenba[/URL]
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I think Herro could be the better player. This could be a good deal
[QUOTE] Tony Jones: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Expect the New York Knicks to quickly try and put together a package for Donovan Mitchell, according to league sources.[/URL] Utah’s bar for Trading Mitchell is sky high. But the Knicks are the team that has the assets to make this a conversation [URL]https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba/status/1546975643300028416[/URL]
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/Tjonesonthenba"]Twitter Tjonesonthenba[/URL]
Adrian Wojnarowski: The asking price appears to be steep, but in the wake of Utah’s recent Rudy Gobert blockbuster deal to Minnesota, the [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]Jazz are no longer simply dismissing calls on Mitchell,[/URL] sources said.
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/wojespn"]Twitter wojespn[/URL]
Adrian Wojnarowski: [URL="https://*********.com/social/"]The Jazz are open to trades across the entire roster too,[/URL] but Mitchell is certainly the organization’s most valuable and coveted asset.
– via [URL="https://twitter.com/wojespn"]Twitter wojespn[/URL]
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Knicks still want him after getting Brunson? Mitchell Robinson, Barrett...
The [URL="https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2022/07/how-donovan-mitchell-trade-possibilities-impact-celtics-offseason-outlook.html"]Celtics are not expected to have interest in dealing for Mitchell per league sources given the high price tag and their recent offseason moves.[/URL] However, a number of Eastern Conference rivals are expected to make plays for Mitchell. Let’s take a closer look at some of the possibilities in play on that front and what they could mean for the Celtics.
– via [URL="https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2022/07/how-donovan-mitchell-trade-possibilities-impact-celtics-offseason-outlook.html"]Brian Robb @ Booth Newspapers[/URL]
The Celtics ideal scenario would be a lesser East squad such as the Knicks to put themselves in play for the high scoring guard, keeping Miami from firmly re-establishing themselves as a top contender in the East with another star acquisition. [URL="https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2022/07/how-donovan-mitchell-trade-possibilities-impact-celtics-offseason-outlook.html"]Other wildcard candidates out West would need to be considered as well (Dallas?) but a lot of teams around the league have already used assets on big names this summer in separate deals (Atlanta, Minnesota, etc.)[/URL]
– via [URL="https://www.masslive.com/celtics/2022/07/how-donovan-mitchell-trade-possibilities-impact-celtics-offseason-outlook.html"]Brian Robb @ Booth Newspapers[/URL]
[QUOTE] [URL="https://www.eurohoops.net/en/national-teams/1368140/joel-embiid-was-granted-french-citizenship/"]Joel Embiid officially received his French citizenship,[/URL] validated by the official gazette of the French Republic (Journal Officiel de la République Française) on June 4, according to a report by bebasket.fr. Cameroon-born Embiid was a strong MVP candidate during the 2021-22 NBA season with the Philadelphia 76ers, leading the league with 30.6 points scored per game.
– via [URL="https://www.eurohoops.net/en/national-teams/1368140/joel-embiid-was-granted-french-citizenship/"]EuroHoops.net[/URL]
With his newly-acquired French passport, [URL="https://www.eurohoops.net/en/national-teams/1368140/joel-embiid-was-granted-french-citizenship/"]the possibility of him joining the French national team for the upcoming Paris Olympics in 2024 is more than viable,[/URL] as there are no longer legal obstacles.
– via [URL="https://www.eurohoops.net/en/national-teams/1368140/joel-embiid-was-granted-french-citizenship/"]EuroHoops.net[/URL]
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Rudy, Joel and the 1st pick in next year's draft!
[QUOTE]I agree with this and think Snyder actually did this pretty well. I think the bigger problem was the FO's decisions kept UTA from having young players who had the potential to become valuable NBA players. Great development can only do so much if a person lacks a fundamental ability to play at an NBA-level. And there are definitely teams and coaches who are better at development (MIA and SAS probably top the list), but not being the best doesn't mean Snyder was bad. [/QUOTE]
Don't agree. They've had guys that could have helped. Many of them are still around so other teams obviosuly think they have some value. They beat Denver in the bubble if COTM plays Brantley, Tucker or Oni for just 5 minutes on Murray instead of Clarkson/Mitchell
[QUOTE]think jazz gambled too much with high picks they had. exum obviously the best example as he had never played against real competition. everyone creamed their pants with how successful he had been in what were basically youth leagues.. i always thought of that pick as limited reward and very high risk.
trey burke was always going to be an undersized nba guard who liked to shoot first. kanter i have mixed feelings about, because he actually developed a genuine nba offensive game, albeit one suited to 20 years earlier. trey lyles was a bench player for kentucky. even the big man from last year was and oddball pick. with gobert on your roster why in hell would you choose him with a first round pick? we got favors on a trade, and i just never felt like we used him correctly.
