Micheal Jordan Denial

What bothers me the most about MJ conversations, and we've all been part of them, is when he is called G.O.A.T. In my humble opinion, that from a realistic and humble perspective, there is absolutley no such thing as "the greatest of all time for anything. John Coltrane wasn't the greatest tenor man ever just like Richard Pryor wasn't the greatest stand-up comic ever. Saying there is a greatest of anything is like a father calling one of his children "favorite." One of his kids may excel at one thing, but each child has thier own respective unique quality. Certainly Jordan was a very accomplished player, and there's no doubt he earned his plave in the annals of NBA time. However, if we weren't around to see the 60's and just how relevant Oscar or Russell were to thier teams and there era, and how relevant there era was to them, then we can't say Jordan was better than them. You have to take into account the relvence of Jordan's era and vice versa. Part of his lore was what he did for the sport. He made the game more popular amongst white suburban youth, skyrocketed the shoe market and made the NBA a brand name. You can't say he's the greatest when you also have to take into account his postion. He may have been the best SG, but that doesn't make him the best player ever. Kobe is just as lethal a scorer today as MJ was back then. If you think about all the rule-changes etc. that it easier for him to score, then take tem away, you can obviously see that helped him. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just an opinion.

[QUOTE=BBallBeatwriter]What bothers me the most about MJ conversations, and we've all been part of them, is when he is called G.O.A.T. In my humble opinion, that from a realistic and humble perspective, there is absolutley no such thing as "the greatest of all time for anything. John Coltrane wasn't the greatest tenor man ever just like Richard Pryor wasn't the greatest stand-up comic ever. Saying there is a greatest of anything is like a father calling one of his children "favorite." One of his kids may excel at one thing, but each child has thier own respective unique quality. Certainly Jordan was a very accomplished player, and there's no doubt he earned his plave in the annals of NBA time. However, if we weren't around to see the 60's and just how relevant Oscar or Russell were to thier teams and there era, and how relevant there era was to them, then we can't say Jordan was better than them. You have to take into account the relvence of Jordan's era and vice versa. Part of his lore was what he did for the sport. He made the game more popular amongst white suburban youth, skyrocketed the shoe market and made the NBA a brand name. You can't say he's the greatest when you also have to take into account his postion. He may have been the best SG, but that doesn't make him the best player ever. [B]Kobe is just as lethal a scorer today as MJ was back then[/B]. If you think about all the rule-changes etc. that it easier for him to score, then take tem away, you can obviously see that helped him. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just an opinion.[/QUOTE]

This has already been discussed.
MJ averages 30 ppg in the season, playoffs and finals. No one is as good as him especially scoring. He has 10 scoring titles to show.

[QUOTE=Younggrease]the consensus among the majority of players in the nba and former players and coaches is that Kobe is the best in the world...But no one hear recognizes that...So it is ok to recognize them if you agree but if you dont agree those same people are idiots??[/QUOTE]



yes, the best player today does not necessarily mean the best player ever

"Unless they change the dimensions of the game, there will be a player far greater than me." -Michael Jordan, from [I]The Love of the Game, My Story[/I]

I believe this to be true, but as of now, he's unmatched in greatness as a basketball player.

I just have one question for Kobe supporters who say stuff like "Kobe is just as good, or better a scorer".

Why do you not take into account:

A. Efficiency, fg% and such? Kobe has never shot 50% for a season, while Jordan was a CAREER 50% shooter (yes even including the Washington years). He shot 53% the year he scored 35ppg.

B. The FACT that Kobe has NEVER faced a team like the Detroit Pistons or 90s Knicks teams. Teams that would PUNISH you for driving the lane. Go back and look at some of the footage from Jordan vs. those teams and then point out to me where Kobe's EVER been through anything like it?

C. PLAYOFFS vs. REGULAR SEASON. If you compare their scoring from the playoffs it isn't even CLOSE. Kobe has yet to show that he can be anywhere near the dominant scorer Jordan was in the post season. And as any knowledgeable basketball fan should know, it's a lot harder to score in the post season against comp like the 90s Knicks then it is to score against the awful Toronto Raptors in the regular season.

The playoffs are the time where the comp is harder, the pressure is greater and where real NBA legends are made. Jordan actually RAISED his scoring in the playoffs. Please show me examples of Kobe's scoring brilliance in the playoffs vs. Jordan's. You can't.

So given all of that, I don't get the "Kobe is as good a scorer as Jordan" stuff. It's really ignorant.

Here's a more direct quote from the book a mentioned before:

[QUOTE]Somewhere there is a little kid working to enhance what we've done. It may take awhile, but someone will come along who approaches the game the way I did. He won't skip steps. He won't be afraid. He will learn from my example, just as I learned from others. He will master the fundamentals. Maybe he will take off from the free-throw line and do a 360 in midair. Why not? No one thought they would see a 6-foot-9 point guard or a 7-foot-7 center. But here we are. There are now more 6-foot-10 perimeter players than at any time in history. Magic would have been a center 30 years ago. Evolution knows no bounds. Unless they change the height of the basket or otherwise alter the dimensions of the game, there will be a player much greater than me.[/QUOTE]

[QUOTE=BBallBeatwriter]What bothers me the most about MJ conversations, and we've all been part of them, is when he is called G.O.A.T. In my humble opinion, that from a realistic and humble perspective, there is absolutley no such thing as "the greatest of all time for anything. John Coltrane wasn't the greatest tenor man ever just like Richard Pryor wasn't the greatest stand-up comic ever.[B] Saying there is a greatest of anything is like a father calling one of his children "favorite." One of his kids may excel at one thing, but each child has thier own respective unique quality.[/B] Certainly Jordan was a very accomplished player, and there's no doubt he earned his plave in the annals of NBA time. However, if we weren't around to see the 60's and just how relevant Oscar or Russell were to thier teams and there era, and how relevant there era was to them, then we can't say Jordan was better than them. You have to take into account the relvence of Jordan's era and vice versa. Part of his lore was what he did for the sport. He made the game more popular amongst white suburban youth, skyrocketed the shoe market and made the NBA a brand name. You can't say he's the greatest when you also have to take into account his postion. He may have been the best SG, but that doesn't make him the best player ever. Kobe is just as lethal a scorer today as MJ was back then. If you think about all the rule-changes etc. that it easier for him to score, then take tem away, you can obviously see that helped him. Maybe I'm wrong, but it's just an opinion.[/QUOTE]

Sorry, man. That's not the same. Your kid is your fresh and blood. If you truely love your children, you have no favorite. Period. Trane and MJ are people who we watch for entertainment, and as big fans, we analyse. Huge difference. BTW, ever heard Bird on the tenor? Just picked one up, didn't warm up on it or anything, did one session with Miles...[I]crazy![/I]

MJ fans are so insecure :oldlol: It's quite amusing and pathetic at the same time.

Well, I give a sh*t about stats.

And I won

[QUOTE=dhenk]Well, I give a sh*t about stats.

And I won

[QUOTE]ESPN SportsCentury: Top 100 Athletes of the 20th Century

[B]# 1. Michael Jordan[/B]
# 2. Babe Ruth
# 3. Muhammad Ali
# 4. Jim Brown
# 5. Wayne Gretzky
# 6. Jesse Owens
# 7. Jim Thorpe
# 8. Willie Mays
# 9. Jack Nicklaus
# 10. Babe Didrikson
# 11. Joe Louis
# 12. Carl Lewis
# 13. Wilt Chamberlain
# 14. Hank Aaron
# 15. Jackie Robinson
# 16. Ted Williams
# 17. Magic Johnson
# 18. Bill Russell
# 19. Martina Navratilova
# 20. Ty Cobb
# 21. Gordie Howe
# 22. Joe DiMaggio
# 23. Jackie Joyner-Kersee
# 24. Sugar Ray Robinson
# 25. Joe Montana[/QUOTE]

Close thread.

^^up

[QUOTE=BIZARRO]Famous story about how Bird, Magic, and MJ all stayed up all night in Barcelona one night and they talked about about who's the greatest.

After going back and forth, Bird stopped the conversation and said, "Magic you were great, I was great, but MJ was the greatest." The way Bird put it, Magic and him conceded.


I'll try to find a link, but it's a pretty famous story.[/QUOTE]

At the 2:40 mark, someone gives notice of that story you're talking about.

[url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=nP-Rm2atzU0[/url]

[QUOTE=Z3120]At the 2:40 mark, someone gives notice of that story you're talking about.

[url]http://youtube.com/watch?v=nP-Rm2atzU0[/url][/QUOTE]



Thanks man. :)

I would also like to say, that although I have never been a big fan of Isiah as a guy, he is supremely complimentary to Mike in this video.

I think that shows something on his part. :applause:

^^^thanks for that video link!