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they didn't work out Exum or Burke. I think Kanter actually could have fit better with Rudy because he showed 3 point ability early on. They could have had him playing the perimeter. D would have been an issue of course but Favors spotting up for 3 was a bad idea. Liked Lyles before they let him think he was Kobe. Kind of the same shit that happened with Hood. You take a big with your first because they had young guys developing at every other position. Center was the obvious pick. Rookies aren't going to play. You pick them so that this year you have Udoka, Nickel and Butler fighting for a cheap rotaion spot on a team that will be tanking by the end of the season
[QUOTE]Grayson Allen is actually a solid rotation piece as much as people don’t like him. He’s not like an all star or anything, but he’s what you would hope for in a mid to late first round pick
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but he had to go or he would have been playing 35 minutes a night
[QUOTE]
Yeah this isn't really fair to the Jazz or accurate. You can always look back and see who was drafted in all the picks after, but the draft is impossible to get right. Burks, Kanter, Hood, Allen have all started a lot of games in the NBA with the Jazz and/or after they left. Kanter being the 3rd pick makes it a little tougher, but look at the rest of that years top 10, there were a ton of busts worse than Kanter.[/QUOTE]
None are really starters though. Burks maybe?
[QUOTE]I agree with you . I only wanted a new coach.
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new coach and 6th man!
[QUOTE]We just needed a different coach to hold DM accountable for defense and an improved wing
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not all they needed but it was needed!
[QUOTE]I still am a believer that the failings were on the offensive side, The Jazz would go into an offensive funk game after game, teams would have 17-2 or worse runs on the Jazz often. Then they would panic and start chucking up 3's. The team sucked last year and probably the year before at working together to win as a team.[/QUOTE]
in this playoff it was. Maybe Dallas was that good at D? Jazz D was good enough to win the series as it was when Houston beat them because of poor offense
[QUOTE]Everyone keeps saying to bring in a star to pair with DM, being realistic who can they get?
What team wants to trade a young star player? (one without baggage)
Really would like to hear some trade suggestions that would be a good fit for DM and the Jazz.[/QUOTE]
exactly! Mitchell is on a max deal and he won't be an all-star without Gobert.
[QUOTE]OG Anunoby
Ingram
Caris Levert
Tobias Harris
TJ Warren
Mikal Bridges
Josh Richardson
Collins
Miles Bridges
Rui Hachimura
We should try to get one of the above using Conley and players/FRPs we acquired from MIN
We should keep Clarkson and Bogie
We need to get taller[/QUOTE]
shit show
[QUOTE]No wonder Ainge is in for a total rebuild, there's not much that can be done to get the Jazz better.
Too much is needed to get the Jazz going in the right direction and it's going to be a longer thing than getting a new "Batman" for Mitchell.
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that's what I see. I think Mitchell may get a chance to start the year with vets but by the trade deadline the fire sale will be over hopefully. Mitchell can be part of it or not. I think if someone like the Knicks is stupid enough to give Ainge what he wants he'll be gone regardless
[QUOTE]Jazz need four or five young athletic stars and it's going to take some time, enjoy the build![/QUOTE]
4 or 5? is that sll they need? :roll:
[QUOTE]Even if they win 0 games they still only have a 14% chance to get the #1 pick. But I guess the draft is supposed to be pretty loaded next year. Guarantee though at least one player in the top 5 will be a bust. Rebuilding is hard.[/QUOTE]
supposed to be deep. Get as many picks as you can in both rounds it sounds like
[QUOTE]If we got such great assets in the Rudy Gobert trade, why shouldn't we be able to find a second star? Maybe we could trade for Kevin Durant--or at least Kyrie Irving. Both players are available.[/QUOTE]
the problem is you have 1 guy on a max deal that I'm not convinced is an all-star without someone carrying him
[QUOTE]I think the best asset the Jazz got in the Rudy Gobert Trade was Jarred Vanderbilt. I just wish that Danny Ainge would have held out for Jaden McDaniels, as well.[/QUOTE]
if he ends up the best asset the Wolves butt raped Ainge
[QUOTE]I know Barrett is really young and looks like a great prospect but I'm not convinced he's a future all-NBA player. I could be completely wrong, but this is why I'm not excited about trade packages from NYK.
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can he be or is he better than Mitchell? I know he's cheaper! Just be glad Mitchell didn't get all NBA and have a super max deal!
[QUOTE]Just imagine Burks, Favors, Kanter, Gobert, Hayward, Exum and some combination of Giannis and Booker or both most on rookie contracts. That is what I am hoping is in Jazz future.[/QUOTE]
I'd hope for a lot more than that. Exum certainly is something I hope they never have again!
[QUOTE]I don't really agree that the reason the young players didn't develop under Corbin was because they didn't get playing time. I've talked about this elsewhere, but I'm not convinced that giving playing time to players means they'll develop, and often when young players can't get on the court it's generally because they don't have the ability to be useful NBA players, or they aren't being developed off the court. Corbin was definitely a terrible coach but I think most development occurs outside of games; or at least the initial stages of development take place off court and at some point players do need to play but probably not until they've demonstrated some degree of competence. Just as an extreme example, no amount of minutes played could make me a useful NBA player because I'm not good enough to actually benefit from the playing time. [/QUOTE]
Yep. Lots of ways to develop. Sloan played Hayward as a rookie. Sloan didn't play just any rookie like COTM with Duke players. Corbin made the playoffs with an inefficient black hole!
[QUOTE]As for Q, the examples I would point to were Exum and Burks. DL kept re-signing them even though they were getting DNPCD. [/QUOTE]
To me that's the difference between a great front office and one not so great. They know when to cut their losses. Everyone makes bad moves. It was obvious pretty early on that Exum wasn't an NBAer and the Wizard kept doubling down hoping the guy he picked over Smart and Randle would someday turn good! Then they end up with Clarkson on top of it and I'm still living that nightmare!
[QUOTE]Hood was getting a lot of playing time (2nd most on team) didn't play defense well and his FG efficient was bad, yet always started and always played. DL traded Hood. The point I am making is the guys that got playing time got playing time just because. Burks had a rebound rate only behind Rudy and had better FG% than Hood, and averaged like the most FT attempts per minute on the team for backcourt players. On paper, Burks was way better than Hood, but Burks got DNPCD and Hood started and got 32 minutes per game. No rational basketball fan would say Burks was not good enough to get 1 minute of playing time game after game. So, then the story was "maybe Burks has a bad attitude" which was disproved when he was traded. [/QUOTE]
I wouldn't say Burks was way better. He is now. Burks had a lot of injuries as did Hood. Neither was a starter. That was the problem with Hood. They made him think he was better than he was when he was really just a 6th man like Burks. Take Hood over Clarkson too!
[QUOTE]The point is that from Corbin to Q, playing time is not based on if you are better or worse than another player. Therefore, not playing does not mean players are not able to play. When Hood got hurt, Burks and DM were an awesome backcourt and the Jazz were blowing out teams. I would still argue that players develop by playing, just look at Rudy. Rudy was raw but the more time he got the more he developed. I'll agree it is not just playing time in a vacuum, but playing with other players as well.[/QUOTE]
He got better playing in the Gleague where he should have been all that year. People complained he should have been playing. He wasn't ready for the NBA physically and probably not confidence wise either. You can hurt a guy by playing him when he's not ready. Lose their confidence etc
[QUOTE]millsap was only 27 his last year on jazz, and had improved every year in a jazz uniform. actually think he was one to keep. why would you have traded him at 25? he was exactly the type of player jazz should have been looking for
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It wasn't so much that they let Millsap go it was that he left for 16 million for two years while Demarre got 2 or 4 million a year for 2. You keep those type of guys at that price. They never did realize what they had in Paul. He was better than Boozer. He was better than Al. He was better than Favors and Kanter. He was better than Hayward! He's the best player Rudy should have been playing with for years by far.
[QUOTE]Regarding Burks, I think his lack of playing time had more to do with injuries and the emergence of Hayward and Hood than anything else.[/QUOTE]
injuries played a part but it was obvious he wasn't a COTM guy. They tried to force a guy that was so good at getting to the hole and the line in to a spot up 3 point shooter. Even when he played the way COTM wanted he still didn't like him.
[QUOTE]Exum and Burke are even good examples that simply giving someone playing time is not a sufficient condition for someone to develop. Both were given minutes and neither ever really improved (Exum and injuries, but still).
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Burke has improved after degressing with the Jazz
[QUOTE]Gobert, DM, O'Neale, Ingles, Clarkson all flourished under Snyder. Obviously some players didn't, but many of those were out of the league shortly after leaving UTA or weren't that much better for other teams. [/QUOTE]
Pretty sure guys like Gobert are going to flourish anywhere. COTM starting O'Neale at the 4 and giving Ingles too big of a role were problems. Clarkson flourished! :roll: